Homebrew_PCBs

I know I keep reminding everyone about not uploading larger than about
300x400 in the Photos section. And not to upload files that are
available on their own websites (like PCB programs).

I'd also like to ask if you are uploading to Files, please crop the
image and resize it to something that will fit without scaling. The
Files is up to 89% of 20M again, I just deleted some off topic files
(previously warned I was going to) but there are a lot of On Topic
good images that are over 2000 pixels on a side! Often half of that is
just the table under the board. In a few cases, the image of the PCB
is only a couple hundred pixels wide while the whole picture is
2500x1500 pixels!

I don't want to pick on anyone in particular; but some examples of
what I mean are in the PhotoEtching folder.

If I could easily click a few buttons and take care of it, I would,
but it's a monumental task to expect one person to fix these when I
must download, crop, reupload, delete the old file vs having the
uploader just crop before uploading.

Thanks,
Steve Greenfield
Listowner Homebrew_PCBs

Hi Steve,

On 9/9/05, Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:
> I know I keep reminding everyone about not uploading larger than about
> 300x400 in the Photos section. And not to upload files that are
> available on their own websites (like PCB programs).

Yahoo automatically resamples eveything to fit into 300x400.

So either you or the original poster can remove the hires version
(which only the original poster and the moderators can see).

This frees up space, but doesn't affect what the rest of the members can see.

> If I could easily click a few buttons and take care of it, I would,
> but it's a monumental task to expect one person to fix these when I
> must download, crop, reupload, delete the old file vs having the
> uploader just crop before uploading.

The original posters can just upload the hires version and then
immediately remove it (if it's larger than 300 x 400). Yahoo will
retain the auto resized version.

--
Dave Hylands
Vancouver, BC, Canada
http://www.DaveHylands.com/

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Dave Hylands <dhylands@g...> wrote:

> Hi Steve,
>
> On 9/9/05, Steve <alienrelics@y...> wrote:
> > I know I keep reminding everyone about not uploading larger than about
> > 300x400 in the Photos section. And not to upload files that are
> > available on their own websites (like PCB programs).
>
> Yahoo automatically resamples eveything to fit into 300x400.
>
> So either you or the original poster can remove the hires version
> (which only the original poster and the moderators can see).
>
> This frees up space, but doesn't affect what the rest of the members

can see.

You trimmed out a lot of that. I was concentrating on the Files section.

> > If I could easily click a few buttons and take care of it, I would,
> > but it's a monumental task to expect one person to fix these when I
> > must download, crop, reupload, delete the old file vs having the
> > uploader just crop before uploading.
>
> The original posters can just upload the hires version and then
> immediately remove it (if it's larger than 300 x 400). Yahoo will
> retain the auto resized version.

That whole section was talking about the Files section. There is no
such option in Files, it doesn't resample anything.

And in any case, if someone takes a picture with miles of table around
inches of board, in the Photos section you end up with the board being
so miniscule you can't make anything out.

Steve Greenfield

Hi Steve,

> > This frees up space, but doesn't affect what the rest of the members
> can see.
>
> You trimmed out a lot of that. I was concentrating on the Files section.

Whoops - my apologies - I missed that you were talking about the files section.

Sorry.

--
Dave Hylands
Vancouver, BC, Canada
http://www.DaveHylands.com/

Steve wrote:

>That whole section was talking about the Files section. There is no
>such option in Files, it doesn't resample anything.
>
>
>

With hosting plans at $10 or $15 per year now, maybe we should have
a dollar drive (everyone who can mail in $1) and not be stuck with Yahoo
on the files front.. For that matter my four gigs with 160GB per month
was only $100 or $120. Heck what am I saying, if the double deal is
still on (or next time it is), $20 more will add another 4 GB and
160GB/month on my package that can easily be split off, or at least part
of it. Too bad I didn't think about the domain name, Yahoo had a 3 day
special last week for 5 years of domain registration for $1.99/year or
$10 total.. I got mine but someone could have gotten HomebrewPCB etc
and pointed it to my space.. Still only like $8/year from several
places anyway..

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=367980

Has some other budget hosts, but now I'd say expand mine if it's still
available since I can make up seperate sub accounts and have anonymous
FTP etc.. Heck I can probably make a subdomain and donate 200 MB and
some bandwidth out of mine already for now, got the space to learn on
and for a site shortly, so it's low usage right now.. Bandwidth can add
up fast though, posting only the ~25MB link for the RC Heli video below
on another group ate up 1GB plus over a few days. Either way it's
pretty cheap to escape the limitations of Yahoo. $20 one time fee for
doubling on my host adds up fast since I've already doubled up a couple
of times, initial is $80 for 1GB/40GB/M, but after a couple of doublings
it's very competitive..

At any rate I'll keep it in mind for the next deals I see on hosting etc..

Haven't been in here much in a while, the $25 to $30 video camera from
CVS is excellent, and most are easy to hack to USB downloading. It's
about perfect for making quick videos of boards and materials etc for
the group, and fun for many other things too, look at the video section..

http://camerahacks.10.forumer.com/

Just some of my files, things I've done recently and a while back.
Working on a couple of websites but for now the root is just tests.

J2Lights, Lights, and Heli folders:
http://www.superference.com/images/
RC Heli and night flying clip:
http://www.superference.com/temp/

Alan

Hi,

tried it today, with mixed results (but definitely worthwhile).

A few things i noticed:

There seem to be two "stages" of tinning.
Where the heat of the heatgun was greatest, just below the center of the
nozzle, the reflow was more complete. What i see there is s rough surface.
Like the paste was much coarser as it actually is. On the other hand in
areas with less heat it appears that the board is still tinned nicely, but
with a shiny, uniform, and thinner. I wonder how the paste can tin the
board without actually reflowing...

Also, i could not get the paste to reflow to a silver appearance before
burning the board. I had expected it to go shiny silver at some stage,
like SMD paste, but it didn't. It just stays the same dull grey, but after
wiping the board off underneath is a shiny silver tinning?
The packaging says one should see when it reflows.

What about silkscreen? will it work over a board tinned that way?
Do you drill before or after tinning?


Note that i used a old solder paste with lead content, which gives a less
silvery appearance anyway. I am planning to get tin only paste, also
because it is a slightly messy procedure and i am not fond of "loose" lead
particles around and in the water.

I will make several sample pieces and heat them with different temperature
settings, to find out about the strange reflow...

ST

I tried this recently, and noticed something similar.

In my experiment I used a lead free acid based plumber's paste, and
an old clothing iron at the highest heat setting. This did not burn
the board, and did seem to leave a very thin plating of tin. I was
very liberal in applying the paste.

I tried another experiment later with a hotplate. At some point, the
paste did melt (what you're calling the second stage, I think),
leaving me with a big mess. Also, the board was scorched.

I'm guessing that the first stage was not actually melting the
solder, but rather some kind of chemical plating, but accelerated by
the heat.

Possibly this might actually be a better way to process circuit
boards than the higher temp reflow. My only complaint was that the
plating was extremely thin. Also, I'm a little concerned about the
environmental effects of washing off what must be the bulk of the
solder.

Kevin




--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> tried it today, with mixed results (but definitely worthwhile).
>
> A few things i noticed:
>
> There seem to be two "stages" of tinning.
> Where the heat of the heatgun was greatest, just below the center

of the

> nozzle, the reflow was more complete. What i see there is s rough

surface.

> Like the paste was much coarser as it actually is. On the other

hand in

> areas with less heat it appears that the board is still tinned

nicely, but

> with a shiny, uniform, and thinner. I wonder how the paste can tin

the

> board without actually reflowing...
>
> Also, i could not get the paste to reflow to a silver appearance

before

> burning the board. I had expected it to go shiny silver at some

stage,

> like SMD paste, but it didn't. It just stays the same dull grey,

but after

> wiping the board off underneath is a shiny silver tinning?
> The packaging says one should see when it reflows.
>
> What about silkscreen? will it work over a board tinned that way?
> Do you drill before or after tinning?
>
>
> Note that i used a old solder paste with lead content, which gives

a less

> silvery appearance anyway. I am planning to get tin only paste,

also

> because it is a slightly messy procedure and i am not fond

of "loose" lead

> particles around and in the water.
>
> I will make several sample pieces and heat them with different

temperature

> settings, to find out about the strange reflow...
>
> ST

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Alan King <alan@n...> wrote:

> Steve wrote:
>
> >That whole section was talking about the Files section. There is no
> >such option in Files, it doesn't resample anything.
> >
> >
> >
>
> With hosting plans at $10 or $15 per year now, maybe we should have
> a dollar drive (everyone who can mail in $1) and not be stuck with

Yahoo

> on the files front.. For that matter my four gigs with 160GB per month
> was only $100 or $120.

I already started another Yahoogroup just for files, but only a few
have joined it.

For that matter, I'd rather keep "control" of any URLs, etc. Just
because I've seen this happen before in several other groups/clubs
where someone who has control of some vital resource has a family
emergency, divorce, job change, or falling out with the group and that
resource becomes inaccessible or worthless to the group.

I get my website via NeonHQ.com. They have been very reliable. One
current deal is 200Megs (five times the 20M/20M space in Files and
Photos here), 3Gig bandwidth for $5 a month. Domain registration is
$9.50 the first time, $8 a year after. Not the cheapest, but reliable
and unlike some like Net Solutions, we'd own the domain name.

That's about $70 a year. Honestly I think it'd be tough to get 70
people to reliably donate $1 a year. But requiring payment would have
a freezing affect on the list. If I were not so broke, I'd just cover
it myself.

Steve Greenfield
listowner

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 12:10:00 +0200, Kevin Morgan <prizes@...> wrote:

>
> Possibly this might actually be a better way to process circuit
> boards than the higher temp reflow. My only complaint was that the
> plating was extremely thin. Also, I'm a little concerned about the
> environmental effects of washing off what must be the bulk of the
> solder.
> Kevin

It might be better, i noticed the same thinness but if it protects the
copper from corrosion that would be enough for me.
I had the same thoughts about the chemical-like plating without actually
reflowing.


With leadfree paste i'm not worried about the environmental effects as
much, tin is not really a problem i think.
Maybe try applying it thinner in the first place.
I also wondered if a "hot sponge" method would work (maybe a steel wool
sponge...).
Actually i was considering that before the whole solderpaste thing, a
sponge holding a solder (not too much), and a fluxed board on a hotplate
or freshly heated......


I will try that series of samples and see what happens at different
temperatures, but i would like to use leadfree paste already.

ST

I agree with you Steve.
I'd also say it is more reasonable for all members interested to join the
other list than anything else, as it provides a already familiar interface
etc..
You already provide the URL for the archive group on the bottom of each
message, so i see no reason why people wouldn'd find their way there
eventually. People are too lazy now to join, but when here it is finally
so full that it says "sorry, no way to upload" the stuff will start to go
there and ppl will follow and join.

ST

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 16:50:04 +0200, Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:

> I already started another Yahoogroup just for files, but only a few
> have joined it.
> For that matter, I'd rather keep "control" of any URLs, etc. Just
> because I've seen this happen before in several other groups/clubs
> where someone who has control of some vital resource has a family
> emergency, divorce, job change, or falling out with the group and that
> resource becomes inaccessible or worthless to the group.
> I get my website via NeonHQ.com. They have been very reliable. One
> current deal is 200Megs (five times the 20M/20M space in Files and
> Photos here), 3Gig bandwidth for $5 a month. Domain registration is
> $9.50 the first time, $8 a year after. Not the cheapest, but reliable
> and unlike some like Net Solutions, we'd own the domain name.
> That's about $70 a year. Honestly I think it'd be tough to get 70
> people to reliably donate $1 a year. But requiring payment would have
> a freezing affect on the list. If I were not so broke, I'd just cover
> it myself.
> Steve Greenfield
> listowner
>

Steve wrote:

>I already started another Yahoogroup just for files, but only a few
>have joined it.
>
>

Well things like that get a bit obtuse, I've seen it done before and
the percentage of use is usually very low on secondary outlets..

>For that matter, I'd rather keep "control" of any URLs, etc. Just
>because I've seen this happen before in several other groups/clubs
>where someone who has control of some vital resource has a family
>emergency, divorce, job change, or falling out with the group and that
>resource becomes inaccessible or worthless to the group.
>
>

:) I almost went ahead and put this stuff in, control always comes up
like it's a big issue so it was predictable. Note that you never have
full control unless you have your own server at your own house. Short
of that you always have to maintain backups, your website could
disappear instantly with no warning, no matter how 'reliable' the host
seems.
While I don't have the full reseller's package for selling tons of
websites, even the basic accounts where I'm at can split off accounts.
11 months to go on the year I just paid for.. While there is always the
possibility that something could happen, it only takes a few minutes to
redirect your domain to somewhere else. Even if I got mad lol and shut
it off in 6 months or something, you wouldn't be out a thing really. $5
for even a month is not bad.. If you buy a domain name, you can
redirect it whereever you want whenever you like.. Only took a few
minutes to redirect modellights.com to my subdomain
modellights.superference.com, and that was the first time I ever looked
at doing it. The Yahoo deal was too cheap to pass up for another domain
name for 5 years..

Besides, after another doubling the amount of space/bandwidth would be
nothing to me, maybe you are filling in $5 per month instead of just $5
really registering. $5 for a year (actually an eternity, the $20
doubling fees are one time, after that they renew along with my basic
account with no more $20..) of say 1 GB and 40 GB/month or so is very
little money, heck not even 2 gallons of gas now.. After another
doubling to 8 GB and 320 GB/month, I'd never even notice it.

>I get my website via NeonHQ.com. They have been very reliable. One
>current deal is 200Megs (five times the 20M/20M space in Files and
>Photos here), 3Gig bandwidth for $5 a month. Domain registration is
>$9.50 the first time, $8 a year after. Not the cheapest, but reliable
>and unlike some like Net Solutions, we'd own the domain name.
>
>

>That's about $70 a year. Honestly I think it'd be tough to get 70
>people to reliably donate $1 a year. But requiring payment would have
>a freezing affect on the list. If I were not so broke, I'd just cover
>it myself.
>
>

Of coure it'd be tough to get $70, but hmm $5 per month for 200Megs
and 3Gigs BW vs a one time $5 for a Gig and 40 GB/month. Whole reason
I mentioned it was because the math is very favorable with my hosting
account and the doubling taking advantage of the doublings that have
already been done, far better than $70 a year. Actually I wouldn't care
less about 200 Megs and 10/GB per month or so, so setting it up
anyway.. Homebrewpcb.superference.com, may need a domain pointed to it
to limit the bandwidth, but probably some way to do it just as a
subdomain, I haven't looked at it yet. Seperate FTP for it is a breeze
but it'll be later in the week before I can get to it, too many other
things going on right now that's why I've hardly been reading the list
lately.. Just put it up so it'll propagate for now. Left the s off on
purpose, if you get a domain to point it'll be easier to set it up as
new redirected domain, then copy and destroy the old subdomain.

Alan

Stefan Trethan wrote:

>I agree with you Steve.
>I'd also say it is more reasonable for all members interested to join the
>other list than anything else, as it provides a already familiar interface
>etc..
>
>

Standard web indexed FTP files and folders are even more familiar and
just as easy, and even less hurdles logging in and jumping around.
Direct links simply work, if HTML is on for posts you can probably just
show everything inline if you wanted to..

http://www.superference.com/images/

The above link works for pretty much anyone, and if you ask guaranteed
98% will say it was as easy or more easy getting there than getting into
the yahoo group files section.

>You already provide the URL for the archive group on the bottom of each
>message, so i see no reason why people wouldn'd find their way there
>eventually. People are too lazy now to join, but when here it is finally
>so full that it says "sorry, no way to upload" the stuff will start to go
>there and ppl will follow and join.
>
>ST
>
>
>

Why not have 10 or 50 times the space and a direct interface, and only
have one thing to deal with? You'll be amazed how many people won't
bother to hunt out the secondary tools when the primary says it's full.
If there isn't immediate success on trying to do something like an
upload, the average person's threshhold to not bother is very low.. To
the point that I'd bet money 6 months after trying to keep the main site
full and the secondary for new stuff, they'll be swapped with the
secondary being the archive, or some other system with even more work
involved with the main section having room to upload. Otherwise
there'll be a measurable effect on new uploads..

Also, lol, when was the last time you really read a footer in any
message other than just looking to see it was there? 99% of people will
never read that URL for the other group before asking why they can't
upload to the new one, even if you post a message explaining it every
day.. :) Most people simply don't have time to read all the minutiea
and ads and skip it on purpose and ask when they need something.

But enough about it, if you guys want to knock yourselves out with two
seperate 20 MB limited file sections feel free to knock yourselves out.. :)

Alan

Hi All:
Can anyone tell my where I can buy some flex circuit material. I'd like
to find two-sided stuff, but single-sided will do just fine.

Thanx
Bill

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:26:23 +0200, Alan King <alan@...> wrote:

>
> Well things like that get a bit obtuse, I've seen it done before and
> the percentage of use is usually very low on secondary outlets..

Well, it's certainly much less "secondary" than a different webspace at a
different provider owned by a different person.
It's a yahoo group, just like this one, easy to use.
If yahoo groups goes down, both goes down, and without message archives
the files are not that important.

ST

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:18:27 +0200, Bill P @ PEARL
<custserv@...> wrote:

> Hi All:
> Can anyone tell my where I can buy some flex circuit material. I'd
> like
> to find two-sided stuff, but single-sided will do just fine.
> Thanx
> Bill

Do you need plastic foil or does thin FR4 do the trick?
If it isn't bent repeatedly and like 5cm radius is OK you can bend FR4
like they do in the fluke 8000/8600 meters for the display.

You can split the glassfiber PCB material cleanly, esp. the cheaper ones.

ST

single sided flex laminate:
http://export.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=4137978&N=401

info:
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/38596.pdf

"Bill P @ PEARL" <custserv@...> wrote:
Hi All:
Can anyone tell my where I can buy some flex circuit material. I'd like
to find two-sided stuff, but single-sided will do just fine.

Thanx
Bill


---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stefan Trethan wrote:

>On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:26:23 +0200, Alan King <alan@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>> Well things like that get a bit obtuse, I've seen it done before and
>>the percentage of use is usually very low on secondary outlets..
>>
>>
>
>
>Well, it's certainly much less "secondary" than a different webspace at a
>different provider
>

Pretty meaningless, all points on the net are about the same work
away. Heck the primary group itself has a more secondary files access
method than a real open FTP area..

> owned by a different person.
>
>

Like who? What part of donating or selling a portion of my webspace
and bandwidth would lead you believe one would own it less than they own
a Yahoo group? Read through all the limitations of Yahoo group
ownership and you'll probably come to see that one can own just about
any other web space far more than you can own a group on Yahoo, no
matter who it comes from. Fact is you better have backups because if
you don't have the server in your physical possession you don't have any
real control over it anyway.

>It's a yahoo group, just like this one, easy to use.
>
>

Again, while not hard, not the slightest bit easier than direct FTP as
intially stated, and actually a little less, especially as a secondary
file area. You can't even do something simple here like
http://www.superference.com/temp/cnc.avi because of the space
limitations. Get some real FTP space and realize it really won't be the
secondary space in the first place.. That took only a few minutes with
a $25 camera to shoot and upload, with free FTP. Easier than even
logging in to Yahoo and uploading a picture.

>If yahoo groups goes down, both goes down, and without message archives
>the files are not that important.
>

Currently yes, the files are of less use of themselves than they could
be, wouldn't have a thing to do with only being able to use tiny files
though?. Of course if you're trying to explain to me that two 20 MB
file areas are better than $5 for some real space or $10 or $15 per year
with hosts rated higher on independent sites than the one Steve
mentioned then maybe you're right.. Of course you're right.


Ok, I'm convinced now, stick with the split 40 MB.

Alan

You make a lot of good points (if I ignore the snippy stuff at the
end). :'P It's a huge pain to try and make backups of a Yahoogroup,
although the messages can be downloaded via that software I forgot the
name of, I don't think it grabs links, photos, or files. And I don't
think it allows you to use those downloaded messages without the
program, so each and every person who wanted to read them would have
to buy the program.

Using a secondary Yahoogroup was just a quick, dirty, and free way to
get more space.

I found NeonHQ via WebHostingTalk.com. Which host are you using? Right
now I have about 6 low traffic URLs all using the same bandwidth, I
think I'm on 300M/3Gig for $3.50 a month. I'd gladly upgrade to a
different host as long as it's reliable, as in addition to
Homebrew_PCBs I also want to put lots more pictures and some movies up
for the Klingon club I am in.

BTW, I looked at the videos you'd posted in an earlier link, the
rotating LED rings are beautiful.

Steve Greenfield
listowner

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Alan King <alan@n...> wrote:
> Stefan Trethan wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:26:23 +0200, Alan King <alan@n...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> Well things like that get a bit obtuse, I've seen it done before and
> >>the percentage of use is usually very low on secondary outlets..
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >Well, it's certainly much less "secondary" than a different
webspace at a
> >different provider
> >
> Pretty meaningless, all points on the net are about the same work
> away. Heck the primary group itself has a more secondary files access
> method than a real open FTP area..
>
> > owned by a different person.
> >
> >
> Like who? What part of donating or selling a portion of my webspace
> and bandwidth would lead you believe one would own it less than they
own
> a Yahoo group? Read through all the limitations of Yahoo group
> ownership and you'll probably come to see that one can own just about
> any other web space far more than you can own a group on Yahoo, no
> matter who it comes from. Fact is you better have backups because if
> you don't have the server in your physical possession you don't have
any
> real control over it anyway.
>
> >It's a yahoo group, just like this one, easy to use.
> >
> >
> Again, while not hard, not the slightest bit easier than direct
FTP as
> intially stated, and actually a little less, especially as a secondary
> file area. You can't even do something simple here like
> http://www.superference.com/temp/cnc.avi because of the space
> limitations. Get some real FTP space and realize it really won't be
the
> secondary space in the first place.. That took only a few minutes with
> a $25 camera to shoot and upload, with free FTP. Easier than even
> logging in to Yahoo and uploading a picture.
>
> >If yahoo groups goes down, both goes down, and without message
archives
> >the files are not that important.
> >
> Currently yes, the files are of less use of themselves than they
could
> be, wouldn't have a thing to do with only being able to use tiny files
> though?. Of course if you're trying to explain to me that two 20 MB
> file areas are better than $5 for some real space or $10 or $15 per
year
> with hosts rated higher on independent sites than the one Steve
> mentioned then maybe you're right.. Of course you're right.
>
>
> Ok, I'm convinced now, stick with the split 40 MB.
>
> Alan