Homebrew_PCBs

ok, I got some of the office max photo paper. so far, with three
tests, I'm underwhelmed. I think it might require a higher
temperature - the toner was staying with the paper in places. This
is at the same temp setting that I use for magazine paper. That
suprises me - I expected the toner to melt at the same point and
adhere to the copper, regardless of the paper. I'll try again
tomorrow when my acetone induced fog clears. lol

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Alan King <alan@n...> wrote:
> Phil wrote:
>
> > thanks. here's the state of my "operations":
> >
> > paper: I'm using magazine semi-glossy. I'll try some of the
coated
> > inkjet paper. I did have a couple of sheets that I used a while
ago
> > and think it had the same problem but I could be misremembering
as I
> > was fussing with learning the process. by the way, passing the
paper
> > though the copier multiple times to increase the amount of fusing
> > seems to have no effect. it does come out hot so I know its
> > getting "cooked".
> >
> > toner density: I've played with this a lot. really cranked it
down
> > and even at super light settings I am seeing the blotchiness
along
> > with complete drop out due to too little toner. In general, I
keep
> > it on the light side.
> >
> > heat: I think I've got this right as i started high and kept
> > dropping it until the toner was not adhering, then kicked it up a
> > bit. I'm getting good aherence. Using the aluminum sheet metal
seems
> > to improve the uniformity of the heating but there is still some
> > blotchiness.
> >
> > pressure: I still think this, along with uneven heating, is part
of
> > my problem. Its hard for me to control which is why I thought
the
> > metal plates would do a more even/uniform job.
> >
> > I'm not going to obsess over this blotchiness as it doesn't keep
the
> > board from being usable, it just doesn't look super clean. I'll
keep
> > at it so Me Etch Pretty, Someday.
> >
>
>
> http://www.jetprintphoto.com/c/graphicgloss.asp
>
> Try this, or find the Office Max Hammermill equivalent since
this is also a
> Hammermill paper. It has a good coating, and a paper sheet. I
think Office Max
> just bypassed JetPrint and bought their paper direct to make a bit
more money.
>
> Note that magazine paper is very thin and dense, and most has a
solid
> coating. You will easily get the smashing of toner as you're
getting, there is
> no where for the toner to go but out. There are some who swear by
the magazine
> paper mainly because it's free, but they also tend to swear you
must use a
> laminator etc to get good results. You can get great results from
this paper
> without anything else being special. And the extra fusing is to
keep the
> coating from this type paper from sticking, I wouldn't expect it to
do much for
> magazine paper. I'd assumed you were already using good paper, you
should try
> some just to understand the difference in quality and ease. Even
if you can
> live with the magazine quality for now you should see this so you
know you can
> step up if you need to later. You'll spend far more time trying to
make the
> magazine paper process good than you will just buying the 50 cents
a page paper.
> And the 20 pages in the pack for $10 lasts a good while if you're
judicious
> and print tests on normal paper first etc.
>
> Pressure is the problem, but you'll never be able to get
it 'right' with such
> a solid dense paper. You may find a mag with a thicker softer
paper, but
> they're few and far between since transport bulk dictates that thin
highly
> compressed paper is better for a mag. For contrast I can barely
make my prints
> smash at all or have uneven results, even with intentional wide
variations in
> pressure. This type paper is your limiting factor, not that you
don't have
> superhuman or mechanical control over the pressure.
>
> A few sheets of normal paper behind may mitigate some of this.
But even then
> the coating on the inkjet papers is a bit different and seperates
from the
> looser page better. My prints leave the coating on the toner with
only a little
> of the page sticking in the coating, and the extra coating tears
right at the
> trace edges, and the resulting transfers are nearly perfect, even
the holes are
> left clear even with almost all the coating sticking on the toner.
I don't
> think you could get that kind of coating seperation with the highly
compressed
> tight bonding of the magazine coating and page.
>
> Actually I'll have to try some different magazines and see if
there's
> anything out there that's as good. Free paper would be good. But
from how most
> everyone using it says lamination is absolutely critical and
knowing the basic
> construction of most pages I don't really expect to find it, but
worth checking.
> Using this paper and fusing an extra time or two so the unprinted
coating is
> dried better and won't stick are almost my whole process, and hard
to consider
> that a drawback since the paper and printer do all the work. After
that the
> ironing etc is all very simple, instead of having to get it exactly
right it's
> almost impossible to go wrong.
>
> http://photos.yahoo.com/alantak69
>
> Look in PCB, this was a rush job since I expected to have to
clean it up and
> it was just a proto board anyway, so was going to have wire jumpers
etc. Even
> with hardly ironing so a couple small pieces didn't stick, it came
out nearly
> perfect. Note the second photo, smooth even fuzz almost
everywhere, but almost
> no holes were covered so the copper was properly exposed for etch,
and only a
> couple had to be picked at by hand. Little secondary touch up or
handling
> required. Note the first pic, you can see the image in the coating
on the page
> since the coating seperation was so clean. I only spent about two
minutes doing
> the ironing, a little bit more would have likely gotten a perfect
transfer. The
> route through the pins wasn't smashing, I had it drawn a bit wide
in Eagle but
> it was still not touching and worked perfectly. While the pics are
a bit fuzzy
> from being close in, the trace edges were sharp. If your results
aren't equally
> easy and painless with just an iron by hand, maybe this will let
you see it's
> likely your choice of paper. It's hard for what I'm doing to even
mess up. The
> stepper board in the other album was a much earlier board, before I
knew to fuse
> extra and clean the copper better with acetone. Still came out
well, but took a
> lot more hand work since the coating stuck much more. That's what
the extra
> fusing is for, almost totally eliminates any unprinted coating
sticking with
> this easily seperated coating.
>
>
> Bit of a read but hopefully this will help you bypass the idea
that you need
> to do a lot of work on heat and pressure, and get you to try some
other ideas
> with a better paper. It's much easier than fixing the process with
the paper
> you're using right now, and well worth the 50 cents a page when
printing boards
> to make everything else much less critical.
>
> It's even hard for me to really work on the print to copper idea
too hard,
> this really is easy enough for my light to medium use, and doesn't
take
> modifying a printer. But I think our current ideas on that will
coexist with
> normal printing now, so if the testing works it'll be worth finding
and setting
> up one printer that can print fine on paper and also straight on
copper board.
>
> Alan