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Double sided vs single sided fr4

Double sided vs single sided fr4

2006-03-02 by sbdwag

Im getting ready to order some double sided FR-4 from abcfab and have
a question.

Right now I do not plan on making very many double sided boards. Its
more difficult to find single sided pcbs and was wonder how I could
cover the top side without putting a resist layer on it before I etch.
Is there a cheap paint that I could spray on it and remove after etching.

Any other advantages or disadvantages to having double sided vs single
sided pcbs when you are only using one side.

Regards
Wag

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Double sided vs single sided fr4

2006-03-02 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message -----
From: "sbdwag" <sbdwag@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 2:36 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Double sided vs single sided fr4


> Im getting ready to order some double sided FR-4 from abcfab and have
> a question.
>
> Right now I do not plan on making very many double sided boards. Its
> more difficult to find single sided pcbs and was wonder how I could
> cover the top side without putting a resist layer on it before I etch.
> Is there a cheap paint that I could spray on it and remove after etching.
>
> Any other advantages or disadvantages to having double sided vs single
> sided pcbs when you are only using one side.

Cellulose paint works quite well as a resist, as does sticky tape, although
the latter sometimes allows some seepage under the edges.

Leon

Re: Double sided vs single sided fr4

2006-03-02 by Chris Horne

Correct me if I'm wrong folks,

but using a double sided board for a single sided circuit would mean
at the very least etching around all the drill holes to prevent the
component leads creating short circuits.

I would say single sided is best for single sided circuits.

If the double sided board is significantly cheaper for you, you may be
able to peel the foil off one side... try on a scrap end first..
maybe start it with a knife blade... It peels off the board I am
using currently, but that is a cheaper SRBP board (I'm a cheapskate)

Actually, SRBP is a good choice if you don't need Fibreglass strength
etc as is is far kinder on the drill bits, guillotine and wallet!

Chris (-=Spiyda=-)

Not --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sbdwag" <sbdwag@...> wrote:
>
> Im getting ready to order some double sided FR-4 from abcfab and have
> a question.
>
> Right now I do not plan on making very many double sided boards. Its
> more difficult to find single sided pcbs and was wonder how I could
> cover the top side without putting a resist layer on it before I etch.
> Is there a cheap paint that I could spray on it and remove after
etching.
>
> Any other advantages or disadvantages to having double sided vs single
> sided pcbs when you are only using one side.
>
> Regards
> Wag
>

Re: Double sided vs single sided fr4

2006-03-02 by derekhawkins

>but using a double sided board for a single sided circuit would mean
>at the very least etching around all the drill holes to prevent the
>component leads creating short circuits.

It's easier to just etch the whole board as one would a single sided
board. All copper will be removed from the unwanted side. Business as
usual for TT. For photoetching it would mean exposing and developing
the unwanted side (removing all photoresist) as an extra step before
etching.


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Horne" <chris@...> wrote:
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong folks,
>

Re: Double sided vs single sided fr4

2006-03-02 by fenrir_co

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sbdwag" <sbdwag@...> wrote:
>
> Im getting ready to order some double sided FR-4 from abcfab and
have
> a question.
>
> Right now I do not plan on making very many double sided boards. Its
> more difficult to find single sided pcbs and was wonder how I could
> cover the top side without putting a resist layer on it before I
etch.
> Is there a cheap paint that I could spray on it and remove after
etching.
>
> Any other advantages or disadvantages to having double sided vs
single
> sided pcbs when you are only using one side.
>
> Regards
> Wag
>


As someone else suggested, you could just let the etchant eat the
copper off the other side, thus preventing short circuits and other
problems. This will, however, eat up your etchant twice as fast. If
you don't think it will be a problem, I use Rust-Oleum's 'Painter's
Touch' oil base spray paint from Home Depot when I etch thin brass, as
the resist on the side without the toner transfer. Pick a color that's
a sharp contrast to copper, I'd suggest blue or yellow, so you're sure
it's all cleaned off. Once your board is done, sprinkle a little
acetone on the back, just enough to get all the paint 'wet', and wait
for it to bubble up, then let it dry slightly. If you do it right
(it's not too hard) you can simply pick up a corner of the paint and
lift it off in one sheet. You should let it dry for two or three days
though, otherwise you might wind up with 'semi-wet' paint still stuck
to the board. If it happens, this can be easily wiped off with acetone
on a paper towel.

Don't, however, pre-spray boards months before you plan to etch. After
about two months or so the paint is a bit more difficult to remove,
especially if you wet it with acetone and don't get it off before it
dries again. It's still not that bad, you can use a piece of
hard plastic (break a CD case apart) to scrape it off without damaging
the copper, or use more acetone or paint remover. Also, it may sound
like it might work better, but don't use latex paint, once it's cured
all the way (time depends on brand), you'll need to /sand/ it to get
it off.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Double sided vs single sided fr4

2006-03-02 by JanRwl@AOL.COM

In a message dated 3/2/2006 8:37:50 A.M. Central Standard Time,
sbdwag@... writes:

how I could cover the top side without putting a resist layer on it before I
etch.<<
What, you want to leave "unetched copper" on the TOP? That will short
intermittantly to ALL through-hole lead-wires, and will NEVER work! Unless you
counterbored EVERY hole with a larger-dia. drill, and then made EXTRA certain
not to push parts all the way down against the top copper before soldering on
the bottom! VERY cumbersome! Does NOT compute!

Most plain spray-paint will act as decent resist if you let it DRY, and
don't scratch it during handling. But be careful the "overspray" doesn't mess up
your resist-pattern on the other side! Better: Simply etch-AWAY all the
unneeded copper on the top side!







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Masking, and Making Insulated Areas-Was: Double sided vs single sided fr4

2006-03-04 by kilocycles

I use Scotch Brand Super 33+ electrical tape for board masking.
Unlike many cheaper tapes, it's thin, flexible, stretchable and
consistently sticky. Where I lay two pieces side-by-side, I overlap a
little bit, and I run my fingernail down the line where the tape on
top meets the tape on the bottom. I've never had a leak using ferric
chloride etchant.

I've made a few boards where RF (radio frequency) design practices
required that the top component side be a ground plane. I simply
export the board image into a program like Photoshop or the freeware
Paint.net program, which was developed by Washington State University
and Microsoft. The important thing is that the program must be
capable of doing layers.

I simply create a new layer the exact size of the board image, make it
semitransparent, and copy a bunch of filled circles onto the layer to
the locations where the component leads that are not attached to the
ground plane go though to the bottom layer pads. Then, I turn the
transparency effect "off" (however the particular program refers to
that; in Photoshop, it's variable by percent opacity), collapse or
merge the layers (the board-sized one I created, plus all of the
little layers created by copying the dots), but not the "background"
layer, which is the original board image. At that point the merged
layer can be copied to a new, blank "canvas", which is a new file.

Then I changing the mode on this new image to grayscale and maximize
the contrast (in Photoshop, I just select "Threshold", meaning it's
pure black or pure white). While the layer was transparent, it's
basic color was white, so the image has to be inverted so that I get
the black ground plane with white dots on it.

I then iron the bottom layer onto the board. Once the new ground
plane has been printed, I drill several holes in foil pads where
component leads pass through to the soon-to-be blank circular areas on
the top ground plane. I hold the board and top image up to the light,
align the holes, and iron away, and fix any defects in the transferred
images.

One thing I notice from doing this double-sided procedure the first
couple of times with my Brother 2040 laser printer, just as it's
difficult to get a good image transfer from the paper, or Press-n-Peel
Blue, some degradation of the bottom layer occurs when the board is
heated while ironing the top layer. An image actually gets transferred
to whatever the board is lying on. I never had that problem when I
was using the copy machine for transferring the toner.

Regards,
Ted

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sbdwag" <sbdwag@...> wrote:
---snip---
> Right now I do not plan on making very many double sided boards. Its
> more difficult to find single sided pcbs and was wonder how I could
> cover the top side without putting a resist layer on it before I etch.
> Is there a cheap paint that I could spray on it and remove after
etching.
---snip---
>
> Regards
> Wag
---snip---