Homebrew PCBs

g'day

has anyone tried the cheap laser printers for toner transfer? If so, 
how were the results? Good, bad or indifferent?

tia
pete

Hi, Pete

I'm currently struggling with a Brother 2040 Laser printer that I got
specifically for this PCB work.  I'm currently trying to find the
right combination of media and temperature/pressure to make good
boards consistently.  I've been using Press and Peel Blue toner
transfer media with a copier, but their technical people tell me that
the "new laser printers" have toner with a higher melt point.

I've tried Epson Glossy photo inkjet paper...mediocre, but useable;
and 24 lb. clay-coated inkjet paper...great image, but it rubbed off
while soaking.

I'm trying Dennis' method using inkjet transparency sheets next.

Ted 
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "petere_au" <peter.e@...> wrote:

>
> g'day
> 
> has anyone tried the cheap laser printers for toner transfer? If so, 
> how were the results? Good, bad or indifferent?
> 
> tia
> pete
>

Ted

ta muchly for the reply

can you let me know how it turns our?

they seem to suit my price/performance trade-off - as cheap as 
possible!

pete

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kilocycles" <kilocycles@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi, Pete
> 
> I'm currently struggling with a Brother 2040 Laser printer that I 
got...

 
> > has anyone tried the cheap laser printers for toner transfer? If 
so, 

> > how were the results? Good, bad or indifferent?
> > 
> > tia
> > pete
> >
>

Hi Pete,

Have you considered a used printer?  I bought a used Lexmark Optra 
E+ for $40.  Toner refills (good for a few thousand sheets) are $10 
and a remanufactured drum (good for 20K sheets) is $40, so 
inexpensive to run.  I read that one fellow bought one for $6 at 
Goodwill (a thrift store).

I'm getting good results with my Lexmark and inkjet transparencies.

Regards,
Dennis

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "petere_au" <peter.e@...> 
wrote:
>
> Ted
> 
> ta muchly for the reply
> 
> can you let me know how it turns our?
> 
> they seem to suit my price/performance trade-off - as cheap as 
> possible!
> 
> pete
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kilocycles" <kilocycles@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Pete
> > 
> > I'm currently struggling with a Brother 2040 Laser printer that 
I 
> got...
> 
>  
> > > has anyone tried the cheap laser printers for toner transfer? 
If 

> so, 
> > > how were the results? Good, bad or indifferent?
> > > 
> > > tia
> > > pete

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dl5012" <dl5012@...> wrote:
> Have you considered a used printer?  I bought a used Lexmark Optra 
> E+ for $40.  Toner refills (good for a few thousand sheets) are $10

Big big ditto!

They're a well kept secret for regular B&W printing. I kick myself 
every time I use mine for just figuring that out and having put myself 
through the years of trauma constantly refilling my inkjets, tracking 
down carts and trying to conserve ink. The prints are better and more 
durable too.

The common HP LaserJet (used, but new looking) was only 25 bucks here, 
and it replaced a nice Sharp FO-2850 that some people actually gave me 
(I broke that with a cleaning sheet). The LJ's are around that range 
on eBay (sometimes less), but you'd have some shipping too.

I just figured out the laser thing in the past year (kick,kick)

-George

On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:36:44 +0100, soffee83 <soffee83@...> wrote:

> Big big ditto!
>
>
> They're a well kept secret for regular B&W printing. I kick myself
>
> every time I use mine for just figuring that out and having put myself
>
> through the years of trauma constantly refilling my inkjets, tracking
>
> down carts and trying to conserve ink. The prints are better and more
>
> durable too.
>
>
> The common HP LaserJet (used, but new looking) was only 25 bucks here,
>
> and it replaced a nice Sharp FO-2850 that some people actually gave me
>
> (I broke that with a cleaning sheet). The LJ's are around that range
>
> on eBay (sometimes less), but you'd have some shipping too.
>
>
> I just figured out the laser thing in the past year (kick,kick)
>
>
> -George
>
>

I had bad luck with refill/remanufactured toner for the HP IIID and TT.
Just a thing to keep in mind if something doesn't work out.

ST

Hello Pete,

I just bought (Friday) an HP 1020 Laser Printer from
Office Depot.

The results are amazing. I am using the toner transfer
method with HP Inkjet Photo Paper
(C1846A/Glossy/8.5mil/175g/m2 47lb/25 sheets).

I run it through the laser printer one time, then I
use my iron for one minute on the highest setting. In
between the PCB and iron is a single sheet of paper.
Underneatht the PCB is about 5 sheets of paper, to
keep my table to getting too hot!

Yes, no pin-holes, no bleeding, no nothing...except a
very, hard to get off, toner attached to the PCB!

a friend, Patrick

P.S. The only thing is the residue left behind from
the paper. One friend said to let it soak in
dish-washwer detergent and then use a green scrubbng
pad to take it off with.

I am very happy to finally find a way to make homebrew
(not having to mail order) PCB's. Oh yes, the printer
was an amazing $129.00


--- dl5012 <dl5012@...> wrote:

> Hi Pete,
> 
> Have you considered a used printer?  I bought a used
> Lexmark Optra 
> E+ for $40.  Toner refills (good for a few thousand
> sheets) are $10 
> and a remanufactured drum (good for 20K sheets) is
> $40, so 
> inexpensive to run.  I read that one fellow bought
> one for $6 at 
> Goodwill (a thrift store).
> 
> I'm getting good results with my Lexmark and inkjet
> transparencies.
> 
> Regards,
> Dennis
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "petere_au"
> <peter.e@...> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Ted
> > 
> > ta muchly for the reply
> > 
> > can you let me know how it turns our?
> > 
> > they seem to suit my price/performance trade-off -
> as cheap as 
> > possible!
> > 
> > pete
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kilocycles"
> <kilocycles@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, Pete
> > > 
> > > I'm currently struggling with a Brother 2040
> Laser printer that 
> I 
> > got...
> > 
> >  
> > > > has anyone tried the cheap laser printers for
> toner transfer? 
> If 
> > so, 
> > > > how were the results? Good, bad or
> indifferent?
> > > > 
> > > > tia
> > > > pete
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

Now you've just made me mad, Patrick!  I bought a new laser printer
specifically to do PCBs, and I chose the Brother HL-2040 over the same
HP at the same price because of the cost of toner cartridges, 2400
dpi-interpolated resolution, and I'm not happy about it!  You're
getting good-quality PCB transfers, and I'm not!

I've got one more method to try; I'm getting a couple of inkjet
transparencies to try with it.  Also, something someone said regarding
using a cloth or paper towel over between the iron and the
transparency is something I'm going to try with the Press and Peel
Blue sheets that I still have.  I'm thinking that the pinholes (a LOT
of them in foil-filled areas) may partially be due to uneven contact
between the PCB and the bottom ot the iron due to slight ridges around
the edges of the board from cutting it with my long tin shears.  I get
some areas of very good transfer, and some with serious problems.

I may need to revisit my board prep procedures as well, following the
ideas that have been posted here.  Basically, I've been using a
"greenie" fibre cleaner, and an acetone wipe, and that's it.

I'm glad your boards are working out well, Patrick.

Cheers,
Ted  
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Cambre
<braincambre500@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Pete,
> 
> I just bought (Friday) an HP 1020 Laser Printer from
> Office Depot.
> 
> The results are amazing. I am using the toner transfer
> method with HP Inkjet Photo Paper
> (C1846A/Glossy/8.5mil/175g/m2 47lb/25 sheets).
> 
> I run it through the laser printer one time, then I
> use my iron for one minute on the highest setting. In
> between the PCB and iron is a single sheet of paper.
> Underneatht the PCB is about 5 sheets of paper, to
> keep my table to getting too hot!
> 
> Yes, no pin-holes, no bleeding, no nothing...except a
> very, hard to get off, toner attached to the PCB!
> 
> a friend, Patrick
---snip---

Hi Ted,

Whoa. Easy dos it. Don't give up yet:)

I'm using the Samsung ML-2010 with great results! I'm
using Staples Inkjet paper and a laminator.

The Samsung seems to be using a toner with a higher
softening / melting point. So it needs more time /
temperature to adhere to the copper.

Best oif all the ML-010 cartidge can be refiilesd 3
time for under $10.

TANSTAAFL!

Myc

--- kilocycles <kilocycles@...> wrote:

> Now you've just made me mad, Patrick!  I bought a
> new laser printer
> specifically to do PCBs, and I chose the Brother
> HL-2040 over the same
> HP at the same price because of the cost of toner
> cartridges, 2400
> dpi-interpolated resolution, and I'm not happy about
> it!  You're
> getting good-quality PCB transfers, and I'm not!
> 
> I've got one more method to try; I'm getting a
> couple of inkjet
> transparencies to try with it.  Also, something
> someone said regarding
> using a cloth or paper towel over between the iron
> and the
> transparency is something I'm going to try with the
> Press and Peel
> Blue sheets that I still have.  I'm thinking that
> the pinholes (a LOT
> of them in foil-filled areas) may partially be due
> to uneven contact
> between the PCB and the bottom ot the iron due to
> slight ridges around
> the edges of the board from cutting it with my long
> tin shears.  I get
> some areas of very good transfer, and some with
> serious problems.
> 
> I may need to revisit my board prep procedures as
> well, following the
> ideas that have been posted here.  Basically, I've
> been using a
> "greenie" fibre cleaner, and an acetone wipe, and
> that's it.
> 
> I'm glad your boards are working out well, Patrick.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ted  
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Cambre
> <braincambre500@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Pete,
> > 
> > I just bought (Friday) an HP 1020 Laser Printer
> from
> > Office Depot.
> > 
> > The results are amazing. I am using the toner
> transfer
> > method with HP Inkjet Photo Paper
> > (C1846A/Glossy/8.5mil/175g/m2 47lb/25 sheets).
> > 
> > I run it through the laser printer one time, then
> I
> > use my iron for one minute on the highest setting.
> In
> > between the PCB and iron is a single sheet of
> paper.
> > Underneatht the PCB is about 5 sheets of paper, to
> > keep my table to getting too hot!
> > 
> > Yes, no pin-holes, no bleeding, no
> nothing...except a
> > very, hard to get off, toner attached to the PCB!
> > 
> > a friend, Patrick
> ---snip---
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>I had bad luck with refill/remanufactured toner

Stefan, Thanks! I think I've got that noted from an older thread, but 
so far the original owner's cart is holding up (I think it's an HP). 
I'll try to get the same type when (if!) the day comes.

Ted (and all),

Is it still possible that you might get lucky with a cheap (eBay) 
brand of replacement toner to resolve the problem? Plus, those laser 
rigs are so great, that you've at least got a really nice machine for 
regular prints even if you grab a cheap old one for this. 

FWIW, the 6L only does 600 dpi. I'm usually doing .016" traces, which 
can often ride between IC pins, and I'm OK. Ironically, the thin stuff 
is what I almost never have trouble with.

I mentioned some stuff about wet paper towels, but that was on regular 
paper transfers. I was having a lot of trouble with the paper cooling 
too quickly (often with metal xfers), and bubbling or lifting while it 
cooled. I was doing that on the final passes. (Just made me realize I 
can't remember what the heck it was that resolved the issue. Now I'm 
finally needing to do my next board.)

Yes, those edges are a PITA. I usually hit with a file at a really 
shallow angle (almost parallel to the board), and I'm trying to keep 
in a habit of either not running thin traces near the edges, or 
keeping a bit of excess past the borders. Sand paper and belt sanders 
have done really well for burning off the extra afterward.

Good Luck!

George

Myc

Who is your supplier for the refills?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mycroft2152
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:49 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Laser printers fo tt
> 
> 
> Hi Ted,
> 
> Whoa. Easy dos it. Don't give up yet:)
> 
> Best oif all the ML-010 cartidge can be refiilesd 3
> time for under $10.
> 
> TANSTAAFL!
> 
> Myc
>

Hello Sir Ted,

I do believe that you will have to find your 'own way'
in getting good results. And I further believe that
your new printer will work out fine...it's just that
you will finally come out with your own 'style' in
getting that toner to come out right on the PCB.

Here is my story and that way I came up with my own
style...

I read a lot of post here, and finally decided to buy
a laser jet. I also bought a pack of laser
transparencies, being that others had tried that
method. But I did not buy inkjet transparencies, as I
was told. I just didn't want to mess up my new printer
with putting things in it, that could possibly stop it
from working.

So...I worked on that all night long...and the best I
got it...was partial toner on the board and partial
toner still clinging to the bottom of the
transparency. Well, after 6 hours or so, patience was
starting to leave...and I was getting tired.

Right before I decided to go to bed (being around
4:30AM!), I realized I still had some HP Inkjet Photo
Paper left in my drawer. I took a gamble, since it was
not recommended for laser printers.

And would you believe, on the very first try...it came
out unbelievably well! If I did step out on a little
faith, it would never have happened.

My advice to you, is to go through the whole gambit,
and use all the advice here on the board, together
with your own 'good medicine'...and never let your
patience leave you. It will happen, it's just a matter
of time.

I strongly believe that your new printer is just
'waiting' for you to give it the right medicine it
needs! That's all...

Here is the medicine I came up that my printer
needs...

I found out on my printer controls that a real dark
setting can be achieved...so I put it on that. Then
when I got through making my PCB layout in my Paint
Program, I made eight copies of it, in the program.
That way, my sheet of HP paper will have eight designs
on it...being that I could experiment eight times with
my iron...on a single sheet of HP paper. I used
sizzors to cut each one out.

When the HP paper finally came out of the printer, I
noticed that the first few designs were not fully
printed out. I am trying to say that, the toner was
not fully saturating middle areas of my routing
design. So I actually used the 4 and 5 and 6 and 7 and
eight copy of the design. Number 1 and 2 and 3 seemed
not to have enough toner in the middle areas of the
design. That is just the way my printer wants to work.
I had to see that for myself. So using the 4 copy, I
proceeded.

I put a few piece of paper under the PCB and one on
top. I used my iron for around 30 seconds. I then went
to the kitchen with the the PCB. Waiting in the
kitchin, was a pot of boiling water on the stove. I
took my needle-nose pliers and grap a portion of the
PCB, and dipped the rest of the PCB in the boiling
water. I took the first layer off by hand, and also
the second layer. But the third and final layer was
scrubbed off with those green scroubing pads. I found
out that keeping the PCB in boiling hot water, will
keep that third layer loose, and it will come off easy
in boiling water. Very easy... 

I tried many a times to use all different chemical
took take off that third layer, but none worked. That
took some time...

I finally realised and decided to use boiling water.
And amazingly that worked!

So, now I have a PCB that I can truly say, without the
help of the great people here, and putting my own head
into the game...it would never have happened.

I have no doubt...that if you stay with it, and do
everything that you can think off...you will 'skin'
the cat. It's just a matter of time, Sir Tim.

        ....all the best and do let me know how things
are coming along. Dad always said two heads are better
then one...and being a lot of other heads know what's
going on with you...you simply can't lose!

                       ...your friend, Patrick


--- kilocycles <kilocycles@...> wrote:

> Now you've just made me mad, Patrick!  I bought a
> new laser printer
> specifically to do PCBs, and I chose the Brother
> HL-2040 over the same
> HP at the same price because of the cost of toner
> cartridges, 2400
> dpi-interpolated resolution, and I'm not happy about
> it!  You're
> getting good-quality PCB transfers, and I'm not!
> 
> I've got one more method to try; I'm getting a
> couple of inkjet
> transparencies to try with it.  Also, something
> someone said regarding
> using a cloth or paper towel over between the iron
> and the
> transparency is something I'm going to try with the
> Press and Peel
> Blue sheets that I still have.  I'm thinking that
> the pinholes (a LOT
> of them in foil-filled areas) may partially be due
> to uneven contact
> between the PCB and the bottom ot the iron due to
> slight ridges around
> the edges of the board from cutting it with my long
> tin shears.  I get
> some areas of very good transfer, and some with
> serious problems.
> 
> I may need to revisit my board prep procedures as
> well, following the
> ideas that have been posted here.  Basically, I've
> been using a
> "greenie" fibre cleaner, and an acetone wipe, and
> that's it.
> 
> I'm glad your boards are working out well, Patrick.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ted  
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Cambre
> <braincambre500@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Pete,
> > 
> > I just bought (Friday) an HP 1020 Laser Printer
> from
> > Office Depot.
> > 
> > The results are amazing. I am using the toner
> transfer
> > method with HP Inkjet Photo Paper
> > (C1846A/Glossy/8.5mil/175g/m2 47lb/25 sheets).
> > 
> > I run it through the laser printer one time, then
> I
> > use my iron for one minute on the highest setting.
> In
> > between the PCB and iron is a single sheet of
> paper.
> > Underneatht the PCB is about 5 sheets of paper, to
> > keep my table to getting too hot!
> > 
> > Yes, no pin-holes, no bleeding, no
> nothing...except a
> > very, hard to get off, toner attached to the PCB!
> > 
> > a friend, Patrick
> ---snip---
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

Hello Sir Ted,

Here is my first picture of my PCB. It is listed in the PHOTOS
section. The name of it is...

           My first PCB using the toner method

                                      ...your friend, Patrick

P.S. This will give you an idea on how you will have yours looking,
once you find 'your' style! 

                ...all the best, my friend ! ! !



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kilocycles" <kilocycles@...> wrote:

>
> Now you've just made me mad, Patrick!  I bought a new laser printer
> specifically to do PCBs, and I chose the Brother HL-2040 over the same
> HP at the same price because of the cost of toner cartridges, 2400
> dpi-interpolated resolution, and I'm not happy about it!  You're
> getting good-quality PCB transfers, and I'm not!
> 
> I've got one more method to try; I'm getting a couple of inkjet
> transparencies to try with it.  Also, something someone said regarding
> using a cloth or paper towel over between the iron and the
> transparency is something I'm going to try with the Press and Peel
> Blue sheets that I still have.  I'm thinking that the pinholes (a LOT
> of them in foil-filled areas) may partially be due to uneven contact
> between the PCB and the bottom ot the iron due to slight ridges around
> the edges of the board from cutting it with my long tin shears.  I get
> some areas of very good transfer, and some with serious problems.
> 
> I may need to revisit my board prep procedures as well, following the
> ideas that have been posted here.  Basically, I've been using a
> "greenie" fibre cleaner, and an acetone wipe, and that's it.
> 
> I'm glad your boards are working out well, Patrick.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ted  
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Cambre
> <braincambre500@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Pete,
> > 
> > I just bought (Friday) an HP 1020 Laser Printer from
> > Office Depot.
> > 
> > The results are amazing. I am using the toner transfer
> > method with HP Inkjet Photo Paper
> > (C1846A/Glossy/8.5mil/175g/m2 47lb/25 sheets).
> > 
> > I run it through the laser printer one time, then I
> > use my iron for one minute on the highest setting. In
> > between the PCB and iron is a single sheet of paper.
> > Underneatht the PCB is about 5 sheets of paper, to
> > keep my table to getting too hot!
> > 
> > Yes, no pin-holes, no bleeding, no nothing...except a
> > very, hard to get off, toner attached to the PCB!
> > 
> > a friend, Patrick
> ---snip---
>

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 22:03:16 +0100, braincambre500  
<braincambre500@...> wrote:

> Hello Sir Ted,
>
>
> Here is my first picture of my PCB. It is listed in the PHOTOS
>
> section. The name of it is...
>
>
>            My first PCB using the toner method
>
>
>                                       ...your friend, Patrick


can't find it?

ST

Hello my friend Sir ST,

Yes, I am just beginning to find out how to place my pictures in the
PHOTOS section.

I named my album...Patrick's PCBs

This should get you to it, my friend!

                      ...your friend, Patrick



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

>
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 22:03:16 +0100, braincambre500  
> <braincambre500@...> wrote:
> 
> > Hello Sir Ted,
> >
> >
> > Here is my first picture of my PCB. It is listed in the PHOTOS
> >
> > section. The name of it is...
> >
> >
> >            My first PCB using the toner method
> >
> >
> >                                       ...your friend, Patrick
> 
> 
> can't find it?
> 
> ST
>

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 22:24:18 +0100, braincambre500  
<braincambre500@...> wrote:

> Hello my friend Sir ST,
>
>
> Yes, I am just beginning to find out how to place my pictures in the
>
> PHOTOS section.
>
>
> I named my album...Patrick's PCBs
>
>
> This should get you to it, my friend!
>
>
>                       ...your friend, Patrick
>


That looks very crisp, what width are the traces?

ST

Hello Sir ST,

Yes, I just posted a second picture. Do take a look at it. I usually
use .032" for my width. But the .016" line (which is the thinnest line
I can make in my Windows Paint Program, does well also.

If I can be of any more assistance, do not hesistate to call upon me,
my friend!

                                     ...your friend, Patrick


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

>
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 22:24:18 +0100, braincambre500  
> <braincambre500@...> wrote:
> 
> > Hello my friend Sir ST,
> >
> >
> > Yes, I am just beginning to find out how to place my pictures in the
> >
> > PHOTOS section.
> >
> >
> > I named my album...Patrick's PCBs
> >
> >
> > This should get you to it, my friend!
> >
> >
> >                       ...your friend, Patrick
> >
> 
> 
> That looks very crisp, what width are the traces?
> 
> ST
>

Hi Randy,

I found the refill kit  on Ebay:

<http://search.ebay.com/toner-refill-2010_W0QQcatrefZC6QQcoactionZcompareQQcoentrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQfromZR10QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQfstypeZ1QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsacatZQ2d1QQsaprchiZQQsaprcloZQQssPageNameZRC0021>

Haven't bough it yet, my ML-2010 is brand new, but
this is what I will be buying.There are others.

Myc

--- Randy Ledyard <rll_groups@...> wrote:

> Myc
> 
> Who is your supplier for the refills?
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> Mycroft2152
> > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:49 PM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Laser printers fo
> tt
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Ted,
> > 
> > Whoa. Easy dos it. Don't give up yet:)
> > 
> > Best oif all the ML-010 cartidge can be refiilesd
> 3
> > time for under $10.
> > 
> > TANSTAAFL!
> > 
> > Myc
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
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sir Patrick,

A wise and noble explanation! 

As you have said, there is no holy grail in the toner
transfer process. 

Search for what will give you the results you require.

The repeated ballads of the unsuccessful quests take a
toll on one's spirit..

Too many knights revell in their failed exploits. over
and over again....

The key to the successful quest is an unfailing
prepartion and process


TANSTAAFL!

Sir Mycroft







--- Patrick Cambre <braincambre500@...> wrote:

> Hello Sir Ted,
> 
> I do believe that you will have to find your 'own
> way'
> in getting good results. And I further believe that
> your new printer will work out fine...it's just that
> you will finally come out with your own 'style' in
> getting that toner to come out right on the PCB.
> 
> Here is my story and that way I came up with my own
> style...
> 
> I read a lot of post here, and finally decided to
> buy
> a laser jet. I also bought a pack of laser
> transparencies, being that others had tried that
> method. But I did not buy inkjet transparencies, as
> I
> was told. I just didn't want to mess up my new
> printer
> with putting things in it, that could possibly stop
> it
> from working.
> 
> So...I worked on that all night long...and the best
> I
> got it...was partial toner on the board and partial
> toner still clinging to the bottom of the
> transparency. Well, after 6 hours or so, patience
> was
> starting to leave...and I was getting tired.
> 
> Right before I decided to go to bed (being around
> 4:30AM!), I realized I still had some HP Inkjet
> Photo
> Paper left in my drawer. I took a gamble, since it
> was
> not recommended for laser printers.
> 
> And would you believe, on the very first try...it
> came
> out unbelievably well! If I did step out on a little
> faith, it would never have happened.
> 
> My advice to you, is to go through the whole gambit,
> and use all the advice here on the board, together
> with your own 'good medicine'...and never let your
> patience leave you. It will happen, it's just a
> matter
> of time.
> 
> I strongly believe that your new printer is just
> 'waiting' for you to give it the right medicine it
> needs! That's all...
> 
> Here is the medicine I came up that my printer
> needs...
> 
> I found out on my printer controls that a real dark
> setting can be achieved...so I put it on that. Then
> when I got through making my PCB layout in my Paint
> Program, I made eight copies of it, in the program.
> That way, my sheet of HP paper will have eight
> designs
> on it...being that I could experiment eight times
> with
> my iron...on a single sheet of HP paper. I used
> sizzors to cut each one out.
> 
> When the HP paper finally came out of the printer, I
> noticed that the first few designs were not fully
> printed out. I am trying to say that, the toner was
> not fully saturating middle areas of my routing
> design. So I actually used the 4 and 5 and 6 and 7
> and
> eight copy of the design. Number 1 and 2 and 3
> seemed
> not to have enough toner in the middle areas of the
> design. That is just the way my printer wants to
> work.
> I had to see that for myself. So using the 4 copy, I
> proceeded.
> 
> I put a few piece of paper under the PCB and one on
> top. I used my iron for around 30 seconds. I then
> went
> to the kitchen with the the PCB. Waiting in the
> kitchin, was a pot of boiling water on the stove. I
> took my needle-nose pliers and grap a portion of the
> PCB, and dipped the rest of the PCB in the boiling
> water. I took the first layer off by hand, and also
> the second layer. But the third and final layer was
> scrubbed off with those green scroubing pads. I
> found
> out that keeping the PCB in boiling hot water, will
> keep that third layer loose, and it will come off
> easy
> in boiling water. Very easy... 
> 
> I tried many a times to use all different chemical
> took take off that third layer, but none worked.
> That
> took some time...
> 
> I finally realised and decided to use boiling water.
> And amazingly that worked!
> 
> So, now I have a PCB that I can truly say, without
> the
> help of the great people here, and putting my own
> head
> into the game...it would never have happened.
> 
> I have no doubt...that if you stay with it, and do
> everything that you can think off...you will 'skin'
> the cat. It's just a matter of time, Sir Tim.
> 
>         ....all the best and do let me know how
> things
> are coming along. Dad always said two heads are
> better
> then one...and being a lot of other heads know
> what's
> going on with you...you simply can't lose!
> 
>                        ...your friend, Patrick
> 
> 
> --- kilocycles <kilocycles@...> wrote:
> 
> > Now you've just made me mad, Patrick!  I bought a
> > new laser printer
> > specifically to do PCBs, and I chose the Brother
> > HL-2040 over the same
> > HP at the same price because of the cost of toner
> > cartridges, 2400
> > dpi-interpolated resolution, and I'm not happy
> about
> > it!  You're
> > getting good-quality PCB transfers, and I'm not!
> > 
> > I've got one more method to try; I'm getting a
> > couple of inkjet
> > transparencies to try with it.  Also, something
> > someone said regarding
> > using a cloth or paper towel over between the iron
> > and the
> > transparency is something I'm going to try with
> the
> > Press and Peel
> > Blue sheets that I still have.  I'm thinking that
> > the pinholes (a LOT
> > of them in foil-filled areas) may partially be due
> > to uneven contact
> > between the PCB and the bottom ot the iron due to
> > slight ridges around
> > the edges of the board from cutting it with my
> long
> > tin shears.  I get
> > some areas of very good transfer, and some with
> > serious problems.
> > 
> > I may need to revisit my board prep procedures as
> > well, following the
> > ideas that have been posted here.  Basically, I've
> > been using a
> > "greenie" fibre cleaner, and an acetone wipe, and
> > that's it.
> > 
> > I'm glad your boards are working out well,
> Patrick.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Ted  
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Patrick
> Cambre
> > <braincambre500@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello Pete,
> > > 
> > > I just bought (Friday) an HP 1020 Laser Printer
> > from
> > > Office Depot.
> > > 
> > > The results are amazing. I am using the toner
> > transfer
> > > method with HP Inkjet Photo Paper
> > > (C1846A/Glossy/8.5mil/175g/m2 47lb/25 sheets).
> > > 
> > > I run it through the laser printer one time,
> then
> > I
> > > use my iron for one minute on the highest
> setting.
> > In
> > > between the PCB and iron is a single sheet of
> > paper.
> > > Underneatht the PCB is about 5 sheets of paper,
> to
> > > keep my table to getting too hot!
> > > 
> 
=== message truncated ===


__________________________________________________
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In response to kilocycles, as I mentioned in my longer post above, I 
tried the toner transfer method with both transparencies and laser 
paper with a few Brother all-in-one printers on demo at the local 
Office Depot. None of them would transfer using a laminator or iron. 
The Brother seems to have either a much higher fusion temperature, or 
simply a different kind of toner. I suspect more that it's a different 
kind of toner that doesn't work like other printers, since Brother 
tends to be a 'cheaper' brand. If it is, however, a temperature 
difference, I would also reccomend not using it with Press'n'Peel, as 
I have seen this melt in a few copiers/printers that have higher 
temperatures than most do.

Hi,

Tonight I got very good results with a Brother 2040 laser that I got 
recently. I used Kodak Ultimate Picture Paper, and a Techno LM1910 
laminator.

The paper is some that I've had sitting around for a couple of years... 
borderless 4x6. The laser printer and laminator I bought at Fry's over 
the holidays. I forget the exact price, but I think it was a little 
over $100 for both.

After scrubbing the board with 2000 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper, I ran 
the paper through the laminator 4 times on the highest heat setting, 
and on the "foil" setting. The board was 1/16" single sided that I 
bought from MPJA. The laminator didn't really choke on the board, 
although I suspect it's not really designed for something that thick. I 
had put the picture paper and board inside a folded sheet of ordinary 
laser printer paper.

After the four passes, the Kodak picture paper was stuck to the laser 
printer paper, and also the board. After dunking in cold water, I 
carefully peeled off the picture paper (it took about 20 seconds, I 
think). It came off cleanly, leaving almost all of the toner on the 
board.

I'm not that experienced with TT, so I don't know how repeatable this 
is, but I'm very happy with this experiment.

Kevin


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@...m, "fenrir_co" <fenrir@...> wrote:
>
> In response to kilocycles, as I mentioned in my longer post above, I 
> tried the toner transfer method with both transparencies and laser 
> paper with a few Brother all-in-one printers on demo at the local 
> Office Depot. None of them would transfer using a laminator or iron. 
> The Brother seems to have either a much higher fusion temperature, or 
> simply a different kind of toner. I suspect more that it's a 
different 

> kind of toner that doesn't work like other printers, since Brother 
> tends to be a 'cheaper' brand. If it is, however, a temperature 
> difference, I would also reccomend not using it with Press'n'Peel, as 
> I have seen this melt in a few copiers/printers that have higher 
> temperatures than most do.
>

Patrick,
The board looks good.  I'll have to try your boiling water technique!
Ted
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Cambre
<braincambre500@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Sir Ted,
> 
> I do believe that you will have to find your 'own way'
> in getting good results. And I further believe that
> your new printer will work out fine...it's just that
> you will finally come out with your own 'style' in
> getting that toner to come out right on the PCB.
> 
> Here is my story and that way I came up with my own
> style...
---snip---

Kevin,
Gee, I paid more than that for the 2040!  I think I'll invest in a
laminator rather than trying to find an iron that doens't have steam
holes.  Something tells me that the only one I'd be able to find these
days with no steam capability would be an antique that you heat in the
fireplace!

Do you think that 1/16"-thick PCB stock is about the thickest the
laminator can handle?  Please share your future results with the
group.  I'll start looking for a laminator; I believe that there are
some additional recommendations here in the group files.

Cheers,
Ted

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Morgan" <prizes@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> Tonight I got very good results with a Brother 2040 laser that I got 
> recently. I used Kodak Ultimate Picture Paper, and a Techno LM1910 
> laminator.
> 
> The paper is some that I've had sitting around for a couple of years... 
> borderless 4x6. The laser printer and laminator I bought at Fry's over 
> the holidays. I forget the exact price, but I think it was a little 
> over $100 for both.
> 
> After scrubbing the board with 2000 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper, I ran 
> the paper through the laminator 4 times on the highest heat setting, 
> and on the "foil" setting. The board was 1/16" single sided that I 
> bought from MPJA. The laminator didn't really choke on the board, 
> although I suspect it's not really designed for something that thick. I 
> had put the picture paper and board inside a folded sheet of ordinary 
> laser printer paper.
> 
> After the four passes, the Kodak picture paper was stuck to the laser 
> printer paper, and also the board. After dunking in cold water, I 
> carefully peeled off the picture paper (it took about 20 seconds, I 
> think). It came off cleanly, leaving almost all of the toner on the 
> board.
> 
> I'm not that experienced with TT, so I don't know how repeatable this 
> is, but I'm very happy with this experiment.
> 
> Kevin
---snip---

Hi Kevin,

Isn't it great when a plan comes together!

You've found the right combination of printer, paper and laminator 
right away. Usually it takews a lot of trial and error to acheive 
your results.

It sounds like the Techno LM 1910 is the same as the XEROX XRX 1910 
laminator. It works great, doesn't it. It provides the right amount 
of heat at the foil setting.

TANSTAAFL!

Myc
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Morgan" <prizes@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> Tonight I got very good results with a Brother 2040 laser that I 
got 
> recently. I used Kodak Ultimate Picture Paper, and a Techno LM1910 
> laminator.
> 
> The paper is some that I've had sitting around for a couple of 
years... 
> borderless 4x6. The laser printer and laminator I bought at Fry's 
over 
> the holidays. I forget the exact price, but I think it was a 
little 
> over $100 for both.
> 
> After scrubbing the board with 2000 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper, I 
ran 
> the paper through the laminator 4 times on the highest heat 
setting, 
> and on the "foil" setting. The board was 1/16" single sided that I 
> bought from MPJA. The laminator didn't really choke on the board, 
> although I suspect it's not really designed for something that 
thick. I 
> had put the picture paper and board inside a folded sheet of 
ordinary 
> laser printer paper.
> 
> After the four passes, the Kodak picture paper was stuck to the 
laser 
> printer paper, and also the board. After dunking in cold water, I 
> carefully peeled off the picture paper (it took about 20 seconds, 
I 
> think). It came off cleanly, leaving almost all of the toner on 
the 
> board.
> 
> I'm not that experienced with TT, so I don't know how repeatable 
this 
> is, but I'm very happy with this experiment.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fenrir_co" <fenrir@> wrote:
> >
> > In response to kilocycles, as I mentioned in my longer post 
above, I 
> > tried the toner transfer method with both transparencies and 
laser 
> > paper with a few Brother all-in-one printers on demo at the 
local 
> > Office Depot. None of them would transfer using a laminator or 
iron. 
> > The Brother seems to have either a much higher fusion 
temperature, or 
> > simply a different kind of toner. I suspect more that it's a 
> different 
> > kind of toner that doesn't work like other printers, since 
Brother 
> > tends to be a 'cheaper' brand. If it is, however, a temperature 
> > difference, I would also reccomend not using it with 
Press'n'Peel, as 

> > I have seen this melt in a few copiers/printers that have higher 
> > temperatures than most do.
> >
>

Hello Sir Ted,

Yes, how is your 'style' coming along? I am sure you are making
headway. It just a matter of having fun and patience at the same time!

It's always good to hear of everyones report...on what they are doing.
It give us new ideas...and that's the name of the game!

Do keep us abreast of your fun journey, my friend! We all want to see
you find your unique techniques!

                                      ...your friend, Patrick




--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kilocycles" <kilocycles@...> wrote:

>
> Patrick,
> The board looks good.  I'll have to try your boiling water technique!
> Ted
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Cambre
> <braincambre500@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Sir Ted,
> > 
> > I do believe that you will have to find your 'own way'
> > in getting good results. And I further believe that
> > your new printer will work out fine...it's just that
> > you will finally come out with your own 'style' in
> > getting that toner to come out right on the PCB.
> > 
> > Here is my story and that way I came up with my own
> > style...
> ---snip---
>

Hi Ted,

I posted a couple of pictures to the group.

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/photos/browse/a89e?c=

The board layout uses some very wide traces because I wasn't really 
expecting the results to be that good. I think the traces are 25 mil 
or 30 mil. There is some very fine lettering at the bottom of the 
board that did not transfer completely, but I did not expect that to 
come out at all, so it was a pleasant surprise.

I used the same method for the top markings, but they show an 
incomplete transfer. I think that's because I didn't really make much 
of an effort to prepare the surface, and if it was important to me, I 
would have redone it.

I don't know if 1/16'th is the thickest the laminator can handle, but 
it's probably as thick as I'm ever going to use.

Kevin



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kilocycles" <kilocycles@...> 
wrote:
>
> Kevin,
> Gee, I paid more than that for the 2040!  I think I'll invest in a
> laminator rather than trying to find an iron that doens't have steam
> holes.  Something tells me that the only one I'd be able to find 
these
> days with no steam capability would be an antique that you heat in 
the
> fireplace!
> 
> Do you think that 1/16"-thick PCB stock is about the thickest the
> laminator can handle?  Please share your future results with the
> group.  I'll start looking for a laminator; I believe that there are
> some additional recommendations here in the group files.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ted
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Morgan" <prizes@> 
wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Tonight I got very good results with a Brother 2040 laser that I 
got 
> > recently. I used Kodak Ultimate Picture Paper, and a Techno 
LM1910 
> > laminator.
> > 
> > The paper is some that I've had sitting around for a couple of 
years... 
> > borderless 4x6. The laser printer and laminator I bought at Fry's 
over 
> > the holidays. I forget the exact price, but I think it was a 
little 
> > over $100 for both.
> > 
> > After scrubbing the board with 2000 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper, I 
ran 
> > the paper through the laminator 4 times on the highest heat 
setting, 
> > and on the "foil" setting. The board was 1/16" single sided that 
I 
> > bought from MPJA. The laminator didn't really choke on the board, 
> > although I suspect it's not really designed for something that 
thick. I 
> > had put the picture paper and board inside a folded sheet of 
ordinary 
> > laser printer paper.
> > 
> > After the four passes, the Kodak picture paper was stuck to the 
laser 
> > printer paper, and also the board. After dunking in cold water, I 
> > carefully peeled off the picture paper (it took about 20 seconds, 
I 
> > think). It came off cleanly, leaving almost all of the toner on 
the 
> > board.
> > 
> > I'm not that experienced with TT, so I don't know how repeatable 
this 

> > is, but I'm very happy with this experiment.
> > 
> > Kevin
> ---snip---
>

Hi Myc,

LOL. This is not my first try. I just haven't been reporting the 
failures!

Before the laser printer, I'd had some marginal success with 
photocopying onto the Staples paper at Kinko's, but it was a real 
pain, and the results were not that great. I had to do a lot of 
touchup, and then afterwards, I found that the image had been 
stretched, so I couldn't use my mill to drill the holes.

I've also had very good success with isolation milling, using the 
cutters from Think and Tinker and my home built CNC, but I don't 
think that would work very well for the smaller SMD packages, so I've 
been wanting to find a way to get TT to work for me.

Kevin


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mycroft2152" <mycroft2152@...> 
wrote:

>
> Hi Kevin,
> 
> Isn't it great when a plan comes together!
> 
> You've found the right combination of printer, paper and laminator 
> right away. Usually it takews a lot of trial and error to acheive 
> your results.
> 
> It sounds like the Techno LM 1910 is the same as the XEROX XRX 1910 
> laminator. It works great, doesn't it. It provides the right amount 
> of heat at the foil setting.
> 
> TANSTAAFL!
> 
> Myc

Hi Kevin,

Doesn't matter, you found a process that worked for
you. Thats the trick everyone forgets, get it working
for themselves and not try to 'convert' everyone else
to their process. Share their success but leave the
preaching at home. :)

I thought the holes were drilled with a cnc, they were
very straight. I'm considering building a small cnc
driller. Any photos or plans for yours?

There was a thread here but it got swamped.

TANSTAAFL!

Myc


--- Kevin Morgan <prizes@...> wrote:

> Hi Myc,
> 
> LOL. This is not my first try. I just haven't been
> reporting the 
> failures!
> 
> Before the laser printer, I'd had some marginal
> success with 
> photocopying onto the Staples paper at Kinko's, but
> it was a real 
> pain, and the results were not that great. I had to
> do a lot of 
> touchup, and then afterwards, I found that the image
> had been 
> stretched, so I couldn't use my mill to drill the
> holes.
> 
> I've also had very good success with isolation
> milling, using the 
> cutters from Think and Tinker and my home built CNC,
> but I don't 
> think that would work very well for the smaller SMD
> packages, so I've 
> been wanting to find a way to get TT to work for me.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mycroft2152"
> <mycroft2152@...> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Kevin,
> > 
> > Isn't it great when a plan comes together!
> > 
> > You've found the right combination of printer,
> paper and laminator 
> > right away. Usually it takews a lot of trial and
> error to acheive 
> > your results.
> > 
> > It sounds like the Techno LM 1910 is the same as
> the XEROX XRX 1910 
> > laminator. It works great, doesn't it. It provides
> the right amount 
> > of heat at the foil setting.
> > 
> > TANSTAAFL!
> > 
> > Myc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
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Kevin,

the issue with the prints stretching is a real one but as you say only
really critical when using a CNC drill
I use a CNC'd micro mill for most of my drilling now and quickly
discovered this.   
The best mitigation I can suggest is to index near the centre of the
board, that way the errors are halved to each edge. It can make the
difference between being in the pad or outside it..

First off I always have a pad at the centre or near the centre of the
board...

Then I have an MDF board fixed with double sided tape to the mill table. 
I hand drill two of the pcb holes by hand about 1/4 of the distance
from the side of the long edge of the board.

I then align the first board on the MDF and push a couple of broken
off drawing pins into the holes..   they then act as indexing pins for
subsequent boards.

To hold the boards to the MDF I use a couple of old drawing board
spring clips with the rounded edge cut off...  They slide easily under
the MDF in the gap left by the thickness of the double sided tape. The
advantage of these clips is that they clamp firmly, are very low
profile and very very quick to change boards.

I generate the G-code for the drilling with the origin on the centre
pad of the board. I often measure between the two pads which are
furthest from each other on the actual resist layer on the boards and
add a correction factor so that the G-code is generated to be the
average size of the board...  it has been up to 2% out on occasions.

I load up the G-code zero the drill in on the centre pad, set the
origin to the centre of the actual board....   and awayshe goes... 

A bit of a performance but gives good repeatability..   
I do runs of 50 or 100 boards without having to re-zero anything..
and I keep the mdf for the next run of that board.

One of the tasks i keep reminding myself to do is to wire up a decent
buzzer to the driver board and get mach3 to sound the buzzer when the
board is finished....  I tried getting mach to play a wav file but I
run the machine unattended and need the alert to be in the house, not
the workshop...

I must admit to still using and Iron, I haven't got around to using a
laminator but I reckon if it aint broke   why fix it..

Chris  (-=spiyda=-)



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Morgan" <prizes@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Myc,
> 
> LOL. This is not my first try. I just haven't been reporting the 
> failures!
> 
> Before the laser printer, I'd had some marginal success with 
> photocopying onto the Staples paper at Kinko's, but it was a real 
> pain, and the results were not that great. I had to do a lot of 
> touchup, and then afterwards, I found that the image had been 
> stretched, so I couldn't use my mill to drill the holes.
> 
> I've also had very good success with isolation milling, using the 
> cutters from Think and Tinker and my home built CNC, but I don't 
> think that would work very well for the smaller SMD packages, so I've 
> been wanting to find a way to get TT to work for me.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mycroft2152" <mycroft2152@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Kevin,
> > 
> > Isn't it great when a plan comes together!
> > 
> > You've found the right combination of printer, paper and laminator 
> > right away. Usually it takews a lot of trial and error to acheive 
> > your results.
> > 
> > It sounds like the Techno LM 1910 is the same as the XEROX XRX 1910 
> > laminator. It works great, doesn't it. It provides the right amount 
> > of heat at the foil setting.
> > 
> > TANSTAAFL!
> > 
> > Myc
>

Hi Myc,

Here's a picture of my mill.

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/photos/view/a89e?b=4

I don't have any plans for this mill, and I wouldn't recommend this 
design to anyone... it has a number of problems. I'm going to replace 
it eventually. It was built over a month of weekends using ideas I 
gathered from the web.

One good resource is cnczone.com. There's lots of info there.

Also, let me recomment John Kleinbauer's plans. He's a member of this 
group. His website is

http://crankorgan.com

I bought his "Jester" mill plans a few months ago, and they look very 
good. I haven't made the time to build it yet, but I'm very 
impressed, and it's well worth the price.

Kevin



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...> 
wrote:

>
> Hi Kevin,
> 
> Doesn't matter, you found a process that worked for
> you. Thats the trick everyone forgets, get it working
> for themselves and not try to 'convert' everyone else
> to their process. Share their success but leave the
> preaching at home. :)
> 
> I thought the holes were drilled with a cnc, they were
> very straight. I'm considering building a small cnc
> driller. Any photos or plans for yours?
> 
> There was a thread here but it got swamped.
> 
> TANSTAAFL!
> 
> Myc
> 
> 
> --- Kevin Morgan <prizes@...> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Myc,
> > 
> > LOL. This is not my first try. I just haven't been
> > reporting the 
> > failures!
> > 
> > Before the laser printer, I'd had some marginal
> > success with 
> > photocopying onto the Staples paper at Kinko's, but
> > it was a real 
> > pain, and the results were not that great. I had to
> > do a lot of 
> > touchup, and then afterwards, I found that the image
> > had been 
> > stretched, so I couldn't use my mill to drill the
> > holes.
> > 
> > I've also had very good success with isolation
> > milling, using the 
> > cutters from Think and Tinker and my home built CNC,
> > but I don't 
> > think that would work very well for the smaller SMD
> > packages, so I've 
> > been wanting to find a way to get TT to work for me.
> > 
> > Kevin
> > 
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mycroft2152"
> > <mycroft2152@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Kevin,
> > > 
> > > Isn't it great when a plan comes together!
> > > 
> > > You've found the right combination of printer,
> > paper and laminator 
> > > right away. Usually it takews a lot of trial and
> > error to acheive 
> > > your results.
> > > 
> > > It sounds like the Techno LM 1910 is the same as
> > the XEROX XRX 1910 
> > > laminator. It works great, doesn't it. It provides
> > the right amount 
> > > of heat at the foil setting.
> > > 
> > > TANSTAAFL!
> > > 
> > > Myc
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

I've been drooling over the Brute for a while . . . guess I need to 
start scrounging parts and build that thing!

-Dave

Kevin Morgan wrote:

> Hi Myc,
>
> Here's a picture of my mill.
>
> http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/photos/view/a89e?b=4
>
> I don't have any plans for this mill, and I wouldn't recommend this 
> design to anyone... it has a number of problems. I'm going to replace 
> it eventually. It was built over a month of weekends using ideas I 
> gathered from the web.
>
> One good resource is cnczone.com. There's lots of info there.
>
> Also, let me recomment John Kleinbauer's plans. He's a member of this 
> group. His website is
>
> http://crankorgan.com
>
> I bought his "Jester" mill plans a few months ago, and they look very 
> good. I haven't made the time to build it yet, but I'm very 
> impressed, and it's well worth the price.
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...> 
> wrote:
>   
>> Hi Kevin,
>>
>> Doesn't matter, you found a process that worked for
>> you. Thats the trick everyone forgets, get it working
>> for themselves and not try to 'convert' everyone else
>> to their process. Share their success but leave the
>> preaching at home. :)
>>
>> I thought the holes were drilled with a cnc, they were
>> very straight. I'm considering building a small cnc
>> driller. Any photos or plans for yours?
>>
>> There was a thread here but it got swamped.
>>
>> TANSTAAFL!
>>
>> Myc
>>
>>
>> --- Kevin Morgan <prizes@...> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Hi Myc,
>>>
>>> LOL. This is not my first try. I just haven't been
>>> reporting the 
>>> failures!
>>>
>>> Before the laser printer, I'd had some marginal
>>> success with 
>>> photocopying onto the Staples paper at Kinko's, but
>>> it was a real 
>>> pain, and the results were not that great. I had to
>>> do a lot of 
>>> touchup, and then afterwards, I found that the image
>>> had been 
>>> stretched, so I couldn't use my mill to drill the
>>> holes.
>>>
>>> I've also had very good success with isolation
>>> milling, using the 
>>> cutters from Think and Tinker and my home built CNC,
>>> but I don't 
>>> think that would work very well for the smaller SMD
>>> packages, so I've 
>>> been wanting to find a way to get TT to work for me.
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mycroft2152"
>>> <mycroft2152@> 
>>> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Hi Kevin,
>>>>
>>>> Isn't it great when a plan comes together!
>>>>
>>>> You've found the right combination of printer,
>>>>         
>>> paper and laminator 
>>>       
>>>> right away. Usually it takews a lot of trial and
>>>>         
>>> error to acheive 
>>>       
>>>> your results.
>>>>
>>>> It sounds like the Techno LM 1910 is the same as
>>>>         
>>> the XEROX XRX 1910 
>>>       
>>>> laminator. It works great, doesn't it. It provides
>>>>         
>>> the right amount 
>>>       
>>>> of heat at the foil setting.
>>>>
>>>> TANSTAAFL!
>>>>
>>>> Myc
>>>>         
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>

Kevin,
Until I say the last photo, I was stunned at how evenly positioned
your holes were!  I get a daily email digest from the group, so I
hadn't seen your mill yet.  That's really something.  Looking through
the files the other day, I saw some other really impressive CNC-type
machines.  I cannot comprehend the ability of an individual to produce
something like that, even though I spent over 30 years in engineering!

By the way, the transfers looked superb as well!

Cheers,
Ted

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Morgan" <prizes@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Ted,
> 
> I posted a couple of pictures to the group.
> 
> http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/photos/browse/a89e?c=
> 
> The board layout uses some very wide traces because I wasn't really 
> expecting the results to be that good. I think the traces are 25 mil 
> or 30 mil. There is some very fine lettering at the bottom of the 
> board that did not transfer completely, but I did not expect that to 
> come out at all, so it was a pleasant surprise.
> 
> I used the same method for the top markings, but they show an 
> incomplete transfer. I think that's because I didn't really make much 
> of an effort to prepare the surface, and if it was important to me, I 
> would have redone it.
> 
> I don't know if 1/16'th is the thickest the laminator can handle, but 
> it's probably as thick as I'm ever going to use.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kilocycles" <kilocycles@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Kevin,
> > Gee, I paid more than that for the 2040!  I think I'll invest in a
> > laminator rather than trying to find an iron that doens't have steam
> > holes.  Something tells me that the only one I'd be able to find 
> these
> > days with no steam capability would be an antique that you heat in 
> the
> > fireplace!
> > 
> > Do you think that 1/16"-thick PCB stock is about the thickest the
> > laminator can handle?  Please share your future results with the
> > group.  I'll start looking for a laminator; I believe that there are
> > some additional recommendations here in the group files.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Ted
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Morgan" <prizes@> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > Tonight I got very good results with a Brother 2040 laser that I 
> got 
> > > recently. I used Kodak Ultimate Picture Paper, and a Techno 
> LM1910 
> > > laminator.
> > > 
> > > The paper is some that I've had sitting around for a couple of 
> years... 
> > > borderless 4x6. The laser printer and laminator I bought at Fry's 
> over 
> > > the holidays. I forget the exact price, but I think it was a 
> little 
> > > over $100 for both.
> > > 
> > > After scrubbing the board with 2000 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper, I 
> ran 
> > > the paper through the laminator 4 times on the highest heat 
> setting, 
> > > and on the "foil" setting. The board was 1/16" single sided that 
> I 
> > > bought from MPJA. The laminator didn't really choke on the board, 
> > > although I suspect it's not really designed for something that 
> thick. I 
> > > had put the picture paper and board inside a folded sheet of 
> ordinary 
> > > laser printer paper.
> > > 
> > > After the four passes, the Kodak picture paper was stuck to the 
> laser 
> > > printer paper, and also the board. After dunking in cold water, I 
> > > carefully peeled off the picture paper (it took about 20 seconds, 
> I 
> > > think). It came off cleanly, leaving almost all of the toner on 
> the 
> > > board.
> > > 
> > > I'm not that experienced with TT, so I don't know how repeatable 
> this 
> > > is, but I'm very happy with this experiment.
> > > 
> > > Kevin
> > ---snip---
> >
>

Thanks Kevin,

The photo is appreciated. I was looking for one that
was actually built for drilling pcb's.

I've been doing my homework and have read a lot on
CNCZone and other sites.

I was considering Crankorgan's Jester or Brute plans.

I was looking to keep it at the PCB driller KISS
level. something on the order of a 6" x 6 " work area.
Most of the discussions, I've read, have ended up as a
"Tim Taylor - more power!" design.

TANSTAAFL!

Myc



--- Kevin Morgan <prizes@...> wrote:

> Hi Myc,
> 
> Here's a picture of my mill.
> 
>
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/photos/view/a89e?b=4
> 
> I don't have any plans for this mill, and I wouldn't
> recommend this 
> design to anyone... it has a number of problems. I'm
> going to replace 
> it eventually. It was built over a month of weekends
> using ideas I 
> gathered from the web.
> 
> One good resource is cnczone.com. There's lots of
> info there.
> 
> Also, let me recomment John Kleinbauer's plans. He's
> a member of this 
> group. His website is
> 
> http://crankorgan.com
> 
> I bought his "Jester" mill plans a few months ago,
> and they look very 
> good. I haven't made the time to build it yet, but
> I'm very 
> impressed, and it's well worth the price.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

The aluminum channel for the Brute is now availible on
the web. Check Crankorgans site for the link.

Myc

--- David Frascone <dave@...> wrote:

> I've been drooling over the Brute for a while . . .
> guess I need to 
> start scrounging parts and build that thing!
> 
> -Dave
> 
> Kevin Morgan wrote:
> > Hi Myc,
> >
> > Here's a picture of my mill.
> >
> >
>
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/photos/view/a89e?b=4
> >
> > I don't have any plans for this mill, and I
> wouldn't recommend this 
> > design to anyone... it has a number of problems.
> I'm going to replace 
> > it eventually. It was built over a month of
> weekends using ideas I 
> > gathered from the web.
> >
> > One good resource is cnczone.com. There's lots of
> info there.
> >
> > Also, let me recomment John Kleinbauer's plans.
> He's a member of this 
> > group. His website is
> >
> > http://crankorgan.com
> >
> > I bought his "Jester" mill plans a few months ago,
> and they look very 
> > good. I haven't made the time to build it yet, but
> I'm very 
> > impressed, and it's well worth the price.
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mycroft2152
> <mycroft2152@...> 
> > wrote:
> >   
> >> Hi Kevin,
> >>
> >> Doesn't matter, you found a process that worked
> for
> >> you. Thats the trick everyone forgets, get it
> working
> >> for themselves and not try to 'convert' everyone
> else
> >> to their process. Share their success but leave
> the
> >> preaching at home. :)
> >>
> >> I thought the holes were drilled with a cnc, they
> were
> >> very straight. I'm considering building a small
> cnc
> >> driller. Any photos or plans for yours?
> >>
> >> There was a thread here but it got swamped.
> >>
> >> TANSTAAFL!
> >>
> >> Myc
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Kevin Morgan <prizes@...> wrote:
> >>
> >>     
> >>> Hi Myc,
> >>>
> >>> LOL. This is not my first try. I just haven't
> been
> >>> reporting the 
> >>> failures!
> >>>
> >>> Before the laser printer, I'd had some marginal
> >>> success with 
> >>> photocopying onto the Staples paper at Kinko's,
> but
> >>> it was a real 
> >>> pain, and the results were not that great. I had
> to
> >>> do a lot of 
> >>> touchup, and then afterwards, I found that the
> image
> >>> had been 
> >>> stretched, so I couldn't use my mill to drill
> the
> >>> holes.
> >>>
> >>> I've also had very good success with isolation
> >>> milling, using the 
> >>> cutters from Think and Tinker and my home built
> CNC,
> >>> but I don't 
> >>> think that would work very well for the smaller
> SMD
> >>> packages, so I've 
> >>> been wanting to find a way to get TT to work for
> me.
> >>>
> >>> Kevin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com,
> "mycroft2152"
> >>> <mycroft2152@> 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>       
> >>>> Hi Kevin,
> >>>>
> >>>> Isn't it great when a plan comes together!
> >>>>
> >>>> You've found the right combination of printer,
> >>>>         
> >>> paper and laminator 
> >>>       
> >>>> right away. Usually it takews a lot of trial
> and
> >>>>         
> >>> error to acheive 
> >>>       
> >>>> your results.
> >>>>
> >>>> It sounds like the Techno LM 1910 is the same
> as
> >>>>         
> >>> the XEROX XRX 1910 
> >>>       
> >>>> laminator. It works great, doesn't it. It
> provides
> >>>>         
> >>> the right amount 
> >>>       
> >>>> of heat at the foil setting.
> >>>>
> >>>> TANSTAAFL!
> >>>>
> >>>> Myc
> >>>>         
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>       
> >>
> __________________________________________________
> >> Do You Yahoo!?
> >> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> >> http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>
> >>     
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new
> Links, Files, and Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> > If Files or Photos are running short of space,
> post them here:
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >   
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

Mycroft2152 wrote:

> I was looking to keep it at the PCB driller KISS
> level. something on the order of a 6" x 6 " work area.
> Most of the discussions, I've read, have ended up as a
> "Tim Taylor - more power!" design.

Arr arr arr:

http://www.codesuidae.net/images/mill/codemill.jpg

Dave K

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 23:54:42 +0100, Codesuidae <codesuidae@...>  
wrote:

>> Most of the discussions, I've read, have ended up as a
>
>> "Tim Taylor - more power!" design.
>
>
> Arr arr arr:
>
>
> http://www.codesuidae.net/images/mill/codemill.jpg
>


LOL, that's certainly a manly sized spindle motor for PCB drilling ;-)

ST

Hi Ted,

Don't give me so much credit! It never occurred to me that I could 
build my own mill until I saw pictures of someone else's home built 
machine posted on the web. There's lots of info available, and I'd 
bet just about anybody in this group could build one without too much 
trial and error. 

I've been a software engineer all my life, and done a good bit of 
digital and audio circuit hacking, but never anything like that. It's 
a whole new realm for me.

I've learned a lot since joining this group.. I really appreciate all 
the smart people here who are willing to share their ideas.

Kevin

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kilocycles" <kilocycles@...> 
wrote:
>
> Kevin,
> Until I say the last photo, I was stunned at how evenly positioned
> your holes were!  I get a daily email digest from the group, so I
> hadn't seen your mill yet.  That's really something.  Looking 
through
> the files the other day, I saw some other really impressive CNC-type
> machines.  I cannot comprehend the ability of an individual to 
produce
> something like that, even though I spent over 30 years in 
engineering!

> 
> By the way, the transfers looked superb as well!
> 
> Cheers,
> Ted

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the suggestions. Your method sounds pretty good. The 
boards I was complaining about were stretched so much that this 
technique would not have helped. I drilled the holes by hand, and 
only then realized that the sockets wouldn't fit in the holes. Dumb.

I've seen several people post about making large quantities of 
boards. I'm really curious what kind of boards you guys are making. 
All of my boards so far are for personal use. Most are one-offs, 
although there are a few, like stepper motor driver boards, I've made 
in multiples.

Kevin

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Horne" <chris@...> wrote:
>
> Kevin,
> 
> the issue with the prints stretching is a real one but as you say 
only
> really critical when using a CNC drill
> I use a CNC'd micro mill for most of my drilling now and quickly
> discovered this.   
> The best mitigation I can suggest is to index near the centre of the
> board, that way the errors are halved to each edge. It can make the
> difference between being in the pad or outside it..
> 
> First off I always have a pad at the centre or near the centre of 
the
> board...
> 
> Then I have an MDF board fixed with double sided tape to the mill 
table. 
> I hand drill two of the pcb holes by hand about 1/4 of the distance
> from the side of the long edge of the board.
> 
> I then align the first board on the MDF and push a couple of broken
> off drawing pins into the holes..   they then act as indexing pins 
for
> subsequent boards.
> 
> To hold the boards to the MDF I use a couple of old drawing board
> spring clips with the rounded edge cut off...  They slide easily 
under
> the MDF in the gap left by the thickness of the double sided tape. 
The
> advantage of these clips is that they clamp firmly, are very low
> profile and very very quick to change boards.
> 
> I generate the G-code for the drilling with the origin on the centre
> pad of the board. I often measure between the two pads which are
> furthest from each other on the actual resist layer on the boards 
and
> add a correction factor so that the G-code is generated to be the
> average size of the board...  it has been up to 2% out on occasions.
> 
> I load up the G-code zero the drill in on the centre pad, set the
> origin to the centre of the actual board....   and awayshe goes... 
> 
> A bit of a performance but gives good repeatability..   
> I do runs of 50 or 100 boards without having to re-zero anything..
> and I keep the mdf for the next run of that board.
> 
> One of the tasks i keep reminding myself to do is to wire up a 
decent
> buzzer to the driver board and get mach3 to sound the buzzer when 
the
> board is finished....  I tried getting mach to play a wav file but I
> run the machine unattended and need the alert to be in the house, 
not
> the workshop...
> 
> I must admit to still using and Iron, I haven't got around to using 
a

> laminator but I reckon if it aint broke   why fix it..
> 
> Chris  (-=spiyda=-)
> 
>

I followed at the link to John Kleinbauer's site this morning, and
couldn't have been more surprised if I'd found plans to build my own
spacecraft!  I had no idea that hobby-level CNC existed.  This falls
under the category of "I've gotta get me one of those!"

Don't sell yourself short, Kevin.  I'm assuming you still had to
execute the design and build it.

Cheers,
Ted
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Morgan" <prizes@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Ted,
> 
> Don't give me so much credit! It never occurred to me that I could 
> build my own mill until I saw pictures of someone else's home built 
> machine posted on the web. There's lots of info available, and I'd 
> bet just about anybody in this group could build one without too much 
> trial and error. 
> 
> I've been a software engineer all my life, and done a good bit of 
> digital and audio circuit hacking, but never anything like that. It's 
> a whole new realm for me.
> 
> I've learned a lot since joining this group.. I really appreciate all 
> the smart people here who are willing to share their ideas.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kilocycles" <kilocycles@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Kevin,
> > Until I say the last photo, I was stunned at how evenly positioned
> > your holes were!  I get a daily email digest from the group, so I
> > hadn't seen your mill yet.  That's really something.  Looking 
> through
> > the files the other day, I saw some other really impressive CNC-type
> > machines.  I cannot comprehend the ability of an individual to 
> produce
> > something like that, even though I spent over 30 years in 
> engineering!
> > 
> > By the way, the transfers looked superb as well!
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Ted
>

Hi Ted,

There are quite a few Yahoo groups about CNC machines
with a lot of good info and helpful people.

Search the Yahoo groups to find them.

Myc

--- kilocycles <kilocycles@...> wrote:

> I followed at the link to John Kleinbauer's site
> this morning, and
> couldn't have been more surprised if I'd found plans
> to build my own
> spacecraft!  I had no idea that hobby-level CNC
> existed.  This falls
> under the category of "I've gotta get me one of
> those!"
> 
> Don't sell yourself short, Kevin.  I'm assuming you
> still had to
> execute the design and build it.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ted
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Morgan"
> <prizes@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ted,
> > 
> > Don't give me so much credit! It never occurred to
> me that I could 
> > build my own mill until I saw pictures of someone
> else's home built 
> > machine posted on the web. There's lots of info
> available, and I'd 
> > bet just about anybody in this group could build
> one without too much 
> > trial and error. 
> > 
> > I've been a software engineer all my life, and
> done a good bit of 
> > digital and audio circuit hacking, but never
> anything like that. It's 
> > a whole new realm for me.
> > 
> > I've learned a lot since joining this group.. I
> really appreciate all 
> > the smart people here who are willing to share
> their ideas.
> > 
> > Kevin
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kilocycles"
> <kilocycles@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Kevin,
> > > Until I say the last photo, I was stunned at how
> evenly positioned
> > > your holes were!  I get a daily email digest
> from the group, so I
> > > hadn't seen your mill yet.  That's really
> something.  Looking 
> > through
> > > the files the other day, I saw some other really
> impressive CNC-type
> > > machines.  I cannot comprehend the ability of an
> individual to 
> > produce
> > > something like that, even though I spent over 30
> years in 
> > engineering!
> > > 
> > > By the way, the transfers looked superb as well!
> > > 
> > > Cheers,
> > > Ted
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

I'll definitely do that; thanks for the tip.
Ted

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Ted,
> 
> There are quite a few Yahoo groups about CNC machines
> with a lot of good info and helpful people.
> 
> Search the Yahoo groups to find them.
> 
> Myc
> 
> --- kilocycles <kilocycles@...> wrote:
> 
> > I followed at the link to John Kleinbauer's site
> > this morning, and
> > couldn't have been more surprised if I'd found plans
> > to build my own
> > spacecraft!  I had no idea that hobby-level CNC
> > existed.  This falls
> > under the category of "I've gotta get me one of
> > those!"
> > 
> > Don't sell yourself short, Kevin.  I'm assuming you
> > still had to
> > execute the design and build it.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Ted
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Morgan"
> > <prizes@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Ted,
> > > 
> > > Don't give me so much credit! It never occurred to
> > me that I could 
> > > build my own mill until I saw pictures of someone
> > else's home built 
> > > machine posted on the web. There's lots of info
> > available, and I'd 
> > > bet just about anybody in this group could build
> > one without too much 
> > > trial and error. 
> > > 
> > > I've been a software engineer all my life, and
> > done a good bit of 
> > > digital and audio circuit hacking, but never
> > anything like that. It's 
> > > a whole new realm for me.
> > > 
> > > I've learned a lot since joining this group.. I
> > really appreciate all 
> > > the smart people here who are willing to share
> > their ideas.
> > > 
> > > Kevin
> > > 
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kilocycles"
> > <kilocycles@> 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Kevin,
> > > > Until I say the last photo, I was stunned at how
> > evenly positioned
> > > > your holes were!  I get a daily email digest
> > from the group, so I
> > > > hadn't seen your mill yet.  That's really
> > something.  Looking 
> > > through
> > > > the files the other day, I saw some other really
> > impressive CNC-type
> > > > machines.  I cannot comprehend the ability of an
> > individual to 
> > > produce
> > > > something like that, even though I spent over 30
> > years in 
> > > engineering!
> > > > 
> > > > By the way, the transfers looked superb as well!
> > > > 
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Ted
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
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>

Manly spindle indeed... but it works great! I have the same setup.

The only question I have is how fast to feed the drill bit into the PCB? I
do not want to feed them too fast so they snap. Yet I do not want to feed
them too slow and thus unnecessarily slow down the drill process and dull
the bits. Does anybody know the recommended chip load per tooth for
PCB-sized tungsten carbide drill bits? I drill at 5 inches per minute at
10000 RPM, but I suspect that's a bit too slow.

Vlad

On 2/14/06, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 23:54:42 +0100, Codesuidae <codesuidae@...>
> wrote:
>
> >> Most of the discussions, I've read, have ended up as a
> >
> >> "Tim Taylor - more power!" design.
> >
> >
> > Arr arr arr:
> >
> >
> > http://www.codesuidae.net/images/mill/codemill.jpg
> >
>
>
> LOL, that's certainly a manly sized spindle motor for PCB drilling ;-)
>
> ST
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Vlad's shop
http://www.krupin.net/serendipity/index.php?/categories/2-metalworking


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