Homebrew PCBs

I've noticed a lot of discussion of direct inkjet to PCB and I'm
wondering whether people have already determined that direct laser to
PCB wouldn't work (modifying available laser printers, not fabbing
plotters)?

Thanks!

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "sethkoster" <sethkoster@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 5:43 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Direct laser printer to PCB?


> I've noticed a lot of discussion of direct inkjet to PCB and I'm
> wondering whether people have already determined that direct laser to
> PCB wouldn't work (modifying available laser printers, not fabbing
> plotters)?

A related technique that was used many years ago for making prototype PCBs 
when I worked for Rank-Xerox involved a Xerox flat plate copying system. The 
toner image of the artwork on the selenium plate could be transferred 
directly to the copper surface, fused and then etched. It might be possible 
to do something like it with a laser printer.

Leon

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:43:45 +0200, sethkoster <sethkoster@...>  
wrote:

> I've noticed a lot of discussion of direct inkjet to PCB and I'm
> wondering whether people have already determined that direct laser to
> PCB wouldn't work (modifying available laser printers, not fabbing
> plotters)?
> Thanks!


Some have extensively contemplated it and determined that it is very  
difficult.

ST

Would putting a conductive item like a sheet of copper clad pcb into a
laser 'short out' the static charge, or even 'blow up' the printer?

I'm just thinking about the high voltages that must exist to cause the
toner to become electrostatic and the copper going through roller on
an earthed chassis.

In a message dated 7/22/2006 1:02:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
lez.briddon@... writes:

 
 
Would putting a conductive item like a sheet of copper clad pcb into  a
laser 'short out' the static charge, or even 'blow up' the  printer?

I'm just thinking about the high voltages that must exist to  cause the
toner to become electrostatic and the copper going through roller  on
an earthed chassis.





Correct!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Saturday 22 July 2006 11:01 am, Lez wrote:
> Would putting a conductive item like a sheet of copper clad pcb into a
> laser 'short out' the static charge, or even 'blow up' the printer?

no they don't seem to mind having copper clad run thru them all that much
it just doesn't seem to work very well

heres a test print I did awhile back
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/Toner_Direct_Print/LaserOnCopper.jpg 

thats a strip of copper foil tape on regular office paper after a trip thru 
an HP laserjet 1200 with normal print settings ,you might be able to tweak
the settings to get better results ,I didn't put much time into experimenting 
with it

and despite all the dire warnings of catastrophic damage the printer was 
unharmed and is still working perfectly to this day :)

Brian
-- 
"Nemo me impune lacesset"

Past test have shown that aluinum foil, espcially the Reynolds non stick
type can be printed in a laser printer.

The type of laser temperature and melting temperature of the toner has more
effect on the success rate.

Myc

On 7/22/06, JanRwl@... <JanRwl@...> wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 7/22/2006 1:02:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>
> lez.briddon@... <lez.briddon%40googlemail.com> writes:
>
> Would putting a conductive item like a sheet of copper clad pcb into a
> laser 'short out' the static charge, or even 'blow up' the printer?
>
> I'm just thinking about the high voltages that must exist to cause the
> toner to become electrostatic and the copper going through roller on
> an earthed chassis.
>
> Correct!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:

> Would putting a conductive item like a sheet of copper clad pcb into a
> laser 'short out' the static charge, or even 'blow up' the printer?
> 
shuld not be because the toner is 'statically bonded' to the drum and from
there it transfers by sticking to the carrier.
now, the transfer to a conductive surface off the statically charged drum may
pose some difficulty, but often works.
the problem I see, and am not willing to try, is that the stiff board may
scratch or damage the drum. that's the death of the printer.
using 'soft' foil on paper is likely to not risk the drum.



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.
>  the problem I see, and am not willing to try, is that the stiff board may
>  scratch or damage the drum. that's the death of the printer.
>  using 'soft' foil on paper is likely to not risk the drum.



Yes I should have read this before trying to force a sheet through the
flat path feed...........

Not enough clearence and it would not feed under drum, hitting
rotating drum, scratching a nice ring on it.

At least its only a 4l, I'l have to watch boot/yard sales for some
more toner cartridges. (cheap enough, usually a few £/$ as no one has
a use for em)


Lez

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 07:21:18 +0200, Herbert E. Plett <cachureos@...>  
wrote:

> nd from
> there it transfers by sticking to the carrier.


by _electrostatic sticking_!!
There's a pickup corona wire that charges the paper stronger than the drum  
to pick up the toner.
This means you will only get "by chance" transfer if you remove this  
charge. Which experimentally turns out to be maybe 50% on the metal 50% on  
the drum. Not enough to form a resist.

And that's not even talking about the edges of the PCB killing the drum.



The most reasonable i've heard of so far is a silicone roller that  
contacts the drum. This roller can be charged nicely, and on the
bottom of the roller a PCB passes which is heated to fusing temperature.  
This transfers the toner to the PCB.

Still way more complicated than an inkjet.

ST

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Direct laser printer to PCB?


> On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 07:21:18 +0200, Herbert E. Plett <cachureos@...>
> wrote:
>
>> nd from
>> there it transfers by sticking to the carrier.
>
>
> by _electrostatic sticking_!!
> There's a pickup corona wire that charges the paper stronger than the drum
> to pick up the toner.

I don't think it actually charges the paper, it attracts the toner from the 
photoreceptor depositing it on the paper.

Leon