Homebrew PCBs

Steve,

I have several bottles of 'Cartridge Flush' from ink refill kits.

JetTec, R9
Ref: 5593 JS AF
http://www.jettec.com/cleaningfluid.asp

Do you see any harm in pouring that into my black cartridge?

Then I'd be able to do a cleaning cycle to test the vaccum.  I could even
'spray paint' a test page to see if the nozzles are clogged.

Robert
:)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, Steve is offlist so I'm going to take a chance and see what happens.
Here I go!

(insert "Braveheart" battlecry here...)

Robert
:D


-----Message d'origine-----
De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De
la part de Robert Hedan
Envoyé : avril 18 2006 16:24
À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Objet : [Homebrew_PCBs] STEVE: Cartridge flush


Steve,

I have several bottles of 'Cartridge Flush' from ink refill kits.

JetTec, R9
Ref: 5593 JS AF
http://www.jettec.com/cleaningfluid.asp

Do you see any harm in pouring that into my black cartridge?

Then I'd be able to do a cleaning cycle to test the vaccum.  I could even
'spray paint' a test page to see if the nozzles are clogged.

Robert
:)

Sucks!

The cartridge drips all over the place when I slightly shake it, liquid is
pouring out the top and bottom and it continues to say INK OUT.

I don't understand.  I tried everything in the SSC utility to get the
printer going, no can do.  The cartridge is full of cleaner mixed with black
ink, SOMETHING should print, even if it's a blurry mess, anything, even if
it looks like that ink blob used by psychologists.  But no, the printer sees
it as completely empty even if the stub is totally wet.

<there is no ink here, move along folks!>

I'm out of ideas at this point.

Robert
:(


-----Message d'origine-----
De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De
la part de Robert Hedan
Envoyé : avril 18 2006 18:59
À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Objet : [Homebrew_PCBs] RE: STEVE: Cartridge flush


Well, Steve is offlist so I'm going to take a chance and see what happens.
Here I go!

(insert "Braveheart" battlecry here...)

Robert
:D

>I tried everything in the SSC utility to get the
>printer going, no can do.

From the SSC web site;

================================
Epson Stylus C83 / C84 **

** - NOTE! It is impossible to reset ink counters by software methods 
on this printers.
================================


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Robert Hedan <robert.hedan@...> 
wrote:
>

SSC reports black inkshots at 15,790.

The cartridge is NOT empty, liquid is pouring freely when I lift it.

If the counter would be at an even number like 15,000 or 16,000, then I
would think software limit, but it's at an odd number.  So I don't
understand why it's not taking the ink, the stub is REALLY wet now.  Unless
the limit was 15,000, and the software let the printer go on for a 'warning
period' with lights flashing and pop-up alerts kind of thing for the last
790 inkshots (these are inkshots, so 790 might only be 1 full page
photograph or a few pages of text, who knows).

Also, the girl said the cartridge was 95% full.  She didn't understand why
it was empty, she had done a print test before putting up on EBay.  She is
sending me my money back anyways, so that ain't bad.

That, and I'm going to send the serial number to that Epson group claim and
see what happens.

Robert
:)



-----Message d'origine-----
De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De
la part de derekhawkins
Envoyé : avril 18 2006 20:33
À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Objet : [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: STEVE: Cartridge flush - results

From the SSC web site;

================================
Epson Stylus C83 / C84 **

** - NOTE! It is impossible to reset ink counters by software methods 
on this printers.
================================

>The cartridge is NOT empty

What does the Epson status monitor say? 

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Robert Hedan <robert.hedan@...> 
wrote:
>

INK OUT

Black cartridge is yada yada yada....

Robert
:)



-----Message d'origine-----
De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De
la part de derekhawkins
Envoyé : avril 18 2006 21:01
À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Objet : [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: STEVE: Cartridge flush - results

What does the Epson status monitor say?

>INK OUT

Well, that's what the Epson class action suite is all about. You can't 
do nothing even though there's ink (in this case something) in the 
cartridge.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Robert Hedan <robert.hedan@...> 
wrote:
>

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Robert Hedan 
> <robert.hedan@...> 
> wrote:
>
> Sucks!
> 
> The cartridge drips all over the place when I slightly shake it, 
> liquid is
> pouring out the top and bottom and it continues to say INK OUT.
> 
> I don't understand.  I tried everything in the SSC utility to get 
> the
> printer going, no can do.  The cartridge is full of cleaner mixed 
> with black
> ink, SOMETHING should print, even if it's a blurry mess, anything, 
> even if
> it looks like that ink blob used by psychologists.  But no, the 
> printer sees
> it as completely empty even if the stub is totally wet.
> 
> <there is no ink here, move along folks!>
> 
> I'm out of ideas at this point.
> 
> Robert
> :(

As was already mentioned, the SSC cannot reset the chips through the 
printer. The 'reset head shots' and 'reset ink count' resets the head 
shots that eventually causes the printer to shut down due to the waste 
tank filling up. If you have not modified the printer to drain the 
waste tanks into a separate container, you do not want to do this or 
the printer might overflow with ink!

If you're in the USA, head down to Staples tomorrow, look for the Jet 
Tec refill kits, and look for the Epson Chip Resetter. It runs about 
$10-$15. This is the only way to reset most Epson cartridge chips. 
Just make sure you follow the instructions well so the chip doesn't 
get scrambled (not common). Since it looks like you're not in the US 
(I reply on the group website so I lack the headers to check), you may 
have to special order this chip resetter.

As for top and bottom, it doesn't bother me, but as one of the list 
moderators said the other day, your postings do not easily 
discriminate what is quoted and what is not, because your e-mail 
program does not add this:

> quoted text from earlier message

Since there are no > characters placed before the lines of the message 
you're replying to, it makes it difficult to tell which is which, 
especially because you top post and most people will read the bottom 
of the message. The moderator asked you to try to set your program in 
order to add the '> ' to quoted sections. That way it doesn't matter 
where you reply.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Robert Hedan <robert.hedan@...>
wrote:
>
> Sucks!
> 
> The cartridge drips all over the place when I slightly shake it,
liquid is
> pouring out the top and bottom and it continues to say INK OUT.

Epsons do not measure actual ink. They count ink shots and estimate,
usually very conservatively.

> I don't understand.  I tried everything in the SSC utility to get the
> printer going, no can do.  The cartridge is full of cleaner mixed
with black
> ink, SOMETHING should print, even if it's a blurry mess, anything,
even if
> it looks like that ink blob used by psychologists.  But no, the
printer sees
> it as completely empty even if the stub is totally wet.

I don't think it'll even try and print if the chip says it is out of ink.

Can you get a cheap 3rd party replacement set of ink cartridges?

Steve Greenfield

Ah, I get it now!  D'uh...

I found the option and set it properly.  I remember reading that post from
Steve, but I didn't understand what he meant.

I reply on top 'cause that's where Outlook opens a document.

Robert   <---   explain things twice, add a picture, then send a powerpoint
presentation.
:)


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De la part de fenrir_co
> Envoyé : avril 18 2006 23:26
> À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Objet : [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: STEVE: Cartridge flush - results
> 
> 
...

> 
> Since there are no > characters placed before the lines of 
> the message 
> you're replying to, it makes it difficult to tell which is which, 
> especially because you top post and most people will read the bottom 
> of the message. The moderator asked you to try to set your program in 
> order to add the '> ' to quoted sections. That way it doesn't matter 
> where you reply.

I'm kinda low on budget after having bought the C84, CX3810 and a few other
doodads.  I'll try to get some Staples replacement black tomorrow morning,
not sure if it is pigmented ink though.

I have to check the gas tank first and make sure I have enough gas for the
rest of the month, prices of gas are going up like nuts.

Robert
:)



> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Steve
> Envoyé : avril 18 2006 23:34
> À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Objet : [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: STEVE: Cartridge flush - results
> 
...

> 
> Can you get a cheap 3rd party replacement set of ink cartridges?
> 
> Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Robert Hedan <robert.hedan@...>
wrote:
>
> SSC reports black inkshots at 15,790.

Who knows why Epson might pick a strange number? :'/

> Also, the girl said the cartridge was 95% full.  She didn't
understand why
> it was empty, she had done a print test before putting up on EBay. 
She is
> sending me my money back anyways, so that ain't bad.

Aha!!! Now we know...

It shipped with those cartridges installed, they probably drained into
the park pads. Pressure changes during shipping tend to force the ink out.

However, that doesn't explain the chips reporting empty.

Steve Greenfield

No, that's the strange part.  Black, red and yellow were replacement
cartridges she bought at Staples; those 3 don't work any more.  Blue is
stock Epson, and that one still works.

Maybe the Staples ink dries/clogs faster?

Robert
:)


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Steve
> Envoyé : avril 18 2006 23:48
> À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Objet : [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: STEVE: Cartridge flush - results
> 
...

> 
> It shipped with those cartridges installed, they probably 
> drained into the park pads. Pressure changes during shipping 
> tend to force the ink out.
> 
> However, that doesn't explain the chips reporting empty.
> 
> Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Robert Hedan <robert.hedan@...>
wrote:
>
> Ah, I get it now!  D'uh...
> 
> I found the option and set it properly.  I remember reading that
post from
> Steve, but I didn't understand what he meant.

Cool! Thanks. Sometimes it takes a different way of expaining it.

> I reply on top 'cause that's where Outlook opens a document.

I'm not that concerned about top or bottom posting and more about
content and being able to follow. Trimming is good, but as you can see
I'm not a hard@ss about it.

> Robert   <---   explain things twice, add a picture, then send a
powerpoint
> presentation.
> :)

Ick! How about an Open Office presentation? ;')

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Robert Hedan <robert.hedan@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm kinda low on budget after having bought the C84, CX3810 and a
few other
> doodads.  I'll try to get some Staples replacement black tomorrow
morning,
> not sure if it is pigmented ink though.

You can move the chip from the new cartridge to the Epson Durabrite.

There is a very good chance the aftermarket is dye ink. You might
check, though, before swapping chips.

And MAKE SURE THE CHIP IS INSTALLED BEFORE PLUGGING THE CARTRIDGE IN!!!!

If the chip is not on securely and falls off, the wire contacts will
catch on the edge of the depression where the chip was, and break off
when you remove the cartridge.

Steve Greenfield

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Steve
> Envoyé : avril 18 2006 23:57
> À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Objet : [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: STEVE: Cartridge flush - results
> 
...
> 
> There is a very good chance the aftermarket is dye ink.

Yes, I think so too.


> If the chip is not on securely and falls off, the wire 
> contacts will catch on the edge of the depression where the 
> chip was, and break off when you remove the cartridge.

That sounds like experience talking, the -expensive- type of experience.


You know, once you have the replies prefixed with ">", replying in-line is
that much easier?

Robert
:)

"Not as dumb as yesterday, but stupider than tomorrow!"

On Tuesday 18 April 2006 23:54, Steve wrote:
>
>  > Robert   <---   explain things twice, add a picture, then send a
>
>  powerpoint
>
>  > presentation.
>  >
>  > :)
>
>  Ick! How about an Open Office presentation? ;')

Why not KPresenter? Compatible with almost any computer without adding any new 
software. (saves easily in HTML)

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 05:25:56 +0200, fenrir_co <fenrir@...>  
wrote:

>
>
> If you're in the USA, head down to Staples tomorrow, look for the Jet
>
> Tec refill kits, and look for the Epson Chip Resetter. It runs about
>
> $10-$15. This is the only way to reset most Epson cartridge chips.
>
> Just make sure you follow the instructions well so the chip doesn't
>
> get scrambled (not common). Since it looks like you're not in the US
>
> (I reply on the group website so I lack the headers to check), you may
>
> have to special order this chip resetter.


They are now at ebay for $3 or so, i would reckon almost everywhere. Many  
refill suppliers give them away free with an order.

ST

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 at 23:34, Robert Hedan wrote:
>Ah, I get it now!  D'uh...
>
>I found the option and set it properly.  I remember reading that post from
>Steve, but I didn't understand what he meant.
>
>I reply on top 'cause that's where Outlook opens a document.

Then you haven't got it - Duh!

Outlook leaves the cursor at the top so responsible people
can move down, trimming the quote as they go, and
reply underneath.

But you either can't think beyond the end of your cursor or
you CBA to help other people understand the thread and
your contribution to it. It's a lack of respect for ideas and people..

Then you come up with a lame excuse like: "I ran into the tree
because that's the way my car was pointing."

"It's the nut behind the wheel"...


Regards, LenW
-- 
   A: Because it destroys the flow of the conversation
   Q: Why is top-posting bad?

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 at 23:54, Robert Hedan top-posted,
(making it difficult to quote, trim & reply in logical order):
>On avril 18 2006 at 23:48  De la part de Steve
> > It shipped with those cartridges installed, they probably
> > drained into the park pads. Pressure changes during shipping
> > tend to force the ink out.
> >
> > However, that doesn't explain the chips reporting empty.
> >
> > Steve Greenfield
>
>No, that's the strange part.  Black, red and yellow were replacement
>cartridges she bought at Staples; those 3 don't work any more.  Blue is
>stock Epson, and that one still works.
>
>Maybe the Staples ink dries/clogs faster?

Or maybe the surface tension is wrong and it falls out of the
cartridge easier: that's one of the problems I have refilling my
thermal inkjet Lexmark.

I know Epson's different head technology but it must still depend
on surface tension in the nozzles to hold the ink in, unless there
is magically good pressure balancing - which, from recent
discussions of CIS, I'm pretty sure there isn't.


Regards, LenW
-- 
   Please trim quotes to minimum for context, then
   reply _below_ or interleave point-by-point replies.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Len Warner <yahoo@...> wrote:
>
snip

OK, that's enough. You have strayed entirely into being abusive. I've
warned you before. You are on moderated status.

Steve Greenfield
listowner

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Len Warner <yahoo@...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 at 23:54, Robert Hedan top-posted,

> >No, that's the strange part.  Black, red and yellow were replacement
> >cartridges she bought at Staples; those 3 don't work any more.  Blue is
> >stock Epson, and that one still works.
> >
> >Maybe the Staples ink dries/clogs faster?
> 
> Or maybe the surface tension is wrong and it falls out of the
> cartridge easier: that's one of the problems I have refilling my
> thermal inkjet Lexmark.

I don't think it's surface tension, although I could be wrong. Lexmark
and HP use a confusing system with some kind of slight negative
pressure. I found I could successfully fill HP with the bag inside by
refilling slowly, allowing the bag to collapse, wait a while with the
refiller still attached, then draw a little ink back out and quickly
seal the fill hole before the inner bag has a chance to recover.
Something like that. I tested it with water in a cleaned out black
cartridge that was clear plastic.

In HP 3 color heads and in older sponged Epson carts, they use a
sponge to sort of simulate this slight negative pressure. Get a sponge
wet, it tends to hold the water in it.

In Canon and newer Epson cartridges, it uses a different system to
regulate ink pressure. Surface tension in the outlet foam holds ink in
Canon carts, a spring loaded valve holds it in newer Epson carts.

Spongless empties from MIS for Epson use a system like the newer Epson
carts.

> I know Epson's different head technology but it must still depend
> on surface tension in the nozzles to hold the ink in, unless there
> is magically good pressure balancing - which, from recent
> discussions of CIS, I'm pretty sure there isn't.

The nozzles are incredibly tiny so forces from surface tension are
high for the area. I've not had a problem with ink leaking out unless
there is some other problem causing ink to be pushed out.

Yes, most CIS have bad pressure balancing over the course of using up
the ink, but when at the correct level it is very well balanced.

Steve Greenfield