Homebrew PCBs

I spent a month or so playing with a couple of these for pcb use and 
concluded that it wasn't worth the effort. While the wax is an 
excellent  resist, modifying the machine to pass boards is not a 
trivial task. They are big machines that need a significant warm up 
time, waste a lot of wax doing all sorts of "cleaning" and 
maintenance. See my posts in this group for more info.


At 10:09 PM 3/21/2012, you wrote:

>I just picked up one of these printers  off Craigslist for $40.
>
>It needed Cyan ink but it's running well.
>
>I wasn't planning to rebuild it, I just wanted to ask, who's tried 
>straightforward toner transfer with it?
>
>The way I figure it, run the print through twice to get a thicker 
>layer of wax.
>
>If I can print on silicone-treated label stock, the wax should just pop off.
>
>But an alternative I've seen is printing on regular paper, and 
>leaving it in place after ironing.   Either soak the paper in warm 
>water to loosen the wood pulp, or put the whole thing in the etchant.
>
>The etchant should soak  into the wood pulp and still do the 
>job.   I can scrub the wood pulp off later.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mark Lerman <mlerman@...> wrote:
> >
> > A final update:
> > It probably is possible to feed .062 pcbs through this printer, but
> > even if you are able to do so, the machine would be cumbersome to use
> > and not worth the effort. The machine has a mind of its own that
> > requires cleaning pages any time there is a paper jam, has timing
> > issues that are hard to emulate because the image is completely
> > printed on a large diameter aluminum drum BEFORE the paper is
> > engaged, and even if you do get everything working perfectly, you
> > would still have a huge, heavy machine sitting somewhere in your
> > workspace.  Not recommended!
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > At 06:30 PM 3/25/2011, you wrote:
> > >I'm still investigating this machine, and I think I can modify it,
> > >but it is going to take a lot of work and thought. The plan is to
> > >make it possible for the average hobbiest to modify one of these
> > >relatively easily and relatively quickly, following the directions I
> > >hope to provide. Since I do not have much of a machine shop, the mod
> > >will either be simple to do once I figure it out, or I can't do it
> > >at all. It certainly will need a microprocessor to emulate some of
> > >the sensors, but I would like to do the mod with essentially no machining.
> > >
> > >A straight path is, indeed, possible. I am currently logging and
> > >evaluating all the sensors in the paper and media path, but there
> > >are a lot of them. For instance, Tray 2 must be loaded with 8.5x11
> > >inch paper during the initialization sequence. There are sensors
> > >that determine the length and width of the paper you have loaded as
> > >well as whether there is paper loaded and whether the tray is
> > >present. So if you want to run the printer without this tray
> > >present, you have to emulate a lot of sensors!
> > >
> > >Mark
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: tda7000 <Tda7000@...>
> > > >Sent: Mar 25, 2011 5:14 PM
> > > >To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > > >Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Phaser solid ink printers
> > > >
> > > >Given the right equipment and resources I reckon it would be
> > > better to produce a direct-to-PCB-printing ..printer..  from 
> the ground up.
> > > >
> > > >Toner might be best, or some kind of inkjet which prints with
> > > proper etch resist. From your description of the Solid Ink printer
> > > it sounds like a very complex device, with all the checking,
> > > preheating, and constant cleaning etc. Replicating something like
> > > that would be difficult...
> > > >
> > > >Of course this all assumes someone has access to a good workshop,
> > > essentially a factory... could sell them to hobbyists\small
> > > businesses.. no doubt you'd need a fair bit of money to start up though..
> > > >
> > > >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mark Lerman <mlerman@> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Well, there is not enough space between the drum and the Transfix
> > > >> Roller to pass a thick pcb. I would have to replace the cams that
> > > >> raise and lower the Transfix Roller with smaller ones to make it
> > > >> work. Coupled with all the other problems, I am not sure it is worth
> > > >> the effort.
> > > >>
> > > >> Mark
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> At 05:48 PM 3/24/2011, you wrote:
> > > >> >A couple of people on the list have mentioned using Xerox solid ink
> > > >> >printers to make pcbs, so I thought I'd take a look. These machines
> > > >> >print by depositing melted wax on a large rotating aluminum drum then
> > > >> >rolling heated paper over the drum to transfer the image. This would
> > > >> >seem ideal because the wax is an excellent etch resist so that you
> > > >> >should be able to just print and etch. I bought a used Xerox Phaser
> > > >> >8400 for $100 on ebay. My preliminary thoughts/observations:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >1 - These are big, heavy machines, 65# (30Kg). They take up a
> > > lot of space.
> > > >> >2 - They take 20 minute or so to warm up and use (waste) a lot of ink
> > > >> >when they start up.
> > > >> >3 - There is an incredible amount of system and component checking
> > > >> >during the warm up period.
> > > >> >4 - There are a LOT of sensors, making it hard to force this machine
> > > >> >to do things it wasn't designed to do.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >That said, one simple way to use them is to print on thin pcb board.
> > > >> >I ran a piece of ss .009 mil board through and got an excellent print
> > > >> >right off the bat. I could simply glue this to a thicker piece of FR4
> > > >> >and I would have a very simple method of making pcbs. I haven't
> > > >> >etched a board yet, but others have said this is no problem. Since I
> > > >> >don't have a lot of this thin pcb material, I don't want to etch
> > > >> >right now, but I'll let you know.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >After taking the paper path apart, I *think* I can straighten the
> > > >> >path enough to run .062 board through, but I'm not 100% sure. There
> > > >> >would certainly have to be a microprocessor to simulate a number of
> > > >> >the sensors because there are quite a few paper sensors. In fact, the
> > > >> >paper trays even have sensors that tell the printer how wide and how
> > > >> >long the paper is as well as when the tray is empty! Another problem
> > > >> >is that when the printer is first powered up it prints this very full
> > > >> >page that must come from tray 2. Since the paper stops for awhile in
> > > >> >the paper preheater before moving onward, the preheater (which has
> > > >> >both entrance and exit sensors) has to be emulated in software.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Other problems are that every 50 pages the transfer roller is oiled,
> > > >> >and every time there is an error the printer prints 'Chase" pages to
> > > >> >clean off the drum.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Finally, there is the problem of preheating the board. A .062  pcb
> > > >> >can fit through the preheater, but I have no idea whether it can heat
> > > >> >the copper fast enough for the wax ink to transfer properly.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Lots of engineering challenges. I have put a data logger on the
> > > >> >relevant sensors and will now try to make the printer print with
> > > >> >emulated sensors. If that works, I can then see if full thickness
> > > >> >boards can pass. I'll let you know!
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Mark
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >------------------------------------
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files,
> > > and Photos:
> > > >> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, 
> Files, and Photos:
> > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, 
> and Photos:
> > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>