Homebrew_PCBs

Hi,
I needed to make a pcb. I hadn't used the Stylus 460 for atleast 6 months.
After a couple of nozzle cleans, the epson test print showed one black line
missing. A half dozen more cleans wouldn't fix it. So i put in an old black
cartridge after filling it with metholated spirits with a syringe. I did
dozens of cleans until the cartridge was empty, but it was still blocked.
I refilled the cartridge with "Hardworking Nifti" spray cleaner detergent,
and did 20 more nozzle cleans. Now all nozzles work.

In linux, i just enter "escputil -c" 50 times (using the Bash shell repeat
feature) and leave the printer to do 50 nozzle cleans. When i come back, i
just enter "escputil -n" to do a nozzle check.

On Wed, 31 May 2006 15:07:55 +0200, Russell Shaw <rjshaw@...>
wrote:

> Hi,
> I needed to make a pcb. I hadn't used the Stylus 460 for atleast 6
> months.
> After a couple of nozzle cleans, the epson test print showed one black
> line
> missing. A half dozen more cleans wouldn't fix it. So i put in an old
> black
> cartridge after filling it with metholated spirits with a syringe. I did
> dozens of cleans until the cartridge was empty, but it was still blocked.
> I refilled the cartridge with "Hardworking Nifti" spray cleaner
> detergent,
> and did 20 more nozzle cleans. Now all nozzles work.
> In linux, i just enter "escputil -c" 50 times (using the Bash shell
> repeat
> feature) and leave the printer to do 50 nozzle cleans. When i come back,
> i
> just enter "escputil -n" to do a nozzle check.

Experience (of others, not me) has shown that a high number of head
cleaning cycles rarely solves such a problem. If it isn't gone after 2 or
3 cycles the other 47 are unlikely to clear it. In such cases saturate the
parking pad with steve's cleaning mix and drive the head onto it manually
and let it sit. has cleaned every printer i tried it with right up.

ST

Hi,

I have been lurking on this site for a while now, and thought I might throw
in a few of my experiences.

I used to be a printer/proofer engineer and worked on many similar machines
if not a bit larger than your acerage home machine.

All of the DOD style printer I worked with were made by the company that
also manufacture Epson print heads.

The way that has always worked for me was to get a good look at the nozzles
and use either a lint free cloth soaked in Isopropyl alcohol and just press
it gently against the underside of the head. This almost always worked. It
may take a little time but will get there.

The other way was to use a cotton bud dipped in isopropyl alcohol and clean
the nozzles. Then wipe the head with a lint free cloth to get rid of all
the bits of cotton.

Running cleaning cycles is about a much use as shouting at it if you have
some subborn nozzles. When the head is clamped into the cleaning station
then it is sucking on all nozzles at the same time. If one is blocked and
the others are clear all it will do is suck the ink from the clean nozzle!

Isopropyl alcohol is a standard solvent available from most places. In the
UK we used to by it from RS Components but I think if you have a chat with a
chemist they can get it for you. It is, if memory serves me correctly, very
similar chemically to the solvent used in epson inks. (Which is why we used
it!)

Any way, enough of me. Sorry if I have been teaching any one to 'suck eggs'
I just thought I might help out a little.

Kind regards.

Andy

On 31/05/06, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 31 May 2006 15:07:55 +0200, Russell Shaw <rjshaw@...>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I needed to make a pcb. I hadn't used the Stylus 460 for atleast 6
> > months.
> > After a couple of nozzle cleans, the epson test print showed one black
> > line
> > missing. A half dozen more cleans wouldn't fix it. So i put in an old
> > black
> > cartridge after filling it with metholated spirits with a syringe. I did
> > dozens of cleans until the cartridge was empty, but it was still
> blocked.
> > I refilled the cartridge with "Hardworking Nifti" spray cleaner
> > detergent,
> > and did 20 more nozzle cleans. Now all nozzles work.
> > In linux, i just enter "escputil -c" 50 times (using the Bash shell
> > repeat
> > feature) and leave the printer to do 50 nozzle cleans. When i come back,
> > i
> > just enter "escputil -n" to do a nozzle check.
>
>
> Experience (of others, not me) has shown that a high number of head
> cleaning cycles rarely solves such a problem. If it isn't gone after 2 or
> 3 cycles the other 47 are unlikely to clear it. In such cases saturate the
> parking pad with steve's cleaning mix and drive the head onto it manually
> and let it sit. has cleaned every printer i tried it with right up.
>
> ST
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Russell Shaw <rjshaw@...> wrote:

>
> Hi,
> I needed to make a pcb. I hadn't used the Stylus 460 for atleast 6

months.

> After a couple of nozzle cleans, the epson test print showed one

black line

> missing. A half dozen more cleans wouldn't fix it. So i put in an

old black

> cartridge after filling it with metholated spirits with a syringe. I did
> dozens of cleans until the cartridge was empty, but it was still

blocked.

> I refilled the cartridge with "Hardworking Nifti" spray cleaner

detergent,

> and did 20 more nozzle cleans. Now all nozzles work.

What are "metholated spirits"?

http://www.polyphoto.com/tutorials/PrintHeadCleaning/

> In linux, i just enter "escputil -c" 50 times (using the Bash shell

repeat

> feature) and leave the printer to do 50 nozzle cleans. When i come

back, i

> just enter "escputil -n" to do a nozzle check.

I've been told repeatedly by Epson techs that it is bad to do more
than 3 head cleanings in a row without printing -something- even just
a nozzle check. Supposedly it keeps increasing in "intensity" and is
at risk of damaging the head.

In any case, you are wasting loads of ink doing that. See my link above.

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Thornber"
<andrew.thornber@...> wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I have been lurking on this site for a while now, and thought I

might throw

> in a few of my experiences.
>
> I used to be a printer/proofer engineer and worked on many similar

machines

> if not a bit larger than your acerage home machine.
>
> All of the DOD style printer I worked with were made by the company that
> also manufacture Epson print heads.

What is "DOD style"?

> The way that has always worked for me was to get a good look at the

nozzles

> and use either a lint free cloth soaked in Isopropyl alcohol and

just press

> it gently against the underside of the head. This almost always

worked. It

> may take a little time but will get there.

I found that isopropyl did not dissolve all the ink. See my pages for
a mixture including ammonia that seems to cut even very dried ink:
http://www.polyphoto.com/tutorials/PrintHeadCleaning/

> The other way was to use a cotton bud dipped in isopropyl alcohol

and clean

> the nozzles. Then wipe the head with a lint free cloth to get rid

of all

> the bits of cotton.

I try to keep cotton as far away from the heads as possible, as you
point out you must take special care to remove all left-over fibers.
Any little bits left on the head or park pad cause recurring clogs and
deflected nozzles.

> Running cleaning cycles is about a much use as shouting at it if you

have

> some subborn nozzles. When the head is clamped into the cleaning

station

> then it is sucking on all nozzles at the same time. If one is

blocked and

> the others are clear all it will do is suck the ink from the clean

nozzle!

Yes! Which is why I recommend the procedure above, and patience, lots
of patience.

> Isopropyl alcohol is a standard solvent available from most places.

In the

> UK we used to by it from RS Components but I think if you have a

chat with a

> chemist they can get it for you. It is, if memory serves me

correctly, very

> similar chemically to the solvent used in epson inks. (Which is why

we used

> it!)

I think some variety of alcohol is used in Epson inks, possibly
isopropyl. As are some glycols. I'm told that ammonia works so well at
dissolving the ink because rather than just dissolving it, it
chemically tears it apart. Not very scientific. I just know it really
works well!

The cleaner used by Epson, also sold by some on eBay and at
fixyourownprinter.com is a surfactant. Very gentle, but that's not
necessarily a good thing with a very dried clog. For those who don't
know, a surfactant is a wetting agent. It just kind of facilitates the
water getting the surface (or ink clog) wet.

> Any way, enough of me. Sorry if I have been teaching any one to

'suck eggs'

> I just thought I might help out a little.

Better too much information than too little!

Steve Greenfield

On Wed, 31 May 2006 18:06:52 +0200, Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:

>
> What is "DOD style"?

drop on demand?

ST

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

>
> On Wed, 31 May 2006 18:06:52 +0200, Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > What is "DOD style"?
>
>
> drop on demand?

Oh. I guess all desktop inkjets now are Drop On Demand. Maybe not all
wide format printers are DOD.

Steve Greenfield

On Wed, 31 May 2006 20:32:32 +0200, Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:

> Oh. I guess all desktop inkjets now are Drop On Demand. Maybe not all
> wide format printers are DOD.
> Steve Greenfield

I don't know what that means really, but i've heard it mentioned with
printers and it seemed fitting.

ST

> What are "metholated spirits"?

He probably meant methylated spirits which would be the British
equivalent of denatured alcohol usually with a touch of methaline blue
giving it a blue color. I recall seeing it used as a boy to fuel (along
with kerosene perhaps) something called Tilly Lamps.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alienrelics@...> wrote:
>

> > Steve wrote:
> > Oh. I guess all desktop inkjets now are Drop
> > On Demand. Maybe not all wide format printers
> > are DOD.

> ST wrote:
> I don't know what that means really, but i've
> heard it mentioned with printers and it seemed
> fitting.

Drop On Demand is the type of modern injket
printer that can fire drops of ink at any time
it likes. They mainly use thermal inkjet (Canon,
HP ect) which has a little chamber with a heater
in it that boils a tiny amount of ink. Epson
use a pezio element in there little chamber that
squeezes the ink out without heating it.

The electronics can fire (heat or squeeze) out
a drop when it is needed/demanded - hence drop
on demand.

In archaic inkjet printers the print head would
fire out a constant stream of drops. It would
then use an electrostatic charge to either direct
these drops out to the paper or back into an
ink collection system for re-use. The print
heads did not have any tiny tiny little elements
in them - they where just a nozzel being fed by
a pump.

All the AO size inkjets I have ever played with
have been drop on demand. But then I have a
limited view of them as most of the ones I have
played with have all been HP.

Perhapse some of the ones that use exotic inks
still use drop deflection techonolgy. (and
therefore I had no right calling it archaic :)


and not for the "of on a tangent" part.

We don't realy know if the DoD the first poster
mentioned wasn't "Drink or Die" the software
piracy group that was involved with the
release of DeCSS and whos members are all
being extradited to california to face the MPAA.

Maybe our new lurker wont be with us that long :D

> Steve wrote:
>
> What are "metholated spirits"?

Ethanol they have ruined.

In OZ and in some other parts it is called
methylated spirits. Other places call it
Denatured alcohol.

They take perfectly good alcohol from the
distilation plant. Get rid of the last 5%
of water which leaves nasty benzy thingies
in it. Add some methanol for good measure
to make it even less drinkable. These days
they even add blue dye to it to make it
look less apealing.

Doesn't seem to stop people drinking it
though. There are always folk tales of
hardware stores up north (down south for
you people in the other hemisphere) that
sell it pre-chilled.


(I was asumming that Steve wasn't just
asking "what is methOlated spirits?" to
bag someones spelling)

Steve wrote:

>>Hi,
>>> I needed to make a pcb. I hadn't used the Stylus 460 for atleast 6 months.
>>> After a couple of nozzle cleans, the epson test print showed one black line
>>> missing. A half dozen more cleans wouldn't fix it. So i put in an old black
>>> cartridge after filling it with metholated spirits with a syringe. I did
>>> dozens of cleans until the cartridge was empty, but it was still blocked.
>>> I refilled the cartridge with "Hardworking Nifti" spray cleaner detergent,
>>> and did 20 more nozzle cleans. Now all nozzles work.
>
>What are "metholated spirits"?

I meant methylated spirits.

>http://www.polyphoto.com/tutorials/PrintHeadCleaning/
>
>>> In linux, i just enter "escputil -c" 50 times (using the Bash shell repeat
>>> feature) and leave the printer to do 50 nozzle cleans. When i come back, i
>>> just enter "escputil -n" to do a nozzle check.

> I've been told repeatedly by Epson techs that it is bad to do more
> than 3 head cleanings in a row without printing -something- even just
> a nozzle check. Supposedly it keeps increasing in "intensity" and is
> at risk of damaging the head.
>
> In any case, you are wasting loads of ink doing that. See my link above.

I used an old cartridge i refilled with cleaner. Some of the other nozzles
that gave slightly fuzzy lines got sharper too.

Andrew Thornber wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have been lurking on this site for a while now, and thought I might throw
> in a few of my experiences.
>
> I used to be a printer/proofer engineer and worked on many similar machines
> if not a bit larger than your acerage home machine.
>
> All of the DOD style printer I worked with were made by the company that
> also manufacture Epson print heads.
>
> The way that has always worked for me was to get a good look at the nozzles
> and use either a lint free cloth soaked in Isopropyl alcohol and just press
> it gently against the underside of the head. This almost always worked. It
> may take a little time but will get there.
>
> The other way was to use a cotton bud dipped in isopropyl alcohol and clean
> the nozzles. Then wipe the head with a lint free cloth to get rid of all
> the bits of cotton.
>
> Running cleaning cycles is about a much use as shouting at it if you have
> some subborn nozzles. When the head is clamped into the cleaning station
> then it is sucking on all nozzles at the same time. If one is blocked and
> the others are clear all it will do is suck the ink from the clean nozzle!

With small holes, there is extremely high surface tension, so a large vacuum
can still be exerted even if 90% of the holes are clear. It is more likely that
the ink only flows due to the pressure of the piezo drivers, than any external
applied vacuum.

> Isopropyl alcohol is a standard solvent available from most places. In the
> UK we used to by it from RS Components but I think if you have a chat with a
> chemist they can get it for you. It is, if memory serves me correctly, very
> similar chemically to the solvent used in epson inks. (Which is why we used
> it!)
>
> Any way, enough of me. Sorry if I have been teaching any one to 'suck eggs'
> I just thought I might help out a little.

On May 31, 2006, at 10:41 AM, Stefan Trethan wrote:

> In such cases saturate the
> parking pad with steve's cleaning mix and drive the head onto it
> manually
> and let it sit. has cleaned every printer i tried it with right up.

Just to be clear: should the cartridges be taken out first?

Andrew Thornber wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have been lurking on this site for a while now, and thought I might throw
> in a few of my experiences.
>
> I used to be a printer/proofer engineer and worked on many similar machines
> if not a bit larger than your acerage home machine.
>
> All of the DOD style printer I worked with were made by the company that
> also manufacture Epson print heads.
>
> The way that has always worked for me was to get a good look at the nozzles
> and use either a lint free cloth soaked in Isopropyl alcohol and just press
> it gently against the underside of the head. This almost always worked. It
> may take a little time but will get there.
>
> The other way was to use a cotton bud dipped in isopropyl alcohol and clean
> the nozzles. Then wipe the head with a lint free cloth to get rid of all
> the bits of cotton.
>
> Running cleaning cycles is about a much use as shouting at it if you have
> some subborn nozzles. When the head is clamped into the cleaning station
> then it is sucking on all nozzles at the same time. If one is blocked and
> the others are clear all it will do is suck the ink from the clean nozzle!

With small holes, there is extremely high surface tension, so a large vacuum
can still be exerted even if 90% of the holes are clear. It is more likely that
the ink only flows due to the pressure of the piezo drivers, than any external
applied vacuum.

Any idiot can see that relying on the vacuum pump to clean the nozzles is
useless if the first nozzle to run freely prevents the other nozzles from
being cleaned!

> Isopropyl alcohol is a standard solvent available from most places. In the
> UK we used to by it from RS Components but I think if you have a chat with a
> chemist they can get it for you. It is, if memory serves me correctly, very
> similar chemically to the solvent used in epson inks. (Which is why we used
> it!)
>
> Any way, enough of me. Sorry if I have been teaching any one to 'suck eggs'
> I just thought I might help out a little.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, William Carr <Jkirk3279@...> wrote:

>
>
> On May 31, 2006, at 10:41 AM, Stefan Trethan wrote:
>
> > In such cases saturate the
> > parking pad with steve's cleaning mix and drive the head onto it
> > manually
> > and let it sit. has cleaned every printer i tried it with right up.
>
> Just to be clear: should the cartridges be taken out first?

No! To do so would cause the ink to start drying in the ink spike.

http://www.polyphoto.com/tutorials/PrintHeadCleaning/

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Russell Shaw <rjshaw@...> wrote:

>

> Any idiot can see that relying on the vacuum pump to clean the

nozzles is

> useless if the first nozzle to run freely prevents the other nozzles

from

> being cleaned!

Let's keep it civil.

A peristaltic pump with a hose hundreds of times larger diameter than
the nozzles... I don't think it's quite that clear cut, if it were
then the vacuum pump cleaner would be completely useless.

Steve Greenfield

Steve wrote:

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Russell Shaw <rjshaw@...> wrote:
>
>>Any idiot can see that relying on the vacuum pump to clean the
>>nozzles is useless if the first nozzle to run freely prevents the
>>other nozzles from being cleaned!
>
> Let's keep it civil.
>
> A peristaltic pump with a hose hundreds of times larger diameter than
> the nozzles... I don't think it's quite that clear cut, if it were
> then the vacuum pump cleaner would be completely useless.

The surface tension is a constant of the fluid. The force required to
form a droplet is independant of nozzle diameter. Therefore, the Pascals
required to form the same surface deflection is proportional to 1/area
or 1/diameter^2. Increasing the peristaltic pump hose diameter will make
no difference whatsoever. The vacuum pump is only for taking away the
fluid and forcing it into that fat dunny-roll inside the printer.

Here you are a stupid idea:
what if Zoran will "duplicate" a piezo printing head with only one
nozzle, to use the better
MIS Pro ink? Or another etch-resistant ink.

One reservoir, filled with ink, with a little hole on bottom and a
piezo transducer (buzzer) near that hole,
to act as a pump. Pulse driven.
The ink on the upper side of the piezo will make some pressure to
fill that hole after each spit.
Its inertia will keep the ink the right way.

All on a CNC machine (previously used to drill).
One drop per step, let say.
Cristian

You can buy a printhead that is driven by a basic
stamp for about $100. It is theoretically possible to
adapt this print head to a CNC. Unfortunatey it is not
a piezo.

Based on Stefan's work, you need at printer with very
high resolution (many tiny holes) to adequately cover
the pcb. Remember the ink is not absorbed and does not
spread out on the pcb as it does on paper.

You do bring up a good point. Direct to pcb resist
printing may be technically possible, but is it going
to be practical for the average person? There are
always a few hardy souls with a CNC or wiliing to jump
in and tear apart a printer. But what about the
average joe?

He is looking for a simple reliable inexpensive
technique with off the shelf items.

Toner transfer was a step in that direction, but we
all know about the inconsistancies in printer / paper
/ pressing that have plagued many people and the many,
many posts about problems with TT.

I really hope direct to pcb resist printing will at
least approach the level of Toner Transfer, but have
my doubts.

Myc





--- Cristian <bip@...> wrote:

> Here you are a stupid idea:
> what if Zoran will "duplicate" a piezo printing head
> with only one
> nozzle, to use the better
> MIS Pro ink? Or another etch-resistant ink.
>
> One reservoir, filled with ink, with a little hole
> on bottom and a
> piezo transducer (buzzer) near that hole,
> to act as a pump. Pulse driven.
> The ink on the upper side of the piezo will make
> some pressure to
> fill that hole after each spit.
> Its inertia will keep the ink the right way.
>
> All on a CNC machine (previously used to drill).
> One drop per step, let say.
> Cristian
>
>

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--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Russell Shaw <rjshaw@...> wrote:

>
> Steve wrote:
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Russell Shaw <rjshaw@> wrote:
> >
> >>Any idiot can see that relying on the vacuum pump to clean the
> >>nozzles is useless if the first nozzle to run freely prevents the
> >>other nozzles from being cleaned!
> >
> > Let's keep it civil.
> >
> > A peristaltic pump with a hose hundreds of times larger diameter than
> > the nozzles... I don't think it's quite that clear cut, if it were
> > then the vacuum pump cleaner would be completely useless.
>
> The surface tension is a constant of the fluid. The force required to
> form a droplet is independant of nozzle diameter. Therefore, the Pascals
> required to form the same surface deflection is proportional to 1/area
> or 1/diameter^2. Increasing the peristaltic pump hose diameter will make
> no difference whatsoever. The vacuum pump is only for taking away the
> fluid and forcing it into that fat dunny-roll inside the printer.

I'm not sure it is forming a droplet. It is possible to push or pull
ink through the nozzles without relying on the formation of droplets.

In any case, putting cleaning fluid in the park pad and letting it sit
for hours or a day seems to be a much more efficient way to unclog
badly clogged nozzles.

Steve Greenfield

How about a modified CD tray? Or just making an entirely new CD tray?

The big issue there is probably that the software will only allow ink
to be sprayed down within the CD area. Even though a business card CD
is a rectangle, there is the hub area.

But that would not require modifying the printer.

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...> wrote:
...
> You do bring up a good point. Direct to pcb resist
> printing may be technically possible, but is it going
> to be practical for the average person? There are
> always a few hardy souls with a CNC or wiliing to jump
> in and tear apart a printer. But what about the
> average joe?
>
> He is looking for a simple reliable inexpensive
> technique with off the shelf items.
...

Good points. Just other things to be tried.

Another issue is whether pcb or drawing programs will
print the pcb in colored ink rather than black. Again
the issue of not dedicating a costly printer for just
pcbs and refilling the black cartidge with colored ink
mix.

Myc

--- Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:

> How about a modified CD tray? Or just making an
> entirely new CD tray?
>
> The big issue there is probably that the software
> will only allow ink
> to be sprayed down within the CD area. Even though a
> business card CD
> is a rectangle, there is the hub area.
>
> But that would not require modifying the printer.
>
> Steve Greenfield
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mycroft2152
> <mycroft2152@...> wrote:
> ...
> > You do bring up a good point. Direct to pcb resist
> > printing may be technically possible, but is it
> going
> > to be practical for the average person? There are
> > always a few hardy souls with a CNC or wiliing to
> jump
> > in and tear apart a printer. But what about the
> > average joe?
> >
> > He is looking for a simple reliable inexpensive
> > technique with off the shelf items.
> ...
>
>
>
>

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Steve wrote:

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Russell Shaw <rjshaw@...> wrote:
>
>>Steve wrote:
>>
>>>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Russell Shaw <rjshaw@> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Any idiot can see that relying on the vacuum pump to clean the
>>>>nozzles is useless if the first nozzle to run freely prevents the
>>
>> >>other nozzles from being cleaned!
>>
>>>Let's keep it civil.
>>>
>>>A peristaltic pump with a hose hundreds of times larger diameter than
>>>the nozzles... I don't think it's quite that clear cut, if it were
>>>then the vacuum pump cleaner would be completely useless.
>>
>>The surface tension is a constant of the fluid. The force required to
>>form a droplet is independant of nozzle diameter. Therefore, the Pascals
>>required to form the same surface deflection is proportional to 1/area
>>or 1/diameter^2. Increasing the peristaltic pump hose diameter will make
>>no difference whatsoever. The vacuum pump is only for taking away the
>>fluid and forcing it into that fat dunny-roll inside the printer.
>
>
> I'm not sure it is forming a droplet. It is possible to push or pull
> ink through the nozzles without relying on the formation of droplets.

I know. But the force needs to exceed the surface tension before you'll
get any kind of flow out of the nozzle.

> In any case, putting cleaning fluid in the park pad and letting it sit
> for hours or a day seems to be a much more efficient way to unclog
> badly clogged nozzles.

When i tried Nifti as a refill, i set it for 20 cleanout cycles. When i
came back, it was working, so it could have been unblocked in much fewer
cycles. A drop of the ink in some Nifti shows it's an excellent solvent
for it (epson black ink).

On 01/06/06, Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:

> How about a modified CD tray? Or just making an entirely new CD tray?
>
> The big issue there is probably that the software will only allow ink
> to be sprayed down within the CD area. Even though a business card CD
> is a rectangle, there is the hub area.
>

This is not true on an epson 900 with cd print tray, it prints just
like a4, maybe others can do a simple test on a r200 or r300 of
loading the tray as normal, but /then/ changing paper type back to a4
and printing with a standard paint package, not the epson cd print
software.

Problem I have is I lost my epson cd so have to use
photoshop/paintshop, and have to use a blank a4 page with guidelines
and remember to reset my margins etc

In some ways this is better than the epson software, as it would not
allow you to print to the middle of the 'full face' disks.

Theoretically if someone writes a shareware driver or interface to the
driver that allows a full area rectangle to be printed with the CD
tray, it could also handle a different ICC profile to make it print
using yellow and magenta even though the PCB/CAD program is sending it
as black.

In which case you can also continue to use the printer for regular
printing. With the added advantage (with the CD printers) that now the
prints are pigmented and therefore water and fade resistant. And MIS
pigmented bulk ink is -way- cheaper than Epson OEM ink!

Although I'm far from rolling in money, under $100 seems very cheap
for this kind of thing. The printers are often found with rebates, I
can import inexpensive autoreset refillable cartridges and build my
own bulk ink system.

Toner transfer requires at least $200 for a laser printer (less if
bought used) and $50 to $100 for a laminator.

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...> wrote:
>
> Good points. Just other things to be tried.
>
> Another issue is whether pcb or drawing programs will
> print the pcb in colored ink rather than black. Again
> the issue of not dedicating a costly printer for just
> pcbs and refilling the black cartidge with colored ink
> mix.
>
> Myc
>
> --- Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:
>
> > How about a modified CD tray? Or just making an
> > entirely new CD tray?
> >
> > The big issue there is probably that the software
> > will only allow ink
> > to be sprayed down within the CD area. Even though a
> > business card CD
> > is a rectangle, there is the hub area.
> >
> > But that would not require modifying the printer.
> >
> > Steve Greenfield

> > I'm not sure it is forming a droplet. It is possible to push or pull
> > ink through the nozzles without relying on the formation of droplets.
>
> I know. But the force needs to exceed the surface tension before you'll
> get any kind of flow out of the nozzle.

However it works, it is doing something.

> > In any case, putting cleaning fluid in the park pad and letting it sit
> > for hours or a day seems to be a much more efficient way to unclog
> > badly clogged nozzles.
>
> When i tried Nifti as a refill, i set it for 20 cleanout cycles. When i
> came back, it was working, so it could have been unblocked in much fewer
> cycles. A drop of the ink in some Nifti shows it's an excellent solvent
> for it (epson black ink).

Water will pass that test. Let some ink dry for a week, then try it.
20 cleaning cycles might have worked with just a regular OEM Epson
cartridge.

Steve Greenfield

Steve,

Your numbers are a little high. Laser printers $80,
laminators $30. Irons less. Mastercard ;)

Some people with use a readily availible photocopier
-- zero dollars.

Homebrew-pcbs is a specialized group of very vocal (or
whatever the term for posters is) people that are well
beyond the ordindary joe. Sometimes, we, myself
included, forget our roots and have our heads in the
clouds.

If $100 is very cheap, then why haven't you yet
purchased a R220 which lists for $100 and can be
purchased (refurbished) from EPSOn directly for $71
with shipping included? Don't forget the ink
settlement which drops the cost considerably.

You missed the point about the average joe. He is not
going out and spending his $$$ on a set up just for
making pcbs. Again, I'm talking about the average guy
maybe making a few boards a month. he'll buy a refill
ink kit, but not a continuous feed kit, to save money
overall.

Yes there are a few dedicated souls who for their own
purposes will spend some extra $$$ just to be able to
make a pcb...

The KISS principle does reign.

I'm glad you're volunteering to write these drivers.

Myc



--- Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:

> Theoretically if someone writes a shareware driver
> or interface to the
> driver that allows a full area rectangle to be
> printed with the CD
> tray, it could also handle a different ICC profile
> to make it print
> using yellow and magenta even though the PCB/CAD
> program is sending it
> as black.
>
> In which case you can also continue to use the
> printer for regular
> printing. With the added advantage (with the CD
> printers) that now the
> prints are pigmented and therefore water and fade
> resistant. And MIS
> pigmented bulk ink is -way- cheaper than Epson OEM
> ink!
>
> Although I'm far from rolling in money, under $100
> seems very cheap
> for this kind of thing. The printers are often found
> with rebates, I
> can import inexpensive autoreset refillable
> cartridges and build my
> own bulk ink system.
>
> Toner transfer requires at least $200 for a laser
> printer (less if
> bought used) and $50 to $100 for a laminator.
>
> Steve Greenfield
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mycroft2152
> <mycroft2152@...> wrote:
> >
> > Good points. Just other things to be tried.
> >
> > Another issue is whether pcb or drawing programs
> will
> > print the pcb in colored ink rather than black.
> Again
> > the issue of not dedicating a costly printer for
> just
> > pcbs and refilling the black cartidge with colored
> ink
> > mix.
> >
> > Myc
> >
> > --- Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:
> >
> > > How about a modified CD tray? Or just making an
> > > entirely new CD tray?
> > >
> > > The big issue there is probably that the
> software
> > > will only allow ink
> > > to be sprayed down within the CD area. Even
> though a
> > > business card CD
> > > is a rectangle, there is the hub area.
> > >
> > > But that would not require modifying the
> printer.
> > >
> > > Steve Greenfield
>
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
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Steve wrote:

>>>I'm not sure it is forming a droplet. It is possible to push or pull
>>>ink through the nozzles without relying on the formation of droplets.
>>
>>I know. But the force needs to exceed the surface tension before you'll
>>get any kind of flow out of the nozzle.
>
>
> However it works, it is doing something.
>
>
>>>In any case, putting cleaning fluid in the park pad and letting it sit
>>>for hours or a day seems to be a much more efficient way to unclog
>>>badly clogged nozzles.
>>
>>When i tried Nifti as a refill, i set it for 20 cleanout cycles. When i
>>came back, it was working, so it could have been unblocked in much fewer
>>cycles. A drop of the ink in some Nifti shows it's an excellent solvent
>>for it (epson black ink).
>
>
> Water will pass that test. Let some ink dry for a week, then try it.
> 20 cleaning cycles might have worked with just a regular OEM Epson
> cartridge.

I had already done half a dozen clean-outs with the epson cartridge in
there, and i wasn't about to waste any more of that $1000/Lt ink;)

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...> wrote:

>
> Steve,
>
> Your numbers are a little high. Laser printers $80,
> laminators $30. Irons less. Mastercard ;)
>
> Some people with use a readily availible photocopier
> -- zero dollars.

Your point? We should all drop every other method because it might
cost some money to set it up and use photocopiers and clothes irons?

> Homebrew-pcbs is a specialized group of very vocal (or
> whatever the term for posters is) people that are well
> beyond the ordindary joe. Sometimes, we, myself
> included, forget our roots and have our heads in the
> clouds.

The "ordinary joe" isn't likely to be making projects from scratch.
Someone coming from kit building should be learning more, and is
likely to be looking for a challenge. Besides, if some of us start
using direct inkjet printing, how does that stop the "ordinary joe"
from using toner transfer, or photo exposure, or anything else?

> If $100 is very cheap, then why haven't you yet
> purchased a R220 which lists for $100 and can be
> purchased (refurbished) from EPSOn directly for $71
> with shipping included? Don't forget the ink
> settlement which drops the cost considerably.

I have an R200, thanks. Bought it from someone who got it free with a
camera, cost me $60 unopened box. After I use up the OEM dye ink, the
plan has always been to install MIS pigmented ink in it, specifically
for archival photo printing.

But what is your point? If I didn't do it already, I'm not allowed to
suggest it?

As it happens, I did some tests from an Epson 5000 loaded with another
type of MIS pigmented ink. I think my problem may have been not
cooking the ink at high enough temp. I noticed a couple of people
saying that the yellow ink darkened, I didn't cook mine high enough to
darken the ink and it ran. Or it may have been that the exact ink, MIS
PRO, is required.

> You missed the point about the average joe. He is not
> going out and spending his $$$ on a set up just for
> making pcbs. Again, I'm talking about the average guy
> maybe making a few boards a month. he'll buy a refill
> ink kit, but not a continuous feed kit, to save money
> overall.

Sure, and I mentioned refill cartridges. But why would the "average
joe" who's making only a few boards a month spend -anything- on making
them if he is that broke or concerned about money?

> Yes there are a few dedicated souls who for their own
> purposes will spend some extra $$$ just to be able to
> make a pcb...

Again, what is your point? That they shouldn't be allowed, because
"average joe" can't or doesn't want to?

Will you require all those members doing THP to stop, because Average
Joe can't to THP?

> The KISS principle does reign.

I thought a modified CD tray -was- KISS. Others have asked the
question about selecting which color is printed, I think one
suggestion is to export to a raster image and modify the color in your
favorite image editor before printing. Since I think it's likely we
have a few programmers here, I mentioned the option of a custom
driver, someone else mentioned a way to "fool" the printer that at
least works on the Epson Photo 900. As I said, a custom ICC profile
just for PCB printing could also do the job where it comes to which
ink is printed.

> I'm glad you're volunteering to write these drivers.

No need to cop an attitude.

If you aren't interested in direct inkjet resist printing, then don't
do it. Something new like this is going to get a lot of traffic on the
list until it gets "perfected". Just delete the threads 'til then
instead of reading them.

Steve Greenfield

> >>When i tried Nifti as a refill, i set it for 20 cleanout cycles.

When i

> >>came back, it was working, so it could have been unblocked in much

fewer

> >>cycles. A drop of the ink in some Nifti shows it's an excellent

solvent

> >>for it (epson black ink).
> >
> >
> > Water will pass that test. Let some ink dry for a week, then try it.
> > 20 cleaning cycles might have worked with just a regular OEM Epson
> > cartridge.
>
> I had already done half a dozen clean-outs with the epson cartridge in
> there, and i wasn't about to waste any more of that $1000/Lt ink;)

I agree completely, my point was just that a drop of undried ink into
anything isn't a good test of how good a cleaner Nifti or anything
else is.

Steve Greenfield

On 01/06/06, Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:

> Theoretically if someone writes a shareware driver or interface to the
> driver that allows a full area rectangle to be printed with the CD
> tray, it could also handle a different ICC profile to make it print
> using yellow and magenta even though the PCB/CAD program is sending it
> as black.

Well I am hoping that all epsons behave like mine and will print
anywhere on the tray, like I said, mine would not, but it was not the
printer, it was the software, dumping the software and just sliding
the tray in and selecting a4 in MS paint let it print anywhere I
wanted.

as to the icc idea, that would be good.

> Although I'm far from rolling in money, under $100 seems very cheap
> for this kind of thing. The printers are often found with rebates, I
> can import inexpensive autoreset refillable cartridges and build my
> own bulk ink system.

I have looked into this, and have a chip resetter, but I could not get
any spongeless carts in the uk at a sensible price (hey its an empty
plastic cube, it should cost $2 not $20)

I have toyed with idea of just removing sponge and injecting ink to
see what happens

but at the moment a ciss seems to be a dream until I can learn enough
to build one, or find one cheap I can afford.
(and somewhere in the UK that sells ink like mispro)

Steve,

Don't get your dander up. Calm down. Don't over react.

I was responding to your implied point that the
laserjet and laminator was more expensive than inkjet
and that inkjet was thus a better choice.

Any technique is viable for making pcbs, for the right
person. Some people swear by the photo method, others
by TT, to each his own.

The R200 series has been suggested quite a few times
already. It could be a KISS machine. Maybe, maybe not.

Your definition of "average joe" and mine differ. My
definition includes the fact pcbs ARE going to be
made. After all isn't that what we are talking about
here?

My point is that for this to be widely used it must be
KISS simple. It is not there yet. Having one person
finally duplicate the results after 5 weeks and 400+
posts does not make it a fait accompli.

There are still too many details up in the air for
KISS practicality. Put board over a hot plate until
the ink turns brewn is not a method that is
consistant. Is it good enough? I surely hopw so.

I have never said nor implied that all members shoud
stop trying to develop new techniques, what I said is
that they should get their heads out of clouds and
make sure is is simple and reliable.

Whether or not I make pcbs with inkjet printed resist
will be my choice, not any one elses.

Can we just get back to making inkjet printed resist
work and stop this thread which turned into a pi$$ing
match?

Myc





--- Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:

.

>
> Your point? We should all drop every other method
> because it might
> cost some money to set it up and use photocopiers
> and clothes irons?
>



> > Homebrew-pcbs is a specialized group of very vocal
> (or
> > whatever the term for posters is) people that are
> well
> > beyond the ordindary joe. Sometimes, we, myself
> > included, forget our roots and have our heads in
> the
> > clouds.
>
> The "ordinary joe" isn't likely to be making
> projects from scratch.
> Someone coming from kit building should be learning
> more, and is
> likely to be looking for a challenge. Besides, if
> some of us start
> using direct inkjet printing, how does that stop the
> "ordinary joe"
> from using toner transfer, or photo exposure, or
> anything else?
>
> > If $100 is very cheap, then why haven't you yet
> > purchased a R220 which lists for $100 and can be
> > purchased (refurbished) from EPSOn directly for
> $71
> > with shipping included? Don't forget the ink
> > settlement which drops the cost considerably.
>
> I have an R200, thanks. Bought it from someone who
> got it free with a
> camera, cost me $60 unopened box. After I use up the
> OEM dye ink, the
> plan has always been to install MIS pigmented ink in
> it, specifically
> for archival photo printing.
>
> But what is your point? If I didn't do it already,
> I'm not allowed to
> suggest it?
>
> As it happens, I did some tests from an Epson 5000
> loaded with another
> type of MIS pigmented ink. I think my problem may
> have been not
> cooking the ink at high enough temp. I noticed a
> couple of people
> saying that the yellow ink darkened, I didn't cook
> mine high enough to
> darken the ink and it ran. Or it may have been that
> the exact ink, MIS
> PRO, is required.
>
> > You missed the point about the average joe. He is
> not
> > going out and spending his $$$ on a set up just
> for
> > making pcbs. Again, I'm talking about the average
> guy
> > maybe making a few boards a month. he'll buy a
> refill
> > ink kit, but not a continuous feed kit, to save
> money
> > overall.
>
> Sure, and I mentioned refill cartridges. But why
> would the "average
> joe" who's making only a few boards a month spend
> -anything- on making
> them if he is that broke or concerned about money?
>
> > Yes there are a few dedicated souls who for their
> own
> > purposes will spend some extra $$$ just to be able
> to
> > make a pcb...
>
> Again, what is your point? That they shouldn't be
> allowed, because
> "average joe" can't or doesn't want to?
>
> Will you require all those members doing THP to
> stop, because Average
> Joe can't to THP?
>
> > The KISS principle does reign.
>
> I thought a modified CD tray -was- KISS. Others have
> asked the
> question about selecting which color is printed, I
> think one
> suggestion is to export to a raster image and modify
> the color in your
> favorite image editor before printing. Since I think
> it's likely we
> have a few programmers here, I mentioned the option
> of a custom
> driver, someone else mentioned a way to "fool" the
> printer that at
> least works on the Epson Photo 900. As I said, a
> custom ICC profile
> just for PCB printing could also do the job where it
> comes to which
> ink is printed.
>
> > I'm glad you're volunteering to write these
> drivers.
>
> No need to cop an attitude.
>
> If you aren't interested in direct inkjet resist
> printing, then don't
> do it. Something new like this is going to get a lot
> of traffic on the
> list until it gets "perfected". Just delete the
> threads 'til then
> instead of reading them.
>
> Steve Greenfield
>
>
>
>

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On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 18:45:19 +0200, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:

>
> I have toyed with idea of just removing sponge and injecting ink to
> see what happens

It won't work because the ink will then run out the head.
A CIS seems easier to build than a spolgeless cart...


You should maybe get over that "only buy in UK" issue and go ahead and
order some yellow ink....


ST

<mispro ink to uk, buying abroad, getting over it>


I'l get it over it when 'parcel force' stop charging flat rates for
'handling fee's' on items that need vat paying.(ie everything)

If I order it, and they decide it needs vat adding, its £15 / $30
extra + the actual vat(pennies)

Last time was a car alarm from canada, 15ukp handling + 12ukp
duty&vat, 27ukp on a 70ukp alarm, 30% price increase to me.

And all the duty/vat is added to the total shipping price, not just
item purchase price.

Thats why I dont order anything from over the water unless its coming
in a padded envelope, they seem to be ignored, as they are letters not
parcels, little boxes seem to get opened, and once they have charged
you once, your address is flagged for future checking.

And they often delay things for extended periods, like when a friend
living here with me got some videos sent, they where delayed weeks
while they watched them, on the grounds that they may be porn!

Yea i know there's something wrong with shipping on the island, with
parcel farce and all..

But customs is a PITA here too. Took ages and i'm sure much of it was them
sitting on it, only to decide they can't really find a way to charge me
anything since it was below the minimum amount or something....
So much easier within the EU. But then, you guys don't really count,
strange money and all, and insane shipping cost. Still not much fun doing
business with you guys from the island...

ST

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 22:49:09 +0200, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:

> <mispro ink to uk, buying abroad, getting over it>
> I'l get it over it when 'parcel force' stop charging flat rates for
> 'handling fee's' on items that need vat paying.(ie everything)
> If I order it, and they decide it needs vat adding, its £15 / $30
> extra + the actual vat(pennies)
> Last time was a car alarm from canada, 15ukp handling + 12ukp
> duty&vat, 27ukp on a 70ukp alarm, 30% price increase to me.
> And all the duty/vat is added to the total shipping price, not just
> item purchase price.
> Thats why I dont order anything from over the water unless its coming
> in a padded envelope, they seem to be ignored, as they are letters not
> parcels, little boxes seem to get opened, and once they have charged
> you once, your address is flagged for future checking.
> And they often delay things for extended periods, like when a friend
> living here with me got some videos sent, they where delayed weeks
> while they watched them, on the grounds that they may be porn!

What is "Steve's Cleaning Mix"?



_____

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Russell Shaw
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:38 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Unblocking epsons



Steve wrote:

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Russell Shaw <rjshaw@...> wrote:
>
>>Any idiot can see that relying on the vacuum pump to clean the
>>nozzles is useless if the first nozzle to run freely prevents the
>>other nozzles from being cleaned!
>
> Let's keep it civil.
>
> A peristaltic pump with a hose hundreds of times larger diameter than
> the nozzles... I don't think it's quite that clear cut, if it were
> then the vacuum pump cleaner would be completely useless.

The surface tension is a constant of the fluid. The force required to
form a droplet is independant of nozzle diameter. Therefore, the Pascals
required to form the same surface deflection is proportional to 1/area
or 1/diameter^2. Increasing the peristaltic pump hose diameter will make
no difference whatsoever. The vacuum pump is only for taking away the
fluid and forcing it into that fat dunny-roll inside the printer.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Feel free to flame me if I am talking drivel - but

> Steve and MYC wrote:

> Homebrew-pcbs is a specialized group of very vocal (or
> whatever the term for posters is) people that are well
> beyond the ordindary joe.

> <SNIP>

> You missed the point about the average joe. He is not
> going out and spending his $$$ on a set up just for
> making pcbs. Again, I'm talking about the average guy
> maybe making a few boards a month.

Well - making a few PCBs a month probably is more than
the average "joe". I would guess the average joe does
not even know what a PCB is (or thinks it's that stuff
Monsanto pour into the Hudson river)

A VERY average person may once in their life want to
make a PCB for their 12 year old sons science fair
project.

That person is best off asking someone else to do it.

Someone that wants to make one PCB in a blue moon might
step up from asking someone to make it and use toner
transfer. Toner transfer is close to ZERO dollars for
entry as almost everyone in the world has access to a
laser printer even if they don't own one them selves.
I also think most people would have a household iron.

I'm not here today to bag toner transfer and say "it's
only good for rank amatures that do one PCB a year".
Toner transfer is great and gets realy good results
for a lot of people. Plenty of people use TT for
making quite profesional looking boards on a regular
basis.

These people are in the kind of catergory where they
would buy a special laser printer just for it and buy
or make a laminator.

If your in that category - then maybe buying/hacking/
building a special inkjet might be for you.

> Yes there are a few dedicated souls who for their own
> purposes will spend some extra $$$ just to be able to
> make a pcb...

But then we come back to the point - this is the
"Homebrew PCB". People have come here becuase they are
interested in making PCBs at home.

I guess Homebrew PCB is the same as Homebrew beer.
The Average Joe that likes to drink beer will just go
to the shop and buy some XXXX/Fosters/Guiness/Budweiser
(pick your country of origins average undrinkable brew)
Some people however WANT to homebrew beer. They all
have different reasons.

Some people homebrew beer for a better taste.
Some people homebrew beer for a cheaper product.
Some people homebrew beer 'cause they just can't but it.
Some people homebrew beer to get away from their wives.

What ever the reason - they are homebrewers.

We all homebrew PCBs for different reasons.

Mine is for speed in prototyping.

Most of you will have different or varying reasons.

Some of you are in "mad scientist" mode and are out
to find a better way to do it. Thumbs up to you and
good luck.

I think we just need to bear in mind that InkJet
direct is "experimental" at the moment and until it
has matured a bit then comparing it to established
methods is going to lead to arguments like "it WILL
be better".

I'm not yet going to recomend a new group "Yahoo
Experimental Homebrew PCB" but maybe it might be
an idea to prefix posts with with word
"experimental" if it is not tried and true ?
Is this a good idea or a bad idea ?

Also - Does anyone think it is a good idea to do
some well written documents doing pros and cons of
differnt methods AND then some consistant tutorials
on each of the methods ?

I will start another thread on this and put in my
thoughts - Everyone feel welcome to add/argue/flame.

" vs Photo"????

Andrew <andrewm1973@...> wrote: Feel free to flame me if I am talking drivel - but....


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry was going to be to the point - but
I started to ramble and drivel (as I do)
and went off track and split my original
intent into a new thread that WAS about

Toner Vs Photo Vs other ect.

>> Andrew <andrewm1973@...> wrote:
>> Feel free to flame me if I am talking drivel - but....
>
> guja wrote:
> " vs Photo"????

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De la part de guja
> Envoyé : juin 1 2006 21:08
> À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Objet : Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Practicality - Buying vs Toner vs
> Inkjet vs Milling vs Photo
>
>
> " vs Photo"????

For those that don't know:

- Buying, well that one seems self-explanatory.

- Toner transfer, printing the circuit on a special paper and transferring
the image onto the PCB using heat and then etching.

- Inkjet, printing the circuit directly onto the PCB using etch-resistant
ink and then etching.

- Milling, using a CNC machine to carve out the spaces on the PCB to leave
the traces intact, no etching required (toxic dust).

- Photo, printing the circuit on a 'transparent' paper, placing it over a
PCB that has a photo-sensitive coating, then dipping it in a developping
solution and then etching.

Google has many tutorials explaining each technique in detail, except for
the Inkjet, and that's the technique the group is testing right now.

Robert
:)

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Rachels"
<drachels1@...> wrote:

>
> What is "Steve's Cleaning Mix"?

http://www.polyphoto.com/tutorials/PrintHeadCleaning

* 5 parts distilled or filtered water
* 4 parts 50% or 70% isopropyl alcohol - clear
* 1 part clear nonsudsing household ammonia - clear

NO drinking water, NO purified water. "Purified" just means anything
alive has been killed, still has all the metals and minerals.

I found that isopropyl just didn't remove all dried ink. Denatured
alcohol has the downside that it attacks some plastics (specifically
the plastic that most/all desktop printers are made of) and doesn't
dissolve ink appreciably better than isopropyl. And it doesn't take
much ammonia to dissolve even long-dried ink.

The alcohol is in there as a just-in-case, as it does have some ink
dissolving powers.

Steve Greenfield

> strange money and all, and insane shipping cost. Still not much fun doing
> business with you guys from the island...

No, imprisoned here, but we have a way for some things, I am a member
on a few yahoo groups, and with that you make friends, friends can
send you things.........
For repair of course, or as a free sample. works both ways.

On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:08:44 +0200, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:

>
> No, imprisoned here, but we have a way for some things, I am a member
> on a few yahoo groups, and with that you make friends, friends can
> send you things.........
> For repair of course, or as a free sample. works both ways.

Yes, that's how i got my ink. But that's because i don't have a credit
card. Aren't used much here, same as checks, no need since the banks seem
to work much better. Many online shops accept paypal these days, but not
inksupply.com. There should be a way to use paypal for credit card
payments, the other way around it works too...

ST

I have had no problem paypal'ing money to ppl stateside for 'goods'
that they then post to me for 'repair' or destruction, I must be
really useless though because I have had to keep all of that broken
gear, wonder how much tax I owe on broken equipment, that last mouse
was really useless.

If anyone wants to send me some ink, for copper based puddling tests,
I would be willing to pay for post/packing and time/trouble.

This is not an offer to buy any ink, heaven forbid if I bought it from
someone I would have pay import duty, taxes, processing fee's etc
running into, well, lots, its just an offer to put it through my
printer and test it for you.......

(printer is a flat path cd printing 900 epson)