Homebrew PCBs

I'm following the instructions I found at Tom Gootee's webpage
http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm and I am having trouble
getting traces to transfer from paper to board.   I am using a Brother
HL-2040 with the Staples "Photo Basic" gloss paper (SKU# 471861).  
After finding this group I've learned that many (most?) of you use a
laminator but all I am using is an iron set to highest, pressing
really hard for about 5 minutes then using only the tip and rubbing it
hard over the entire board.
   I'm using traces of .05 for power and ground, .025 for everything
else and .010 for really narrow spaces.   All the tracee sizes show
multiple breaks but it seems like the .025 traces have the most breaks.
   After several attempts I finally decided to try etching on a
practice board and I found that by the time the copper was gone many
of the toner traces had lifted.
   So does anyone have any ideas?   Thanks!

--- sethkoster <sethkoster@...> wrote:
> 
>    I'm following the instructions I found at Tom Gootee's webpage
> http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm and I am having trouble
> getting traces to transfer from paper to board.   I am using a Brother
> HL-2040 with the Staples "Photo Basic" gloss paper (SKU# 471861).  
> After finding this group I've learned that many (most?) of you use a
> laminator but all I am using is an iron set to highest, pressing
> really hard for about 5 minutes then using only the tip and rubbing it
> hard over the entire board.
>    I'm using traces of .05 for power and ground, .025 for everything
> else and .010 for really narrow spaces.   All the tracee sizes show
> multiple breaks but it seems like the .025 traces have the most breaks.
>    After several attempts I finally decided to try etching on a
> practice board and I found that by the time the copper was gone many
> of the toner traces had lifted.
>    So does anyone have any ideas?   Thanks!

at first thought seems to be a preparation fault, or handling contamination.

-make sure you don't touch the paper pre and post print.
-ensure the board is absolutely clean, shiny and slightly scratched before
ironing on
-once placed in the water, does the paper 'float off'? (at least, almost)
-do the 'lifted' traces remain on the paper?


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Herbert E. Plett"
<cachureos@...> wrote:

SNIP

> at first thought seems to be a preparation fault, or handling
contamination.
> 
> -make sure you don't touch the paper pre and post print.
> -ensure the board is absolutely clean, shiny and slightly scratched
before
> ironing on
> -once placed in the water, does the paper 'float off'? (at least,
almost)
> -do the 'lifted' traces remain on the paper?
> 

Well, I think it might have been contamination prior to my getting the
boards.   I bought them as leftovers from a local place I buy parts
from when I don't want to wait for delivery and they were extremely
beat up.   I scrubbed them well and got them pretty clean with acetone
but the first board I etched must have had something I couldn't get
off because it was peppered with little copper spots which absolutely
refused to come off.   I use latex gloves when handling the boards and
paper and only hold them by the edges, so I don't think I am
contaminating them.

I had somewhat better luck today using a fresh board from Radio Shack
and a different paper (Everyday HP Photo Paper, semi-gloss), but I
still had a couple spots where traces broke.   Both spots the trace
was broken when I seperated the paper from the board, but I did not
see them on the paper.   I left the board and paper in the hot water
bath long enough that when I lifted the board out the paper just slid
off and stayed in the water.   

Both traces were easy to repair by soldering an old resistor lead
across the break, but I'd really like to get good enough with this to
not have this problem.   I also notice that most of the traces have
lots of pinholes, enough that I use a continuity tester on all traces
just to be sure there are no gaps due to the pinholes.   I've looked
at several images in this group and on the web and it looks like much
better results than I am getting are possible, and at much finer trace
widths.

I tried using a glossy magazine page but it jammed in my printer and
the paper I listed above jams about every other time, what kinds of
paper do you find works well?   I'm using a Brother HL-2040.

Thanks!

--- sethkoster <sethkoster@...> wrote:
...
> I had somewhat better luck today using a fresh board from Radio Shack
> and a different paper (Everyday HP Photo Paper, semi-gloss), but I
> still had a couple spots where traces broke.   Both spots the trace
> was broken when I seperated the paper from the board, but I did not
> see them on the paper.   I left the board and paper in the hot water
> bath long enough that when I lifted the board out the paper just slid
> off and stayed in the water.   

the TT seems OK, doesn't have to be hot water, just throw the hot board into
cold or lukewarm water. definitely you have a bad board prep process.
make sure you scrub heavily with a pan cleaner (abrasive detergent) type until
your board has no traces of anything seen in bright light, no spots of any type
nor color and no deep scratches.

> I tried using a glossy magazine page but it jammed in my printer and
> the paper I listed above jams about every other time, what kinds of
> paper do you find works well?   I'm using a Brother HL-2040.

always use a 'base' sheet and stick only a piece of TT paper to it with paper
masking tape or laser labels. print first a draft on the base and then you know
exactly where to place the (1/4" oversized) transfer paper. the re-print with
your best settings.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Herbert E. Plett"
<cachureos@...> wrote:
SNIP
> > I tried using a glossy magazine page but it jammed in my printer and
> > the paper I listed above jams about every other time, what kinds of
> > paper do you find works well?   I'm using a Brother HL-2040.
> 
> always use a 'base' sheet and stick only a piece of TT paper to it
with paper
> masking tape or laser labels. print first a draft on the base and
then you know
> exactly where to place the (1/4" oversized) transfer paper. the
re-print with
> your best settings.
> 

So for the base sheet just use regular printer paper and then tape a
piece of the paper I'll do the actual transfer with onto it (be it
magazine, photo, whatever), and cut the piece of paper so it has 1/4"
extra hanging off of each side of the board, right?   

What do you think of using some sort of paint on top of the traces to
strengthen them and avoid pinholes?

Thanks very much for all the help!

Seth

--- sethkoster <sethkoster@...> wrote:
> What do you think of using some sort of paint on top of the traces to
> strengthen them and avoid pinholes?

paint what? paper? board? makes no sense to me.

pinholes can only be originated with a faulty print! 
first use white paper, so you can easily spot if any toner residue stays on the
paper after removal. there should only be the print left as dull lines on the
removed paper!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Herbert E. Plett"
<cachureos@...> wrote:
>
> --- sethkoster <sethkoster@...> wrote:
> > What do you think of using some sort of paint on top of the traces to
> > strengthen them and avoid pinholes?
> 
> paint what? paper? board? makes no sense to me.
> 
> pinholes can only be originated with a faulty print! 
> first use white paper, so you can easily spot if any toner residue
stays on the
> paper after removal. there should only be the print left as dull
lines on the
> removed paper!
> 

Sorry, I guess that was kind of cryptic.   I meant after the transfer
adding an etch resistant paint over the traces (on the board).   But
from what you're saying this would only address the symptom and not
the cause (symptom being pinholes and cause being faulty print), so
I'll just put my effort into examining my printing skills.

>pinholes can only be originated with a faulty print!

Pinholes in the toner traces on the copper can be due to faulty print 
or improper transfer. You need to see a closeup of an etched TT board 
in order to appreciate how imperfect the TT process is...The pits 
literally. However, it works on a good day and that's all most are 
concerned with. 

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Herbert E. Plett" 
<cachureos@...> wrote:
>

--- sethkoster <sethkoster@...> wrote:
...
> I'll just put my effort into examining my printing skills.

get a magnifying glass and check the print BEFORE tt, and then after the tt
make sure there are NO residues un the paper. use white paper.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

--- sethkoster <sethkoster@...> wrote:
...
> I'll just put my effort into examining my printing skills.

get a magnifying glass and check the print BEFORE tt, and then after the tt
make sure there are NO residues on the paper. use white paper.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com