Homebrew PCBs

I'm considering using this combination as an echant and I was wondering 
if anyone could give me some tips as to how to dispose of it safely 
when I'm through with it.  Also, some tips as to how to tell when it is 
all used up a I need to throw it away.  Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.

mark.mickelsen wrote:
> I'm considering using this combination as an echant and I was wondering 
> if anyone could give me some tips as to how to dispose of it safely 
> when I'm through with it.  Also, some tips as to how to tell when it is 
> all used up a I need to throw it away.  Any help would be appreciated.

Get a box of washing soda (sodium carbonate) from the grocery store. 
Slowly add it to the expended etchant, till it stops foaming.  This 
neutralizes the acid and precipitates all the copper out as copper 
carbonate mud.  Dump the neutralized liquid down the drain and put the 
mud in the trash.

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 04:32:44 +0200, John Popelish <jpopelish@...>  
wrote:

>> I'm considering using this combination as an echant and I was wondering
>> if anyone could give me some tips as to how to dispose of it safely
>> when I'm through with it.  Also, some tips as to how to tell when it is
>> all used up a I need to throw it away.  Any help would be appreciated.

> Get a box of washing soda (sodium carbonate) from the grocery store.
> Slowly add it to the expended etchant, till it stops foaming.  This
> neutralizes the acid and precipitates all the copper out as copper
> carbonate mud.  Dump the neutralized liquid down the drain and put the
> mud in the trash.

Also consider if you don't want to use the etchant to start a CuCl batch  
which can be regenerated forever.

ST

Here's a link to doing the CuCl method.

http://www.smallsolar.org/workshop/etchant/index.htm

Hugo
-- 
Kiam oni amas, oni fajras...

Note: Muriatic Acid is a very strong acid and will cause severe burns! Acid
burns destroy the tissue are very painful. Definitely use the gloves and eye
shield. Keep Baking Soda handy to neutralize any spills. If you get it on
yourself, flood, and I mean FLOOD, the area with water or apply a paste of
Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate), then FLOOD with water.

Muriatic Acid will eat holes in metal, clothing and you. The mist and spray
created during bubble etching is very dangerous. Use extreme caution.

I like the way the Muriatic Acid / H2O2 etches, but it must be used with
respect. The bad habits and sloppiness picked up while using FeCl4 must be
unlearned.

Myc

(former Industrial Chemist)


On 6/26/06, Hugo González Monteverde <hugonz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>    Here's a link to doing the CuCl method.
>
> http://www.smallsolar.org/workshop/etchant/index.htm
>
> Hugo
> --
> Kiam oni amas, oni fajras...
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Myc Holmes wrote:
> Note: Muriatic Acid is a very strong acid and will cause severe burns! Acid
> burns destroy the tissue are very painful. Definitely use the gloves and eye
> shield. Keep Baking Soda handy to neutralize any spills. If you get it on
> yourself, flood, and I mean FLOOD, the area with water or apply a paste of
> Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate), then FLOOD with water.
> 
> Muriatic Acid will eat holes in metal, clothing and you. The mist and spray
> created during bubble etching is very dangerous. Use extreme caution.
> 
> I like the way the Muriatic Acid / H2O2 etches, but it must be used with
> respect. The bad habits and sloppiness picked up while using FeCl4 must be
> unlearned.
> 
> Myc
> 
> (former Industrial Chemist)

HCl is tame stuff if not concentrated enough to be fuming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid

It stings on wounds like lemon juice or vinegar.

Russell Shaw wrote:

> Myc Holmes wrote:
> 
>>Note: Muriatic Acid is a very strong acid and will cause severe burns! Acid
>>burns destroy the tissue are very painful. Definitely use the gloves and eye
>>shield. Keep Baking Soda handy to neutralize any spills. If you get it on
>>yourself, flood, and I mean FLOOD, the area with water or apply a paste of
>>Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate), then FLOOD with water.
>>
>>Muriatic Acid will eat holes in metal, clothing and you. The mist and spray
>>created during bubble etching is very dangerous. Use extreme caution.
>>
>>I like the way the Muriatic Acid / H2O2 etches, but it must be used with
>>respect. The bad habits and sloppiness picked up while using FeCl4 must be
>>unlearned.
>>
>>Myc
>>
>>(former Industrial Chemist)
> 
> 
> HCl is tame stuff if not concentrated enough to be fuming.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid
> 
> It stings on wounds like lemon juice or vinegar.
> 

I know a guy who'd dunk his whole hand almost to the elbow when 
retrieving a PCB from his heated ammonium persulfate bubble etcher.

Russell,

They say a little knowlegde is dangerous. Your comment is a prime example. I
spent 20+ years using HCL by the 55 gallon drum in an industrial setting.
Safe handling procedures were strictly followed.

Of course, there are defintely stronger acids than HCl, but all must be used
with safety in mind.

37% HCl is nothing to fool around with. There are some beginners here who
will listen to you and make that mistake. That's their choice and they can
remove themselves from the gene pool.

As L. Long said:
"Stupidity is a capital offense"

Myc

Note:  Adam, Ammonium Persulfate is not the same as Muriatic Acid (HC). I
rest my case about a little bit of knowlegde...



On 6/27/06, Russell Shaw <rjshaw@...> wrote:
>
>    Myc Holmes wrote:
> > Note: Muriatic Acid is a very strong acid and will cause severe burns!
> Acid
> > burns destroy the tissue are very painful. Definitely use the gloves and
> eye
> > shield. Keep Baking Soda handy to neutralize any spills. If you get it
> on
> > yourself, flood, and I mean FLOOD, the area with water or apply a paste
> of
> > Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate), then FLOOD with water.
> >
> > Muriatic Acid will eat holes in metal, clothing and you. The mist and
> spray
> > created during bubble etching is very dangerous. Use extreme caution.
> >
> > I like the way the Muriatic Acid / H2O2 etches, but it must be used with
> > respect. The bad habits and sloppiness picked up while using FeCl4 must
> be
> > unlearned.
> >
> > Myc
> >
> > (former Industrial Chemist)
>
> HCl is tame stuff if not concentrated enough to be fuming.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid
>
> It stings on wounds like lemon juice or vinegar.
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Myc Holmes wrote:
> On 6/27/06, Russell Shaw <rjshaw@...> wrote:
>>   Myc Holmes wrote:
>>
>>Note: Muriatic Acid is a very strong acid and will cause severe burns!
>>Acid burns destroy the tissue are very painful. Definitely use the gloves and
>>eye shield. Keep Baking Soda handy to neutralize any spills. If you get it
>>on yourself, flood, and I mean FLOOD, the area with water or apply a paste
>>of Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate), then FLOOD with water.
>>Muriatic Acid will eat holes in metal, clothing and you. The mist and
>>spray created during bubble etching is very dangerous. Use extreme caution.
>>I like the way the Muriatic Acid / H2O2 etches, but it must be used with
>>respect. The bad habits and sloppiness picked up while using FeCl4 must
>>be unlearned.
>>Myc
>>
>>(former Industrial Chemist)
>>
>>HCl is tame stuff if not concentrated enough to be fuming.
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid
>>
>>It stings on wounds like lemon juice or vinegar.

 > Russell,
 >
 > They say a little knowlegde is dangerous. Your comment is a prime example. I
 > spent 20+ years using HCL by the 55 gallon drum in an industrial setting.
 > Safe handling procedures were strictly followed.

The main problem there is large-scale spillage and fume generation.

 > Of course, there are defintely stronger acids than HCl, but all must be used
 > with safety in mind.
 >
 > 37% HCl is nothing to fool around with. There are some beginners here who
 > will listen to you and make that mistake. That's their choice and they can
 > remove themselves from the gene pool.

Yes, but i said "not concentrated enough to be fuming". NewBs downfall is lack
of comprehension and research. Other dilute acids are still very hazardous even
when non-fuming (like hydroflouric acid).

The HCl you can buy from the hardware shop wouldn't be sold there if it was overly
bad, but it fumes and should be diluted to 5:1 or more before exposure (i've used a
lot of it for de-rusting). Getting dilute stuff in your eyes or a wound would be
painful, so *adequate* precautions are advisable.

 > As L. Long said:
 > "Stupidity is a capital offense"
 > Myc
 >
 > Note:  Adam, Ammonium Persulfate is not the same as Muriatic Acid (HC). I
 > rest my case about a little bit of knowlegde...

--- "mark.mickelsen" <mark.mickelsen@...>
wrote:

> I'm considering using this combination as an echant
> and I was wondering 
> if anyone could give me some tips as to how to
> dispose of it safely 
> when I'm through with it.  Also, some tips as to how
> to tell when it is 
> all used up a I need to throw it away.  Any help
> would be appreciated.
> Thanks.
> 
>

Save it and use it as a starter for a CuCl2 etch. Add
a few drops of H2O2 for every use and keep it in an
airtight container as long as there's excess acid in
it. It will become a bit greener every time you use
it. Once it's a deep green start maintaining it as
CuCl2.
If at some point it seems too slow and dilute
evaporate it in a shallow tray in the sun for a couple
of days, that's what I did and it worked a treat. If
you don't do many boards just feed it any old scrap
copper. It is a bit of a job getting it started this
way but once you have the hang of it you won't regret
it.

More links:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/index.html
http://www.pacificsun.ca/~robert/pcb/cucl.htm
http://www.pcbfab.com/iepart4.html

- YD.

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>I know a guy who'd dunk his whole hand almost to the elbow when
>retrieving a PCB from his heated ammonium persulfate bubble etcher.

Just started high school chemistry at around 14 years old....Had this 
fungus looking mark about the size of quarter on my arm that none of 
the doctor prescribed ointments could get rid of....Decided to steal 
some HCL from the chemistry lab one day and dabbed some on the spot 
that night....It started burning like hell and large pink craters 
started forming on my skin....Rushed to the bathroom and flooded it 
with water....Well, the good news is that the fungus went away for good 
and the bad news is that I have the scars to this very day.

That episode is in the top five of the dumbest things I ever did as a 
kid.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell <a_seychell@...> 
wrote:
>

derekhawkins wrote:
> 
> Just started high school chemistry at around 14 years old....Had this 
> fungus looking mark about the size of quarter on my arm that none of 
> the doctor prescribed ointments could get rid of....Decided to steal 
> some HCL from the chemistry lab one day and dabbed some on the spot 
> that night....It started burning like hell and large pink craters 
> started forming on my skin....Rushed to the bathroom and flooded it 
> with water....Well, the good news is that the fungus went away for good 
> and the bad news is that I have the scars to this very day.
> 
> That episode is in the top five of the dumbest things I ever did as a 
> kid.
> 

Ahhhh, nothing like good old 18th century medication :)

derekhawkins wrote:
>>I know a guy who'd dunk his whole hand almost to the elbow when
>>retrieving a PCB from his heated ammonium persulfate bubble etcher.
> 
> 
> Just started high school chemistry at around 14 years old....Had this 
> fungus looking mark about the size of quarter on my arm that none of 
> the doctor prescribed ointments could get rid of....Decided to steal 
> some HCL from the chemistry lab one day and dabbed some on the spot 
> that night....It started burning like hell and large pink craters 
> started forming on my skin....Rushed to the bathroom and flooded it 
> with water....Well, the good news is that the fungus went away for good 
> and the bad news is that I have the scars to this very day.
> 
> That episode is in the top five of the dumbest things I ever did as a 
> kid.

I got three darkish moles cut out by the doctor, and the resulting 10mm
wide wounds stitched up. The skin stretches over time so there's little
if any scarring.