Homebrew PCBs

Alan,

I didn't mean to "link" you to Mikes post. My intent was to 
acknowledge your obviously experienced based comments. Poor wording 
on my part. My apologies.

I don't necessarily agree with all you've written (I do find truths 
in much of it, and in your last post); but do appreciate your taking 
the time to comment in a constructive, thoughtful way.

One main point that we disagree upon is IMO a factor of where this 
discussion is taking place. That a person will either pay less and do 
it him/herself; or pay more. The group is after all, HOMEBREW_pcb. 
The members here either LIKE doing it themselves; or they NEED to do 
it themselves. In both caases, they are used to making the kind of 
choice you've expressed.

So if I were looking to depend upon sales to folks who have skills, 
inclination and ability to make it themselves (those who will "go 
down a bit, and do some work";as you say) I'd have a very poor 
business model.

As a person who CAN do it himself; it has taken me years to 
understand that there's a whole wide world of folks who canNOT, and 
even among those who CAN, more than a few who'd just as soon pay 
someone to get it done for them. (I've a retrofit on the way from 
just such a person. fully capable of doing thework, but withouttime 
and/or inclination. to quote; buying parts is easy; getting them put 
together is another thing.)

I've chosen this group for the INITIAL step. There are MANY steps 
after that.  

Ballendo

P.S. You don't have to be "within Asia" to benefit from "Asia". Just 
where was that sheet metal house engineer located??<G>...


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Alan King <alan@n...> wrote:
>
> ballendo wrote:
> 
> >Hello,
> >
> >First, the component prices shown in Mike's listing (and Alan's 
> >previous post) are nowhere near reality for a product made in qty. 
> >(Seems he's not purchased components for multiple machines. And 
> >likely not purchased in qty. from overseas sources.)
> >  
> >
> 
>   Seems your reading it was limited, no where did I mention your 
> component prices directly, or say that the numbers are all that 
high in 
> quantity.  But there will be little extra room at $500, and not 
that 
> much at $800.  Agian, like I actually said, someone within Asia 
could 
> easily beat the heck out of you on pricing if you make enough sales 
to 
> actually notice.
> 
> >
> >Next, the 500 buck price has been clearly stated several times to 
be 
> >a special price for members of this group only; in return for 
their 
> >
> 
> >possible to offer nearly the same deal as before. 
> >  
> >
>   But you are clearly expecting to be non-negative even with low 
margin 
> at $500, or you wouldn't write the next paragraph.
> 
> >But again, there is still a minimum qty. that must be made--of the 
> >structural parts--for the project to be fiscally viable. Which is 
why 
> >this whole thread was started by me. To see if that minimum could 
be 
> >met. If not, we will proceed with another already designed and 
proven 
> >machine--the Wood Duck. Capable of PCB work, but not really 
designed 
> >for it specifically like the RR. The wood ducks are larger, and 
more 
> >expensive. 
> >  
> >
>    Get 80 names, with a signed letter of intent to actually pay you 
by 
> the end of the year from each.  Expect that to maybe turn into 20-
30 
> people actually following through and paying you by the end of the 
> year.  Frankly I'd hazard a guess the few people still active in 
the 
> group and following this, saying they were interested at the time, 
are 
> most of the 3-7 people I would also expect who would have actually 
paid 
> you last year within a reasonable time.
> 
> >The world is a lot larger than a few CNC groups on Yahoo...
> >
> >  
> >
>   Yes it is.  But again, at $800-1000 range, many will go lower for 
> minimal work, or go slightly up and buy a mill with other things in 
mind 
> as well.  Considering the computer literacy required to run CNC and 
be 
> interested in getting one, I'd also expect those few groups 
represent an 
> amazingly high percentage of all the people in the world who might 
be 
> potential customers.  Still likely only a few percent, but one out 
of 50 
> being in only 2-3 groups is a very high concentration vs sifting 
through 
> every single person in the world.
> 
> 
> >My hope was/is to provide some of you here with a machine at an 
> >excellent value. 
> >
>   My own idea of 'excellent value' outpaces this by 2x or 4x on 
> cost/benefit.  Again, it may still at least be viable as long as 
the 
> finished product is above average.  It will still likely be 
difficult to 
> get a foothold vs proven very capable products just over this price 
> range, not even thinking about if someone else lowballs, with 
similar 
> specs and lower price shortly after you start selling enough to 
notice.
> 
>   At $1000, I wouldn't even think of getting less than a mill to 
convert 
> and do full milling, or a Hermes engraver to go the other route for 
full 
> engraving ability.  Anything else would have to go well less than 
that, 
> or I'd wait for a decent deal, and bump it up to at least one of 
those 
> options.
> 
> Alan
>