Yahoo Groups archive

Homebrew_PCBs

Index last updated: 2026-03-31 23:13 UTC

Thread

Successful TT with Pulsar paper. Tinning "mishap" with Plumbers paste.

Successful TT with Pulsar paper. Tinning "mishap" with Plumbers paste.

2006-05-15 by jzmuda2000

I just now made up a simple single-sided circuit board with 12 mil
tracks and 14mil spacing. Its all SMD. (Except for the DB-9 and 10-
pin header.)

I used the Dyna-Art paper. (They are called Pulsar, now.) Needless to
say, this stuff has been sitting around on my shelf un-noticed for too
long. But, I figured I should give TT a try for this small board
(since I don't have any of the other method like EDM or CNC milling
working - yet.)

Anyway, the short of it is - the TT process went well. I used an
ancient HP-5L with a real HP C3906A toner cartridge. I cleaned the
board rather thoroughly with Comet and steel wool. I used moderate
pressure on an iron for 5 minutes. (The Pulsar instructions say 3
minutes - but that didn't work.) All the toner ended up on the
copper.

I etched with Sodium Persulfate (it goes from clear to light blue,
letting you easily monitor the process.) I used an aquarium bubbler in
a shallow tank made from a small tupperware dish. I had the board
horizontal the whole time. Not a good idea. The etching process took
over 1.5 hours. Instead of the 0.5 indicated on the Sodium
Persulfate. A couple of things might have worked against me. I had
started with a rather hot etchant bath (kitchen tap water warm) but
with the large flat surface, it quickly cooled. I was being stingy
with the etchant...but it would be more effective I think to etch with
the board held vertically in a thin tank, rather than horizontally in
a shallow tank. Even with the bubbler, it was clear that the agitation
was incomplete. Since the copper nearest the bubbler etched much*
faster that the copper elsewhere. I ended up having to change the
orientation of the board several times during the etching process.
Disposable chopsticks made a good tool for doing this. :-)

All-in-all, though, I was quite happy with the result.

But, I wouldn't leave well enough alone.

I decided I really wanted a tinned board. So, I picked up some
plumber solder paste at the local hardware store.

Except they didn't have the lead-based "Solder-It" brand. Instead,
they had some Silver-based stuff. It is called "Flo-Temp" Lead-free
instant Plumbing solder***. By Alpha Metals.

Anyway, I spread on a thin layer using a chopstick. Well, not thin
enough I think. I then hit it with the hot air gun (part of my SMD
soldering station.) I watched it go through all the transitions that
Stefan recounted. It seemed to be doing pretty much what I wanted.
(It was fun watching the image of the board re-emerge as the stuff
heated, melted, and grabbed onto the copper leaving the etched areas
free.)

But I wasn't pleased with how it looked. There was too much solder
blobbed up on most of the board (some parts were OK...just at the
edges...where I had probably accidently laid down less.) So I tried
Stefan's suggested method for removing the excess. With a paper
towel. Except, it didn't really want to come off. I used a slightly
damp paper towel, btw. I shot the board again with the hot air gun -
just before applying the towel. I suspect the wet towel might have
cooled the board, I mean the solder, off too quickly, so it froze in
place, instead of wiping aside.

Any hints as to what to do next? On certain parts of the board, it
looks tantilizingly like a professional job, with just the thinnest
coating of silver barely hiding the copper. But most of the board
looks like hell.

At least there aren't any (or many) shorts. So, although its ugly, it
should work.

Should I try throwing it in the over to get even heat, and then a
swipe with a dry paper towel? It is a little hard getting the solder
across the whole board to be shiny, at the same time, with the hot air
gun. I have a little toaster oven which is destined someday to be a
reflow oven...but right now it hasn't any temperature regulation other
than what it came with. Should I just set the oven to 450, wait for
it to reflow, and then wipe off the excess?

Or should I quit while I'm ahead...before I screw it up further...and
over heat it so I pull up a trace? Nah...full speed ahead. Tomorrow
I'll fire up that toaster oven.

Jim

*well, actually just a bit faster. Obviously with a 1.5 hour etch
time, this wasn't going anywhere fast.

**Actually, I think there was one other thing working against me. I
am not certain that I cleaned the Pulsar papers "glue" off of the
board completely enough before etching. Their procedure is to wipe
the board once with the "depleted" paper after making the transfer,
and then rinse under running water. I am not sure, but I thought I saw
some residue still on the board. But, I figured it would come off in
the bath. Finally, perhaps the etchant is old? I cannot remember how
many years ago I purchased it. I am not clear on its shelf life.

***It says it melts at 430F. Regular lead-tin solder melts at 370F.

Successful TT with Pulsar paper. Tinning "mishap" with Plumbers paste.

2006-05-15 by jzmuda2000

I just now made up a simple single-sided circuit board with 12 mil
tracks and 14mil spacing. Its all SMD. (Except for the DB-9 and 10-
pin header.)

I used the Dyna-Art paper. (They are called Pulsar, now.) Needless to
say, this stuff has been sitting around on my shelf un-noticed for too
long. But, I figured I should give TT a try for this small board
(since I don't have any of the other method like EDM or CNC milling
working - yet.)

Anyway, the short of it is - the TT process went well. I used an
ancient HP-5L with a real HP C3906A toner cartridge. I cleaned the
board rather thoroughly with Comet and steel wool. I used moderate
pressure on an iron for 5 minutes. (The Pulsar instructions say 3
minutes - but that didn't work.) All the toner ended up on the
copper.

I etched with Sodium Persulfate (it goes from clear to light blue,
letting you easily monitor the process.) I used an aquarium bubbler in
a shallow tank made from a small tupperware dish. I had the board
horizontal the whole time. Not a good idea. The etching process took
over 1.5 hours. Instead of the 0.5 indicated on the Sodium
Persulfate. A couple of things might have worked against me. I had
started with a rather hot etchant bath (kitchen tap water warm) but
with the large flat surface, it quickly cooled. I was being stingy
with the etchant...but it would be more effective I think to etch with
the board held vertically in a thin tank, rather than horizontally in
a shallow tank. Even with the bubbler, it was clear that the agitation
was incomplete. Since the copper nearest the bubbler etched much*
faster that the copper elsewhere. I ended up having to change the
orientation of the board several times during the etching process.
Disposable chopsticks made a good tool for doing this. :-)

All-in-all, though, I was quite happy with the result.

But, I wouldn't leave well enough alone.

I decided I really wanted a tinned board. So, I picked up some
plumber solder paste at the local hardware store.

Except they didn't have the lead-based "Solder-It" brand. Instead,
they had some Silver-based stuff. It is called "Flo-Temp" Lead-free
instant Plumbing solder***. By Alpha Metals.

Anyway, I spread on a thin layer using a chopstick. Well, not thin
enough I think. I then hit it with the hot air gun (part of my SMD
soldering station.) I watched it go through all the transitions that
Stefan recounted. It seemed to be doing pretty much what I wanted.
(It was fun watching the image of the board re-emerge as the stuff
heated, melted, and grabbed onto the copper leaving the etched areas
free.)

But I wasn't pleased with how it looked. There was too much solder
blobbed up on most of the board (some parts were OK...just at the
edges...where I had probably accidently laid down less.) So I tried
Stefan's suggested method for removing the excess. With a paper
towel. Except, it didn't really want to come off. I used a slightly
damp paper towel, btw. I shot the board again with the hot air gun -
just before applying the towel. I suspect the wet towel might have
cooled the board, I mean the solder, off too quickly, so it froze in
place, instead of wiping aside.

Any hints as to what to do next? On certain parts of the board, it
looks tantilizingly like a professional job, with just the thinnest
coating of silver barely hiding the copper. But most of the board
looks like hell.

At least there aren't any (or many) shorts. So, although its ugly, it
should work.

Should I try throwing it in the over to get even heat, and then a
swipe with a dry paper towel? It is a little hard getting the solder
across the whole board to be shiny, at the same time, with the hot air
gun. I have a little toaster oven which is destined someday to be a
reflow oven...but right now it hasn't any temperature regulation other
than what it came with. Should I just set the oven to 450, wait for
it to reflow, and then wipe off the excess?

Or should I quit while I'm ahead...before I screw it up further...and
over heat it so I pull up a trace? Nah...full speed ahead. Tomorrow
I'll fire up that toaster oven.

Jim

*well, actually just a bit faster. Obviously with a 1.5 hour etch
time, this wasn't going anywhere fast.

**Actually, I think there was one other thing working against me. I
am not certain that I cleaned the Pulsar papers "glue" off of the
board completely enough before etching. Their procedure is to wipe
the board once with the "depleted" paper after making the transfer,
and then rinse under running water. I am not sure, but I thought I saw
some residue still on the board. But, I figured it would come off in
the bath. Finally, perhaps the etchant is old? I cannot remember how
many years ago I purchased it. I am not clear on its shelf life.

***It says it melts at 430F. Regular lead-tin solder melts at 370F.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Successful TT with Pulsar paper. Tinning "mishap" with Plumbers paste.

2006-05-15 by Lez

Imagine wiping the board with a window squeegee, but instead of one of
thouse use a pice of thin wood, it wont cool the solder, and it wont
stick or melt.

I often use a toothpick to clear out holes after desoldering a
component to change.






Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 15/05/06, jzmuda2000 <hwhacker@...> wrote:
> I just now made up a simple single-sided circuit board with 12 mil
> tracks and 14mil spacing. Its all SMD. (Except for the DB-9 and 10-
> pin header.)
>
> I used the Dyna-Art paper. (They are called Pulsar, now.) Needless to
> say, this stuff has been sitting around on my shelf un-noticed for too
> long. But, I figured I should give TT a try for this small board
> (since I don't have any of the other method like EDM or CNC milling
> working - yet.)
>
> Anyway, the short of it is - the TT process went well. I used an
> ancient HP-5L with a real HP C3906A toner cartridge. I cleaned the
> board rather thoroughly with Comet and steel wool. I used moderate
> pressure on an iron for 5 minutes. (The Pulsar instructions say 3
> minutes - but that didn't work.) All the toner ended up on the
> copper.
>
> I etched with Sodium Persulfate (it goes from clear to light blue,
> letting you easily monitor the process.) I used an aquarium bubbler in
> a shallow tank made from a small tupperware dish. I had the board
> horizontal the whole time. Not a good idea. The etching process took
> over 1.5 hours. Instead of the 0.5 indicated on the Sodium
> Persulfate. A couple of things might have worked against me. I had
> started with a rather hot etchant bath (kitchen tap water warm) but
> with the large flat surface, it quickly cooled. I was being stingy
> with the etchant...but it would be more effective I think to etch with
> the board held vertically in a thin tank, rather than horizontally in
> a shallow tank. Even with the bubbler, it was clear that the agitation
> was incomplete. Since the copper nearest the bubbler etched much*
> faster that the copper elsewhere. I ended up having to change the
> orientation of the board several times during the etching process.
> Disposable chopsticks made a good tool for doing this. :-)
>
> All-in-all, though, I was quite happy with the result.
>
> But, I wouldn't leave well enough alone.
>
> I decided I really wanted a tinned board. So, I picked up some
> plumber solder paste at the local hardware store.
>
> Except they didn't have the lead-based "Solder-It" brand. Instead,
> they had some Silver-based stuff. It is called "Flo-Temp" Lead-free
> instant Plumbing solder***. By Alpha Metals.
>
> Anyway, I spread on a thin layer using a chopstick. Well, not thin
> enough I think. I then hit it with the hot air gun (part of my SMD
> soldering station.) I watched it go through all the transitions that
> Stefan recounted. It seemed to be doing pretty much what I wanted.
> (It was fun watching the image of the board re-emerge as the stuff
> heated, melted, and grabbed onto the copper leaving the etched areas
> free.)
>
> But I wasn't pleased with how it looked. There was too much solder
> blobbed up on most of the board (some parts were OK...just at the
> edges...where I had probably accidently laid down less.) So I tried
> Stefan's suggested method for removing the excess. With a paper
> towel. Except, it didn't really want to come off. I used a slightly
> damp paper towel, btw. I shot the board again with the hot air gun -
> just before applying the towel. I suspect the wet towel might have
> cooled the board, I mean the solder, off too quickly, so it froze in
> place, instead of wiping aside.
>
> Any hints as to what to do next? On certain parts of the board, it
> looks tantilizingly like a professional job, with just the thinnest
> coating of silver barely hiding the copper. But most of the board
> looks like hell.
>
> At least there aren't any (or many) shorts. So, although its ugly, it
> should work.
>
> Should I try throwing it in the over to get even heat, and then a
> swipe with a dry paper towel? It is a little hard getting the solder
> across the whole board to be shiny, at the same time, with the hot air
> gun. I have a little toaster oven which is destined someday to be a
> reflow oven...but right now it hasn't any temperature regulation other
> than what it came with. Should I just set the oven to 450, wait for
> it to reflow, and then wipe off the excess?
>
> Or should I quit while I'm ahead...before I screw it up further...and
> over heat it so I pull up a trace? Nah...full speed ahead. Tomorrow
> I'll fire up that toaster oven.
>
> Jim
>
> *well, actually just a bit faster. Obviously with a 1.5 hour etch
> time, this wasn't going anywhere fast.
>
> **Actually, I think there was one other thing working against me. I
> am not certain that I cleaned the Pulsar papers "glue" off of the
> board completely enough before etching. Their procedure is to wipe
> the board once with the "depleted" paper after making the transfer,
> and then rinse under running water. I am not sure, but I thought I saw
> some residue still on the board. But, I figured it would come off in
> the bath. Finally, perhaps the etchant is old? I cannot remember how
> many years ago I purchased it. I am not clear on its shelf life.
>
> ***It says it melts at 430F. Regular lead-tin solder melts at 370F.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--



Lez

- Looking for early starwars (episode 4, original starwars)
recordings, even pirate
-
- I dont need your originals just some information about running time
- and scene cut points
-
-
- also looking for a car, silver or white, 4 doors -
- diesel with a bosch pump, abs and pas -
- aircon would be nice, and not a ford -

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Successful TT with Pulsar paper. Tinning "mishap" with Plumbers paste.

2006-05-15 by Stefan Trethan

On Mon, 15 May 2006 09:30:56 +0200, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>>
>> But I wasn't pleased with how it looked. There was too much solder
>> blobbed up on most of the board (some parts were OK...just at the
>> edges...where I had probably accidently laid down less.) So I tried
>> Stefan's suggested method for removing the excess. With a paper
>> towel. Except, it didn't really want to come off. I used a slightly
>> damp paper towel, btw. I shot the board again with the hot air gun -
>> just before applying the towel. I suspect the wet towel might have
>> cooled the board, I mean the solder, off too quickly, so it froze in
>> place, instead of wiping aside.


You heated too much. The strange thin layer happens before the paste
reflows.
I don't know how this works though.

ST

Re: Successful TT with Pulsar paper. Tinning "mishap" with Plumbers paste.

2006-05-15 by jzmuda2000

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 15 May 2006 09:30:56 +0200, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >>
> >> But I wasn't pleased with how it looked. There was too much
solder
> >> blobbed up on most of the board (some parts were OK...just at
the
> >> edges...where I had probably accidently laid down less.) So I
tried
> >> Stefan's suggested method for removing the excess. With a paper
> >> towel. Except, it didn't really want to come off. I used a
slightly
> >> damp paper towel, btw. I shot the board again with the hot air
gun -
> >> just before applying the towel. I suspect the wet towel might
have
> >> cooled the board, I mean the solder, off too quickly, so it
froze in
> >> place, instead of wiping aside.
>
>
> You heated too much. The strange thin layer happens before the
paste
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> reflows.
> I don't know how this works though.
>
> ST
>

That makes sense.

I should have read your instructions more carefully.

Thanks.

Jim

P.S. For now, I will have to come up with some sort of hard squeegee
and scrap away the excess solder (now minus any flux). I hope I
don't pull up a trace. I will try my technique out on one of the
ample ground planes I have in place....before I try it on the traces
and pads.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Successful TT with Pulsar paper. Tinning "mishap" with Plumbers paste.

2006-05-15 by Stefan Trethan

On Mon, 15 May 2006 23:58:38 +0200, jzmuda2000 <hwhacker@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> P.S. For now, I will have to come up with some sort of hard squeegee
> and scrap away the excess solder (now minus any flux). I hope I
> don't pull up a trace. I will try my technique out on one of the
> ample ground planes I have in place....before I try it on the traces
> and pads.


You can wipe it off with a balled up paper towel. Watch burn danger and
watch smoke!

ST

Re: Successful TT with Pulsar paper. Tinning "mishap" with Plumbers paste.

2006-05-16 by jzmuda2000

Stefan,

My attempt to wipe off the excess did not go well.

Apparently once the Solder Balls & Flux have melted (and burned off
the Flux) they really don't want to go any where.

Luckily, I was just experimenting with a portion of this small board.

All I managed to do was to create a bunch of solder bridges.

So, after I removed them all with a razor blade, I decided to stop
while I am ahead. The board is functional. I am going to go ahead
and solder components to it, and be done with it.

But, in order to benefit from what I have learned, and have it
burned into memory...I am going to start all over again. With a
fresh board. And make a second, identical circuit. And this time, I
will:

1. etch with the board held vertically. And with a better bubbler
running across the ful length of the board.
2. Be sure to wipe off the excess solder paste...while it is STILL
in its grey-colored state (BEFORE it has turned into solder.)

Hmmm...maybe I will wait on populting that first board...:-)

Jim

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 15 May 2006 23:58:38 +0200, jzmuda2000 <hwhacker@...>
wrote:
>
> >
> > P.S. For now, I will have to come up with some sort of hard
squeegee
> > and scrap away the excess solder (now minus any flux). I hope I
> > don't pull up a trace. I will try my technique out on one of the
> > ample ground planes I have in place....before I try it on the
traces
> > and pads.
>
>
> You can wipe it off with a balled up paper towel. Watch burn
danger and
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> watch smoke!
>
> ST
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Successful TT with Pulsar paper. Tinning "mishap" with Plumbers paste.

2006-05-17 by Herbert E. Plett

...
> I used the Dyna-Art paper. (They are called Pulsar, now.) Needless to
> say, this stuff has been sitting around on my shelf un-noticed for too
> long. But, I figured I should give TT a try for this small board
> (since I don't have any of the other method like EDM or CNC milling
> working - yet.)

paper works as good and is less expensive, but you already had it :)

>...and steel wool.

bad idea

>... I used moderate pressure on an iron for 5 minutes.

it's not a matter of minutes, more likely a too cold iron. you only need to
heat all up to the right temperature and 'rub' the complicated parts to ensure
good adherence. one minute or a little more should suffice

>... The etching process took over 1.5 hours.

with ferric cloride (dirty ugly stuff) at room temperature it shouldn't take
more than five minutes for a small board.
make a 'cotton swab' with a chopstick (some 1/2"x3/4" size). hold the board
vertical on a shallow plasic tray (etchant 3/8" deep) and wipe (rub softly)
with plenty etchant until you see the bare board appear, then turn it upside
down and do the rest (you first did the lower half)
easy - fast (very fast). no bubbling, no heat, no mess, no overetching...
you will quickly find out when etching takes too long (stops) and you need to
renew the exhausted etchant.

> ... I shot the board again with the hot air gun -
> just before applying the towel. I suspect the wet towel might have
> cooled the board, I mean the solder, off too quickly, so it froze in
> place, instead of wiping aside.
>
> Any hints as to what to do next?

slam the edge of the board on a hard surface while hot...
repeat on each of the four edges.




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com