Homebrew_PCBs

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard" <metal@...>


>
> Which small high-speed spindles are in use with
> this group?
>
> Besides Dremel's I mean... <grin>
>
> Brand, model, cost?

> Which small high-speed spindles are in use with
> this group?
>
> Besides Dremel's I mean... <grin>
>
> Brand, model, cost?
>
> Or if shop-made, a brief description would be great.
>
> Richard
> ============================
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--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Richard <metal@f...> wrote:
>
>
> Which small high-speed spindles are in use with
> this group?
>
> Besides Dremel's I mean... <grin>
>
> Brand, model, cost?
>
> Or if shop-made, a brief description would be great.
>
> Richard
> ============================
> Please do NOT add or "subscribe" me to any lists or databases.
>

> For many years I've used a Bosch
>
> http://auptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-au/
> Product.jsp;jsessionid=E8C80E9C3D0286A199ED2A5EF701ED44?division=gw&ccat_id=9568&prod_id=5687&template=productimage.xsl
>
>
> ,which is probably very similar in power/size/weight to the RotorZip
>
> series mentioned by Mike Young. Metabo, and others make similar short
>
> length straight (die) grinders.
>
> e.g
>
> http://www.metabo.com.au/metabo/au/en/produkte/diegrinders/500wattstraightgrinderg500_6_06301_19.html
>
>
> Prices are about 2 times that of a Dremel kit.
>
>
> Adam

> I was looking at the small grinders in a tool shop only a few days ago,
> but they all have pretty bad collets. The Dremel were actually the better
> ones they had, with a tapered fit, but still nothing like the proxxon
> ones. The cheaper grinders all had nasty collets that i wouldn't even want
> to try.
> I don't need one now but i'm always looking if there's a good one so i
> don't need to take the proxxon grinder out of the drill press for other
> work.
> Maybe i'll get one of the "cheaper" proxxon models, they should have the
> same collets as the IB/E. You can get like a micromot for under 30eur new,
> that's much better than the IB/E for about 100eur, and it has the same
> precision colltes and the shaft seems to be of the same high quality. Only
> the front of the case is plastic not aluminum, but that shouldn't really
> matter, and the cheaper ones are 12V of course - not really a problem
> since i need a 12V PSU anyway for the lights.
>
> Anyway, seeing that the lower range proxxon units are not really much more
> expensive than the cheapo grinders i would much prefer getting one of
> those, knowing the quality.
>
> I don't know about the laminate cutters, those might well have good
> collets too. 100eur and up probably has good ones, as have the large die
> grinders but they seem a bit large and loud for pcb work. Best look
> closely at the collets in the shop, if they are brass or aluminum or
> nickel plated junk they are probably no good. You want steel and you want
> a good tapered fit in the shaft, the collet must be centered and straight
> in the shaft - if the collet isn't centerd how can the drill be? Proxxon
> says 3 flutes is superior to 4.
>
> ST
>
>
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 09:48:59 +0100, Adam Seychell
> <a_seychell@...> wrote:
>
>
>>For many years I've used a Bosch
>>
>>http://auptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-au/
>>Product.jsp;jsessionid=E8C80E9C3D0286A199ED2A5EF701ED44?division=gw&ccat_id=9568&prod_id=5687&template=productimage.xsl
>>
>>
>>,which is probably very similar in power/size/weight to the RotorZip
>>
>>series mentioned by Mike Young. Metabo, and others make similar short
>>
>>length straight (die) grinders.
>>
>>e.g
>>
>>http://www.metabo.com.au/metabo/au/en/produkte/diegrinders/500wattstraightgrinderg500_6_06301_19.html
>>
>>
>>Prices are about 2 times that of a Dremel kit.
>>
>>
>>Adam
>
>
>

> From web
>
> pictures and descriptions, I think the cheaper 12V Proxxon will do the
>
> job. Its major problem is there is no circular section on the body for
>
> potential clamping. I'm sure the Proxxon marketers had done this
>
> intentionally to make you buy the tippled priced 240V products.
>
>
> Adam

> I think he was referring to the price being 'much better'. The quality
>
> is questionable, since I believe you get what you pay for (usually :o).
>
> The more expensive spindles on the Proxxon web site state they are
>
> suitable for 'extended use'.

> Do any of the Dremel chucks work well with small drill bits?
>
> There is an adjustable one that fits 1/32" to 1/8" tools and a
>
> special one that only fits 1/32" tools.
>
>
> Don

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Horne" <chris@s...> wrote:
>
> I use a MiniCraft drill, but i can't tell you the model as its over 10
> years old and the label wore off !
>
> more recently i am using a home made spindle based on skete bearings
> in a CNC'd micro mill
>
> Chris (-=Spiyda=-)
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Richard <metal@f...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Which small high-speed spindles are in use with
> > this group?
> >
> > Besides Dremel's I mean... <grin>
> >
> > Brand, model, cost?
> >
> > Or if shop-made, a brief description would be great.
> >
> > Richard
> > ============================
> > Please do NOT add or "subscribe" me to any lists or databases.
> >
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Richard <metal@f...> wrote:
>
>
> ahhh....skate bearings....of course! <g>
>
> Sorry 'bout that...I should've figured that one out
> myself. Put it down to late-night fatigue.
>
> Aren't ABEC-9 bearings an ultra-tight machine-tool
> grade? What the heck are they doing in -rollerskates- ??
>
> I'd think they'd be $50 to $100 bearings!
>
> I guess if you're only drilling a few holes, limiting the
> feedrate is OK. I have had to drill boards with 600+
> holes; and have no desire to -slow- the machine! <grin>
>
> I'm currently running my Techno table at 400ipm slew,
> and around 400,000 steps/sec/sec accelerations, so the
> drill-down time has now become the larger portion of
> the overall job-time. And with 60krpm instead of 25-30k,
> I could -double- my trace-cutting speed...which would be
> really sweet!
>
> Don't know about you guys, but whenever I'm waiting
> for a board to finish isolation, I'm alway chomping at
> the bit wanting it to be DONE, so I can build it and
> see how it works! <g>
>
> I can't spend $3000 for a spindle, but I've worn out
> so many crappy Dremels over the past 15 yrs, that I've
> easily burnt up $300-400 so far. I'd gladly spend, say,
> $300, for a nice little 50-60krpm unit with decent runout
> and not-outrageous noise. If one were available.
>
> Buy one decent spindle, and be done with the problem
> forever. But the market is probably too small for anyone
> to make such a thing; especially if nobody is willing to
> spend more than $39.
>
> Air: I've always kept my compressor outside under a
> little 'shelter', for lack of a better word. Also, I chose
> a unit with a 60-gal tank...it hardly runs at all. So the
> worry about compressor-noise hasn't been an issue for
> me.
>
> I would think that a purpose-built PCB spindle would
> consume far less air than those cheap die-grinders.
> I know that the 200krpm dental handpieces use hardly
> any air at all. The airlines feeding them are only about
> .100" ID !
>
> Air-consumption is directly proportional to both precision
> and power-output; and PCB drilling/isolation isn't a high HP
> job. It would seem that 50-100W would be plenty. The
> Dremel is...about 125W -input- power, if I recall right.
> Of course, it's such an inefficient motor that it's -output-
> power is probably only 75-100W, and that's at full load.
>
> What it actually produces during drilling might only be
> a fraction of that...25-50W of mechanical power maybe?
> A well-made 50-100W air-motor spindle might be pretty
> reasonable on consumption.
>
> Die-grinders are noisy because they run open exhaust; right
> there in your face. But if the exhaust is plumbed away,
> and if the tool is made well, an air motor can be pretty quiet.
> I once worked on some air-powered factory-automation
> equipment that used plumbed exhaust; and was pleasantly
> surprised at how easy it was to stand right next to it while
> discussing it in normal tones.
>
> Heck, it's not like these cheap electric tools are very quiet
> themselves... <g>
>
> Appreciate everyone's thoughts and viewpoints on this.
> It's very interesting. The spindle is such a key portion
> of the setup.
> --
> ============================
> Please do NOT add or "subscribe" me to any lists or databases.
>

>
> Heck, it's not like these cheap electric tools are very quiet
> themselves... <g>

>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell <a_seychell@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Richard wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Buy one decent spindle, and be done with the problem
> > > forever. But the market is probably too small for anyone
> > > to make such a thing; especially if nobody is willing to
> > > spend more than $39.
> >
> > There seems to be the conventional electric die grinders at < US$150,
> > and the > $2000 specialized CNC PCB drilling spinals, like those
> made by
> > Westwind. There is nothing in between. As you say the PCB hobbyist
> > market is too small and I guess no one needs a 30000+ RPM electric
> die grinder.
>
> Well, I had never heard the term "die grinder" before reading this
> thread. A quick google search reveals that inexpensive electric
> die grinders run from 19000 to 27000rpm. I just bought a Proxxon

>
> Another factor about the die grinders: Do they use a 3 piece collet
> or a 4 piece collet? Stefan said the 3 piece collets are superior.
> I see that is true in theory. I am inexperienced in practice.
>

> I forgot to mention one of the most important things!
>
> The Proxxon rotary tool draws 0.9A. These die grinders draw three to
>
> seven times as much current. So they have three to seven times as
>
> much power as the Proxxon.

>
> Idaho, you would machine the end of shaft. You need to
> bore a hole to fit the OD of the collets. Then you need to
> cut a taper on the ID of the shaft-end, to fit the taper of
> the collets that you chose. Then you need to turn the OD
> to the right dia. for threading, and thread it for the cap/nut
> which holds the collet in.
>
> You may not have to make the nut itself; as you could
> probably find a replacement-nut for some tool that already
> uses those same collets.