Homebrew PCBs

Ya know, it would SEEM that Dremel could install decent ABEC5  double-sealed 
bearings, at least on the "chuck end" of their famous little  toy-drill, and 
they'd have MANY more customers!  This is surely a good  example of the "Not MY 
job!" syndrome!  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 18:54:22 +0100, <JanRwl@...> wrote:

> Ya know, it would SEEM that Dremel could install decent ABEC5   
> double-sealed
> bearings, at least on the "chuck end" of their famous little  toy-drill,  
> and
> they'd have MANY more customers!  This is surely a good  example of the  
> "Not MY
> job!" syndrome!


they'd still have rubbish collets and runout.
you could easily replace the bearings, but, i know, that's not your job!


;-)

ST

Many thanks for all the views.

So the general consensus is to stay well away from any Dremel drill 
due to lack of decent bearings & runout. I guess that rules out their 
drill stand(s) as well, as only their drills will fit it...

The Minicraft drill stand appears to have a 'sideways' level (not 
front-to-back) ?? - and also a tiny work area - so no good either.

If anyone can send me small pics of their drills/stands with a 
manufactures name & price that would be a really big help !

Alternatively, how about a folder in the Photos section to show off 
your setups ?

I've just taken delivery of the Velleman ET-20 etching tank, and 
despite initial concerns about it's quality, it really does a fine 
job of etching PCB's in super-quick time :)

Richard








--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 18:54:22 +0100, <JanRwl@A...> wrote:
> 
> > Ya know, it would SEEM that Dremel could install decent ABEC5   
> > double-sealed
> > bearings, at least on the "chuck end" of their famous little  toy-
drill,  
> > and
> > they'd have MANY more customers!  This is surely a good  example 
of the  
> > "Not MY
> > job!" syndrome!
> 
> 
> they'd still have rubbish collets and runout.
> you could easily replace the bearings, but, i know, that's not your 
job!

> 
> 
> ;-)
> 
> ST
>

In a message dated 11/3/2005 12:40:58 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
stefan_trethan@... writes:

they'd  still have rubbish collets and runout.



Yeah, it IS amazing a firm that manufactures such a "popular  thing" could do 
it so BADLY for years!  A "Dremel tool" is hardly good  enough for 
wood-carving!  If runout, etc. were not too bad for that use,  the longevity of the 
device as-is from factory certainly is too short!  I  had one that gave-out before 
"the pretty had rubbed off", and I needed such for  misc. shop stuff, so I 
bought an "equivalent" from Sears.  Has lasted MUCH  longer, though has a clumsy 
housing (the cylindrical simple shape can be adapted  to home-brew rigs much 
more easily).


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 20:04:30 +0100, Richard  
<Richard@...> wrote:

> Many thanks for all the views.
> So the general consensus is to stay well away from any Dremel drill
> due to lack of decent bearings & runout. I guess that rules out their
> drill stand(s) as well, as only their drills will fit it...
> The Minicraft drill stand appears to have a 'sideways' level (not
> front-to-back) ?? - and also a tiny work area - so no good either.
> If anyone can send me small pics of their drills/stands with a
> manufactures name & price that would be a really big help !
> Alternatively, how about a folder in the Photos section to show off
> your setups ?


<http://trethan.at.tf/pub/img1/drill_left.JPG>

that's my setup. manufacturer is me, and price is zero.

Actually, i modified it slightly. Put the bearings down in line with the  
table so that there is no sideways movement but a precise arc.

Note that this driller was prepared for a projection mechanism which was  
never fitted. Without that you can use a simple piano hinge.

ST

Wow :-0  - that's an amazing setup, ST !!

From your picture, I'm guessing you chose this system because it 
allows you to drill HUGE boards ?

It certainly looks very solid and easy to use..

Nice job - most impressed :)

Richard


 
 
> <http://trethan.at.tf/pub/img1/drill_left.JPG>
> 
> that's my setup. manufacturer is me, and price is zero.
> 
> Actually, i modified it slightly. Put the bearings down in line 
with the  
> table so that there is no sideways movement but a precise arc.
> 
> Note that this driller was prepared for a projection mechanism 
which was  

> never fitted. Without that you can use a simple piano hinge.
> 
> ST
>

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 20:51:08 +0100, Richard  
<Richard@...> wrote:

> Wow :-0  - that's an amazing setup, ST !!
> From your picture, I'm guessing you chose this system because it
> allows you to drill HUGE boards ?
> It certainly looks very solid and easy to use..
> Nice job - most impressed
> Richard


no, not at all. I chose this setup because there must be a certain  
arm-length to approximate straight movement with a pivoting action. Also,  
in order to minimize sideways play, the bearings must be apart some  
distance. So that more or less gives a minimum size. Also, the bottom  
plate and table was one piece initially, and i only needed one cut on it.

There is now a neat space under the table for drills, and the hoover  
nozzle is fixed to the arm, as well as a small lamp. Not sure if i add the  
projection mechanism one day.


ST

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 20:18:17 +0100, <JanRwl@...> wrote:

>
> Yeah, it IS amazing a firm that manufactures such a "popular  thing"  
> could do
> it so BADLY for years!  A "Dremel tool" is hardly good  enough for
> wood-carving!  If runout, etc. were not too bad for that use,  the  
> longevity of the
> device as-is from factory certainly is too short!  I  had one that  
> gave-out before
> "the pretty had rubbed off", and I needed such for  misc. shop stuff, so  
> I
> bought an "equivalent" from Sears.  Has lasted MUCH  longer, though has  
> a clumsy
> housing (the cylindrical simple shape can be adapted  to home-brew rigs  
> much
> more easily).


When you put in a grinding disc in the cheap tools, it will sometimes  
break just from the chatter of the runout.
No comparision in using the proxxon grinder and a cheap one. All the tools  
work just so much better when they cut all-round.

ST

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 21:02:13 +0100, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>  
wrote:

>
> no, not at all. I chose this setup because there must be a certain
> arm-length to approximate straight movement with a pivoting action. Also,
> in order to minimize sideways play, the bearings must be apart some
> distance. So that more or less gives a minimum size. Also, the bottom
> plate and table was one piece initially, and i only needed one cut on it.
> There is now a neat space under the table for drills, and the hoover
> nozzle is fixed to the arm, as well as a small lamp. Not sure if i add  
> the
> projection mechanism one day.
> ST


Oh, and there's a counterweight at the back to balance the arm neutrally  
now, and a screw parallel to the drill as a stop. I found it helpful  
having the stop actually land on the PCB, it holds it down im just that  
critical moment when the drill breaks through.

I would do some things different now, mainly use a simple flat bottom  
plate, and a triangular pivoting plate, with a piano hinge at the back.  
This would be much stiffer than the open frame i have now.

ST

Richard:  
 
Not meaning to confuse you with differences of approach, but  here's what I 
did in this regard.  The drill-motor is a 400 Hz. 3-phase  "aircraft instrument 
motor" with some serious machine-work on it so I had a  collet on the "shaft 
end".  I built the 400 Hz. generator (95 W.)  myself.  Not really difficult.  
The CNC control is no longer done by  the PET you see in the photo, but by a 
typical PC (only, since uses only  GWBASIC, an old '386 works fine!).  Jan  
Rowland       _Yahoo!  Photos - View Photo_ 
(http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/homebrew_pcbs/vwp?.dir=/JanRowland&.src=gr&.dnm=Home-Brew+CNC+PCB+Drill.jpg&.v
iew=t&.done=http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/homebrew_pcbs/lst?&.dir=/JanR
owland&.src=gr&.view=t)  (If you can't get the pic by clicking on that, it is 
in  the PHOTOS section under MY name)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 11/3/2005 3:10:49 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
JanRwl@... writes:

(_http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/homebrew_pcbs/vwp?.dir=/JanRowland&.src
=gr&.dnm=Home-Brew+CNC+PCB+Drill.jpg&.view=t&.done=http://photos.groups.yahoo.
com/group/homebrew_pcbs/lst?&.dir=/JanRowland&.src=gr&.view=t_ 
(http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/homebrew_pcbs/vwp?.dir=/JanRowland&.src=gr&.dnm=Home-Br
ew+CNC+PCB+Drill.jpg&.view=t&.done=http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/homebr
ew_pcbs/lst?&.dir=/JanRowland&.src=gr&.view=t) )   (If you can't get the pic 
by clicking on that, it is 
in  the PHOTOS  section under MY name)<<
I tried simple "clicking-on" and discovered a mess.  I  tinkered a bit, and 
found that if you copy/paste JUST this part: 
_http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/homebrew_pcbs/vwp?.dir=/JanRowland_ 
(http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/homebrew_pcbs/vwp?.dir=/JanRowland) 
in your address-slot, that will bring up the photo  desired.            SORRY!





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Piano hinge - EXCELLENT idea, ST.
I bought a ready drill stand, but the damn thing has awfull
sideways movement when you lower the drill to make a hole.
Making one of these items should solve that issue.
Thanks for that pic. Looks very practical.
But how do you raise/lower the drill to make the holes?

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <Richard@T...> wrote:

>
> Wow :-0  - that's an amazing setup, ST !!
> 
> From your picture, I'm guessing you chose this system because it 
> allows you to drill HUGE boards ?
> 
> It certainly looks very solid and easy to use..
> 
> Nice job - most impressed :)
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
>  
>  
> > <http://trethan.at.tf/pub/img1/drill_left.JPG>
> > 
> > that's my setup. manufacturer is me, and price is zero.
> > 
> > Actually, i modified it slightly. Put the bearings down in line 
> with the  
> > table so that there is no sideways movement but a precise arc.
> > 
> > Note that this driller was prepared for a projection mechanism 
> which was  
> > never fitted. Without that you can use a simple piano hinge.
> > 
> > ST
> >
>

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 11:48:23 +0100, jos_28122002  
<jos_28122002@...> wrote:

> Piano hinge - EXCELLENT idea, ST.
> I bought a ready drill stand, but the damn thing has awfull
> sideways movement when you lower the drill to make a hole.
> Making one of these items should solve that issue.
> Thanks for that pic. Looks very practical.
> But how do you raise/lower the drill to make the holes?
> John


With my left hand.
The drill is balanced with a counterweight not on the picture.

Usually i lift it with the back of my hand, using the fingers to aid in  
positioning the board, much easier with two hands.
Gravity pulls the drill down. Also i use a wood block under the PCB,  
simply because i found the flat PCB hard to position.


Another hint, if you break drills not quite down to the taper but with a  
little section of the narrow part remaining those are great keepers for  
holes where you can't hold the board steady properly. Say for a forgotten  
hole you notice after populating or widening holes. If they are short  
enough they won't break even if you hold the board freehand. You needn't  
grind them, any break will still cut enough.

ST