Homebrew PCBs

I am very interested at the price you are offering... do you take 
orders from malaysia ?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo" <ballendo@y...> 
wrote:
> Richard,
> 
> Thank you for the reply and the concern<G> Which price?
> 
> The answer to most of your questions is yes, with a higher 
proportion 
> of "yes's" as you go up the price scale... I've been designing and 
> building cnc machines for nearly 15 years now...
> 
> There IS a reason more expensive machines are more expensive. The 
> trick is in discovering what can be taken out and what must be left 
> in, as one pursues a lower price. 
> 
> One sure way to kill a low cost product is to try to make it do ALL 
> the same things as the higher priced unit. But sensible design is 
> another thing entirely. That IS available in ALL sizes and at ALL 
> price points. My machines are all sensibly designed. Where 
additional 
> functionality can be accomodated without undue sacrifice, it is 
> definitely added. 
> 
> But if you start making the cable runs larger--just a bit--, and 
the 
> table sizes larger--just a bit--, and the structure a bit stronger 
to 
> support "possible" added weight--just a bit-- the price is gooing 
to 
> go up more than the "four bits" just described<G> 
> 
> When this happens, either I stop doing it because it's not worth 
the 
> effort, or have to stop because the "ends" no longer meet. 
> Adding "extras" kills far more products than it saves... John 
ruskin 
> has a great quote, one of my favorites. It's at the bottom of this 
> message.
> 
> Many things that don't matter in more expensive machines DO matter 
> when the endeavor IS a business, and not just a means to Busy-
ness... 
> Things which might not be immediately apparent to a casual 
> inspection, or even to a deep inspection by someone unarmed with 
all 
> the considerations.
> 
> Some sizes and choices are dictated by "standard" lengths and sizes 
> of materials. Others by what I call the "anomoly" part. (Which 
refers 
> to the one item in any given distributors line which represents the 
> best VALUE. It can be a COLOR, a SIZE, a TYPE, or sometimes even 
just 
> a certain MFR. that has decided a particular item is the one.
> 
> As an example, I have spent many days on the phone with many 
> different mfrs of similar items, and gotten reams of quotes for 
> things that seem clearly outside the scope of what I "want". All 
for 
> this reason-- TO see where the price is lower than the item 
warrants--
> There is nearly always a DIP in the price for certain items. Nearly 
> always in a non-obviouos place. But a good distributor is not 
likely 
> to offer this information. (until you're doing 6 or 7 figures with 
> them, anyway...)
> 
> (I'm elaborating on this point because it is equally applicable in 
> getting parts for a PCB design, or designing the circuit in the 
first 
> place; when low cost is a goal.) 
> 
> I recently did some boards that needed a low amperage fet for some 
> switching. In looking over the bins at the local seller, I came 
> across a part number that I didn't know, but obviously a small fet. 
> There were three bins of these parts, enough for the small run I 
> needed to do. And they were dusty! I bought a few, and asked that 
the 
> remainder be held while I checked out the few in my circuit. They 
> worked (after some juggling of parts values) and I saved a bundle, 
> when I took that slow mover off the distributors shelves at a 
serious 
> discount. 
> 
> Other times the anomaly IS the most popular size. But you may not 
> THINK that particular size, type, color, or MFR. is the most 
popular. 
> So by perusing most of a product line, one can find the GAP part, 
the 
> abberration in the price structure and save some money, which can 
> then be used to lower the price without compromising the product.
> 
> Then there are things like box sizes, shipping sizes and weights, 
> these ALL have the same non-linear pricing, IME. Searching out the 
> anomalies is a must for a low cost unit. Sometimes this will allow 
> adding those "extras" you mention. Other times it may preclude them.
> As Mariss of Gecko once said, "Every part must have a reason to be 
in 
> the circuit, it must pull its weight, and not strain the others". 
> Well that's more than a bit of a paraphrase, what he said was far 
> more eloquent. But it meant that if you're going for price, you 
can't 
> afford extras unless they bring "something REALLY worthwhile" to 
the 
> party...
> 
> So feed me your desires as to size and speed and capabilities, and 
> trust me to find the balance between what you NEED and what I can 
> give at that price...
> 
> Thank you again for the email!
> 
> Ballendo
> 
> P.S. Here's the Ruskin quote, familiar to many:
> 
> "It is unwise to pay too much, but it is worse to pay too little.
> When you pay too much, you lose a little money . . . that is all.
> When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because 
what 
> you bought was incapable of doing what it was bought to do.
> 
> The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and 
> getting a lot . . . it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest 
> bidder it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you 
> do that, you will have enough to pay for the something better"
> John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)
>  
> Trust that I would not be promoting this quote if I thought the 500 
> buck machine was not gonna do what I say it will do<G> I've been at 
> this awhile and I'm not wet behind the ears. (anymore<G>)
> But it's not gonna be a 5kilobuck machine... I have that $5K one 
too, 
> if that's what you need!
> 
> BTW, Have you ever "played with" the online pricing calculators of 
> the pcb mfrs. (or shippers) to find the anomaly price? It takes 
more 
> than a few tries to discover how to truly get the lowest price... 
> Especially when your volume is not 500 or 1000+  It's a worthwhile 
> endeavor, IMO. and can be eye-opening, IME.
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Richard Mustakos 
> <rmustakos@a...> wrote:
> > Ballendo,
> >   I am real interested in it at the price! If you can throw in a 
> kitchen 
> > sink, I bet I could get my wife to want to buy one to! ;)
> >   However you design it, please, please, look at any way that it 
> might be extended, and make sure you don't preclude it (this is my 
> big philosophy/bitch in software design, which I do). Like 
Alexandre 
> said, can it do all that stuff? - Which I think translates to:  
> <snip>