Homebrew_PCBs

I can get some ferric chloride cheap, a few dollars for a pound. It
is a bit old, sealed in two bags but it has stuck together a bit.
Not so much I can't break it up easily.

1. Is it likely to still be good? I just got a pound today but I
have the opportunity to buy a lot more cheaply.

2. Is there anything I can do to it to make it work better? Other
than the normal heating and agitating, I mean.

=====
Steve Greenfield // Digital photo scanning, retouching,
Polymorph Digital Photography // and photomorphing to your specs.
253/318-2473 voice // We use the best little computer in
polymorph@... // the world, the Amiga!
http://www.polyphoto.com/ // Based in Tacoma, WA, USA

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

yes its still good, clumps and all.
heat and agitating work good, but mounting the board vertical and lightly
spraying the etchant on to the surfaces of the board works much better, but
you need a chemical proof pump, it has to be stainless or plastic or a combo
of the two.
we have found some windshield washer spray pumps are all plastic, but be
carefull because some are not and will be eaten away.

norm doty
btdt (more than once)

>From: Steve Greenfield <alienrelics@...>
>Reply-To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>To: Homebrew_PCBs Mailing List <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ferric chloride?
>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:02:20 -0700 (PDT)
>
>I can get some ferric chloride cheap, a few dollars for a pound. It
>is a bit old, sealed in two bags but it has stuck together a bit.
>Not so much I can't break it up easily.
>
>1. Is it likely to still be good? I just got a pound today but I
>have the opportunity to buy a lot more cheaply.
>
>2. Is there anything I can do to it to make it work better? Other
>than the normal heating and agitating, I mean.
>
>=====
>Steve Greenfield // Digital photo scanning, retouching,
>Polymorph Digital Photography // and photomorphing to your specs.
>253/318-2473 voice // We use the best little computer in
>polymorph@... // the world, the Amiga!
>http://www.polyphoto.com/ // Based in Tacoma, WA, USA
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
>http://faith.yahoo.com
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

_________________________________________________________________
Surf the Web without missing calls!�Get MSN Broadband.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp

When the sugar in your sugar table bowl forms solids and sticks together
in lumps does the sugar still function the same ?
Its no different with ferric chloride, its just a bit of
recrystallization you are witnessing.

Steve Greenfield wrote:

>I can get some ferric chloride cheap, a few dollars for a pound. It
>is a bit old, sealed in two bags but it has stuck together a bit.
>Not so much I can't break it up easily.
>
>1. Is it likely to still be good? I just got a pound today but I
>have the opportunity to buy a lot more cheaply.
>
>2. Is there anything I can do to it to make it work better? Other
>than the normal heating and agitating, I mean.
>
>=====
>Steve Greenfield // Digital photo scanning, retouching,
>Polymorph Digital Photography // and photomorphing to your specs.
>253/318-2473 voice // We use the best little computer in
>polymorph@... // the world, the Amiga!
>http://www.polyphoto.com/ // Based in Tacoma, WA, USA
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
>http://faith.yahoo.com
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi

I find that if I submerge the board in the ferric and then out into the air,
causes the reaction to be spead up.
I do this by placing the boards facing up in a tank. Add ferric untill the
board is about 1cm deep in the fluid.
Then place on a table with a very simple motor assy.
The motor assy needs to rock the table like a see-saw.
To gently move the tank as if on a see-saw, this allows the board to be
submerged, then aired , then submerged etc.

Simple yet very effective, even without heating the ferric

Hope this helps.


Stuart

In a message dated 10/18/2002 8:04:13 AM Central Standard Time,
stuart.lamble@... writes:

> Then place on a table with a very simple motor assy.
> The motor assy needs to rock the table like a see-saw.
> To gently move the tank as if on a see-saw, this allows the board to be
> submerged, then aired , then submerged etc.
>
> Simple yet very effective, even without heating the ferric
>
>

Stuart: This has NOTHING to do with the "air"! This motion only allows the
dissolved copper salts to "swish off" so fresh FeCl can "get AT" fresh
copper, again!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- JanRwl@... wrote:

> In a message dated 10/18/2002 8:04:13 AM Central Standard Time,
> stuart.lamble@... writes:
>
>
> > Then place on a table with a very simple motor assy.
> > The motor assy needs to rock the table like a see-saw.
> > To gently move the tank as if on a see-saw, this allows the
> board to be
> > submerged, then aired , then submerged etc.
> >
> > Simple yet very effective, even without heating the ferric

>
> Stuart: This has NOTHING to do with the "air"! This motion only
> allows the
> dissolved copper salts to "swish off" so fresh FeCl can "get AT"
> fresh
> copper, again!

Yep, biggest problem I've had with etching in a flat pan is that no
matter what you use or how hot you get it, etched copper and used
acid builds up in a layer and slows the etching process. Minor
swishing back and forth just means that the edges etch but not the
center.

So no matter what I use, I want to use a vertical tank, probably
with a bubbler to keep it moving.

Steve Greenfield

PS I love this list!


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

I've been using the same Ferric Chloride for years and years... I use a
vertical tank (TupperWare Cereal container). Anyone wants a photo of it
let me know.
Drill two holes in the board and thread some 24AWG plastic coated wire
through the holes, then suspend it in the tank. I usually end up
agitating the board by lifting it out of and dropping it back in the FC.
There is still a tendency to etch faster at the top of the board, but
the difference is only about 2 minutes.
Etching time is still 10-12 minutes and has not changed since I
purchased the stuff at rat shack some years ago... 1995 I think it
was... I still have the original bottles somewhere...
The level is going down and last tiem I ecthed a 5" X 6" board I needed
to add some FC, as I did not have any, I simply added 1/2 pint of
water....
There is a crusty ring around the top of the FC and sometimes a coating
develops on the surface ( temperature dependent I think) anyway that
goes away by simply heating the entire Tupperware container in a hot
water bath and stirring for 1-2 minutes.
IMHO people that keep using new mixture of FC are wasting time and
money.
Just how I do things.
COS (change of subject) for those interested I posted a photo of how I
rivet Harwin via pins
http://hans-w.com/pcb_harwin_rivets.jpg
The four pads at the lower right are half of an SO8, should help to
gauge size.

Hans Wedemeyer


Steve Greenfield wrote:

>
> Yep, biggest problem I've had with etching in a flat pan is that no
> matter what you use or how hot you get it, etched copper and used
> acid builds up in a layer and slows the etching process. Minor
> swishing back and forth just means that the edges etch but not the
> center.
>
> So no matter what I use, I want to use a vertical tank, probably
> with a bubbler to keep it moving.
>
> Steve Greenfield
>
> PS I love this list!
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
> http://faith.yahoo.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hans,
Can you describe more about your Harwin Via Pins? I'm very interested.
Where did you get them, how much do they cost, what size holes do you drill,
how do you apply them, etc. Your board looks very nice!

*Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Hans Wedemeyer [mailto:hans@...]
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 5:00 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ferric chloride?


COS (change of subject) for those interested I posted a photo of how I
rivet Harwin via pins
http://hans-w.com/pcb_harwin_rivets.jpg
<http://hans-w.com/pcb_harwin_rivets.jpg>
The four pads at the lower right are half of an SO8, should help to
gauge size.

Hans Wedemeyer




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Mr. Wedemeyer,
You wrote: ""I use a vertical tank (TupperWare Cereal container).
Anyone wants a photo of it let me know.""
Can you post that photo to the forum.
Best regards.
Alper YILDIRIM

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Hans Wedemeyer <hans@c...> wrote:
> I've been using the same Ferric Chloride for years and years... I
use a
> vertical tank (TupperWare Cereal container). Anyone wants a photo
of it
> let me know.
> Drill two holes in the board and thread some 24AWG plastic coated
wire
> through the holes, then suspend it in the tank. I usually end up
> agitating the board by lifting it out of and dropping it back in
the FC.
> There is still a tendency to etch faster at the top of the board,
but
> the difference is only about 2 minutes.
> Etching time is still 10-12 minutes and has not changed since I
> purchased the stuff at rat shack some years ago... 1995 I think it
> was... I still have the original bottles somewhere...
> The level is going down and last tiem I ecthed a 5" X 6" board I
needed
> to add some FC, as I did not have any, I simply added 1/2 pint of
> water....
> There is a crusty ring around the top of the FC and sometimes a
coating
> develops on the surface ( temperature dependent I think) anyway
that
> goes away by simply heating the entire Tupperware container in a
hot
> water bath and stirring for 1-2 minutes.
> IMHO people that keep using new mixture of FC are wasting time and
> money.
> Just how I do things.
> COS (change of subject) for those interested I posted a photo of
how I
> rivet Harwin via pins
> http://hans-w.com/pcb_harwin_rivets.jpg
> The four pads at the lower right are half of an SO8, should help to
> gauge size.
>
> Hans Wedemeyer
>
>
> Steve Greenfield wrote:
>
> >
> > Yep, biggest problem I've had with etching in a flat pan is that
no
> > matter what you use or how hot you get it, etched copper and used
> > acid builds up in a layer and slows the etching process. Minor
> > swishing back and forth just means that the edges etch but not
the
> > center.
> >
> > So no matter what I use, I want to use a vertical tank, probably
> > with a bubbler to keep it moving.
> >
> > Steve Greenfield
> >
> > PS I love this list!
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
> > http://faith.yahoo.com
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
files:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, please do!

Steve Greenfield

--- yildirimalper <yildirimalper@...> wrote:

> Hi Mr. Wedemeyer,
> You wrote: ""I use a vertical tank (TupperWare Cereal container).
>
> Anyone wants a photo of it let me know.""
> Can you post that photo to the forum.
> Best regards.
> Alper YILDIRIM
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Hans Wedemeyer <hans@c...> wrote:
> > I've been using the same Ferric Chloride for years and years...
> I
> use a
> > vertical tank (TupperWare Cereal container). Anyone wants a
> photo
> of it
> > let me know.

=====
Steve Greenfield // Digital photo scanning, retouching,
Polymorph Digital Photography // and photomorphing to your specs.
253/318-2473 voice // We use the best little computer in
polymorph@... // the world, the Amiga!
http://www.polyphoto.com/ // Based in Tacoma, WA, USA

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Brian,
I use Harwin pins when I have space. They require a 0.035" hole and must
be riveted for reliable connections. I understand some people don't
bother with riveting ! There is a special dispenser for the pins, I've
never seen it, and can't be bothered to get one, I simply push the rod
in and bend it, that leaves the pin jammed in place ready to rivet.
The pins are shown here
http://hans-w.com/harwin_pins.jpg
I buy them from AXIS ELECTRONICS INC. 301-840-9640 in packets of 2500
Harwin part # T1558-01
Cost... well I can't remember the exact $ figure but $35-45 including
freight sounds about right.
I rivet them with a modified automatic center punch shown here
http://hans-w.com/punch.jpg

When I need a really small via, I drill 0.016" and insert a tinned
copper wire and rivet with these modified pliers shown here
http://hans-w.com/modified_pliers.jpg
As you can see the extra clearance allow deeper access fro the edge of
the PCB. Copper wire is so soft one squeeze and it's in place.
Hans Wedemeyer


Brian Schmalz wrote:

> Hans,
> Can you describe more about your Harwin Via Pins? I'm very
> interested.
> Where did you get them, how much do they cost, what size holes do you
> drill,
> how do you apply them, etc. Your board looks very nice!
>
> *Brian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hans Wedemeyer [mailto:hans@...]
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 5:00 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ferric chloride?
>
>
> COS (change of subject) for those interested I posted a photo of how I
>
> rivet Harwin via pins
> http://hans-w.com/pcb_harwin_rivets.jpg
> <http://hans-w.com/pcb_harwin_rivets.jpg>
> The four pads at the lower right are half of an SO8, should help to
> gauge size.
>
> Hans Wedemeyer
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

[Image]

[Image]

>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Hans,

Thanks for the data.

I searched the Harwin site and could not find any data on ID of the
pins.

anyone have any other data ?

Seems like a simple answer to thru hole plating.

Dave

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Hans Wedemeyer <hans@c...> wrote:
> Brian,
> I use Harwin pins when I have space. They require a 0.035" hole and
must
> be riveted for reliable connections. I understand some people don't
> bother with riveting ! There is a special dispenser for the pins,
I've
> never seen it, and can't be bothered to get one, I simply push the
rod
> in and bend it, that leaves the pin jammed in place ready to rivet.
> The pins are shown here
> http://hans-w.com/harwin_pins.jpg
> I buy them from AXIS ELECTRONICS INC. 301-840-9640 in packets of
2500
> Harwin part # T1558-01
> Cost... well I can't remember the exact $ figure but $35-45
including
> freight sounds about right.
> I rivet them with a modified automatic center punch shown here
> http://hans-w.com/punch.jpg
>
> When I need a really small via, I drill 0.016" and insert a tinned
> copper wire and rivet with these modified pliers shown here
> http://hans-w.com/modified_pliers.jpg
> As you can see the extra clearance allow deeper access fro the edge
of
> the PCB. Copper wire is so soft one squeeze and it's in place.
> Hans Wedemeyer
>
>
> Brian Schmalz wrote:
>
> > Hans,
> > Can you describe more about your Harwin Via Pins? I'm very
> > interested.
> > Where did you get them, how much do they cost, what size holes do
you
> > drill,
> > how do you apply them, etc. Your board looks very nice!
> >
> > *Brian
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Hans Wedemeyer [mailto:hans@c...]
> > Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 5:00 PM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@y...
> > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ferric chloride?
> >
> >
> > COS (change of subject) for those interested I posted a photo of
how I
> >
> > rivet Harwin via pins
> > http://hans-w.com/pcb_harwin_rivets.jpg
> > <http://hans-w.com/pcb_harwin_rivets.jpg>
> > The four pads at the lower right are half of an SO8, should help
to
> > gauge size.
> >
> > Hans Wedemeyer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
> [Image]
>
> [Image]
>
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
files:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dave,
Try this
http://www.harwin.com/search/db_paging_1.asp
If that does not work, search for the part number T1558-01
Not much data one line. T1558-01 packs of 2500 pins.

Hans Wedemeyer



Dave Mucha wrote:

> Hi Hans,
>
> Thanks for the data.
>
> I searched the Harwin site and could not find any data on ID of the
> pins.
>
> anyone have any other data ?
>
> Seems like a simple answer to thru hole plating.
>
> Dave
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Hans Wedemeyer <hans@c...> wrote:
> > Brian,
> > I use Harwin pins when I have space. They require a 0.035" hole and
> must
> > be riveted for reliable connections. I understand some people don't
> > bother with riveting ! There is a special dispenser for the pins,
> I've
> > never seen it, and can't be bothered to get one, I simply push the
> rod
> > in and bend it, that leaves the pin jammed in place ready to rivet.
> > The pins are shown here
> > http://hans-w.com/harwin_pins.jpg
> > I buy them from AXIS ELECTRONICS INC. 301-840-9640 in packets of
> 2500
> > Harwin part # T1558-01
> > Cost... well I can't remember the exact $ figure but $35-45
> including
> > freight sounds about right.
> > I rivet them with a modified automatic center punch shown here
> > http://hans-w.com/punch.jpg
> >
> > When I need a really small via, I drill 0.016" and insert a tinned
> > copper wire and rivet with these modified pliers shown here
> > http://hans-w.com/modified_pliers.jpg
> > As you can see the extra clearance allow deeper access fro the edge
> of
> > the PCB. Copper wire is so soft one squeeze and it's in place.
> > Hans Wedemeyer
> >
> >
> > Brian Schmalz wrote:
> >
> > > Hans,
> > > Can you describe more about your Harwin Via Pins? I'm very
> > > interested.
> > > Where did you get them, how much do they cost, what size holes do
> you
> > > drill,
> > > how do you apply them, etc. Your board looks very nice!
> > >
> > > *Brian
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Hans Wedemeyer [mailto:hans@c...]
> > > Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 5:00 PM
> > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@y...
> > > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ferric chloride?
> > >
> > >
> > > COS (change of subject) for those interested I posted a photo of
> how I
> > >
> > > rivet Harwin via pins
> > > http://hans-w.com/pcb_harwin_rivets.jpg
> > > <http://hans-w.com/pcb_harwin_rivets.jpg>
> > > The four pads at the lower right are half of an SO8, should help
> to
> > > gauge size.
> > >
> > > Hans Wedemeyer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> > [Image]
>
> >
> > [Image]
> >
> > >
> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
> files:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

[Image]

[Image]

>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]