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Copper pours with Eagle

Copper pours with Eagle

2005-11-23 by Mike Young

After messing a bit with ground planes, isolation etches, and copper pours 
with Eagle Lite 4.15, here's a quick how-to:

POLYGON defines the outline of a copper pour. Drawn on a signal layer, 1-TOP 
or 16-BOTTOM, they can be given a signal name. This signal is then 
associated with the pour. The most reasonable signal for a ground plane is 
GND. Other signals are separated from the pour by a specified ISOLATION 
distance.

The "trick" to doing this is to first ripup the traces on the layer with the 
pour. I tried this (in vain, frustratingly) first on a board that was 
already routed, thinking it should carve the bottom traces into the new 
pour. This apparently doesn't work. Many long minutes were spent this way; 
it felt like hours, weeks. I even gave in and read the manual. A root canal 
would have been more fun. And then tossing caution to the wind (not really; 
the file was backed up safely), I ripped up the bottom traces and gave it a 
clean slate to work with. The simplest way to do this is to turn off all 
other signal layers and ripup all the signals. (Semi-colon does this nicely, 
automatically.)

Draw the polygon outline with a reasonable width; I used 16 mil, wide enough 
to see easily, and narrow enough to select easily. This is only the outline; 
Eagle fills in the closed shape. (Later, of course, so you wouldn't know 
what to expect...)

Set the ISOLATION distance in the toolbar, or use CHANGE ISOLATION later. I 
used 16 mil. If you're milling this, maybe use the end mill diameter. The 
default distance is 0, not very useful for a ground plane.

Draw a box around the dimension extents. Polygon segments must not overlap 
or cross each other. I even got Eagle to crash completely more than once by 
screwing this up. The best way to do this is to trace three sides of the 
bounding box, and sorta click twice on the fourth corner, but not quite 
double click. You just want to click the same point twice without moving the 
cursor. Eagle closes the outline back to the starting point, drawing the 
fourth side.

Now run the auto-router. I didn't try routing manually, so I don't know if 
that works. I expect it should. The POLYGON is calculated by RATSNEST or by 
AUTO. It stays an outline until either command is run. After it runs, the 
pads and vias are isolated, and new traces are properly isolated. Existing 
traces are apparently not examined by RATSNEST; they remain untouched and 
unisolated.

Ground pads are connect to the ground plane through thermals, a very nice 
touch. Thermals are small traces through the isolation space around the pad, 
connecting it electrically but isolating it thermally so it can be soldered. 
I think you can specify how many and how wide in the design rules; I always 
wondered where that was used. Now I know. :) And now you know. Have fun. It 
really cleans up the ground traces nicely.

Re: Copper pours with Eagle

2005-11-24 by Evan Dudzik

Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 01:15:22 -0600
>    From: "Mike Young" <mikewhy@...>
> Subject: Copper pours with Eagle
>
> The "trick" to doing this is to first ripup the traces on the layer with
> the
> pour. I tried this (in vain, frustratingly) first on a board that was
> already routed, thinking it should carve the bottom traces into the new
> pour. This apparently doesn't work. Many long minutes were spent this way;
> it felt like hours, weeks. I even gave in and read the manual. A root
> canal
> would have been more fun. And then tossing caution to the wind (not
> really;
> the file was backed up safely), I ripped up the bottom traces and gave it
> a
> clean slate to work with. The simplest way to do this is to turn off all
> other signal layers and ripup all the signals. (Semi-colon does this
> nicely,
> automatically.)


I have never had any trouble doing a copper pour after routing in eagle...
just lay down the polygon, and hit the ratsnest button to have it carve the
traces... I just tried it again (to make sure I wasn't crazy) and it does
indeed work...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper pours with Eagle

2005-11-24 by Mike Young

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Evan Dudzik" <evandude@...>
>
> I have never had any trouble doing a copper pour after routing in eagle...
> just lay down the polygon, and hit the ratsnest button to have it carve 
> the
> traces... I just tried it again (to make sure I wasn't crazy) and it does
> indeed work...

Yup. A completely routed board, though, has an empty ratsnest list. RATSNEST 
complains/reports happily that there's "NOTHING TO DO!", and leaves the new 
POLYGON as an outline. I'm sure it's a feature, but don't understand things 
well enough to say what it's for.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper pours with Eagle

2005-11-24 by Evan Dudzik

That's odd... because I just took a fully routed design I had, removed the
pour polygon, placed a new one, and hit ratsnest, and it did the pour.  it
did say "nothing to do!" at the bottom...

did you enable orphans?  on the few occasions eagle has given me some
trouble about doing a pour, enabling orphans seemed to fix it.

-Evan

On 11/24/05, Mike Young <mikewhy@...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Evan Dudzik" <evandude@...>
> >
> > I have never had any trouble doing a copper pour after routing in
> eagle...
> > just lay down the polygon, and hit the ratsnest button to have it carve
> > the
> > traces... I just tried it again (to make sure I wasn't crazy) and it
> does
> > indeed work...
>
> Yup. A completely routed board, though, has an empty ratsnest list.
> RATSNEST
> complains/reports happily that there's "NOTHING TO DO!", and leaves the
> new
> POLYGON as an outline. I'm sure it's a feature, but don't understand
> things
> well enough to say what it's for.
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper pours with Eagle

2005-11-25 by Mike Young

I think the problem is simply that the board is completely routed. By 
deleting the ground plane, the board is no longer complete. The point to be 
made is that Eagle does indeed pour copper into its polygons. Just 
experimenting on a completed board, lacking the faith of having seen it work 
even once, it looks as useless as day old toast. If you're adding a ground 
plane, you need to rip out the ground traces anyway for it to make sense. 
And then it works nicely.

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Evan Dudzik" <evandude@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper pours with Eagle


> That's odd... because I just took a fully routed design I had, removed the
> pour polygon, placed a new one, and hit ratsnest, and it did the pour.  it
> did say "nothing to do!" at the bottom...
>
> did you enable orphans?  on the few occasions eagle has given me some
> trouble about doing a pour, enabling orphans seemed to fix it.
>
> -Evan
>
> On 11/24/05, Mike Young <mikewhy@...> wrote:
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Evan Dudzik" <evandude@...>
>> >
>> > I have never had any trouble doing a copper pour after routing in
>> eagle...
>> > just lay down the polygon, and hit the ratsnest button to have it carve
>> > the
>> > traces... I just tried it again (to make sure I wasn't crazy) and it
>> does
>> > indeed work...
>>
>> Yup. A completely routed board, though, has an empty ratsnest list.
>> RATSNEST
>> complains/reports happily that there's "NOTHING TO DO!", and leaves the
>> new
>> POLYGON as an outline. I'm sure it's a feature, but don't understand
>> things
>> well enough to say what it's for.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
>> Photos:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>>
>> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper pours with Eagle

2005-11-25 by Stefan Trethan

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 10:33:44 +0100, Mike Young <mikewhy@...>  
wrote:

> I think the problem is simply that the board is completely routed. By
>
> deleting the ground plane, the board is no longer complete. The point to  
> be
>
> made is that Eagle does indeed pour copper into its polygons. Just
>
> experimenting on a completed board, lacking the faith of having seen it  
> work
>
> even once, it looks as useless as day old toast. If you're adding a  
> ground
>
> plane, you need to rip out the ground traces anyway for it to make sense.
>
> And then it works nicely.


It does not seem to make sense. I have no eagle but i would expect it to  
work on the finished board.

One does not usually not route ground just because you make a ground  
plane, usually one will route it in the normal way, just to make 100% sure  
there's acceptable ground paths to everywhere, additionally to checking  
the ground plane and it's connections for sanity.

There must be a parameter to specify which signal does not get isolation  
 from the ground plane, i was thinking it is the signal you assign to the  
polygon outline in eagle.

Anyway, not having eagle at the moment, i can not believe they make a  
copper pour feature that is not useful, and that can not be used as last  
step in routing a layout.

ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper pours with Eagle

2005-11-25 by Mike Young

Hmmm. The overall context is that it works. Re-reading my most recent 
comments in isolation, it gets a little confusing. I blame the turkey, wine 
(both exceedingly effective soporifics), and the resulting virtual jet-lag.

Yes, to all your comments. Eagle does indeed work well with pours, whether 
for ground planes or any other signal you care to assign them. My last 
remarks were in response to Evan, who deleted his ground plane and noted 
that adding it back in works as expected. Which was in turn directed at my 
earlier remarks regarding Eagle's obtuseness with pours on completely 
complete boards. To which, we arrive back at the most immediate remarks that 
deleting the ground plane leaves the board incomplete, and...

Or something like that.



----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 4:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Copper pours with Eagle


> On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 10:33:44 +0100, Mike Young <mikewhy@...>
> wrote:
>
>> I think the problem is simply that the board is completely routed. By
>>
>> deleting the ground plane, the board is no longer complete. The point to
>> be
>>
>> made is that Eagle does indeed pour copper into its polygons. Just
>>
>> experimenting on a completed board, lacking the faith of having seen it
>> work
>>
>> even once, it looks as useless as day old toast. If you're adding a
>> ground
>>
>> plane, you need to rip out the ground traces anyway for it to make sense.
>>
>> And then it works nicely.
>
>
> It does not seem to make sense. I have no eagle but i would expect it to
> work on the finished board.
>
> One does not usually not route ground just because you make a ground
> plane, usually one will route it in the normal way, just to make 100% sure
> there's acceptable ground paths to everywhere, additionally to checking
> the ground plane and it's connections for sanity.
>
> There must be a parameter to specify which signal does not get isolation
> from the ground plane, i was thinking it is the signal you assign to the
> polygon outline in eagle.
>
> Anyway, not having eagle at the moment, i can not believe they make a
> copper pour feature that is not useful, and that can not be used as last
> step in routing a layout.

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