Homebrew_PCBs

Hi,

I've been trying to make my first PC boards using a Samsung ML-2010 laser
printer and Staples basic photo paper. When I print the pattern on plain
paper and examine it under the magnifier, the traces come out very crisp and
clear but when I print them on the photo paper they come out looking kind on
ragged and rough on the edges. And of course that's what they look like on
the board. I'm assuming that this is a problem with the Staples paper. Can
anyone suggest a different paper to try with this printer? I've already
found out that I must use only an official Samsung toner cartridge and not a
3rd party or rebuilt cartridge to save some money. The quality is greatly
inferior for PC boards. Now if I can just find the best paper to use I'll
be ready for the next step.

Thanks,

Mark



_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mark,
I'm not familiar with the Samsung ML-2010, but if it's a fairly new
printer it could be using a toner that requires more fuser heat to
funtion, as does my Brother HL-2040 (info provided to me by the tech
support folks for Press-n-Peel Blue). Their recommendation was to
therefore produce more heat while ironing onto the PCB.

Ted

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Mickelsen"
<mark.mickelsen@...> wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I've been trying to make my first PC boards using a Samsung ML-2010

laser

> printer and Staples basic photo paper. When I print the pattern on

plain

> paper and examine it under the magnifier, the traces come out very

crisp and

> clear but when I print them on the photo paper they come out looking

kind on

> ragged and rough on the edges. And of course that's what they look

like on

> the board. I'm assuming that this is a problem with the Staples

paper. Can

> anyone suggest a different paper to try with this printer? I've already
> found out that I must use only an official Samsung toner cartridge

and not a

> 3rd party or rebuilt cartridge to save some money. The quality is

greatly

> inferior for PC boards. Now if I can just find the best paper to

use I'll

> be ready for the next step.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark

---snip---

I have the exact same printer, just bought it a few weeks ago
explicitly for the purposes of toner transfer (and it was dirt cheap).
My first attempt failed, but it had nothing to do with the printer.
All the instructions floating around say to stick the hot board into a
cold or warm water bath immediately. I found that when I do this, the
paper bubbles and pulls the toner off of the board while it's still
soft. On my second and subsequent attempts, I allowed the board to
cool for a couple of minutes before putting it in the water and it
worked perfectly. Every board I've made since the first has come out
great. I have tried several photo papers, and while I'm confident
that the staples brand should work (based on other peoples
experiences), I've been using Canon Photo Paper Pro. It's one of the
most expensive photo papers around, I use it for high quality photo
prints, but it works great for toner transfer too. The 4x6 sheets run
about 40-50 cents a piece though. I tried Kodak paper, but the toner
doesn't stick well to it, you get ghosting from the fuser roller.

Tips:

Acetone works great for removing toner from Copper (handy after etching).
A stiff bristle scrub brush works great for removing paper residue
from boards during the "soaking phase." A toothbrush gets in-between
traces well.
Always run the tip of the iron along your traces at some point during
the ironing.

Good luck!

> All the instructions floating around say to stick the hot board into a
> cold or warm water bath immediately. I found that when I do this, the
> paper bubbles and pulls the toner off of the board while it's still

No the board contracts fast and the paper does not.....
Thats what was happening to me, but instead of a bubble I was getting
corners popping up.

> about 40-50 cents a piece though. I tried Kodak paper, but the toner
> doesn't stick well to it, you get ghosting from the fuser roller.

Yes I was using kodak, I got the toner to stick very well to the
board, and the paper, but the 'gloss' from the paper was sticking big
time to the board etc and if you tried to peel it off it brought the
toner with it.

I think the summation of this is kodak paper is brilliant, but useless
for toner transfer.....

I have a pack of the 4x6 Canon paper, and I'll give it a try with the
Brother. I tried Epson Glossy Inkjet paper, and it did leave the
paper surface beteewn the tracks; otherwiae not too bad.

Ted

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "thomascouey" <tcouey@...> wrote:
>
> I have the exact same printer, just bought it a few weeks ago
> explicitly for the purposes of toner transfer (and it was dirt cheap).
> My first attempt failed, but it had nothing to do with the printer.
> All the instructions floating around say to stick the hot board into a
> cold or warm water bath immediately. I found that when I do this, the
> paper bubbles and pulls the toner off of the board while it's still
> soft. On my second and subsequent attempts, I allowed the board to
> cool for a couple of minutes before putting it in the water and it
> worked perfectly. Every board I've made since the first has come out
> great. I have tried several photo papers, and while I'm confident
> that the staples brand should work (based on other peoples
> experiences), I've been using Canon Photo Paper Pro. It's one of the
> most expensive photo papers around, I use it for high quality photo
> prints, but it works great for toner transfer too. The 4x6 sheets run
> about 40-50 cents a piece though.

---snip---

A sponge really works good for cleaning up the paper residue. Being
soft, it does grab the wet paper, yet does not abrade away the
toner.

Chris



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kilocycles" <kilocycles@...>
wrote:

>
> I have a pack of the 4x6 Canon paper, and I'll give it a try with

the

> Brother. I tried Epson Glossy Inkjet paper, and it did leave the
> paper surface beteewn the tracks; otherwiae not too bad.
>
> Ted
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "thomascouey" <tcouey@>

wrote:

> >
> > I have the exact same printer, just bought it a few weeks ago
> > explicitly for the purposes of toner transfer (and it was dirt

cheap).

> > My first attempt failed, but it had nothing to do with the

printer.

> > All the instructions floating around say to stick the hot board

into a

> > cold or warm water bath immediately. I found that when I do

this, the

> > paper bubbles and pulls the toner off of the board while it's

still

> > soft. On my second and subsequent attempts, I allowed the board

to

> > cool for a couple of minutes before putting it in the water and

it

> > worked perfectly. Every board I've made since the first has

come out

> > great. I have tried several photo papers, and while I'm

confident

> > that the staples brand should work (based on other peoples
> > experiences), I've been using Canon Photo Paper Pro. It's one

of the

> > most expensive photo papers around, I use it for high quality

photo

> > prints, but it works great for toner transfer too. The 4x6

sheets run

> > about 40-50 cents a piece though.
>
> ---snip---
>

Might I recommend that you pick up a pack of blank 4x6 note
cards/index cards. They work great for test prints (just to make sure
you have the alignment and scaling correct).

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kilocycles" <kilocycles@...> wrote:
>
> I have a pack of the 4x6 Canon paper, and I'll give it a try with the
> Brother. I tried Epson Glossy Inkjet paper, and it did leave the
> paper surface beteewn the tracks; otherwiae not too bad.
>