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2006-04-21 by patroclus04
I just bought a new HP laserjet 1022, 1200x1200dpi. Using "transparency" option, darkest setting, and best resolution, using a generic transparency sheet (shiny on both sides), I get lots of pinholes, and some holes that are bigger. I could repair them with permanent pen, but I need to do some TSOP boards and I can't allow this results... so tiny tracks. Waht could I do? Is this normal? Any paper recomended? thanks!
2006-04-21 by Leon Heller
----- Original Message -----
From: "patroclus04" <patroclus04@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 10:33 PM Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] LaserJet 1022 >I just bought a new HP laserjet 1022, 1200x1200dpi. > Using "transparency" option, darkest setting, and best resolution, > using a generic transparency sheet (shiny on both sides), I get lots > of pinholes, and some holes that are bigger. I could repair them with > permanent pen, but I need to do some TSOP boards and I can't allow > this results... so tiny tracks. > > Waht could I do? Is this normal? Any paper recomended? > thanks! You might get better results with the Mega Electronics LaserStar film. I used to use tracing paper, it worked nearly as well as the LaserStar and is much cheaper. As it is very thin it needs sticking to an ordinary sheet of paper. Leon --- [This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are currently using to read this email. ]
2006-04-22 by patroclus04
Tracing paper really works? I mean, if I understand, tracing paper is not transparent, but a very thin sheet of paper you use to trace over another sheet. do they work well? Does UV light pass trough?
2006-04-22 by Leon Heller
----- Original Message -----
From: "patroclus04" <patroclus04@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 11:49 AM Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: LaserJet 1022 > > Tracing paper really works? > I mean, if I understand, tracing paper is not transparent, but a very > thin sheet of paper you use to trace over another sheet. > do they work well? Does UV light pass trough? It's quite transparent to UV, I used the same exposure as for transparent film. Leon
2006-04-22 by derekhawkins
>I get lots >of pinholes, and some holes that are bigger. Google >3m laser transparency pcb< --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "patroclus04" <patroclus04@...> wrote: >
2006-04-22 by patroclus04
Ok, I'll try tracing paper, and see how it comes. I've seen some webs recomending 3M transparencies, but I was not sure if using them I would get much better results, as I already tried with a standar transparency film. Maybe some films are just much better than others??
2006-04-22 by Stefan Trethan
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 19:48:44 +0200, patroclus04 <patroclus04@...> wrote: > Ok, I'll try tracing paper, and see how it comes. > > I've seen some webs recomending 3M transparencies, but I was not sure > > if using them I would get much better results, as I already tried with > > a standar transparency film. Maybe some films are just much better > > than others?? > There are large differences it seems, but the transparencies i tried turned all out badly. Transparencies are tricky to print on. ST
2006-04-22 by Steve
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "derekhawkins" <eldata@...> wrote: > > >I get lots > >of pinholes, and some holes that are bigger. > > Google >3m laser transparency pcb< > Screenprinters use vellum rather than transparencies. There's an ad every month in one of the apparel magazines I get for a vellum that is just for photoexposure use, it does not contain the optical brighteners that most vellum contains that tends to block UV. I'll see if I can dig up an issue. Or check screenprinters.net for suggestions. That's also where I found the tip about using inkjet colors other than black. Steve Greenfield
2006-04-22 by fenrir_co
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "patroclus04" <patroclus04@...> wrote: > > > Tracing paper really works? > I mean, if I understand, tracing paper is not transparent, but a > very > thin sheet of paper you use to trace over another sheet. > do they work well? Does UV light pass trough? I've seen several comments online that you can even use regular printer paper to develop photosensitive boards. I would suggest trying to find some printable vellum - Office Depot has a Strathmore brand one that's for both inkjet and laser. I believe Staples has stopped carrying it and only has their own brand safe for inkjet (which would probably work nicely with a pigment printer). Vellum is like a 'fancy' tracing paper that's strong enough to be used on its own.
2006-04-22 by Stefan Trethan
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 22:00:36 +0200, fenrir_co <fenrir@...> wrote: > I've seen several comments online that you can even use regular > > printer paper to develop photosensitive boards. I would suggest trying > > to find some printable vellum - Office Depot has a Strathmore brand > > one that's for both inkjet and laser. I believe Staples has stopped > > carrying it and only has their own brand safe for inkjet (which would > > probably work nicely with a pigment printer). Vellum is like a 'fancy' > > tracing paper that's strong enough to be used on its own. > There's a spray to make the paper more transparent. What a nightmare. That's basically what i found most annoying about the photo process - the priniting problem. ST
2006-04-22 by Leon Heller
----- Original Message -----
From: "fenrir_co" <fenrir@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 9:00 PM Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: LaserJet 1022 > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "patroclus04" <patroclus04@...> > wrote: >> >> >> Tracing paper really works? >> I mean, if I understand, tracing paper is not transparent, but a >> very >> thin sheet of paper you use to trace over another sheet. >> do they work well? Does UV light pass trough? > > I've seen several comments online that you can even use regular > printer paper to develop photosensitive boards. I would suggest trying > to find some printable vellum - Office Depot has a Strathmore brand > one that's for both inkjet and laser. I believe Staples has stopped > carrying it and only has their own brand safe for inkjet (which would > probably work nicely with a pigment printer). Vellum is like a 'fancy' > tracing paper that's strong enough to be used on its own. Vellum sounds like draughting film. They had lots of it where I worked some years ago, it was very good when I tried it in a laser printer. Leon --- [This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are currently using to read this email. ]
2006-04-22 by Leon Heller
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: LaserJet 1022 > On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 22:00:36 +0200, fenrir_co <fenrir@...> > wrote: > > > > There's a spray to make the paper more transparent. Cooking oil works quite well, but it's a bit messy. Leon --- [This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are currently using to read this email. ]
2006-04-22 by derekhawkins
>Maybe some films are just much better >than others?? Like night vs day. The very worst laser transparencies I've come across were from HP when used on their own printers. The very best was Staples SL5262 (don't know who makes it for them) followed by 3M. All history for me, using inkjet artwork these days. --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "patroclus04" <patroclus04@...> wrote: >
2006-04-22 by Zoran A. Scepanovic
Hi Stefi, Saturday, April 22, 2006, 10:15:37 PM, you wrote: <snip> > There's a spray to make the paper more transparent. > What a nightmare. > That's basically what i found most annoying about the photo process - the > priniting problem. > ST Spray is knowh as PausKlaar (sorry no um... on my keyboard). Still, with my monthly erarnings, a price of 7.5 EUR per meter of 355mm graphic film at the prepress office, I can afford to wait for the PCB's to be produced in 2 to 3 hours. For twiddling with LJ's and other stuff, time is money, and I don't have enough time. It's nice that the lot folks are using TT, but second hand LJIII here still costs a lot, and bulk tonner is an ordinary s***t. For realy urgent stuff, I print the velum on mu oldie Fujitsu PrintPartner 10V (with the tonner above mentioned), exposing the vellum to PVC diluent vapours for approx 5 minutes, letting the diluent to dry (using forced air heather if necessary) and then transferring the artwork to the presentisized boards using the UV lamps (photos in the Files section of this Group), and then etch in HCL+H2O2 solution. This procedure saves me TIME and is keeping my nerves COOL. Works straigh 'from the box' no twiddlies, twaddlies or whatsoever. Further comments on Priv.Mail - Please -- Best regards, Zoran A. Scepanovic zastos@... ********* Any inanimate object, regardless of its position, configuration or purpose, may be expected to perform at any time in a totally unexpected manner for reasons that are either entirely obscure or else completely mysterious ********* Please be advised what was said may be absolutely wrong, and hereby this disclaimer follows. I reserve the right to be wrong and admit it in front of the entire world. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-04-22 by Stefan Trethan
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 23:04:55 +0200, Zoran A. Scepanovic <zastos@...> wrote: > Spray is knowh as PausKlaar (sorry no um... on my keyboard). Still, > > with my monthly erarnings, a price of 7.5 EUR per meter of 355mm > > graphic film at the prepress office, I can afford to wait for the > > PCB's to be produced in 2 to 3 hours. For twiddling with LJ's and > > other stuff, time is money, and I don't have enough time. You don't need any um... for writing Pausklar, which is what it is called here. It's a great label remover. Spray it on, wait a minute, and the label and glue peels right off. Using it for exposing PCBs never produced good results for me. > It's nice that the lot folks are using TT, but second hand LJIII here > still costs a lot, and bulk tonner is an ordinary s***t. I dunno where you live, but a laser printer is not that much more expensive than a inkjet. Remanufactured toner didn't work out for me either, but others report good results with non-original toners. LJIIIs can be bought at ebay for less than 10eur here. > For realy urgent stuff, I print the velum on mu oldie Fujitsu > PrintPartner 10V (with the tonner above mentioned), exposing the > > vellum to PVC diluent vapours for approx 5 minutes, letting the > > diluent to dry (using forced air heather if necessary) and then > > transferring the artwork to the presentisized boards using the UV > > lamps (photos in the Files section of this Group), and then etch in > > HCL+H2O2 solution. This procedure saves me TIME and is keeping my > > nerves COOL. Works straigh 'from the box' no twiddlies, twaddlies or > > whatsoever. Yes, i have heard about the "solvent vapor" trick, i want to try for ages to see for myself what happens... ST
2006-04-22 by Zoran A. Scepanovic
Hello Stefan, Saturday, April 22, 2006, 11:14:00 PM, you wrote: > On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 23:04:55 +0200, Zoran A. Scepanovic <zastos@...> > wrote: >> Spray is knowh as PausKlaar (sorry no um... on my keyboard). Still, >> >> with my monthly erarnings, a price of 7.5 EUR per meter of 355mm >> >> graphic film at the prepress office, I can afford to wait for the >> >> PCB's to be produced in 2 to 3 hours. For twiddling with LJ's and >> >> other stuff, time is money, and I don't have enough time. > You don't need any um... for writing Pausklar, which is what it is called > here. > It's a great label remover. Spray it on, wait a minute, and the label and > glue peels right off. > Using it for exposing PCBs never produced good results for me. >> It's nice that the lot folks are using TT, but second hand LJIII here >> still costs a lot, and bulk tonner is an ordinary s***t. > I dunno where you live, but a laser printer is not that much more > expensive than a inkjet. Remanufactured toner didn't work out for me > either, but others report good results with non-original toners. LJIIIs > can be bought at ebay for less than 10eur here. >> For realy urgent stuff, I print the velum on mu oldie Fujitsu >> PrintPartner 10V (with the tonner above mentioned), exposing the >> >> vellum to PVC diluent vapours for approx 5 minutes, letting the >> >> diluent to dry (using forced air heather if necessary) and then >> >> transferring the artwork to the presentisized boards using the UV >> >> lamps (photos in the Files section of this Group), and then etch in >> >> HCL+H2O2 solution. This procedure saves me TIME and is keeping my >> >> nerves COOL. Works straigh 'from the box' no twiddlies, twaddlies or >> >> whatsoever. > Yes, i have heard about the "solvent vapor" trick, i want to try for ages > to see for myself what happens... > ST > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > Yahoo! Groups Links As you are On-Linr at the moment (sorry rest of the Group) you can contact me via Yahoo Messenger (zastoyu) or Skype (zastosr) or ICQ (8-712-400) to discuss more - will be on-line till 00:00) -- Best regards, Zoran A. Scepanovic zastos@... ********* The amount of expertise varies in inverse ratio to the number of statements understood by the general public. ********* Please be advised what was said may be absolutely wrong, and hereby this disclaimer follows. I reserve the right to be wrong and admit it in front of the entire world. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-04-22 by Stefan Trethan
I don't really plan to do that, but thanks anyway. ST On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 23:29:36 +0200, Zoran A. Scepanovic <zastos@...> wrote:
> > > > > > > As you are On-Linr at the moment (sorry rest of the Group) you can > > contact me via Yahoo Messenger (zastoyu) or Skype (zastosr) or ICQ > > (8-712-400) to discuss more - will be on-line till 00:00) >
2006-04-22 by patroclus04
> > There are large differences it seems, but the transparencies i tried > turned all out badly. > Transparencies are tricky to print on. > > ST > So, you use tracing paper? the problem I find is it to be very thin so it is hard to reuse it
2006-04-22 by patroclus04
I didn't understand... maybe is just a languaje issue. What is vellum? I did not get that about the vapour trick.. sound TOO messy. Getting it easy, Tracing paper? 3M transparency? What confuses me is hearing that transparencies are tricky to print. I really thought it was pretty easy, but I see it is not as it seems...
2006-04-23 by Leon Heller
----- Original Message -----
From: "patroclus04" <patroclus04@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 11:09 PM Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: LaserJet 1022 > > I didn't understand... maybe is just a languaje issue. > What is vellum? I did not get that about the vapour trick.. sound TOO > messy. The solvent vapour makes the image denser and helps to remove pinholes, by dissolving some of the plastic in the toner. > > Getting it easy, > Tracing paper? > 3M transparency? > > What confuses me is hearing that transparencies are tricky to print. I > really thought it was pretty easy, but I see it is not as it seems... If the correct material is used, like tracing paper or LaserStar film, it's very easy. Leon --- [This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are currently using to read this email. ]
2006-04-23 by Steve
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "patroclus04" <patroclus04@...> wrote: > > > I didn't understand... maybe is just a languaje issue. > What is vellum? I did not get that about the vapour trick.. sound TOO > messy. Vellum, as someone else mentioned, is used as drafting paper. It is kind of a translucent paper. I think it is usually cotton paper rather than wood pulp. It also is used a lot for wedding invitations in the US. Do a Google search for vellum paper (that is the correct spelling). Laser toner seems to work a lot better on it than on many transparency films. Steve Greenfield
2006-04-23 by fenrir_co
> > Vellum, as someone else mentioned, is used as drafting paper. It is > kind of a translucent paper. I think it is usually cotton paper > rather > than wood pulp. > > It also is used a lot for wedding invitations in the US. > > Do a Google search for vellum paper (that is the correct spelling). > Laser toner seems to work a lot better on it than on many > transparency > films. > > Steve Greenfield It's like tracing paper, but a heavier weight while still being transparent. I've seen business cards printed on /card/ thickness paper that's still transparent like vellum, but I've never seen it for sale on its own. If you search, don't get drafting vellum paper mixed up with 'real' vellum, the term originally being used for specially treated animal hides used to create illuminated (gilded) calligraphy manuscripts. Animal hide vellum is rare and expensive these days.
2006-04-23 by derekhawkins
>If you search, don't get drafting vellum paper mixed up with 'real' >vellum It's quite easy to get in the US. Arts supply stores sell it along with others. One can Froogle >translucent vellum paper<. I bought some from Pearl Paint several years ago but several sheets had pin holes. I would have to hold each sheet up to the light and inspect it before printing. Quickly gave up on that. --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fenrir_co" <fenrir@...> wrote: >
2006-04-23 by Leon Heller
----- Original Message -----
From: "derekhawkins" <eldata@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 1:23 PM Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: LaserJet 1022 > >If you search, don't get drafting vellum paper mixed up with 'real' >>vellum > > It's quite easy to get in the US. Arts supply stores sell it along > with others. One can Froogle >translucent vellum paper<. > > I bought some from Pearl Paint several years ago but several sheets > had pin holes. I would have to hold each sheet up to the light and > inspect it before printing. Quickly gave up on that. Draughting film is some sort of plastic, it doesn't look as if it's the same thing as vellum. It's quite expensive. Leon --- [This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are currently using to read this email. ]
2006-04-23 by derekhawkins
>Draughting film is some sort of plastic Agreed, but drafting vellum (aka drafting paper) is not. >It's quite expensive. Agreed, but drafting vellum is relatively cheap. --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Heller" <leon.heller@...> wrote: >