Homebrew PCBs

Mark,

After looking at my machine a bit and getting some negative feedback 
from the Ultimaker Forum, I suspect you are right. It seems unlikely 
that the plastic extruder will do well for this application. One guy 
put a UV laser on his and plotted on a sensitized pcb, but if you are 
going to do that, you might as well just use a light box and be done with it.

I did try and put some plastic on copperclad. It didn't stick when 
cold, but I suspect it would when hot. However, the first layers on 
3D printing are notoriously inconsistent, and I doubt you could make 
the process work reliably. Perhaps using wax or glue from a glue gun 
would work better.

Mark



At 01:36 AM 8/16/2013, you wrote:
>Hi,
>The home made 3D printers (Reprap, Makerbot, etc) seem to use an 
>extrusion orifice of between 0.1-0.5mm.
>Beware this is not necessarily the diameter of the plastic filament 
>left on the substrate as it all depends on the extrusion rate of the 
>plastic and the speed the head moves and the height of the nozzle 
>from the substrate or previous layer.  If the extrusion rate is too 
>high for the head speed, or the nozzle height is too low, then the 
>extruded plastic spreads out sideways, making a thicker line.
>
>Also adjacent lines may not fully fuse together.  Often there is a 
>gap between the two lines on the surface of a substrate (imagine 
>sausages lying next to each other - there will be an air gap between 
>them because sausages are round and the plate is flat).  This could 
>lead to undercutting when etching a PCB, leaving rough edges at the 
>ends of tracks.
>
> From what I've seen, the finer nozzles clog up regularly and are a 
> pain to clean.
>
>Commercial machine can do finer widths, but I've noticed on ABS 
>models I've had made that there are often microscopic voids between 
>layers.  It looks like adjacent tracks haven't totally fused or have 
>been laid down too far apart, presumably due to the software 
>cross-hatched fill algorithms.
>
>If you have a CNC mill, you could try putting a Rotring pen in the 
>chuck and use it to plot the pattern with water proof drafting ink.
>I briefly experimented with this idea, however the only ink I had 
>didn't wet the copper surface very well.  I think I need to 
>experiment with coatings to promote wetting and adhesion....
>
>Cheers,
>Mark
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
>[mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Watson
>Sent: Friday, 16 August 2013 03:17 AM
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] convert inkjet printer into wax printer
>
>I'm more interested in starting with putting down a resist, then normal
>etch from there. What's the finest PLA or ABS line the extruders in use
>today will put down? I've been thinking of messing with putting an
>extruder and heated bed on my CNC mill anyway.
>
>--Rick
>
>On 8/15/2013 9:16 AM, Mark Lerman wrote:
> >
> >
> > Silver inks are expensive, but copper inks are much less expensive
> > and are available commercially. Multiple layers are readily achieved
> > with a 3D printer. The machine I have (Ultimaker) uses a Bowden tube
> > to carry the plastic filament to the printhead. This could easily be
> > modified to carry liquid ink. I think the real problems would be
> > things like soldering and mounting components to these inks. It might
> > be workable, though, and would be an interesting way to spend a few
> > months.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > At 10:00 AM 8/15/2013, you wrote:
> > >Mark,
> > >
> > >Sounds like removal is not an issue.
> > >
> > >How liquid tight would the 3D mask be?
> > >
> > >Given that a 3D printer gives us a third dimension to the mask, I wonder
> > >what else can be done with it on the circuit board. What would be
> > very cool
> > >is if the 3D printer could form the traces on a piece of fiberglass. I
> > >recall an old process that could put down fine wire and cover it with
> > glue.
> > >
> > >Rick
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>]
> > >On Behalf Of Mark Lerman
> > >Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 6:50 AM
> > >To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] convert inkjet printer into wax printer
> > >
> > >Rick,
> > >
> > >A heated bed is no real problem - I built one that works pretty well.
> > >But I'm not sure the wax won't stick to the copper directly.
> > >I hadn't thought about removing the plastic. PLA, which is the plastic
> > >I've been using, has only one solvent I know of, Tetrahydrofuran,
> > which you
> > >can get on ebay. Heated Benzene is also supposed to work. However, by
> > >switching to ABS, you can use acetone to dissolve the plastic easily.
> > >
> > >Mark
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> > Photos:
> > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
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