Homebrew_PCBs

>
> Hi,
>
> I'm about to attempt my first homemade pcb after many years of using
> breadboards and veroboard for my electronics tinkering!
> [snip]

>
> Hi,
>
> I'm about to attempt my first homemade pcb after many years of

> breadboards and veroboard for my electronics tinkering!
>
> I've recently joined the group and have been avidly reading the

> posts and the archives. I do however have a few questions...
>
> Many of the posts I've read advise against the use of an iron and
> recommend a laminator instead. Because of this I went looking for a
> suitable model. It struck me that many of the laminators for sale

> quoting maximum thicknesses of 250 micron (1/4 mm), this doesn't

> nearly enough capacity, am I missing something?
>
> Also I intend buying a laser printer. The HP laserjet 1022 is a

> model that is reputed to have high quality output. Would this be a
> reasonable starting place or should I look elsewhere.
>
> Sorry for the dumb questions but I really am at the bottom of this
> learning curve so any help would be welcome..
>
> Regards,
>
> Andy.
>

>
> Welcome to the fun. I swore off veroboard in a fit of anger and have
> never looked back.
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Horne" <chris@s...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> If its any help, I can only relate what I do.
>
> I do a dozen or so 8" x 5.5" boards a week and I still use an Iron..
> the same one my wife uses to do the ironing.
> (more important toys to buy !)
>
> I use an HP 1010 laser at 600 dpi to print on press-n-peel sheets
> it works a treat... ---
>
> I clean the boards with 600 wet and dry, rinse and dry them
>
> Then iron on (middle steam heat, without the heat)
> with a single sheet of ordinary white paper between the iron and
> press-n-peel.. I iron for about 1.5 minutes
>
> Then quench under the tap and peel the sheet off
>
> The process work fine for the boards I do, I get 98% success rate
> and I'm not going to mess with a process that works !
>
> The biggest pain was hand drilling the holes..
> if you are doing Fibreglass, you need to buy carbide bits
>
> I use mostly paper boards but still use carbide bits, they last 10's
> of times longer.
>
> Chris
>
> In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "andrew566020" <andy.jrhall@b...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm about to attempt my first homemade pcb after many years of
> using
> > breadboards and veroboard for my electronics tinkering!
> >
> > I've recently joined the group and have been avidly reading the
> recent
> > posts and the archives. I do however have a few questions...
> >
> > Many of the posts I've read advise against the use of an iron and
> > recommend a laminator instead. Because of this I went looking for a
> > suitable model. It struck me that many of the laminators for sale
> were
> > quoting maximum thicknesses of 250 micron (1/4 mm), this doesn't
> seem
> > nearly enough capacity, am I missing something?
> >
> > Also I intend buying a laser printer. The HP laserjet 1022 is a
> budget
> > model that is reputed to have high quality output. Would this be a
> > reasonable starting place or should I look elsewhere.
> >
> > Sorry for the dumb questions but I really am at the bottom of this
> > learning curve so any help would be welcome..
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Andy.
> >
>

>
> Many of the posts I've read advise against the use of an iron and
> recommend a laminator instead. Because of this I went looking for a
> suitable model. It struck me that many of the laminators for sale were
> quoting maximum thicknesses of 250 micron (1/4 mm), this doesn't seem
> nearly enough capacity, am I missing something?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> get a laminator that accepts boards already (doesn't pulsar sell
> one??).

> you need to modify most. You can also use a fuser from a dead
> printer/copier, but you might need to modify that too.
> Usually it's only a matter of removing some spacer or filing

> ST
>

>
> Hi Chris,
>
> Thanks for helping with my question. That's two votes for using an
> iron. Mike also responded saying he has success with the 'iron
> method'. I guess that I'll do some experimentation for myself and

> how I get on.
>
> Do you move the iron around (as if ironing a shirt) or do you apply
> heat and pressure in one place for a while then lift and move the

> somewhere else?
>
> Best wishes and thanks,
>
> Andy.
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Horne" <chris@s...>

> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > If its any help, I can only relate what I do.
> >
> > I do a dozen or so 8" x 5.5" boards a week and I still use an

> > the same one my wife uses to do the ironing.
> > (more important toys to buy !)
> >
> > I use an HP 1010 laser at 600 dpi to print on press-n-peel sheets
> > it works a treat... ---
> >
> > I clean the boards with 600 wet and dry, rinse and dry them
> >
> > Then iron on (middle steam heat, without the heat)
> > with a single sheet of ordinary white paper between the iron and
> > press-n-peel.. I iron for about 1.5 minutes
> >
> > Then quench under the tap and peel the sheet off
> >
> > The process work fine for the boards I do, I get 98% success rate
> > and I'm not going to mess with a process that works !
> >
> > The biggest pain was hand drilling the holes..
> > if you are doing Fibreglass, you need to buy carbide bits
> >
> > I use mostly paper boards but still use carbide bits, they last

> > of times longer.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "andrew566020"

> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm about to attempt my first homemade pcb after many years of
> > using
> > > breadboards and veroboard for my electronics tinkering!
> > >
> > > I've recently joined the group and have been avidly reading

> > recent
> > > posts and the archives. I do however have a few questions...
> > >
> > > Many of the posts I've read advise against the use of an iron

> > > recommend a laminator instead. Because of this I went looking

> > > suitable model. It struck me that many of the laminators for

> > were
> > > quoting maximum thicknesses of 250 micron (1/4 mm), this

> > seem
> > > nearly enough capacity, am I missing something?
> > >
> > > Also I intend buying a laser printer. The HP laserjet 1022 is

> > budget
> > > model that is reputed to have high quality output. Would this

> > > reasonable starting place or should I look elsewhere.
> > >
> > > Sorry for the dumb questions but I really am at the bottom of

> > > learning curve so any help would be welcome..
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Andy.
> > >
> >
>

>
> NO! NO! NO!
>
> DO NOT MOVE THE IRON! Be very careful and only apply presure

>Also, I notice that RadioShack's website doesn't know anything about "ferric
>chloride", or "pcb etch". You'll find the MSDS for their part number
>26-1535, but it does look like RS now only panders to cellphones, ipods, and
>TV wiring.
>
>
>

> Hi Chris,
> Thanks for helping with my question. That's two votes for using an
> iron. Mike also responded saying he has success with the 'iron
> method'. I guess that I'll do some experimentation for myself and see
> how I get on.
> Do you move the iron around (as if ironing a shirt) or do you apply
> heat and pressure in one place for a while then lift and move the iron
> somewhere else?
> Best wishes and thanks,
> Andy.

>
> Radio Shack needs to change their name to " The Telephone Booth". They
> are systematically getting out of the hobbiest/experimenter/parts
> business in favor of slick consumer goods.
> Norm

>>Also, I notice that RadioShack's website doesn't know anything about "ferric
>>chloride", or "pcb etch". You'll find the MSDS for their part number
>>26-1535, but it does look like RS now only panders to cellphones, ipods, and
>>TV wiring.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Radio Shack needs to change their name to " The Telephone Booth". They
>are systematically getting out of the hobbiest/experimenter/parts
>business in favor of slick consumer goods.
>
>Norm
>
>

>
>

>
> One last question: which is worse? singleside SMT with some air

> double side with a bunch of drilling for vias and through-holes?
>

>Anything that cuts down on drilling is good by me. I do double sided
>smt with some vias made with a bit of copper wire if space is tight.
>If you are feeling cheeky you could just put big pads in and solder
>your jumpers to them without the hole.
>
>In my opinion drilling is the worst bit of diy as it is the one job
>that gains no/minimal efficiency the more boards you make. Everything
>else like etching and cleaning gets more efficient if you do batches of
>boards.
>
>Additionally I have found that double sided smt is easier to design
>that double sided through hole as you are not forever dodging pads.
>
>Mike
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan King" <alan@...>
> And not going through hole does help a great deal. I've redone most
> of the Eagle TTL chips as SMT pads, and just solder them to the top of
> the board.

Now there's an idea. Can you email me your part lib? Just the ref-packages,
or wherever you put the package definition will do it.

>
> Hi Chris,
>
> Thanks for helping with my question. That's two votes for using an
> iron. Mike also responded saying he has success with the 'iron
> method'. I guess that I'll do some experimentation for myself and

> how I get on.
>
> Do you move the iron around (as if ironing a shirt) or do you apply
> heat and pressure in one place for a while then lift and move the

> somewhere else?
>
> Best wishes and thanks,
>
> Andy.
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Horne" <chris@s...>

> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > If its any help, I can only relate what I do.
> >
> > I do a dozen or so 8" x 5.5" boards a week and I still use an

> > the same one my wife uses to do the ironing.
> > (more important toys to buy !)
> >
> > I use an HP 1010 laser at 600 dpi to print on press-n-peel sheets
> > it works a treat... ---
> >
> > I clean the boards with 600 wet and dry, rinse and dry them
> >
> > Then iron on (middle steam heat, without the heat)
> > with a single sheet of ordinary white paper between the iron and
> > press-n-peel.. I iron for about 1.5 minutes
> >
> > Then quench under the tap and peel the sheet off
> >
> > The process work fine for the boards I do, I get 98% success rate
> > and I'm not going to mess with a process that works !
> >
> > The biggest pain was hand drilling the holes..
> > if you are doing Fibreglass, you need to buy carbide bits
> >
> > I use mostly paper boards but still use carbide bits, they last

> > of times longer.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "andrew566020"

> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm about to attempt my first homemade pcb after many years of
> > using
> > > breadboards and veroboard for my electronics tinkering!
> > >
> > > I've recently joined the group and have been avidly reading

> > recent
> > > posts and the archives. I do however have a few questions...
> > >
> > > Many of the posts I've read advise against the use of an iron

> > > recommend a laminator instead. Because of this I went looking

> > > suitable model. It struck me that many of the laminators for

> > were
> > > quoting maximum thicknesses of 250 micron (1/4 mm), this

> > seem
> > > nearly enough capacity, am I missing something?
> > >
> > > Also I intend buying a laser printer. The HP laserjet 1022 is

> > budget
> > > model that is reputed to have high quality output. Would this

> > > reasonable starting place or should I look elsewhere.
> > >
> > > Sorry for the dumb questions but I really am at the bottom of

> > > learning curve so any help would be welcome..
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Andy.
> > >
> >
>

>
>>
>> Additionally I have found that double sided smt is easier to design
>> that double sided through hole as you are not forever dodging pads.
>>
>> Mike

>
> Hi,
>
> I'm about to attempt my first homemade pcb after many years of using
> breadboards and veroboard for my electronics tinkering!
>
> I've recently joined the group and have been avidly reading the recent
> posts and the archives. I do however have a few questions...
>
> Many of the posts I've read advise against the use of an iron and
> recommend a laminator instead. Because of this I went looking for a
> suitable model. It struck me that many of the laminators for sale were
> quoting maximum thicknesses of 250 micron (1/4 mm), this doesn't seem
> nearly enough capacity, am I missing something?
>
> Also I intend buying a laser printer. The HP laserjet 1022 is a budget
> model that is reputed to have high quality output. Would this be a
> reasonable starting place or should I look elsewhere.
>
> Sorry for the dumb questions but I really am at the bottom of this
> learning curve so any help would be welcome..
>
> Regards,
>
> Andy.
>

>
> I do move the iron, butonly when the board is too big to just leave
> it in one spot...
>
> The way I do this is tolay a sheet of plain white paper over the

>
> Look at the Pulsar.gs site. I use their products for my occasional
> boards and never have a failure. I bought the GBC laminator locally.

>On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 03:17:32 +0100, Alan King <alan@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>Additionally I have found that double sided smt is easier to design
>>>that double sided through hole as you are not forever dodging pads.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>
>
>
>What i like to do is single sided mixed population.
>I put connectors and some ICs on top, and passives, transistors, and some
>small ICs on the bottom.
>This can result in a very tight design, with no vias. I don't think SMD
>only single sided can be made that small.
>
>Also, i want to have connectors and stuff with leads, so they are well
>secured to the board.
>
>
>

>
> Eagle also has some DB style connector layouts that are for board
> edges, with board fitting between the two pin rows on the back of the
> connector, 1/2 pins on top and 1/2 pins on bottom. Is a very good,
> secure method still with no holes, and you can do similar with 2 row pin
> headers etc sticking out from edge. Between that, top mounting dip
> style chips, and wrapping traces over the edges, I hardly ever drill a
> hole in anything now, no pins as well as vias. Just so much easier to
> not have to get out the drill and have dust, even with CNC.. Even when
> I have boards made now, I'm starting to top mount the DIPs and do edge
> type connectors, it just makes things a bit easier.
> Alan

>On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:12:16 +0100, Alan King <alan@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>> Eagle also has some DB style connector layouts that are for board
>>edges, with board fitting between the two pin rows on the back of the
>>connector, 1/2 pins on top and 1/2 pins on bottom. Is a very good,
>>secure method still with no holes, and you can do similar with 2 row pin
>>headers etc sticking out from edge. Between that, top mounting dip
>>style chips, and wrapping traces over the edges, I hardly ever drill a
>>hole in anything now, no pins as well as vias. Just so much easier to
>>not have to get out the drill and have dust, even with CNC.. Even when
>>I have boards made now, I'm starting to top mount the DIPs and do edge
>>type connectors, it just makes things a bit easier.
>>Alan
>>
>>
>
>
>While i also use the edge-on D solder cup connectors they still give you
>some of the signals up top and some one the bottom layer, kind of a little
>drawback. Bending traces over the edge is a interesting idea, might just
>try that.
>
>
>

>Drilling is nasty, yes, but not _that_ bad. As long as i don't have to
>drill hundreds of holes that's ok with me.
>
>
>