Homebrew PCBs

Hello. 

I'd like to introduce myself, David Vernon, from Lip Chip Solutions, 
Inc. I've been working with several direct flatbed printers, and 
printer manufacturers on the imaging of PCB and products directly. 
Please look at one of the web sites of manufacturers I work with 
at ...   www.swi-usa.com   Email Jason, and let him know that Dave 
directed you there.

If I can help anyone out with direct print, please let me know.

Dave /  LipChip

I doubt i can afford any of your printers, but maybe you can tell us what  
inks you use for PCB resist printing?

thanks


ST

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:19:02 +0100, lipchip2 <lipchip2@...> wrote:

> Hello.
>
>
> I'd like to introduce myself, David Vernon, from Lip Chip Solutions,
>
> Inc. I've been working with several direct flatbed printers, and
>
> printer manufacturers on the imaging of PCB and products directly.
>
> Please look at one of the web sites of manufacturers I work with
>
> at ...   www.swi-usa.com   Email Jason, and let him know that Dave
>
> directed you there.
>
>
> If I can help anyone out with direct print, please let me know.
>
>
> Dave /  LipChip

On Jan 11, 2006, at 1:19 PM, lipchip2 wrote:

Hello.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
If I can help anyone out with direct print, please let me know.

Dave /  LipChip


Dave,
I'd like to see some results. For double sided boards, I thought two  
single sided .031" glued together? What are your ideas?
Terry

Hi Terry,
  Email Jason at the www.swi-usa.com website.  Through him I can get some samples made.
   
  Dave / LipChip

Terry Mickelson <tmlist@...> wrote:
  
On Jan 11, 2006, at 1:19 PM, lipchip2 wrote:

Hello.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
If I can help anyone out with direct print, please let me know.

Dave /  LipChip


Dave,
I'd like to see some results. For double sided boards, I thought two  
single sided .031" glued together? What are your ideas?
Terry


Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs

If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ 



  SPONSORED LINKS 
        Electrical engineering degree online   Electrical engineering degree   Printed circuit board     Electrical engineering   Electrical engineering course   Electrical engineering graduate school 
    
---------------------------------
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 

    
    Visit your group "Homebrew_PCBs" on the web.
    
    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    
    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 

    
---------------------------------
  

  


			
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Stefan,
  The printers through www.swi-usa.com are using Epson 220 (A4) and Epson 1290 (Super A3) size. These printers can be modified to run different inks depending on the customers needs. We've run everything from water based, to solvent, to our own thermal technology.  The printers range in price from $6500.00 to $9500.00, and we can modify to the customers needs.  We are also now beginning to do some contract printing for customers.
   
  Dave / LipChip

Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
  I doubt i can afford any of your printers, but maybe you can tell us what 
inks you use for PCB resist printing?

thanks


ST

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:19:02 +0100, lipchip2 
wrote:

> Hello.
>
>
> I'd like to introduce myself, David Vernon, from Lip Chip Solutions,
>
> Inc. I've been working with several direct flatbed printers, and
>
> printer manufacturers on the imaging of PCB and products directly.
>
> Please look at one of the web sites of manufacturers I work with
>
> at ... www.swi-usa.com Email Jason, and let him know that Dave
>
> directed you there.
>
>
> If I can help anyone out with direct print, please let me know.
>
>
> Dave / LipChip




Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs

If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links







  


		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 00:35:12 +0100, David L. Vernon <lipchip2@...>  
wrote:

> Hello Stefan,
>
>   The printers through www.swi-usa.com are using Epson 220 (A4) and  
> Epson 1290 (Super A3) size. These printers can be modified to run
> different inks depending on the customers needs. We've run everything  
> from water based, to solvent, to our own thermal technology.  The
> printers range in price from $6500.00 to $9500.00, and we can modify to  
> the customers needs.  We are also now beginning to do some
> contract printing for customers.
>
>
>   Dave / LipChip


I see, but have you actually printed PCB etch resist with those?
There was talk about a italian company using UV cure ink for this purpose,  
but i'd be interested in what you have found suitable.
When i tried inkjet printing on metal i couldn't get a continous layer  
with the inks i tried.

For printing like a plaque or something this should not be a problem, but  
for making PCBs the layer must be continous to work.

Looking at the printers, the small white one, i don't quite see how it is  
used - does that table move? Would it be possible to maintain registration  
for doublesided PCBs?

ST

Stefan,
  I need to clarify with you and others here on the PCB's forum that we HAVE NOT yet printed directly to PCB's specifically, but we can print directly to surfaces such as PCB's.  We have not tested specific inks that will work with our piezo head printers.  We have an interest in working with companies to test these printers to determine if our direct flatbed printers can work with these various inks for the PCB's.  
   
  It is my hope that these printers can be used for the PCB technology.  PLEASE understand I'm learning from the experts as to whether this can be done.
   
  In regards to registration, a template can be made so that registration in 0,0 in alignment.
   
  What inks were you using in your test?  What was the printer you were using? We are printing 720 dpi photograph digital images directly to substrates.
   
  Dave / LipChip

Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
  On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 00:35:12 +0100, David L. Vernon 

wrote:

> Hello Stefan,
>
> The printers through www.swi-usa.com are using Epson 220 (A4) and 
> Epson 1290 (Super A3) size. These printers can be modified to run
> different inks depending on the customers needs. We've run everything 
> from water based, to solvent, to our own thermal technology. The
> printers range in price from $6500.00 to $9500.00, and we can modify to 
> the customers needs. We are also now beginning to do some
> contract printing for customers.
>
>
> Dave / LipChip


I see, but have you actually printed PCB etch resist with those?
There was talk about a italian company using UV cure ink for this purpose, 
but i'd be interested in what you have found suitable.
When i tried inkjet printing on metal i couldn't get a continous layer 
with the inks i tried.

For printing like a plaque or something this should not be a problem, but 
for making PCBs the layer must be continous to work.

Looking at the printers, the small white one, i don't quite see how it is 
used - does that table move? Would it be possible to maintain registration 
for doublesided PCBs?

ST


Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs

If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links






  


		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Can someone give me a short recap on the status of direct printing with 
injet printers?  Is there a mod that is considered usable or is it 
still pretty much in the experimentation stage?

Lacking a usable direct print via inkjet method, can someone suggest a 
new or used laser printer that is inexpensive but will do a good job of 
printing to the Staples Photo Basic Gloss paper?

Thanks,

Paul

I use an HP LaserJet 4 and it works quite well. I print out a lot of 
datasheets so if I was going to buy another one I'd get a 4+ or another 
one which can be fit with a duplexor - prints both sides of the page. I 
got my HP LJ 4 on eBay for less than $100 including shipping.
--
Martin

Paul Sturpe wrote:

>
> Can someone give me a short recap on the status of direct printing with
> injet printers? Is there a mod that is considered usable or is it
> still pretty much in the experimentation stage?
>
> Lacking a usable direct print via inkjet method, can someone suggest a
> new or used laser printer that is inexpensive but will do a good job of
> printing to the Staples Photo Basic Gloss paper?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul
>
> 
> Messages in this topic 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/message/11690;_ylc=X3oDMTM2cHJ2aGhwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ1MDUzNjEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgzMjkxBG1zZ0lkAzE3NDY1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE2OTM0MzM5NwR0cGNJZAMxMTY5MA--> 
> (8) 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYm5oNzVpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ1MDUzNjEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgzMjkxBG1zZ0lkAzE3NDY1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTE2OTM0MzM5Nw--?act=reply&messageNum=17465>

I know he asked about TT too, but please try to keep the subjects
separate.

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Martin Klingensmith <martin@...>
wrote:
>
> I use an HP LaserJet 4 and it works quite well. I print out a lot of 
> datasheets so if I was going to buy another one I'd get a 4+ or another 
> one which can be fit with a duplexor - prints both sides of the page. I 
> got my HP LJ 4 on eBay for less than $100 including shipping.
> --
> Martin
> 
> Paul Sturpe wrote:
> >
> > Can someone give me a short recap on the status of direct printing
with
> > injet printers? Is there a mod that is considered usable or is it
> > still pretty much in the experimentation stage?
> >
> > Lacking a usable direct print via inkjet method, can someone suggest a
> > new or used laser printer that is inexpensive but will do a good
job of
> > printing to the Staples Photo Basic Gloss paper?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Sturpe" <sturpe@...> wrote:
>
> Can someone give me a short recap on the status of direct printing 
with 
> injet printers?  

http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/directinkjetresist.htm is 
just about everything known. If I've missed something on that page, 
please let me know.

> Is there a mod that is considered usable or is it 
> still pretty much in the experimentation stage?

Given thin enough PCB stock, the only mod necessary is to remove 
obstructions to a straight through paper path. For standard thickness 
stock, the mods on the page above are doable. The C84 version requires 
less technical ability. 

The advantage of direct injet printing is that not only the etch 
resist, but also the solder mask AND component silkscreen can be 
printed. No other hobby method offers all that at such a low cost.

- 4 mil traces
- print, cure and etch faster than photo and as fast as TT.
- solder mask
- component "silkscreen"
- Very low startup cost. Just a used C84, the ink, and the time to 
make the mods.

I'm amazed there aren't more people doing it.

Are you doing this, James?
I'm seriously considering it.
--
Martin K

James Newton wrote:

>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "Paul Sturpe" <sturpe@...> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Can someone give me a short recap on the status of direct printing
> with
> > injet printers?
>
> http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/directinkjetresist.htm 
> <http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/directinkjetresist.htm> is
> just about everything known. If I've missed something on that page,
> please let me know.
>
> > Is there a mod that is considered usable or is it
> > still pretty much in the experimentation stage?
>
> Given thin enough PCB stock, the only mod necessary is to remove
> obstructions to a straight through paper path. For standard thickness
> stock, the mods on the page above are doable. The C84 version requires
> less technical ability.
>
> The advantage of direct injet printing is that not only the etch
> resist, but also the solder mask AND component silkscreen can be
> printed. No other hobby method offers all that at such a low cost.
>
> - 4 mil traces
> - print, cure and etch faster than photo and as fast as TT.
> - solder mask
> - component "silkscreen"
> - Very low startup cost. Just a used C84, the ink, and the time to
> make the mods.
>
> I'm amazed there aren't more people doing it.
>
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Martin Klingensmith <martin@...> 
wrote:
>
> Are you doing this, James?
> I'm seriously considering it.
> --
> Martin K

No, I am not. I have gathered the documentation on my site with an eye 
to making it accessable to others and with an eye to doing it myself 
in the future. At this point, I just don't have the space (or time) 
for another project. 

As far as I know, only Volkan and Stefen have actually produced PCB's 
via this system, but thier documentation of the steps required is 
excellent and inspires confidence that the process is entirly doable. 

http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/directinkjetresist.htm

When only Volkan had done it, I could understand some reluctance in 
others trying to duplicate a "one-off" success, but Stefan was able to 
without much trouble, and in doing so proved the method is repeatable.

The "holy grail" would be a durabrite or pezo head printer that can 
print on board stock without modification, and there was some talk 
about using the Epson printers that can print directly on CD's. (what 
was that? the R220? 230? Are they really compatible with the MSPRO 
inks?). It would seem that smaller PCBs, of a size that would fit 
inside the circle of a CD, could be printed without modification.

There was also another company who posted information about a printer 
that could print on thicker media (at the beginning of this thread 
infact!) but had not tried the inks or tried to cure and etch 
anything. If you are listening, your sales could be strongly advanced 
by spending a few moments trying to do what Volkan and Stefan have 
done. There are a LOT of people who would love a ready-made package 
for produceing such professional boards at home.

I'm rather shocked that others have not tried this. In the past I have 
offered (and paid) a small reward for those (2 at this point) who have 
made progress with this new method, and I wish I could offer more 
especially since I have not been able to work on it myself. I'm a bit 
pressed for funds at the moment, but perhaps others will encourage 
deveopment for the greater good of the community?