Homebrew_PCBs

> I've just made a nice little board - it's a Philips
> LPC2106 ARM system on a
> 42 mm by 55 mm PCB. It's all SMT apart from the
> power connector, JTAG and
> push-button. I'll post a picture when I get my
> camera batteries charged.
> I've got some of the new LPC2103 chips on order and
> I'll be making another
> board for one of those (they are almost
> pin-compatible with the '2106), a
> 128x64 graphics display and an nRF2401A wireless
> chip. The present board is
> just to make sure that the basic system works and
> that my PCB process can
> cope with fine-pitch devices. The board looks
> perfect - no shorts anywhere.
>
> Leon
> --
> Leon Heller, G1HSM
> leon.heller@...
> http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
>
>

>
> Hello Sir Leon,
>
> In the future I will be buying a laser printer and
> start making my PCB's using the tone transfer method.
> Is this is what you are also using?
>
> a friend,
>
> Patrick

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dl5012" <dl5012@...> wrote:
<snip>
> The above link is a collage showing (clockwise from top left): 1)
> oner transfered to board - it's only 1.4" x 1.6", but I've done
> boards around 4 X 6 with the same results, 2) artwork on
> transparency, 3) transparency after toner transfer (no significant
> amount of toner left behind), and 4) the etched/drilled board.
>
Dennis,
Do you re-use the transparencies, or use new ones each time?
Richard

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Cambre" <braincambre500@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Best PCB yet!


> Hello Sir Leon,
>
> In the future I will be buying a laser printer and
> start making my PCB's using the tone transfer method.
> Is this is what you are also using?

I use the conventional technique with photo-resistand UV exposure.

I used to use a laser printer, but I get much better results with an inkjet.

Leon




---
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to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are
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> Dennis,
> Do you re-use the transparencies, or use new ones each time?
> Richard

> Dennis,
> Do you re-use the transparencies, or use new ones each time?
> Richard

> I've settled on inket transparencies.

> I remove the toner only from areas where I solder, leaving the
> rest as a poor man's solder mask.

> I like to make my holes small and like the toner to start closing
> them so the holes serve as pilot holes during drilling.

> I have had poor results using laser copies.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrick Cambre" <braincambre500@...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 7:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Best PCB yet!
>
>
> > Hello Sir Leon,
> >
> > In the future I will be buying a laser printer and
> > start making my PCB's using the tone transfer
> method.
> > Is this is what you are also using?
>
> I use the conventional technique with
> photo-resistand UV exposure.
>
> I used to use a laser printer, but I get much better
> results with an inkjet.
>
> Leon
>
>
>
>
> ---
> [This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is
> your responsibility
> to maintain up to date anti virus software on the
> device that you are
> currently using to read this email. ]
>
>

> Hello Sir Leon,
>
> In the future I will be buying a laser printer and
> start making my PCB's using the tone transfer
> method.
> Is this is what you are also using?
>
> a friend,
>
> Patrick
>
>
> --- Leon Heller <leon.heller@...> wrote:
>
> > I've just made a nice little board - it's a
> Philips
> > LPC2106 ARM system on a
> > 42 mm by 55 mm PCB. It's all SMT apart from the
> > power connector, JTAG and
> > push-button. I'll post a picture when I get my
> > camera batteries charged.
> > I've got some of the new LPC2103 chips on order
> and
> > I'll be making another
> > board for one of those (they are almost
> > pin-compatible with the '2106), a
> > 128x64 graphics display and an nRF2401A wireless
> > chip. The present board is
> > just to make sure that the basic system works and
> > that my PCB process can
> > cope with fine-pitch devices. The board looks
> > perfect - no shorts anywhere.
> >
> > Leon
> > --
> > Leon Heller, G1HSM
> > leon.heller@...
> > http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>

> Hi Patrick,
>
> I've tried a couple different laser printers and
> haven't noticed any
> difference in the transfers. I'm using a Lexmark
> Optra E+ that I
> picked up for $40 and am running with a toner
> refill. Pictures of a
> board I did this afternoon can be found here -
>

>
> I tried using the paper transfer method and had poor
> results. After
> experimenting with many types of paper, I started
> trying
> transparencies. I've settled on inket
> transparencies. One
> advantage with transparencies is it's easier to see
> if the toner is
> melting and easier to do double sided boards because
> you can see the
> artwork and can align better.
>
> The above link is a collage showing (clockwise from
> top left): 1)
> oner transfered to board - it's only 1.4" x 1.6",
> but I've done
> boards around 4 X 6 with the same results, 2)
> artwork on
> transparency, 3) transparency after toner transfer
> (no significant
> amount of toner left behind), and 4) the
> etched/drilled board.
>
> All traces are 16 mils. The border around the board
> is 10 mils. I
> don't do anything smaller because I try to make my
> boards as easy to
> transfer and etch as possible. I fill all of the
> open area to
> reduce etch time and save my etching solution. I
> remove the toner
> only from areas where I solder, leaving the rest as
> a poor man's
> solder mask.
>
> Before etching, I go over the fills with a fine tip
> black Sharpie
> (ultrafine and industrial don't work for me).
> Etching in ferric
> chloride gives the Sharpie ink a glossy finish.
>
> I use a clothes iron to transfer and I heat the
> toner to the point
> that it's starting to melt. I like to make my holes
> small and like
> the toner to start closing them so the holes serve
> as pilot holes
> during drilling. I use a dremel type drill in a
> stand with carbide
> bits. Before I had the stand, I used a hand held
> dremel tool and
> had no problems with breaking bits or getting the
> holes lined up.
> But it was a pain to keep the drill vertical.
>
> I have had poor results using laser copies.
>
> Regards,
> Dennis
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Cambre
>
> <braincambre500@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Sir Leon,
> >
> > In the future I will be buying a laser printer and
> > start making my PCB's using the tone transfer
> method.
> > Is this is what you are also using?
> >
> > a friend,
> >
> > Patrick
>
>
>
>

> Hi Patrick,
>
> I've tried a couple different laser printers and
> haven't noticed any
> difference in the transfers. I'm using a Lexmark
> Optra E+ that I
> picked up for $40 and am running with a toner
> refill. Pictures of a
> board I did this afternoon can be found here -
>

>
> I tried using the paper transfer method and had poor
> results. After
> experimenting with many types of paper, I started
> trying
> transparencies. I've settled on inket
> transparencies. One
> advantage with transparencies is it's easier to see
> if the toner is
> melting and easier to do double sided boards because
> you can see the
> artwork and can align better.
>
> The above link is a collage showing (clockwise from
> top left): 1)
> oner transfered to board - it's only 1.4" x 1.6",
> but I've done
> boards around 4 X 6 with the same results, 2)
> artwork on
> transparency, 3) transparency after toner transfer
> (no significant
> amount of toner left behind), and 4) the
> etched/drilled board.
>
> All traces are 16 mils. The border around the board
> is 10 mils. I
> don't do anything smaller because I try to make my
> boards as easy to
> transfer and etch as possible. I fill all of the
> open area to
> reduce etch time and save my etching solution. I
> remove the toner
> only from areas where I solder, leaving the rest as
> a poor man's
> solder mask.
>
> Before etching, I go over the fills with a fine tip
> black Sharpie
> (ultrafine and industrial don't work for me).
> Etching in ferric
> chloride gives the Sharpie ink a glossy finish.
>
> I use a clothes iron to transfer and I heat the
> toner to the point
> that it's starting to melt. I like to make my holes
> small and like
> the toner to start closing them so the holes serve
> as pilot holes
> during drilling. I use a dremel type drill in a
> stand with carbide
> bits. Before I had the stand, I used a hand held
> dremel tool and
> had no problems with breaking bits or getting the
> holes lined up.
> But it was a pain to keep the drill vertical.
>
> I have had poor results using laser copies.
>
> Regards,
> Dennis
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Cambre
>
> <braincambre500@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Sir Leon,
> >
> > In the future I will be buying a laser printer and
> > start making my PCB's using the tone transfer
> method.
> > Is this is what you are also using?
> >
> > a friend,
> >
> > Patrick
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Cambre" <braincambre500@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Best PCB yet!


> Hello Sir Leon,
>
> Yes, I have an inkjet printer and was also thinking
> about going the 'UV' way. Did you ever try using the
> toner method? Or did you always use the UV exposure
> method?
>
> I have been in photography for a good portion of my
> life, and possibly thinking that the UV method would
> have 'better control' over the tranfer toner method?
>
> You opinion on both would be very appreciative! I
> always just make my PCB's with dry tranfers...but
> since Radio Shack stop selling them...I'm thinking
> about these other two methods. Again, your reply on
> both of these methods would greatly improved my
> knowledge.

I've tried TT, but the results were very poor. I find UV much easier to use.

Leon

---
[This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility
to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are
currently using to read this email. ]

> I tried using the paper transfer method and had poor results. After
> experimenting with many types of paper, I started trying
> transparencies. I've settled on inket transparencies. One
> advantage with transparencies is it's easier to see if the toner is
> melting and easier to do double sided boards because you can see the
> artwork and can align better.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Cambre" <braincambre500@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Best PCB yet!


> Hello again Sir Leon,
>
> Oh yes, I forgot to ask...
>
> What company do you deal with...in regards to the
> photo sensitive PCB boards? And also the
> transparancies?

Both come from Mega Electronics - FPC-16 PCB material and JetStar film.

Leon
---
[This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility
to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are
currently using to read this email. ]

> Hello again Sir Dennis,
>
> Yes, I wanted to say more Sir...
>
> I have a HP Photosmart 7450 printer...as it does a
> remarkable job on making b/w prints.
>
> My further questions are...It seems as though you
> are
> saying that you use inkject transparancies with an
> iron to press on the image to the PCB. Am I correct
> on
> that. Is so, would an office supply or Best Buy or
> any
> of these type chain stores, carry inkject
> transpancies?
>
> If so, I do believe I will get up, and go get those
> transpancies right now! I've got an iron!!!
>
> Looking forward to your great words of wisdom and
> encouragement. Your pictures definately look great!
>
> ...your friend, Patrick
> '
>
> --- dl5012 <dl5012@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi Patrick,
> >
> > I've tried a couple different laser printers and
> > haven't noticed any
> > difference in the transfers. I'm using a Lexmark
> > Optra E+ that I
> > picked up for $40 and am running with a toner
> > refill. Pictures of a
> > board I did this afternoon can be found here -
> >
>

> >
> > I tried using the paper transfer method and had
> poor
> > results. After
> > experimenting with many types of paper, I started
> > trying
> > transparencies. I've settled on inket
> > transparencies. One
> > advantage with transparencies is it's easier to
> see
> > if the toner is
> > melting and easier to do double sided boards
> because
> > you can see the
> > artwork and can align better.
> >
> > The above link is a collage showing (clockwise
> from
> > top left): 1)
> > oner transfered to board - it's only 1.4" x 1.6",
> > but I've done
> > boards around 4 X 6 with the same results, 2)
> > artwork on
> > transparency, 3) transparency after toner transfer
> > (no significant
> > amount of toner left behind), and 4) the
> > etched/drilled board.
> >
> > All traces are 16 mils. The border around the
> board
> > is 10 mils. I
> > don't do anything smaller because I try to make my
> > boards as easy to
> > transfer and etch as possible. I fill all of the
> > open area to
> > reduce etch time and save my etching solution. I
> > remove the toner
> > only from areas where I solder, leaving the rest
> as
> > a poor man's
> > solder mask.
> >
> > Before etching, I go over the fills with a fine
> tip
> > black Sharpie
> > (ultrafine and industrial don't work for me).
> > Etching in ferric
> > chloride gives the Sharpie ink a glossy finish.
> >
> > I use a clothes iron to transfer and I heat the
> > toner to the point
> > that it's starting to melt. I like to make my
> holes
> > small and like
> > the toner to start closing them so the holes serve
> > as pilot holes
> > during drilling. I use a dremel type drill in a
> > stand with carbide
> > bits. Before I had the stand, I used a hand held
> > dremel tool and
> > had no problems with breaking bits or getting the
> > holes lined up.
> > But it was a pain to keep the drill vertical.
> >
> > I have had poor results using laser copies.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dennis
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Patrick
> Cambre
> >
> > <braincambre500@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello Sir Leon,
> > >
> > > In the future I will be buying a laser printer
> and
> > > start making my PCB's using the tone transfer
> > method.
> > > Is this is what you are also using?
> > >
> > > a friend,
> > >
> > > Patrick
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

> You're using inkjet transparencies in a laser printer, correct?

> transparencies wouldn't work as well? If they don't work as well,

> transparancies have some kind of coating or finish that helps in

> What brand of transparencies are you using? Do the inkjet

> or shrinking under the iron?

> What do you use to remove the toner from only the solder areas?

> I assume you mean laser copies using _paper_ rather than

> As far as you using inkjet transparancies in making
> your PCBs...are you saying that you DO NOT use
> pre-sensitive PCBs for this particular process...or
> are using saying that use USE pre-sensitive PCBs in
> putting your inkjet transparancies on the board?

> I have a HP Photosmart 7450 printer...as it does a
> remarkable job on making b/w prints.

> My further questions are...It seems as though you are
> saying that you use inkject transparancies with an
> iron to press on the image to the PCB. Am I correct on
> that. Is so, would an office supply or Best Buy or any
> of these type chain stores, carry inkject
> transpancies?

> Looking forward to your great words of wisdom and
> encouragement. Your pictures definately look great!

>
> Dennis,
> Where do you get your Inkjet transparancies? The local office supply
> stores here have only $50 packs.

> Very good-looking results with your board...I have to try that with

> Laser printer.

> Hi Patrick,
>
> Seems like we've got a couple threads going...
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Cambre
>
> <braincambre500@...> wrote:
> > I have a HP Photosmart 7450 printer...as it does a
> > remarkable job on making b/w prints.
>
> Inkjet printers won't work for the toner transfer
> process. TT needs
> the toner to be melted. Ink won't do that.
>
> > My further questions are...It seems as though you
> are
> > saying that you use inkject transparancies with an
> > iron to press on the image to the PCB. Am I
> correct on
> > that. Is so, would an office supply or Best Buy or
> any
> > of these type chain stores, carry inkject
> > transpancies?
>
> I got lucky with the inkjet transparencies. I
> bought HP and they
> worked. They're about a dollar a sheet at office
> supply stores, so
> it could get expensive trying a lot of brands (no
> one sells single
> sheets). I bought mine in bulk in an auction on
> eBay. All I knew
> was that they were HP and I took a chance. It paid
> off... Don't
> see that seller listing anymore, but I bought a
> couple hundred and
> that should last awhile.
>
> > Looking forward to your great words of wisdom and
> > encouragement. Your pictures definately look
> great!
>
> Thanks. As I mentioned, the narrowest traces I use
> are 16mil.
> Usually larger to avoid problems with over etching
> and pitting. I
> size my traces so pitting doesn't affect current
> capacity. I'll
> push spaces down pretty low at times, but I try to
> minimize the
> tight pitch areas to make transferring less
> critical. If I get a
> bridge, I just use an Xacto type knife to clear it
> before etching.
> Can use the same technique to clear shorts caused by
> under etching.
>
> Regards,
> Dennis
>
>
>
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dl5012" <dl5012@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, William Blair <wbblair3@>
> wrote:
> > You're using inkjet transparencies in a laser printer, correct?
> Did you determine that laser
> > transparencies wouldn't work as well? If they don't work as well,
> is this because inkjet
> > transparancies have some kind of coating or finish that helps in
> the transfer of toner to the PCB?
>
> Yes, I'm using inkjet transparencies in a laser printer. I tried
> several kinds of laser transparencies and, as you mentioned, it's
> the coating on the inkjet transparencies that hold the ink that
> makes it release the toner. I also tried transparencies for wax
> (Tek Phaser), they were slightly better than laser transparencies;
> but nothing had worked better for me than injket transparencies. No
> scrubbing, no guessing if toner is melted enough, no blind alignment.
>
> When I used laser transparencies, I found that removing it when the
> toner was hot/melted worked best. If I let it cool, the
> transparency had a greater affinity for the toner.
>
> With the inkjet transparencies, I let the toner melt and remove the
> transparency after things have cooled; but are still warm. There's
> some residue from the transparency that I remove with soap, water,
> and a tooth brush. You can leave it on, but etch time seems longer
> and the residue ends up in the etching solution.
>
> > What brand of transparencies are you using? Do the inkjet
> transparencies show any sign of melting
> > or shrinking under the iron?
>
> I'm using HP inkjet transparencies. I bought a bulk pack and
> there's no part number. I put a paper towel (doubled over) between
> the iron and transparency. If the iron touches the transparency, it
> will melt, but no problems with shrinkage. A little curling around
> the edges from downward pressure, but no distortion over the board.
>
> The paper towel might stick to the transparency. I lift the paper
> towel after 10-20 seconds while holding the transparency down so it
> doesn't shift. After a few lifts, the transparency gets it's fill
> of paper fibers and things stop sticking.
>
> I put the board on a block of wood covered by a doubled paper towel.
>
> > What do you use to remove the toner from only the solder areas?
>
> I use acetone on a cotton swab. You'll need to experiment with how
> much to apply. Too little and the toner smears and makes a mess.
> Too much and the toner ends up getting embedded in the board. Small
> toner smudges can be removed with anhydrous isopropyl alcohol and
> some rubbing with a cotton swab.
>
> > I assume you mean laser copies using _paper_ rather than
> transparencies?
>
> I tried paper, laser transparencies, and injket transparencies.
>
> Regards,
> Dennis
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "dl5012" <dl5012@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Ted,
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kilocycles" <kilocycles@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dennis,
> > Where do you get your Inkjet transparancies? The local office supply
> > stores here have only $50 packs.
>
> I bought mine on eBay. The auction just said HP, but not what type.
> I took a chance and got lucky. If you want to try before you invest
> $50, I can sell you a few sheets to try.
>
> > Very good-looking results with your board...I have to try that with
> my
> > Laser printer.
>
> Thanks. It sure beats what I was doing before...
>
> Regards,
> Dennis
>