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Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] updates on cupric chloride etching. part 2

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] updates on cupric chloride etching. part 2

2003-04-09 by Adam Seychell

Grant,

There is some interesting reading inside the technical section on 
http://www.oxfordvue.com/

http://www.oxfordvue.com/TechInfo/copper_and_acid_normal.html
they suggest the correct procedure for acid titrations. It so 
happens that you DO NOT use an indicator because its more 
accurate to rely on the initiation of tubidity change rather than 
color change on indicator. The CuCl2 + NaOH will form insoluble 
Cu(OH)2 once all the free HCl acid is consumed. Well that news 
makes it easier and cheaper for us.

There is a lot to learning about this etchant and how to properly 
use it and maintain it. I've been talking to Phil Culpovich via 
email who I think is one of the main people at Oxford V.U.E., 
Inc. Below is a copy of his reply.


--------------------------------

Adam,

Since the production shops that use cupric must have a faster 
regeneration speed, they use a controller and oxidizer to speed 
and control the process. In your case, the oxygen method is 
sufficient and tends to be safer since you virtually can't overdo 
the oxidizer additions resulting in the release of chlorine gas.

As to the differences in free acid levels, the range boils down 
to a relationship between the need for quality and speed vs. the 
wide ranging results coming from different etcher designs. As a 
rule of thumb for conveyorized spray etchers, higher acid results 
in lower quality. Zero acid works best for quality since there is 
no acid undercut. The cuprous that forms during etching under the 
nozzles is soluble in HCl so uncontrolled etching occurs between 
the nozzles on the top surface of panels in a converized etcher 
where free acid is present.

The drawback for zero acid can be a loss of speed but this 
doesn't have to be the case. If you have a sufficient quantity of 
nozzles with higher flow rates at higher spray pressures, the 
acid speed increase disappears while still maintaining the 
highest quality and consistency. I will forward a copy of a 
comparison of speed between etchers illustrating this point that 
was done by Circuit Research Corp. separately from the TechNet 
since no attachments are allowed through the listserver.

In any case, in a spray etcher, a higher free acid than 2N has no 
appreciable benefits and just causes an environmental, safety and 
quality mess.

In the case of your dip tank, etch speed will tend to be slower 
anyway unless there is some agitation of the solution or the part 
etched. Free acid will help here on the speed, as you mentioned, 
because of the solubility of cuprous formed from etching while in 
HCl. There would be no discernable quality advantage between zero 
acid and any other acid Normality chosen since you are not 
controlling the direction of the etch in any way. Keeping the 
free acid between 0.1N-0.5N, as you say, should give you the best 
compromise between speed, cost, environmental concern and quality.

If the dip tank provides you with sufficient quality and quantity 
for what you are etching, then I would say you have progressed as 
far as you need to to keep your project under control and costs down.

As to using the chemical oxidizers for regeneration (chlorine 
gas, hydrogen peroxide and sodium chlorate), this reduces the 
regeneration time required from your current several hours down 
to less than 10 minutes for all the oxidizer chemistries and 
automated control methods.

Feel free to e-mail me any time if you have more questions.

Best regards,

Phil Culpovich pculpovich@... www.oxfordvue.com

-----Original Message----- From: TechNet 
[mailto:TechNet@...]On Behalf Of Adam Seychell Sent: 
Wednesday, April 09, 2003 2:00 AM To: TechNet@... Subject: 
Re: [TN] cupric chloride parameters


Phil,

You response tells me I am more or less on track with the 
chemistry. It amazes me the fact that free acid concentration can 
vary across such high range. It wouldn't be surprising then to 
hear conflicting arguments on what is the best level of acid to 
use in CuCl2 etching.

What I hope to achieve is a 5 gallon immersion etching tank, for 
occasional etching of single sided prototype PCB's. What you 
describe about the slow regeneration with air bubbles is spot on 
to my observations. Yes, the regeneration rate via air bubbles 
alone is many times slower than the rate of copper being 
dissolved. Fortunately the tank will have limited use and so it 
may continue being regenerated for a long time (e.g several 
hours) after the PCB has finished etching. I believe the volume 
of solution should be sufficient to hold the limited amount of 
copper(I) produced during the relativly short etching period.

To test when regeneration is complete, I take a few drops of 
etchant and add to 5 ml of water, if a cloudy precipitate forms 
then it indicates a significant amount of copper(I) is present 
and regeneration must continue. I have tested this on small 
scale, and it seems to give a good indiation, the time for 
regeneration can be up to 3 or 4 hours. I guess the industry have 
much cleaver more automated methods of keeping the solution 
regenerated with chemical oxidizers.

Adam

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Re: updates on cupric chloride etching. part 2

2003-04-11 by grantfair2001

Hi Adam - well this is quite timely, since the source I hoped could
provide methyl orange, Cole Parmer (LabCo in Canada) does not sell
chemicals and to date, other local companies I have found won't sell
chemicals to individuals.

Thanks, I will read the website information provided with interest.

I did find some copper - bright shiny wire end pieces about 12" long,
maybe 14 ga; 5 pounds at $1.50 pound. I think the scrapper was
surprised I wanted to buy it, not sell it. Quite a few characters
hanging about the place, too, so it was a minor adventure to visit.

I have a friend who is a plastics development chemist with Dupont, but
when I asked him about cupric chloride and related issues, he said I
needed to find a "wet chemist"; it was too far from his experience. It
seems like you have found someone who is truly expert, and helpful to
boot - a great find.

Keep us posted. The copper will go into my tank tomorrow to get me
started, I hope, so by next week I may have a progress report.

Grant

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell
<adam_seychell@y...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Grant,
> 
> There is some interesting reading inside the technical section on 
> http://www.oxfordvue.com/
> 
> http://www.oxfordvue.com/TechInfo/copper_and_acid_normal.html
> they suggest the correct procedure for acid titrations. It so 
> happens that you DO NOT use an indicator because its more 
> accurate to rely on the initiation of tubidity change rather than 
> color change on indicator. The CuCl2 + NaOH will form insoluble 
> Cu(OH)2 once all the free HCl acid is consumed. Well that news 
> makes it easier and cheaper for us.

Copper analysis chemicals

2003-04-11 by grantfair2001

It also appears that copper analysis chemicals might be easy to find-
ammonium hydroxide is available as household ammonia, (though I don't
know at what concentration), acetic acid and sodium thiosulfate are
common photographic developing chenicals, and potassium iodide is
readily available on the net (as an emergency measure against nuclear
attack to block radioactive iodine). It is also present in some iodine
tinctures used as antiseptic, along with iodine, so I don't know if
that would work.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell
<adam_seychell@y...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Grant,
> 
> There is some interesting reading inside the technical section on 
> http://www.oxfordvue.com/
> 
> http://www.oxfordvue.com/TechInfo/copper_and_acid_normal.html
> they suggest the correct procedure for acid titrations.

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