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2006-03-26 by zoran_vasiljevic2000
Zoran's plotter is similar to a regular X/Y plotter, except that it does not use ink, it uses melted paraffin (wax), for drawing on PCB laminate, and for making PCB. After drawing, it is developed in Ferric Chloride, according to the well known process. For more, open the link: http://ca.geocities.com/zoran_vasiljevic2000/index.html Thanks, Zoran
2006-03-26 by Len Warner
At Sun, 26 Mar 2006, zoran_vasiljevic wrote: >Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 02:40:31 -0000 > From: "zoran_vasiljevic2000" <v.zoran@...> >Subject: Zoran's plotter > >...plotter...uses melted paraffin wax, for drawing on PCB laminate >http://ca.geocities.com/zoran_vasiljevic2000/index.html Ingeneous! - but you won't get anything near the claimed 2.5 - 3.5 Watt wax pen heating with the circuit in slika03h.jpg Regards, LenW -- Please trim quotes to minimum for context, then reply below or interleave point-by-point replies.
2006-03-27 by Alan King
Len Warner wrote: >At Sun, 26 Mar 2006, zoran_vasiljevic wrote: > > >>...plotter...uses melted paraffin wax, for drawing on PCB laminate >>http://ca.geocities.com/zoran_vasiljevic2000/index.html >> >> > >Ingeneous! - but you won't get anything near the claimed >2.5 - 3.5 Watt wax pen heating with the circuit in slika03h.jpg > > That does look interesting. Makes me want to take my old Epson stylus and dump out the black cart and put in some paraffin. If all it needs is some extra heating to make an inkjet work, that would be the way to go, much easier than straightening out a laser path.. Alan
2006-03-27 by Lez
I got chucked out the site with the bandwidth exceeded call back in an hour message, been trying to see it for days now! I did see the main page with the picture of the completed plotter but not the more detailed pages, so I would like to ask a few questions here! Does it work on XP? Does it need special software and intelligent controller board for the motors? Can the parafin be changed to something else, say a etch resistant marker pen? On 27/03/06, Alan King <alan@...> wrote: > Len Warner wrote: > > >At Sun, 26 Mar 2006, zoran_vasiljevic wrote: > > > > > >>...plotter...uses melted paraffin wax, for drawing on PCB laminate > >>http://ca.geocities.com/zoran_vasiljevic2000/index.html > >> > >> > > > >Ingeneous! - but you won't get anything near the claimed > >2.5 - 3.5 Watt wax pen heating with the circuit in slika03h.jpg > > > > > > That does look interesting. Makes me want to take my old Epson stylus > and dump out the black cart and put in some paraffin. If all it needs > is some extra heating to make an inkjet work, that would be the way to > go, much easier than straightening out a laser path.. > > > Alan > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- Lez
2006-03-27 by roger lucas
Zoran,
Sounds a great idea, but unfortunately the site always
seems to be unaccessable. Could you post some details
on this forum so we can understand the details.
TIA
Roger
--- zoran_vasiljevic2000 <v.zoran@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
Zoran's plotter is similar to a regular X/Y plotter,
except that it
does not
use ink, it uses melted paraffin (wax), for drawing
on PCB laminate, and
for making PCB. After drawing, it is developed in
Ferric Chloride,
according to the well known process.
For more, open the link:
http://ca.geocities.com/zoran_vasiljevic2000/index.html
Thanks,
Zoran
Be sure to visit the group home and check for new
Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
If Files or Photos are running short of space, post
them here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
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This was not explicitly explained on the website, but this is how I interpreted it. It looks like a small copper cup with a small heater using an smd resistor. Paraffin wax is melted inside the cup. A small hollow needle is attached to the cup. The needle is tapped against the board which draws out some melted paraffin which solidifies. This process is repeated about 200 times per second while moving the needle. It sort of made me think of something like a tatoo making process. --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, roger lucas <ralucas4277@...> wrote: > > Zoran, > > Sounds a great idea, but unfortunately the site always > seems to be unaccessable. Could you post some details > on this forum so we can understand the details. > > TIA > > Roger > > > --- zoran_vasiljevic2000 <v.zoran@...> wrote: > > > --------------------------------- > Zoran's plotter is similar to a regular X/Y plotter, > except that it > does not > use ink, it uses melted paraffin (wax), for drawing > on PCB laminate, and > for making PCB. After drawing, it is developed in > Ferric Chloride, > according to the well known process. > > For more, open the link: > > http://ca.geocities.com/zoran_vasiljevic2000/index.html > > Thanks, > Zoran > > > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new > Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post > them here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Electrical engineering degree online > Electrical engineering degree > Printed circuit board > > Electrical engineering > Electrical engineering course > Electrical engineering graduate school > > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "Homebrew_PCBs" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com >
2006-03-27 by Lez
On 27/03/06, javaguy11111 <javaguy11111@...> wrote: . > It sort of made me think of something like a tatoo making process. > Lol a new business venture, 300dpi full colour tattoo's
2006-03-27 by Mycroft2152
It's interesting that Zoran published his plans this time of year. The use of paraffin as a resist has a long history in decorating Easter Eggs. Google Ukraine Easter Eggs for some incredible desings. Paraffin is also used on fabrics for 'Batik' designs. I was surprised to see no dots visible in the enlarged traces, and some of the right angles were very sharp, may be too sharp. I would also like to know how long it takes to plot a board. The fine diameter of the needle neededto ge the resoltuion shouwed, would indicate many many passes to make a wide line. Yet the lines seem to be completely filled. Overall its an interesting application, but very similar to using a "sharpie" marker to draw out the pattern. TANSTAAFL! Myc --- javaguy11111 <javaguy11111@...> wrote: > This was not explicitly explained on the website, > but this is how I > interpreted it. > It looks like a small copper cup with a small heater > using an smd > resistor. Paraffin wax is melted inside the cup. A > small hollow needle > is attached to the cup. The needle is tapped against > the board which > draws out some melted paraffin which solidifies. > This process is > repeated about 200 times per second while moving the > needle. > It sort of made me think of something like a tatoo > making process. > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, roger lucas > <ralucas4277@...> wrote: > > > > Zoran, > > > > Sounds a great idea, but unfortunately the site > always > > seems to be unaccessable. Could you post some > details > > on this forum so we can understand the details. > > > > TIA > > > > Roger > > > > > > --- zoran_vasiljevic2000 <v.zoran@...> wrote: > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Zoran's plotter is similar to a regular X/Y > plotter, > > except that it > > does not > > use ink, it uses melted paraffin (wax), for > drawing > > on PCB laminate, and > > for making PCB. After drawing, it is developed in > > Ferric Chloride, > > according to the well known process. > > > > For more, open the link: > > > > > http://ca.geocities.com/zoran_vasiljevic2000/index.html > > > > Thanks, > > Zoran > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new > > Links, Files, and Photos: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, > post > > them here: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > > Electrical engineering degree online > > > Electrical engineering degree > > > Printed circuit board > > > > > > Electrical engineering > > > Electrical engineering course > > > Electrical engineering graduate > school > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > Visit your group "Homebrew_PCBs" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email > to: > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've > developed the all new > Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
2006-03-27 by javaguy11111
It looks like the device to apply the wax in Ukrainian eggs is called a Kistka. Doing a search for that name in google images shows a few examples. The electric kistkas look alot like a soldering iron modified to hold the cup. It does look very much like what Zoran had built. --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...> wrote:
> > It's interesting that Zoran published his plans this > time of year. The use of paraffin as a resist has a > long history in decorating Easter Eggs. Google Ukraine > Easter Eggs for some incredible desings. > > Paraffin is also used on fabrics for 'Batik' designs. > > I was surprised to see no dots visible in the enlarged > traces, and some of the right angles were very sharp, > may be too sharp. > > I would also like to know how long it takes to plot a > board. The fine diameter of the needle neededto ge the > resoltuion shouwed, would indicate many many passes to > make a wide line. Yet the lines seem to be completely > filled. > > Overall its an interesting application, but very > similar to using a "sharpie" marker to draw out the > pattern. > > TANSTAAFL! > > Myc > > > --- javaguy11111 <javaguy11111@...> wrote: > > > This was not explicitly explained on the website, > > but this is how I > > interpreted it. > > It looks like a small copper cup with a small heater > > using an smd > > resistor. Paraffin wax is melted inside the cup. A > > small hollow needle > > is attached to the cup. The needle is tapped against > > the board which > > draws out some melted paraffin which solidifies. > > This process is > > repeated about 200 times per second while moving the > > needle. > > It sort of made me think of something like a tatoo > > making process. > > > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, roger lucas > > <ralucas4277@> wrote: > > > > > > Zoran, > > > > > > Sounds a great idea, but unfortunately the site > > always > > > seems to be unaccessable. Could you post some > > details > > > on this forum so we can understand the details. > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > Roger > > > > > > > > > --- zoran_vasiljevic2000 <v.zoran@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Zoran's plotter is similar to a regular X/Y > > plotter, > > > except that it > > > does not > > > use ink, it uses melted paraffin (wax), for > > drawing > > > on PCB laminate, and > > > for making PCB. After drawing, it is developed in > > > Ferric Chloride, > > > according to the well known process. > > > > > > For more, open the link: > > > > > > > > > http://ca.geocities.com/zoran_vasiljevic2000/index.html > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Zoran > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new > > > Links, Files, and Photos: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > > > > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, > > post > > > them here: > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > > > > Electrical engineering degree online > > > > > Electrical engineering degree > > > > > Printed circuit board > > > > > > > > > > Electrical engineering > > > > > Electrical engineering course > > > > > Electrical engineering graduate > > school > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "Homebrew_PCBs" on the web. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email > > to: > > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > Yahoo! > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've > > developed the all new > > Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >
2006-03-27 by lcdpublishing
It is a very interesting techinque indeed. Part of the problem with using sharpie ink, is getting the fine lines - I have yet to get .012" wide lines with any of the markers I have tried (extra fine point, super fine, etc.). The line either bleeds out a bit too much or it's just plain too fat. Using the wax adds a whole new avenue of trying different things. I have never done any "printing" using home-made pens like that. But, if I could get my hands on some needles, I think I would be willing to give it a go. I would suspect that if you can control the tempurature good enough, you could heat the wax up, then draw the lines like a regular pen as opposed to heating-cooling for each droplet. I suspect the surface tension of the liquid wax would keep it from running out of the needle when it is not in contact with the PCB. All around it's interesting and certainly merits some further tinkering. Chris --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...> wrote:
> > It's interesting that Zoran published his plans this > time of year. The use of paraffin as a resist has a > long history in decorating Easter Eggs. Google Ukraine > Easter Eggs for some incredible desings. > > Paraffin is also used on fabrics for 'Batik' designs. > > I was surprised to see no dots visible in the enlarged > traces, and some of the right angles were very sharp, > may be too sharp. > > I would also like to know how long it takes to plot a > board. The fine diameter of the needle neededto ge the > resoltuion shouwed, would indicate many many passes to > make a wide line. Yet the lines seem to be completely > filled. > > Overall its an interesting application, but very > similar to using a "sharpie" marker to draw out the > pattern. > > TANSTAAFL! > > Myc > > > --- javaguy11111 <javaguy11111@...> wrote: > > > This was not explicitly explained on the website, > > but this is how I > > interpreted it. > > It looks like a small copper cup with a small heater > > using an smd > > resistor. Paraffin wax is melted inside the cup. A > > small hollow needle > > is attached to the cup. The needle is tapped against > > the board which > > draws out some melted paraffin which solidifies. > > This process is > > repeated about 200 times per second while moving the > > needle. > > It sort of made me think of something like a tatoo > > making process. > > > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, roger lucas > > <ralucas4277@> wrote: > > > > > > Zoran, > > > > > > Sounds a great idea, but unfortunately the site > > always > > > seems to be unaccessable. Could you post some > > details > > > on this forum so we can understand the details. > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > Roger > > > > > > > > > --- zoran_vasiljevic2000 <v.zoran@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Zoran's plotter is similar to a regular X/Y > > plotter, > > > except that it > > > does not > > > use ink, it uses melted paraffin (wax), for > > drawing > > > on PCB laminate, and > > > for making PCB. After drawing, it is developed in > > > Ferric Chloride, > > > according to the well known process. > > > > > > For more, open the link: > > > > > > > > > http://ca.geocities.com/zoran_vasiljevic2000/index.html > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Zoran > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new > > > Links, Files, and Photos: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > > > > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, > > post > > > them here: > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > > > > Electrical engineering degree online > > > > > Electrical engineering degree > > > > > Printed circuit board > > > > > > > > > > Electrical engineering > > > > > Electrical engineering course > > > > > Electrical engineering graduate > > school > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "Homebrew_PCBs" on the web. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email > > to: > > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > Yahoo! > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've > > developed the all new > > Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >
2006-03-27 by Alan Marconett
Hi Zoran, Interesting and clever idea! I see that the solenoid lifts the paraffin pen away from the surface of the board, but what is done to keep the paraffin from running out? Some sort of capillary action to draw? Is this the same paraffin used in canning of fruit or whatever in jars, and also for making candles? Then again, we used to just DRAW on a blank PCB with a Sharpie permanent marker, and then etch the board. Another way simple boards were done a college lab was to draw traces on a masking tape covered PCB, cut them out with an Exacto knife, and then fill in the cutouts with nail polish! After carefully pealing off the masking tape, the board could be etched. Perhaps finger nail polish could be used in an appropriate delivery system? Once one has the delivery system, then moving the "pen" around on the PCB is a piece of pie! An old Rapidograph pen comes to mind. They had wires in the tubes to keep them from clogging, and to shut off the capillary flow of ink (I think). Alan KM6VV
2006-03-27 by Stefan Trethan
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:03:44 +0200, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote: > > > > > Lol a new business venture, 300dpi full colour tattoo's Now who said the old dot-matrix printers are useless scrap? ;-) *** I like the wax plotter idea as a novelty, it's neatly done, and working, but i fear the resolution would not be acceptable for what i want to do, and it would take much longer than my current process. Still a very nice thing, i especially like using a relay instead of the usually-too-bulky solenoids. BTW. someone mentioned egg painting using wax masks, they do the same thing with painting on silk in some areas, to prevent the colors running into each other. Most people use some cold process these days though. I hope someone put this page in the links section for future reference? ST
2006-03-27 by Stefan Trethan
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:38:12 +0200, Alan Marconett <KM6VV@...> wrote: > Then again, we used to just DRAW on a blank PCB with a Sharpie permanent > > marker, and then etch the board. Another way simple boards were done a > > college lab was to draw traces on a masking tape covered PCB, cut them > out > > with an Exacto knife, and then fill in the cutouts with nail polish! > After > > carefully pealing off the masking tape, the board could be etched. > Perhaps > > finger nail polish could be used in an appropriate delivery system? Once > > one has the delivery system, then moving the "pen" around on the PCB is a > > piece of pie! I tried plotting with colophony resin once. It did not work, i had diluted it in alcohol and the layer was not thick enough. The trailing edge of the plotter pen "scraped" the resist off again. Sticky mess too. (Same problem as with OHP marker ink) If you can figure out how to do that you not only have a great resist, you also have the board fluxed for soldering already ;-) ST
2006-03-27 by Alan Marconett
Hi to the PCB lists, (multiple posting) I have been trying to use an older copy of DeskPCB to generate Gcode for my current (first!) Eagle board project. I keep loosing traces on the edges of the board where several pin headers are. I then was going to use an old mill-isolation ULP with Eagle to generate my Gcode files, but after I finally found it, I discovered that it wouldn't run with the current Eagle 4.15 release! Back to searching for an isolation ULP. Mill3 (I think) made HPGL files. Close, but no easy way to convert to DXF. I had joined PCB Gcode about a month after it started (last Dec), but hadn't thoroughly explored what it was. I didn't realize at the time that it was a ULP directly for Eagle! While going back over the available ULPs for Eagle, I saw PCB-GCODE listed! Long story short, I installed it and ran it on my current board project. Success! Very good Gcode files, available in several versions to match the CNC controller program you are using. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcb-gcode/ Rather then make a single isolation pass (like I'd intended to do), it can make SEVERAL isolation traces around the nets on the board. This greatly reduces the "slivers" of copper between traces. I've not "Cut" a PCB with it yet, but my own STEP4 controller seems to handle it well. And my alignment problems appear to be gone! Guess I won't be using IMService DeskPCB software much anymore. Alan KM6VV
2006-03-27 by Alan Marconett
Hi, So do these Kistka irons need to be tapped as well? http://www.mccallisters.com/egg_decorating/kistkas_electric.htm As you've observed, they look like soldering irons. I suspect that a copper tip on a small 35W Weller soldering iron could be drilled through at an angle and a small funnel with a needle (like the tips sold) threaded into the upper end. A Variac could be used to run the power down to an acceptable level. The heating unit would then need to be attached to the spindle of a small mill (Sherline!). Cool adaptation of an existing art technique Zoran! Alan KM6VV
> > It looks like the device to apply the wax in Ukrainian eggs is called > a Kistka. Doing a search for that name in google images shows a few > examples. The electric kistkas look alot like a soldering iron > modified to hold the cup. It does look very much like what Zoran had > built. > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...> wrote: > > > > It's interesting that Zoran published his plans this > > time of year. The use of paraffin as a resist has a > > long history in decorating Easter Eggs. Google Ukraine > > Easter Eggs for some incredible desings. > > > > Paraffin is also used on fabrics for 'Batik' designs. > > > > I was surprised to see no dots visible in the enlarged > > traces, and some of the right angles were very sharp, > > may be too sharp. > > > > I would also like to know how long it takes to plot a > > board. The fine diameter of the needle neededto ge the > > resoltuion shouwed, would indicate many many passes to > > make a wide line. Yet the lines seem to be completely > > filled. > > > > Overall its an interesting application, but very > > similar to using a "sharpie" marker to draw out the > > pattern. > > > > TANSTAAFL! > > > > Myc > >
2006-03-27 by zoran_vasiljevic2000
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Marconett" <KM6VV@...> wrote: > > Hi Zoran, > > Interesting and clever idea! > > I see that the solenoid lifts the paraffin pen away from the surface of the > board, but what is done to keep the paraffin from running out? Some sort of > capillary action to draw? The Surface tension of liquid (on te tip point), and a small hydrostatic pressure (a short needle), a small difference in height between the tip point and the liquid paraffin surface, keep the paraffin from running out. > Is this the same paraffin used in canning of fruit or whatever in jars, and > also for making candles? Yes, it is from candle. Regards, Zoran
2006-03-27 by zoran_vasiljevic2000
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "javaguy11111" <javaguy11111@...> wrote: > > This was not explicitly explained on the website, but this is how I > interpreted it. > It looks like a small copper cup with a small heater using an smd > resistor. Paraffin wax is melted inside the cup. A small hollow needle > is attached to the cup. The needle is tapped against the board which > draws out some melted paraffin which solidifies. This process is > repeated about 200 times per second while moving the needle. You are right. Only small corrections: A SMD power transistor is the heater. The tapping is about 200 times per minute. Regards, Zoran
2006-03-27 by Alan Marconett
HI Zoran, What is the size of the hole (bore) in the needle? Does this dimension correspond to the width of line deposited? How many DPI (dots per inch) would you say you get to lay down a trace? Your "drawing speed" divided by 200 dots/sec would probably calculate this. Is the tapping really necessary? I read no mention of it in some simple research on Kistka (which I'm told your process relates to). What is the retract distance (z axis) between line segments? Anyone interested in combining this technology with an EGG-BOT? ;>) http://www.taomc.com/bits2bots/eggbot.htm FULL-CIRCLE, or should I say "full egg-shaped"! ;>) Thanks for your replies Zoran! Alan KM6VV
> > > > This was not explicitly explained on the website, but this is how I > > interpreted it. > > It looks like a small copper cup with a small heater using an smd > > resistor. Paraffin wax is melted inside the cup. A small hollow needle > > is attached to the cup. The needle is tapped against the board which > > draws out some melted paraffin which solidifies. This process is > > repeated about 200 times per second while moving the needle. > > > You are right. > Only small corrections: > A SMD power transistor is the heater. > The tapping is about 200 times per minute. > > Regards, Zoran >
2006-03-27 by zoran_vasiljevic2000
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Len Warner <yahoo@...> wrote: > Ingeneous! - but you won't get anything near the claimed > 2.5 - 3.5 Watt wax pen heating with the circuit in slika03h.jpg > > > Regards, LenW You are right. It was a mistake. I will post a new schematic immediately. Regards, Zoran
2006-03-27 by Lez
I'm surprised no one has asked you this but have you tried changing from wax to etch resist marker like the sharpie etc then it wont need to tap 200 times a minute, easier on the ears! On 27/03/06, zoran_vasiljevic2000 <v.zoran@...> wrote: > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "javaguy11111" > <javaguy11111@...> wrote: > > > > This was not explicitly explained on the website, but this is how I > > interpreted it. > > It looks like a small copper cup with a small heater using an smd > > resistor. Paraffin wax is melted inside the cup. A small hollow needle > > is attached to the cup. The needle is tapped against the board which > > draws out some melted paraffin which solidifies. This process is > > repeated about 200 times per second while moving the needle. > > > You are right. > Only small corrections: > A SMD power transistor is the heater. > The tapping is about 200 times per minute. > > Regards, Zoran > > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- Lez
2006-03-27 by Zoran A. Scepanovic
First of all Sorry for strange language
Zdravo Imenjace,
<Big Snip>
dobi li ti moj emajl na private?
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Srdacan pozdrav,
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*********
Interchangeable tapes won't.
*********
Please be advised what was said may be absolutely wrong, and hereby this disclaimer follows. I reserve the right to be wrong and admit it in front of the entire world.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-03-27 by zoran_vasiljevic2000
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Marconett" <KM6VV@...> wrote: > > HI Zoran, > > What is the size of the hole (bore) in the needle? Does this dimension > correspond to the width of line deposited? How many DPI (dots per inch) > would you say you get to lay down a trace? Your "drawing speed" divided by > 200 dots/sec would probably calculate this. > > Is the tapping really necessary? I read no mention of it in some simple > research on Kistka (which I'm told your process relates to). > > What is the retract distance (z axis) between line segments? > > Anyone interested in combining this technology with an EGG-BOT? ;>) > > http://www.taomc.com/bits2bots/eggbot.htm > > FULL-CIRCLE, or should I say "full egg-shaped"! ;>) > > Thanks for your replies Zoran! > > Alan KM6VV Hi Alan, The size of the hole is hard to measure, sorry. If you have not a filament wire in that hole, layer of the paraffin will be thick, and that is bad. Dots are overlapping partially, it make to much paraffin there. You have to have that filament wire. A hundred dots make 1 inch line. A "drawing speed" is 200 dots / minute, approximately. You can change and adjust it, in the file CNFG.TXT, by changing the time loops, and select what is best for you. For a good looking line, tapping looks necessary. Distance from the PCB surface to the tip point, when the pen is up, approximately 1mm. I am not sure if you ask for that distance? Regards, Zoran
2006-03-27 by Stefan Trethan
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:25:57 +0200, zoran_vasiljevic2000 <v.zoran@...> wrote: > Hi Alan, > > > The size of the hole is hard to measure, sorry. > > > If you have not a filament wire in that hole, layer of the paraffin > > will be thick, and that is bad. Dots are overlapping partially, it > > make to much paraffin there. You have to have that filament wire. > > > A hundred dots make 1 inch line. > > > A "drawing speed" is 200 dots / minute, approximately. You can change > > and adjust it, in the file CNFG.TXT, by changing the time loops, and > > select what is best for you. > > For a good looking line, tapping looks necessary. > > > Distance from the PCB surface to the tip point, when the pen is up, > > approximately 1mm. I am not sure if you ask for that distance? > > > Regards, Zoran How do you remove the paraffin after etching? I did not try the tapping, it would probably have made my plotter work back then. Did not think of that. Well, i'm not going there again, since TT works better for me. ST
2006-03-27 by zoran_vasiljevic2000
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...> wrote: > > > How do you remove the paraffin after etching? > > I did not try the tapping, it would probably have made my plotter work > back then. Did not think of that. > Well, i'm not going there again, since TT works better for me. > > ST I turn on the kitchen stove for 30 seconds only, and leave a PCB on it. After 2 minutes paraffin is melted, and I use paper towel. Zoran
2006-03-27 by zoran_vasiljevic2000
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote: > > I'm surprised no one has asked you this but have you tried changing > from wax to etch resist marker like the sharpie etc then it wont need > to tap 200 times a minute, easier on the ears! I believe that the paraffin work a little better than the etch resist marker. Zoran
2006-03-28 by roger lucas
Zoran,
Are we talking bog standard white candles here or are
there special candles we need to obtain for this to
work.
Roger
--- zoran_vasiljevic2000 <v.zoran@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
Zoran's plotter is similar to a regular X/Y plotter,
except that it
does not
use ink, it uses melted paraffin (wax), for drawing
on PCB laminate, and
for making PCB. After drawing, it is developed in
Ferric Chloride,
according to the well known process.
For more, open the link:
http://ca.geocities.com/zoran_vasiljevic2000/index.html
Thanks,
Zoran
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Links, Files, and Photos:
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Yahoo! Photos \ufffd NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com2006-03-28 by Stefan Trethan
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:35:17 +0200, roger lucas <ralucas4277@...> wrote: > Zoran, > > > Are we talking bog standard white candles here or are > > there special candles we need to obtain for this to > > work. > > > Roger I think most candles are made of paraffin these days, get the cheapest and don't get "oil" ones and you should be fine. It should smell like burning PE, or rather burning PE smells like paraffin ST
2006-03-28 by zoran_vasiljevic2000
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, roger lucas <ralucas4277@...> wrote: > > Zoran, > > Are we talking bog standard white candles here or are > there special candles we need to obtain for this to > work. > > Roger Hi Roger, Ordinary candle and ordinary paraffin. Zoran
2006-03-28 by Len Warner
At Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:10, Stefan Trethan wrote: >On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:35:17 +0200, roger lucas wrote: > > > Zoran, > > Are we talking bog standard white candles here or are > > there special candles we need to obtain for this to > > work. > > Roger > >I think most candles are made of paraffin these days, >get the cheapest and don't get "oil" ones and you should be fine. >It should smell like burning PE, or rather burning PE smells like paraffin > >ST Most candles are based on paraffin wax. Better quality candles contain a hardener, such as stearic acid, or beeswax, which makes them smell nice too. Good for burning time but probably largely irrelevant to this application. You can buy "Paraffin Wax BP" in slabs to order in UK chemists shops (pharmacies). Granulated paraffin wax and stearic acid powder are available from candlemaking suppliers - you might try a local art & craft shop. The advantage of granulation is easier handling and measuring and quicker melting, again of little consequence to us. Probably the cheapest and by far the most widely available source is the "tea light" - they are used for food warmers, night lights and aromatherapy burners, so you find bags of them in street markets and discount stores everywhere. They even have a convenient little metal pot in which to melt the wax and store the remainder :-) Whatever you use,it would be best to stick to the same source to avoid inconsistencies in plotting through variations in melting point - but one bag of tea lights, or one altar candle will make a _lot_ of PCBs :-) BTW, in reply to an earlier post in this thread, a technical pen has a tubular nib with a fine wire attached to a weight. The wire is purely as a mechanical nib cleaner, since drawing inks are usually pigment based (traditional India or China ink is basically lamp black in suspension in dilute gum arabic). Since the nib is a metal & plastic assembly, it would be difficult to ensure enough heat flow to keep the wax from solidifying in the nib while avoiding melting the plastic. Regards, LenW -- A: Because it destroys the flow of the conversation Q: Why is top-posting bad?
2006-03-28 by Stefan Trethan
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:44:29 +0200, Len Warner <yahoo@...> wrote: > > > Probably the cheapest and by far the most widely available source > > is the "tea light" - they are used for food warmers, night lights and > > aromatherapy burners, so you find bags of them in street markets > > and discount stores everywhere. They even have a convenient little > > metal pot in which to melt the wax and store the remainder > Never heat them on a electric hotplate until the paraffin starts to boil and then attempt to lift the tea light off with a pair of pliers. If you spill some of the overheated paraffin the whole lot will ignite with a HUGE flame. Don't ask how i know this! You can melt them easily, just don't overdo it with the temperature and let it boil..... ST
2006-03-29 by roger lucas
Thinking about this a bit more, (after managing to
read half the site before it threw me out), why not
hold the heated cup stationary and vibrate the wire in
the hollow needle.
This might give higher speed with greater resolution,
with the wire still maintaining some sort of metering
function. Might need to play around with needle id and
wire od.
Worth a try perhaps??
I imagine the viscocity of the heated, (liquid),
paraffin wax is higher than any standard ink, which is
perhaps why Zoran's system works ok.
roger
--- zoran_vasiljevic2000 <v.zoran@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
Zoran's plotter is similar to a regular X/Y plotter,
except that it
does not
use ink, it uses melted paraffin (wax), for drawing
on PCB laminate, and
for making PCB. After drawing, it is developed in
Ferric Chloride,
according to the well known process.
For more, open the link:
http://ca.geocities.com/zoran_vasiljevic2000/index.html
Thanks,
Zoran
Be sure to visit the group home and check for new
Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
If Files or Photos are running short of space, post
them here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
SPONSORED LINKS
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Printed circuit board
Electrical engineering
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Electrical engineering graduate school
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Yahoo! Photos \ufffd NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com2006-03-29 by pebo festus
come on folks--give zoran a break, he has a system that works(just looking at the board). suggestions are always welcome but try to build a system that uses your ideas, then post your system here so every one can benifit from your work. mebo31
> Thinking about this a bit more, (after managing to > read half the site before it threw me out), why not > hold the heated cup stationary and vibrate the wire in > the hollow needle. > > This might give higher speed with greater resolution, > with the wire still maintaining some sort of metering > function. Might need to play around with needle id and > wire od. > > Worth a try perhaps?? > > I imagine the viscocity of the heated, (liquid), > paraffin wax is higher than any standard ink, which is > perhaps why Zoran's system works ok. > > roger > > > --- zoran_vasiljevic2000 <v.zoran@...> wrote: > > > --------------------------------- > Zoran's plotter is similar to a regular X/Y plotter, > except that it > does not > use ink, it uses melted paraffin (wax), for drawing > on PCB laminate, and > for making PCB. After drawing, it is developed in > Ferric Chloride, > according to the well known process. > > For more, open the link: > > http://ca.geocities.com/zoran_vasiljevic2000/index.html > > Thanks, > Zoran
2006-03-29 by Dave Mucha
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "pebo festus" <mebo31@...> wrote: > > > come on folks--give zoran a break, he has a system that works(just > looking at the board). suggestions are always welcome but try to > build a system that uses your ideas, then post your system here so > every one can benifit from your work. > mebo31 > I don't think the wire trick is a compalint, it is more of a 'where can we go from here ? ' Zoran broke new ground and established a whole new method. he is the visionary that opened the door. but there is no reason why one cannot imporve in anything. If you saw the video on the site, it taps along in a slow but methodical way. Sure it could be much faster. it will take some time and trial and error for many of us to figure out how to make it better. I have a HP plotter with a carosel. I'm thinking why not have 6 cups and each a different size ? maybe I can 'print' one whole pad at a time ? maybe draw some 2mm lines with one pen and 0/5mm with another ? maybe draw straight lines in one action and not have to peck them ? Zoran offered a briliant solution to a problem. But, it is only natural for us to tweak anything we see. Dave
2006-03-29 by Alan Marconett
HI Dave, Hear Hear! I second that! I had good fun looking up Kistka and seeing the "soldering irons" used in this method to color eggs! I visualized machining a brass cup with a threaded hole on the side to take a soldering iron element. Then attach the whole thing to my Sherline's Z axis saddle. Oops! It seems like one has to tap on the board to control the flow of the wax, back to the drawing board! But my point as well is a project mentioned/presented to the lists is an excellent vehicle for some mental exercises; "how can I build one?" OK, I'm off on another resurrection, after seeing CNCDudeZ small tabletop router (computer motion list), I spent last evening digging through my accumulated pile of linear ways and leadscrews, and I think I've NOW "visualized" how I can use my parts to build an 11" or so gantry style PCB router (actually two) for myself. Of course the recent donation of about 3' of linear ways with a pair of leadscrews didn't hurt either! http://www.cncdudez.com/ Alan KM6VV P.S. This is so much more a desirable topic then top/bottom responses.
> > > > come on folks--give zoran a break, he has a system that works(just > > looking at the board). suggestions are always welcome but try to > > build a system that uses your ideas, then post your system here so > > every one can benifit from your work. > > mebo31 > > > I don't think the wire trick is a compalint, it is more of a 'where > can we go from here ? ' > > Zoran broke new ground and established a whole new method. he is the > visionary that opened the door. > > but there is no reason why one cannot imporve in anything. > > If you saw the video on the site, it taps along in a slow but > methodical way. Sure it could be much faster. > > it will take some time and trial and error for many of us to figure > out how to make it better. > > I have a HP plotter with a carosel. I'm thinking why not have 6 cups > and each a different size ? maybe I can 'print' one whole pad at a time ? > > maybe draw some 2mm lines with one pen and 0/5mm with another ? > > maybe draw straight lines in one action and not have to peck them ? > > Zoran offered a briliant solution to a problem. > > But, it is only natural for us to tweak anything we see. > > Dave >
2006-03-29 by derekhawkins
>Zoran offered a briliant solution to a problem. I don't want to sound like a party pooper but suspect that one of the reasons why the whole world isn't beating a path to Zoran's door is because of the question "Does the ends justify the means". Brilliant as it is, isn't it a somewhat crude flatbed plotter that uses wax instead of ink? Heck, for PCB work, we gave up on plotters, in favor of printers, long ago. --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Mucha" <dave_mucha@...> wrote: >
2006-03-29 by roger lucas
Thanks Dave, my post was certainly not a complaint or a criticism, just a fertile mind at work. I think Zoran is to be congratulated on his efforts, just look at his simple H bridge drivers. Personally, I would probably play with the wire/wax idea if it wasn't for the fact that I am still developing the PIC based EDM PCB MILL, which I hope to post soon. Raw pcb to finished board in one leap is too good a target to let slip. I will probably incorporate a pcb drill on the other side of the gantry to drill the board while mounted. Roger --- Dave Mucha <dave_mucha@...> wrote: I don't think the wire trick is a compalint, it is more of a 'where can we go from here ? ' Zoran broke new ground and established a whole new method. he is the visionary that opened the door. but there is no reason why one cannot imporve in anything. ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com