Homebrew PCBs

Hi guys, sorry that i have not kept up to date with my toner transfer 
testing but i believe that i have found a great method that seems to 
work for me quite well.
I had been attempting transfers using hp matte and glosy paper but 
the toner would not stick to the glossy paper through the printer so 
it was a good job that i used a backing sheet of normal paper to pick 
up any mess stuck on the fuser. Toner stuck to the matte paper but a 
white crusty substance would be transfered onto the copper whenever i 
ironed the paper onto the copper. I think this was possily clay from 
the paper coating.
Well, I recently bought a cheapo laminator and disassembled it to see 
what needed to be done for pcb use. Basically, the pcb and paper 
would fit through the pair of silicone coated rollers with them 
bending to take the thickness but the flexibility of the silicone 
ensured that complete contact was still made. The motor was useless 
plastic-geared hunk-o-junk and the elements were not safe so i 
stripped them out and currently use a variable temp hot air gun and 
manually feed the laminator and worked very well, much better than i 
could achieve with the iron.
I just needed to sort out a decent paper, I was going to buy some 
pressnpeel when i fuond a magazine that was about to be chucked away 
and i thought why not...
Well, I printed out a test circuit but some toner was literally 
hanging off the page and the fuser had one or two 'loop' images from 
excess toner, failiure until i remembered that the printer was set to 
darkest '5' and transparencies, so i set these to back to normal and 
tried another sheet...success, printout great...then, being lazy, i 
thought about how can i test the transfer properties without having 
to clean another board...so i scratched at the toner with my 
fingernail. It released quite easily and it removed the ink from 
ontop of the magazine paper but did not tear the paper..great i 
thought. Time for a proper test...
Printed out another sample, used my laminator and heat gun and 
attempted to transfer the toner...it worked very well. I could lift 
the paper from the board leaving 90% of the toner behind without 
soaking and with soaking, all of the toner remained on the copper.
The paper works so well that the sheet ends up having a nice paper-
white image left where the toner was printed onto the magazine page.
I suppose what i am trying to say (if this email wasn't long enough 
already) is that if you can cleanly scratch the toner from the paper 
and it removes only the paper coating *under* the toner then chances 
are it will work for toner transfer.
The magazine paper worked so well that i ran into problems of the 
toner actually spreading out under pressure for the first time, 
indicating either too much pressure from the laminator or too mch 
toner on the paper...

Anyway, up to this point, i have to thank all you guys for talking 
about your different toner transfer techniques for giving me 
inspiration on what to try next...hopefully my magazine publishers 
won't change their paper supplies;-)

PK

Nice!  What laser printer did you use?

Cheers,
Ted

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "onenastyviper"
<oneNastyViper@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys, sorry that i have not kept up to date with my toner transfer 
> testing but i believe that i have found a great method that seems to 
> work for me quite well.
---snip---
> Well, I recently bought a cheapo laminator and disassembled it to see 
> what needed to be done for pcb use. 
---snip---

> I just needed to sort out a decent paper, I was going to buy some 
> pressnpeel when i fuond a magazine that was about to be chucked away 
> and i thought why not...
> Well, I printed out a test circuit but some toner was literally 
> hanging off the page and the fuser had one or two 'loop' images from 
> excess toner, failiure until i remembered that the printer was set to 
> darkest '5' and transparencies, so i set these to back to normal and 
> tried another sheet...success, printout great...then, being lazy, i 
> thought about how can i test the transfer properties without having 
> to clean another board...so i scratched at the toner with my 
> fingernail. It released quite easily and it removed the ink from 
> ontop of the magazine paper but did not tear the paper..great i 
> thought. Time for a proper test...
> Printed out another sample, used my laminator and heat gun and 
> attempted to transfer the toner...it worked very well. I could lift 
> the paper from the board leaving 90% of the toner behind without 
> soaking and with soaking, all of the toner remained on the copper.
> The paper works so well that the sheet ends up having a nice paper-
> white image left where the toner was printed onto the magazine page.
> I suppose what i am trying to say (if this email wasn't long enough 
> already) is that if you can cleanly scratch the toner from the paper 
> and it removes only the paper coating *under* the toner then chances 
> are it will work for toner transfer.
---snip---

Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:12 pm (PDT), kilocycles wrote:
>Nice!  What laser printer did you use?
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "onenastyviper" wrote:
> > [snip] I just needed to sort out a decent paper, I was going to buy some
> > pressnpeel when i fuond a magazine that was about to be chucked away

And, probably more important, what magazine did you use?


Regards, LenW

Hi, I used a new HP LaserJet 1022 I bought from staples in the UK

PK

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kilocycles" <kilocycles@...> 
wrote:

>
> Nice!  What laser printer did you use?
> 
> Cheers,
> Ted
>

Missed this message the first time...oh well;-)

The magazine I used was from littlewoods catelogue shop that they 
send to my Mum. She finished reading it and was about to throw it out 
so I thought why not...and it worked.
It is difficult to describe the actual consistency but I will try:

The paper seems similar in consistence to the type used in the Argos 
as well...in fact, I will probably try a sample of that later as well.
The paper is very thin and the paper and print tend to be mildly 
glossy. It becomes soggy and tears easily when even slightly damp.
As I said sometime ago in a previous post, the only reason I 
attempted a transfer with this paper was that I could remove printed 
toner from the paper simply by scratching it off with a fingernail. 
This removed toner and the print underneath but the paper itself 
remained intact. After heating the paper onto the board using a 
laminator, I could literally pull the paper off by hand, this would 
remove only a few traces or parts of traces. Soaking allowed the 
paper to be completly removed leaving the traces behind.
I am at the stage where I will be performing more tests to see how 
far I can push this paper in terms of trace size and number. Ideally, 
I hope to be able to handle QFP surface mount devices but we'll see 
what happens...

Hope this helps?

PK


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Len Warner <yahoo@...> wrote:
>
> Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:12 pm (PDT), kilocycles wrote:
> >Nice!  What laser printer did you use?
> >
> >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "onenastyviper" wrote:
> > > [snip] I just needed to sort out a decent paper, I was going to 
buy some
> > > pressnpeel when i fuond a magazine that was about to be chucked 
away

> 
> And, probably more important, what magazine did you use?
> 
> 
> Regards, LenW
>

>>> onenastyviper wrote:
>>> [snip] I just needed to sort out a decent
>>> paper, I was going to buy some pressnpeel
>>> when i fuond a magazine that was about to
>>> be chucked away

>> kilocycles wrote:
>> Nice!  What laser printer did you use?

> LenW wrote:
> And, probably more important, what magazine
> did you use?

I can't speak for one nasty viper - However
I got very good early results with the glossy
pages from and australian penthouse magazine.

I beleive the "hot content" of the magazine
might help with the transfer.  But others have
reported good results with things as mundane
as time magazine :)

most magazines or catalogs with glossy paper will do

--- Len Warner <yahoo@...> wrote:
> > > [snip] I just needed to sort out a decent paper, I was going to buy some
> > > pressnpeel when i fuond a magazine that was about to be chucked away
> 
> And, probably more important, what magazine did you use?


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Hi guys, just to let you know, made another attempt using this magazine 
paper. I did a very quick circuit using dip soic and qfp packages 
connected some pins together and randomly routed them using eagle so it 
would only do the top layer. The result is amazing.
Take a look for yourselves, in the photo section under "onenastyvipers 
emporium". the amazing thing is that the printer was set on normal 
paper settings (possibly even on economy but i can't remember)
I did not etch it as it is only proof of concept but i have inspected 
it under a mini-microscope and there are only a few defects none 
completely damaging traces more like little chunks from the edges.
Personnally i am pretty impressed...how about you guys??

PK

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De la part de onenastyviper
> Envoyé : juin 13 2006 14:33
> À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Objet : [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner Transfer Success
> 
> 
> Hi guys, just to let you know, made another attempt using 
> this magazine 
> paper. .... Personnally i am pretty impressed...how about you guys??
> 
> PK


So am I.  I've been using the Pulsar paper until now, but their recent
switch to an improved version leaves much to be desired.  The advantages of
using the Pulsar paper are now practically all gone; the last remaining
advantage is how easily the paper slips off the PCB when dipped in water.
As for the rest of the process, it's just about the same as using ordinary
photo paper, which costs TONS less.

I'm pretty sure I still have my old Penthouse and Playboy collection.
Somehow I doubt the wife will be disappointed in seeing me start tearing at
them.  I have a few PCBs that are unfinished; I will most likely remove the
toner and test using magazine paper.

Robert
:)

Hello PK,

Are you taking a page from a magazine and then printing the circuit 
on the page?  Yes, realize the page has to be fully covered with a 
magazine ink.  Still it is impressive if I understand what you did.

Sorry to jump in late, but been away and when came back saw you and 
others were already down this path.  Did strike me as something I 
wanted to try until saw you impressive photos.

Thanks for sharing the info and the pictures.

At 02:32 PM 6/13/2006, you wrote:
>Hi guys, just to let you know, made another attempt using this magazine
>paper. I did a very quick circuit using dip soic and qfp packages
>connected some pins together and randomly routed them using eagle so it
>would only do the top layer. The result is amazing.
>Take a look for yourselves, in the photo section under "onenastyvipers
>emporium". the amazing thing is that the printer was set on normal
>paper settings (possibly even on economy but i can't remember)
>I did not etch it as it is only proof of concept but i have inspected
>it under a mini-microscope and there are only a few defects none
>completely damaging traces more like little chunks from the edges.
>Personnally i am pretty impressed...how about you guys??
>
>PK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

         Mike Sims
          

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's strange, I was ready to buy press n peel blue for £15 here in 
the UK. My only worry was my printer, I first but the magazine paper 
through with the printer set on maximum dark and transparency which 
dumps to most toner on the page. When i printed a circuit, there was 
too much toner and it was peeling off in fine threads like hot glue. 
It was a good job that i used a backing sheet of normal paper which 
caught the excess and cleaned the fuser as it passed through.

This last attempt I made used the printer on normal and only edges of 
the traces had slight pitting and fingernail scratching on the copper 
only removed small parts of the toner as one would expect. 
Another magazine came for my mum so i have another load of pages for 
circuits etc.

The only part that is annoying is having to clean the toner off and 
scrubbing the copper clean...some mention acetone, is it really the 
best thing for removing toner and cleaning the copper??
I find that IPA does work but it needs a bit of scrubbing...

PK

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Robert Hedan <robert.hedan@...> 
wrote:

> So am I.  I've been using the Pulsar paper until now, but their 
recent
> switch to an improved version leaves much to be desired.  The 
advantages of
> using the Pulsar paper are now practically all gone; the last 
remaining
> advantage is how easily the paper slips off the PCB when dipped in 
water.
> As for the rest of the process, it's just about the same as using 
ordinary
> photo paper, which costs TONS less.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I still have my old Penthouse and Playboy 
collection.
> Somehow I doubt the wife will be disappointed in seeing me start 
tearing at
> them.  I have a few PCBs that are unfinished; I will most likely 
remove the

> toner and test using magazine paper.
> 
> Robert
> :)
>

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De la part de onenastyviper
> Envoyé : juin 13 2006 17:46
> À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Objet : Re: RE : [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner Transfer Success
> 
> 
...
> 
> The only part that is annoying is having to clean the toner off and 
> scrubbing the copper clean...some mention acetone, is it really the 
> best thing for removing toner and cleaning the copper??
> I find that IPA does work but it needs a bit of scrubbing...
> 
> PK


My cleaning cycle:

- XXXX steel wool to remove oxidation.
- acetone to remove any finger grease from handling in step 1.
- 99.9% isopropyl alcohol to remove acetone residue.
- wipe dry to remove residue from IPA.

Acetone will remove toner extremely well.

Robert
:)

On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 23:59:50 +0200, Robert Hedan  
<robert.hedan@...> wrote:

>
>> The only part that is annoying is having to clean the toner off and
>> scrubbing the copper clean...some mention acetone, is it really the
>> best thing for removing toner and cleaning the copper??
>> I find that IPA does work but it needs a bit of scrubbing...
>>
>> PK


A quick and easy way is to scrape it off with a hard edge like a steel  
scraper, the back of a knife, or even another board (but those dull  
quickly).

If there are any tiny specs left acetone gets them.

No this won't damage even the finest trace if you don't dig in with a  
corner.

ST

Thanx, I'll give these suggestions a try...

PK


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> A quick and easy way is to scrape it off with a hard edge like a 
steel  
> scraper, the back of a knife, or even another board (but those 
dull  
> quickly).
> 
> If there are any tiny specs left acetone gets them.
> 
> No this won't damage even the finest trace if you don't dig in with 
a  

> corner.
> 
> ST
>

Hi, I basically cut a page out from the magazine big enough for 
printing the circuit. I do this by printing it on a normal sheet of 
white paper, printing in the centre of the page helps greatly becuase 
you can cut th magazine paper to size and tape it already knowing where 
it is going to be printed.
As for the magazine page being coated with ink, I am not really sure if 
what is printed is affecting the transfer ability, i.e. the original 
magazine printer ink. I just used random pages.
If you do have some magazine paper to test, print out some sort of 
pattern and attempt to scratch the toner off the page. If it comes off 
cleanly and does not affect the underlying paper too much then chances 
are it will work for toner transfer (I may have said this somewhere 
else but forgot). All I can say is that the magazine paper is very 
similar to that of the Argos catalogue available here in the UK (if 
that helps at all?)

PK

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mike <k4gmh@...> wrote:

>
> Hello PK,
> 
> Are you taking a page from a magazine and then printing the circuit 
> on the page?  Yes, realize the page has to be fully covered with a 
> magazine ink.  Still it is impressive if I understand what you did.
> 
> Sorry to jump in late, but been away and when came back saw you and 
> others were already down this path.  Did strike me as something I 
> wanted to try until saw you impressive photos.
> 
> Thanks for sharing the info and the pictures.
>