Fairlight-CMI

I am hoping someone can give me some advise on a storage situation I'm in.
I have a Fairlight IIx, III, ppg's, Dx1, Synclavier, Pro tools/Mac, and some other high end music equipment in a storage facility in Arizona. I would say in the summer it gets a little over 100 degrees in the unit I have. The the spring and fall is a nice 75 to 80 degrees. The equipment is not turned on in this temperature, only stored. I could get a air conditioned unit that keeps the temperature around 80 year around. Does anyone have any thoughts if storing this in an no air conditioned unit compared to the air conditioned one? Arizona is typically dry heat.

That sounds like a great collection.  I would certainly spring for the air conditioned unit -- I would be too worried about the high temperatures warping plastic, damaging disks, etc.

Does the temperature ever change radically (hot during the day, cold at night)?  If so, I'd also worry about damage due to thermal cycling.

Maybe you could just ship all that stuff to me for "storage!" :-D

Joe


--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, greg thurman <trevon12001@...> wrote:

>
> I am hoping someone can give me some advise on a storage situation I'm in.
> I have a Fairlight IIx, III, ppg's, Dx1, Synclavier, Pro tools/Mac, and some other high end music equipment in a storage facility in Arizona. I would say in the summer it gets a little over 100 degrees in the unit I have. The the spring and fall is a nice 75 to 80 degrees. The equipment is not turned on in this temperature, only stored. I could get a air conditioned unit that keeps the temperature around 80 year around. Does anyone have any thoughts if storing this in an no air conditioned unit compared to the air conditioned one? Arizona is typically dry heat.
>

Yes the consant changes in temperature would be a concern.
> Maybe you could just ship all that stuff to me for "storage!" :-D
> 
> Joe
What a kind offer ;)

If you store electronic equipment, it is not just the temperature that matters. There are several factors involved:

1. temperature level
2. temparature fluctiations
3. speed of temperature fluctuations
4. humidity level
5. humidity changes
6. speed of humidity changes

While 75 to 100 degrees Fahrenheit ( 23 - 37 degrees Celcius ) at daytime are well within the safe range for your equipment, daily rise and fall of this temperature depends on the isolation of the room/building in which they are kept. And if your equipment is stored in boxes or flightcases. Or maybe even standing freely in the room.

It is the combination with moist that is of greater concern. If the temperature rises, the air will absorb more moist. When the temperature drops, the moist is kept in the boxes' cardboard and released slowly over time. If equipment is stored in flightcases, the moist will be contained in the air much longer. Leading to a quicker way of corrosion.

What you need to do is make sure that packing in is done in a normal climate ( 64 - 75 Fahrenheit / 50 - 70% humidity ) and your equipment is not just put in boxes or flightcases, but also wrapped in isolation and almost waterproof. You can do that by using foam and wrapperfoil around each single piece of equipment.
Alternatively, complete boxes/flightcases can be wrapped in foil. Be sure to use more than a single layer, since the foil may very well be not 100% waterproof.

If you store your equipment this way, humidity is kept at a more or less constant safe level, while temperature changes are kept low. To further reduce temparature changes, you should stack your boxes/cases very tight together and cover everything up with blankets.

I admit that this procedure requires more of an effort than simply paying for airconditioning. But it is actually even more reliable, since in case of a power-down/system failure your stuff is still safe.

When you finally get your gear back to your studio/gig, be sure to allow for more than one hour of climate adapting/venting before powering anything up.

Good luck,

Steve

Thanks Stefano, Your response to my question answers all of my concerns regarding storage. My equipment is either covered or in flight cases. The heat doesn't fluctuate much
and there is little humidity here in Arizona. Usually two types of weather here very hot 
and not as hot. In a year or so I'll transport it to a studio environment near the Ocean in California. It will eventually get to test out everything when I get a chance to take care of some business. I will be content when I leave the desert weather here.
 


--- On Mon, 8/30/10, stefano_fonzarelli <einstein@onetelnet.nl> wrote:

From: stefano_fonzarelli <einstein@onetelnet.nl>
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Storage concerns for a Fairlight IIx & III
To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 9:53 AM


  





If you store electronic equipment, it is not just the temperature that matters. There are several factors involved:

1. temperature level
2. temparature fluctiations
3. speed of temperature fluctuations
4. humidity level
5. humidity changes
6. speed of humidity changes

While 75 to 100 degrees Fahrenheit ( 23 - 37 degrees Celcius ) at daytime are well within the safe range for your equipment, daily rise and fall of this temperature depends on the isolation of the room/building in which they are kept. And if your equipment is stored in boxes or flightcases. Or maybe even standing freely in the room.

It is the combination with moist that is of greater concern. If the temperature rises, the air will absorb more moist. When the temperature drops, the moist is kept in the boxes' cardboard and released slowly over time. If equipment is stored in flightcases, the moist will be contained in the air much longer. Leading to a quicker way of corrosion.

What you need to do is make sure that packing in is done in a normal climate ( 64 - 75 Fahrenheit / 50 - 70% humidity ) and your equipment is not just put in boxes or flightcases, but also wrapped in isolation and almost waterproof. You can do that by using foam and wrapperfoil around each single piece of equipment.
Alternatively, complete boxes/flightcases can be wrapped in foil. Be sure to use more than a single layer, since the foil may very well be not 100% waterproof.

If you store your equipment this way, humidity is kept at a more or less constant safe level, while temperature changes are kept low. To further reduce temparature changes, you should stack your boxes/cases very tight together and cover everything up with blankets.

I admit that this procedure requires more of an effort than simply paying for airconditioning. But it is actually even more reliable, since in case of a power-down/system failure your stuff is still safe.

When you finally get your gear back to your studio/gig, be sure to allow for more than one hour of climate adapting/venting before powering anything up.

Good luck,

Steve

Dear Greg,

I have talked to a contact of mine who is a specialist in electronics. We got into the subject because I was trying to install an industry quality mains filter that I had stored under variing conditions over a period of approximately 10 years. The filter has three phases from which I only need to use one for my studio. When I installed it, my automatic fuse/ground-breaker pops. I went to see him about this issue, and he explained to me that 99% sure, the cause must be one or several capacitors became disfunctional.
A capacitor's funtioning decays generally; But the decay process is speeded up when a capacitor is not being used. So powering up and using this component extends its lifecycle.

I think that the Fairlightboards do not contain (m)any capacitors but mainly use integrated circuits. Nevertheless, if you would experience strange behaviour, like the unability to power up or a noticable extension of startup times of any of your gear, You would have to look for failing capacitors in the powersupply/circuits first.

It would be wise to get the help from an experienced electronics technician to assist with the exchange of these parts. It should not be a big deal, but it should be done precisely and carefully.

But don't lose any sleep over this for now.

Steven

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, greg thurman <trevon12001@...> wrote:

>
> Thanks Stefano, Your response to my question answers all of my concerns regarding storage. My equipment is either covered or in flight cases. The heat doesn't fluctuate much
> and there is little humidity here in Arizona. Usually two types of weather here very hot 
> and not as hot. In a year or so I'll transport it to a studio environment near the Ocean in California. It will eventually get to test out everything when I get a chance to take care of some business. I will be content when I leave the desert weather here.

Hi Greg & Steven,

the CMIs have many electrolytic capacitors. The question is which are just annoying when failing, and which might be dangerous, and what could be done for protection.

Details, as far as I know (I may be all mistaken - corrections highly welcome!):

Electrolytic caps consist of a cup with the fluid electrolyte, and the two electrodes - flat long thin metal sheets wound up in a spiral with very little distance between them. There is an insulation layer on one of the electrodes that's continuously re-built electrochemically while the cap is used.

If not used for a long time, the insulation layer slowly dissolves. (And using the cap in the wrong polarity, the insulation layer is actively destroyed.) When powered on again, with failing insulation, a short circuit may occur, destroying the cap, and possibly affecting the surrounding electronics. While the cap gets hot, its fluid may extend, and/or boil, and spill (through a security valve).

Alternatively, electrolytic caps can just dry out over time, and without the fluid electrolyte, they will lose their function as close-by charge-storage, -buffer or low-pass-filter.

More recently produced caps offer higher ratings in the same volume. But I don't know whether this translates to a robustness advantage for historic gear - it might have larger inter-electrode distances, but just as well, the modern parts might feature - instead of more filigrane elements - have a rougher=larger electrode surface, better electrolyte etc...?

--

How many electrolytic caps are there in the CMI II/III?

Hundreds.

Some very large, stressed ones in the power supplies: high capacities, high currents, high voltages, and high environment temperature.

Then, as computer ICs require relatively high currents on relatively short notice, many located closely to the ICs to provide the required charge without delay. And some more as filters in the audio path. All these little blue shining cylinders!

In modern PCs, failing motherboard CPU power supply caps are common; partially due to cheap/underrated hardware. The small circuitry buffering caps in the CMI are probably less critical (dried ones may impair reliability/function, but should not be deadly); I'd mostly be concerned with the power supply related ones (including those on the audio backplane/boards). A short circuit there *might* really affect surrounding parts, drying might result in more than just "ripple" on the PSU output.

I read somewhere that after years of storage, it would be good (old fashioned) practice, to connect an electrolytic cap to a low voltage first for hours or even days, before using it at its nominal voltage/load - in order to restore the insulation layer before applying real-life charges to the electrodes. I remember vaguely even having seen detailed suggestions as to cap ratings, recommended voltages, and durations in some source dealing with just the parts.

Sadly, that may be impractical for devices like the CMI, where e.g. the 68020 manual says: "the clock must never stop!" - (I forgot whether that would just impair operation or kill the IC?).

A logical compromise might be: After years of storage w/o use:
(a) Get more info; and (b) use a regulation transformer to first condition at least the CMI power supply caps by providing mains alimentation at a strongly reduced level - with all computer and audio boards disconnected, but possibly small dummy loads attached instead. I think they are all linear PSUs, so that should be feasible (?!).

But I don't know the true impact of ignoring such a procedure in real life (although after writing this posting, I remember vaguely having read some precaution recommendation related to antique computer gear due to the capacitor problem as well). And I certainly don't give a guarantee for the benefits of the compromise approach :-)

So the best thing may be to keep the gear in use?!

Kind regards, Joerg

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "stefano_fonzarelli" <einstein@...> wrote:
> [...] I think that the Fairlightboards do not contain (m)any capacitors but mainly use integrated circuits. [...]

When I lived close to NYC I had the convence of having a Synclavier Tech look at my Synclavier system. My Fairlight was serviced by a Ex Fairlight service guy. I would have to 
say as a hole out of all the Super Systems of the 80's that the Fairlight is the best built system out of them all. (#1 Fairlight #2 PPG, #3 Synclavier)  I like your theory as well Joerg. Once I get the systems up and running in a studio environment I'll let everyone know the results. I'm currently locale to the storage facility. I may bring them home and power them up to test them. It's been almost a year since they where last powered up. It will be nice to get them to there final destination in California.
 
Thanks
Greg
 
 


--- On Mon, 9/20/10, dkevefnzs <dkevefnzs@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: dkevefnzs <dkevefnzs@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Storage concerns for a Fairlight IIx & III - Re: Capacitors
To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, September 20, 2010, 7:20 PM


  



Hi Greg & Steven,

the CMIs have many electrolytic capacitors. The question is which are just annoying when failing, and which might be dangerous, and what could be done for protection.

Details, as far as I know (I may be all mistaken - corrections highly welcome!):

Electrolytic caps consist of a cup with the fluid electrolyte, and the two electrodes - flat long thin metal sheets wound up in a spiral with very little distance between them. There is an insulation layer on one of the electrodes that's continuously re-built electrochemically while the cap is used.

If not used for a long time, the insulation layer slowly dissolves. (And using the cap in the wrong polarity, the insulation layer is actively destroyed.) When powered on again, with failing insulation, a short circuit may occur, destroying the cap, and possibly affecting the surrounding electronics. While the cap gets hot, its fluid may extend, and/or boil, and spill (through a security valve).

Alternatively, electrolytic caps can just dry out over time, and without the fluid electrolyte, they will lose their function as close-by charge-storage, -buffer or low-pass-filter.

More recently produced caps offer higher ratings in the same volume. But I don't know whether this translates to a robustness advantage for historic gear - it might have larger inter-electrode distances, but just as well, the modern parts might feature - instead of more filigrane elements - have a rougher=larger electrode surface, better electrolyte etc...?

--

How many electrolytic caps are there in the CMI II/III?

Hundreds.

Some very large, stressed ones in the power supplies: high capacities, high currents, high voltages, and high environment temperature.

Then, as computer ICs require relatively high currents on relatively short notice, many located closely to the ICs to provide the required charge without delay. And some more as filters in the audio path. All these little blue shining cylinders!

In modern PCs, failing motherboard CPU power supply caps are common; partially due to cheap/underrated hardware. The small circuitry buffering caps in the CMI are probably less critical (dried ones may impair reliability/function, but should not be deadly); I'd mostly be concerned with the power supply related ones (including those on the audio backplane/boards). A short circuit there *might* really affect surrounding parts, drying might result in more than just "ripple" on the PSU output.

I read somewhere that after years of storage, it would be good (old fashioned) practice, to connect an electrolytic cap to a low voltage first for hours or even days, before using it at its nominal voltage/load - in order to restore the insulation layer before applying real-life charges to the electrodes. I remember vaguely even having seen detailed suggestions as to cap ratings, recommended voltages, and durations in some source dealing with just the parts.

Sadly, that may be impractical for devices like the CMI, where e.g. the 68020 manual says: "the clock must never stop!" - (I forgot whether that would just impair operation or kill the IC?).

A logical compromise might be: After years of storage w/o use:
(a) Get more info; and (b) use a regulation transformer to first condition at least the CMI power supply caps by providing mains alimentation at a strongly reduced level - with all computer and audio boards disconnected, but possibly small dummy loads attached instead. I think they are all linear PSUs, so that should be feasible (?!).

But I don't know the true impact of ignoring such a procedure in real life (although after writing this posting, I remember vaguely having read some precaution recommendation related to antique computer gear due to the capacitor problem as well). And I certainly don't give a guarantee for the benefits of the compromise approach :-)

So the best thing may be to keep the gear in use?!

Kind regards, Joerg

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "stefano_fonzarelli" <einstein@...> wrote:
> [...] I think that the Fairlightboards do not contain (m)any capacitors but mainly use integrated circuits. [...]