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CMI III error : No CMI31 Channel cards connected

CMI III error : No CMI31 Channel cards connected

2010-07-04 by arroncx

HI there : 

I feel im getting closer, but still no full boot. 

On the startup screen, I always get "Cmi Channel Card Detected : None Detected"

Does any one know how this detection proccess works , and where to start looking for the problem ? All the Cmi Cards have flashing lights on them, so they are at least getting power.

Thanks,

Arron

Re: CMI III error : No CMI31 Channel cards connected

2010-07-05 by horiprod

Hi Arron.

The CMI does a real basic hardware check of channel cards through the motherboard. However, all the timing clocks for the channels come from the aptly named channel support card, CMI 32. If you can't substitute a known good replacement, check the master clock on this, and then the two delay chips which provide the timing signals. Sorry can't remember what they're called - still on holiday, and spent the evening in a canal side bar in East London drinking the finest wines known to humanity.....

Regards,

Peter Wielk



--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "arroncx" <aclague@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> HI there : 
> 
> I feel im getting closer, but still no full boot. 
> 
> On the startup screen, I always get "Cmi Channel Card Detected : None Detected"
> 
> Does any one know how this detection proccess works , and where to start looking for the problem ? All the Cmi Cards have flashing lights on them, so they are at least getting power.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Arron
>

Re: CMI III error : No CMI31 Channel cards connected

2010-07-07 by arroncx

Thanks for the advice Peter : really appreciate it. 

Im beginning to think that the channel support card is badly broken : there was a fair bit of corrosion on the solder, and it looks in a bad way. :(

Also, I found that a pin had broken off inside CMI 28 card, and so Im going to try and replace the ribbon cable terminator with one I have removed from an old CMI31 card. Im not sure this will be successful though, as the double sided board might not survive the removal process.

Anyway : enjoy your holiday, and l'll let you know how i get on :)

And thanks again for the advice .

Best wishes Arron 

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "horiprod" <horizontal_productions@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi Arron.
> 
> The CMI does a real basic hardware check of channel cards through the motherboard. However, all the timing clocks for the channels come from the aptly named channel support card, CMI 32. If you can't substitute a known good replacement, check the master clock on this, and then the two delay chips which provide the timing signals. Sorry can't remember what they're called - still on holiday, and spent the evening in a canal side bar in East London drinking the finest wines known to humanity.....
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Peter Wielk
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "arroncx" <aclague@> wrote:
> >
> > HI there : 
> > 
> > I feel im getting closer, but still no full boot. 
> > 
> > On the startup screen, I always get "Cmi Channel Card Detected : None Detected"
> > 
> > Does any one know how this detection proccess works , and where to start looking for the problem ? All the Cmi Cards have flashing lights on them, so they are at least getting power.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Arron
> >
>

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: CMI III error : No CMI31 Channel cards connected

2010-07-09 by Joe Sleator

Hi Arron...
Don't ruin what might be a perfectly good CMI28 or CMI31. The world's short of 'em as it is!
Also, CMI28 is not your problem, from your description of things.
If you MUST replace that CMI28 pin (which pin is it?) why not just get another PCB mount ribbon cable socket from your local electronics store, or better yet, simply pull a single pin from another ribbon connector socket. They are 'L' shaped pins. You can then cut a slot in the original ribbon connector and remove what's left of the old broken pin. Just that pin. No sense in toasting the whole board.
The other thing to do is check which pin it is. The CMI 28 ribbon is fairly low priority as CMI ribbons go. Also not every pin is critical in that ribbon. They are MIDI/SMTE/SYNC in and out, and are absolutely not required to boot up a series III.
Absolutely certain the symptoms you're seeing aren't due to something wrong with the CMI28 or its connector. Like Peter says, sounds much more like the channel support card. And of that, I'd say give it a clean and make sure the critical signals are coming off it. It's not a very complex card, but it's very important as all the waveform buss timing and CC timing comes from this card.
The other general advice is to double-check the slot-keys in your backplane. They occasionally fall out and cause cards to mis-seat. It absolutely causes boot failures and blown fuses.
> Im not sure this will be successful though, as the double sided board might not survive the
> removal process.
You're probably right. And it won't fix your symptoms at all.
Good luck,
Joe
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:24 AM, arroncx <aclague@synapse-consulting.com> wrote:

Thanks for the advice Peter : really appreciate it.

Im beginning to think that the channel support card is badly broken : there was a fair bit of corrosion on the solder, and it looks in a bad way. :(

Also, I found that a pin had broken off inside CMI 28 card, and so Im going to try and replace the ribbon cable terminator with one I have removed from an old CMI31 card. Im not sure this will be successful though, as the double sided board might not survive the removal process.

Anyway : enjoy your holiday, and l'll let you know how i get on :)

And thanks again for the advice .

Best wishes Arron


--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "horiprod" wrote:
>
> Hi Arron.
>
> The CMI does a real basic hardware check of channel cards through the motherboard. However, all the timing clocks for the channels come from the aptly named channel support card, CMI 32. If you can't substitute a known good replacement, check the master clock on this, and then the two delay chips which provide the timing signals. Sorry can't remember what they're called - still on holiday, and spent the evening in a canal side bar in East London drinking the finest wines known to humanity.....
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Wielk
>
>
>
> --- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "arroncx" wrote:
> >
> > HI there :
> >
> > I feel im getting closer, but still no full boot.
> >
> > On the startup screen, I always get "Cmi Channel Card Detected : None Detected"
> >
> > Does any one know how this detection proccess works , and where to start looking for the problem ? All the Cmi Cards have flashing lights on them, so they are at least getting power.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Arron
> >
>


Re: CMI III error : No CMI31 Channel cards connected

2010-07-10 by arroncx

Hi Joe : thanks for all the brilliant advice :) I am very gratefull to all of you guys for the support. 

With regard to the CMI31 card : it wasnt working anyway : I bought it as spares of a bloke on ebay. It didnt ever work. Still have the electronics on their if i need more parts of it in the future.

With regard to the ribbon terminator : i was unable to remove the Pin, buy cutting the board as you suggest because i couldnt get a good enough angle on it while still attached to the board. 

I have dropped the CMI-32 card off at a electronics company to see if they can replace the connector : I am hoping that with better tools and expertise, they might be able to replace it for me, and have also told them about your suggestion with regard to cutting out the bad pin only. Ill let you know which they choose. BTW : the broken pin is top rightmost :

..........x      pins
...........
_______       Board

I appreciate that the ribbon cable connector cannot be the boot issue : it would boot fine without the ribbon card connected. 

I cleaned the CMI-31 card, and tested the tracks : seems to be ok continuity wise, and re-heated the corroded pins to get them nice and silver again. It still dosnt show any channel cards, unfrtunately. 

Since I last posted, I now have the service manual, so when I get some time I can maybe start checking the timing signals : I dont have a digital extender board however, so any suggestions on a practical way to do this would be appreciated.

With regard to the slots, they seem fine, and I have taken the mainfame panels off so I can manually inspect the cards are going into the slots correctly.

With regard to the blown fuses : I accidentadly knocked out the internal ribbon cable that goes between the VGA converter board and CG3 card which must have done that, as the system was powered up at the time.

As for the internal fuse, I have the MIDI and SMTPE sync boards in the wrong slots, and that could mabe have taken out the +5v fuse.

Cheers again for the suggestions :)

Best : Arron

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, Joe Sleator <joe.sleator@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi Arron...
> 
> Don't ruin what might be a perfectly good CMI28 or CMI31. The world's short
> of 'em as it is!
> Also, CMI28 is not your problem, from your description of things.
> 
> If you MUST replace that CMI28 pin (which pin is it?) why not just get
> another PCB mount ribbon cable socket from your local electronics store, or
> better yet, simply pull a single pin from another ribbon connector socket.
> They are 'L' shaped pins. You can then cut a slot in the original ribbon
> connector and remove what's left of the old broken pin. Just that pin. No
> sense in toasting the whole board.
> 
> The other thing to do is check which pin it is. The CMI 28 ribbon is fairly
> low priority as CMI ribbons go. Also not every pin is critical in that
> ribbon. They are MIDI/SMTE/SYNC in and out, and are absolutely not required
> to boot up a series III.
> 
> Absolutely certain the symptoms you're seeing aren't due to something wrong
> with the CMI28 or its connector. Like Peter says, sounds much more like the
> channel support card. And of that, I'd say give it a clean and make sure the
> critical signals are coming off it. It's not a very complex card, but it's
> very important as all the waveform buss timing and CC timing comes from this
> card.
> 
> The other general advice is to double-check the slot-keys in your backplane.
> They occasionally fall out and cause cards to mis-seat. It absolutely causes
> boot failures and blown fuses.
> 
> > Im not sure this will be successful though, as the double sided board
> might not survive the
> > removal process.
> 
> You're probably right. And it won't fix your symptoms at all.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Joe
> 
> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:24 AM, arroncx <aclague@...>wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the advice Peter : really appreciate it.
> >
> > Im beginning to think that the channel support card is badly broken : there
> > was a fair bit of corrosion on the solder, and it looks in a bad way. :(
> >
> > Also, I found that a pin had broken off inside CMI 28 card, and so Im going
> > to try and replace the ribbon cable terminator with one I have removed from
> > an old CMI31 card. Im not sure this will be successful though, as the double
> > sided board might not survive the removal process.
> >
> > Anyway : enjoy your holiday, and l'll let you know how i get on :)
> >
> > And thanks again for the advice .
> >
> > Best wishes Arron
> >
> > --- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com <Fairlight-CMI%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "horiprod" <horizontal_productions@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Arron.
> > >
> > > The CMI does a real basic hardware check of channel cards through the
> > motherboard. However, all the timing clocks for the channels come from the
> > aptly named channel support card, CMI 32. If you can't substitute a known
> > good replacement, check the master clock on this, and then the two delay
> > chips which provide the timing signals. Sorry can't remember what they're
> > called - still on holiday, and spent the evening in a canal side bar in East
> > London drinking the finest wines known to humanity.....
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Peter Wielk
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com <Fairlight-CMI%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "arroncx" <aclague@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > HI there :
> > > >
> > > > I feel im getting closer, but still no full boot.
> > > >
> > > > On the startup screen, I always get "Cmi Channel Card Detected : None
> > Detected"
> > > >
> > > > Does any one know how this detection proccess works , and where to
> > start looking for the problem ? All the Cmi Cards have flashing lights on
> > them, so they are at least getting power.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Arron
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
>

CMI boot problems...

2010-07-12 by horiprod

Hi Arron.

You seem to be getting there - gradually... However it's virtually impossible to work on a CMI  at board level without a set of extender cards...

So, in my extremely fatigued state at Heathrow airport, I'm volunteering a set of said cards to be used by the group...

Back in Sydney in a couple of days...

Regards,

Peter Wielk

Currently in Qantas club lounge nursing a bloody Mary...

risky purchase the fairlight?

2010-07-13 by blixton

Does the fairlight IIx contain chips and other components that can not 
be sourced or may not be in the near future if they were to fail?

tTHanks

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] risky purchase the fairlight?

2010-07-14 by Joe Sleator

It's very hard to say what will happen to mostly-ttl things like fairlights and old computers in the future, but there is so much old digital hardware floating around, it's not likely the world's supply of _reusable_ ttl will dry up any time soon.
I'd have to say compared with other items of similar age, say Tektronix or HP test instruments the parts are more readily available. A IIx contains almost no truly custom, irreproducible logic, unlike some other 80's stuff. The most obscure and 'hard-to-copy' items would likely be analog synth-specific ICs, bipolar proms, eproms and pals. Also, compared with, say an Emulator II, PPG Wave, Waveterm, Rhodes Chroma, or Prophet, or some other 80's synth, the parts are slightly more common in general, and the design is VERY logical and well documented.
In that regard they're a lot like an original Apple II plus, or maybe a vintage coin-op PAC-man game. Mostly (95%) TTL. The only quite rare parts are the analog audio chips.
Also, almost any old IC can be had for a price, it's just a question of whether the price is viable or not.
In order of rarity, I'd say it's like:
SSM2045, CEM3320, DBX2150, Motorola MC3242 dram mux. (CMI01, 01A channel cards)
Some of these can be had by ripping apart other, dare I say lesser, synths or even old mixer desks or PABX equipment.
Harris bipolar proms (graphics card)
2716 and 2732 eproms and various pals.
Motorola 6840 Timer chip
There are a lot of Motorola 6821s in the IIx but they are actually very easy to get, being a big part of lots of coin-op and pinball machines.

With determination many of the non-analog parts can be replaced with modern counterparts, old roms with newer bigger roms with pin adjustments, pals with peels or gals. Even collections of custom ICs can be replaced with FPGAs, it's all a matter of whether it's worth the trouble.
And never throw away your old Series III audio boards, cause they contain parts common for spares with the series IIx as well.
Joe
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 5:46 PM, blixton <blixton@aromabar.com> wrote:

Does the fairlight IIx contain chips and other components that can not
be sourced or may not be in the near future if they were to fail?

tTHanks


Re: [Fairlight-CMI] risky purchase the fairlight?

2010-07-14 by Peter K.

Thanks for your answer Joe. I was wondering about that question too.

Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Fairlight-CMI] risky purchase the fairlight?

It's very hard to say what will happen to mostly-ttl things like fairlights and old computers in the future, but there is so much old digital hardware floating around, it's not likely the world's supply of _reusable_ ttl will dry up any time soon.
I'd have to say compared with other items of similar age, say Tektronix or HP test instruments the parts are more readily available. A IIx contains almost no truly custom, irreproducible logic, unlike some other 80's stuff. The most obscure and 'hard-to-copy' items would likely be analog synth-specific ICs, bipolar proms, eproms and pals. Also, compared with, say an Emulator II, PPG Wave, Waveterm, Rhodes Chroma, or Prophet, or some other 80's synth, the parts are slightly more common in general, and the design is VERY logical and well documented.
In that regard they're a lot like an original Apple II plus, or maybe a vintage coin-op PAC-man game. Mostly (95%) TTL. The only quite rare parts are the analog audio chips.
Also, almost any old IC can be had for a price, it's just a question of whether the price is viable or not.
In order of rarity, I'd say it's like:
SSM2045, CEM3320, DBX2150, Motorola MC3242 dram mux. (CMI01, 01A channel cards)
Some of these can be had by ripping apart other, dare I say lesser, synths or even old mixer desks or PABX equipment.
Harris bipolar proms (graphics card)
2716 and 2732 eproms and various pals.
Motorola 6840 Timer chip
There are a lot of Motorola 6821s in the IIx but they are actually very easy to get, being a big part of lots of coin-op and pinball machines.

With determination many of the non-analog parts can be replaced with modern counterparts, old roms with newer bigger roms with pin adjustments, pals with peels or gals. Even collections of custom ICs can be replaced with FPGAs, it's all a matter of whether it's worth the trouble.
And never throw away your old Series III audio boards, cause they contain parts common for spares with the series IIx as well.
Joe
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 5:46 PM, blixton <blixton@aromabar.com> wrote:

Does the fairlight IIx contain chips and other components that can not
be sourced or may not be in the near future if they were to fail?

tTHanks


Re: risky purchase the fairlight?

2010-07-14 by dvdborn

I would guess that the 8-inch floppy drives are the rarest components. Or am I wrong?

I know that some IIx machines have been fitted with 3.5-inch drives but I don't know if this is an easy fix.

David
http://dvdborn.blogspot.com


--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, blixton <blixton@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Does the fairlight IIx contain chips and other components that can not 
> be sourced or may not be in the near future if they were to fail?
> 
> tTHanks
>

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: risky purchase the fairlight?... Floppy Drives replacement

2010-07-15 by Peter K.

Here are some links I collected during the years:
Replacing with 3.5" drives would be great, but still some kind of solid state memory, like CF etc, would be best............
They are at it, but so sloooooowly..........
Regards,
Peter Kersten.

From: dvdborn
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 11:37 PM
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: risky purchase the fairlight?

I would guess that the 8-inch floppy drives are the rarest components. Or am I wrong?

I know that some IIx machines have been fitted with 3.5-inch drives but I don't know if this is an easy fix.

David
http://dvdborn.blogspot.com

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, blixton wrote:
>
> Does the fairlight IIx contain chips and other components that can not
> be sourced or may not be in the near future if they were to fail?
>
> tTHanks
>

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: risky purchase the fairlight?... Floppy Drives replacement

2010-07-21 by Peter K.

Actually this project is already going on for quite some time now. It has already been tested with a CMI, seems to work for reading, but not yet for writing.
Sadly the progress is very very slow...........
Regards,
Peter Kersten.

Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:43 AM
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: risky purchase the fairlight?... Floppy Drives replacement

There maybe some more hope:

http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator

and an Oberheim DPX-1 5 1/4" drive replaced with SD (this is for EII samples)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G9UBxyhbOU

Cheers

Chris

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: risky purchase the fairlight?... Floppy Drives replacement

2010-07-24 by Peter K.

Of course the link was wrong, it should be: http://www.torlus.com/floppy/index.php?News
I already send an earlier mail to correct this, but it seems to got lost in space..........
Sorry if I confused anyone
Regards,
Peter Kersten.

From: Peter K.
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: risky purchase the fairlight?... Floppy Drives replacement

Actually this project is already going on for quite some time now. It has already been tested with a CMI, seems to work for reading, but not yet for writing.
Sadly the progress is very very slow...........
Regards,
Peter Kersten.

Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:43 AM
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: risky purchase the fairlight?... Floppy Drives replacement

There maybe some more hope:

http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator

and an Oberheim DPX-1 5 1/4" drive replaced with SD (this is for EII samples)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G9UBxyhbOU

Cheers

Chris

Floppy adventure continues !

2010-07-26 by Thomas Heckmann

Hi guys,

just ordered a HxC Floppy emulator SD version !
As soon as it arrives I will check if it will work and replace one of my 3,5" Floppies on my IIx...
And then goodbye unreliable Floppy-Drives :-)
When I do this I will also check how Kampfhofer made the conversion for the 3,5" Floppies on my machine.
Guess this is of interest to you all ;-)

Best

Thomas

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] Floppy adventure continues !

2010-07-26 by WT

You bet !

:)

WT
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Thomas Heckmann" <troperecordings@t-online.de>
To: <Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 6:17 PM
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Floppy adventure continues !


Hi guys,

just ordered a HxC Floppy emulator SD version !
As soon as it arrives I will check if it will work and replace one of my 
3,5" Floppies on my IIx...
And then goodbye unreliable Floppy-Drives :-)
When I do this I will also check how Kampfhofer made the conversion for the 
3,5" Floppies on my machine.
Guess this is of interest to you all ;-)

Best

Thomas

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] Floppy adventure continues !

2010-07-27 by Peter K.

(I'm lost for the right words.............)
Peter Kersten.

Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 6:17 PM
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Floppy adventure continues !

Hi guys,

just ordered a HxC Floppy emulator SD version !
As soon as it arrives I will check if it will work and replace one of my 3,5" Floppies on my IIx...
And then goodbye unreliable Floppy-Drives :-)
When I do this I will also check how Kampfhofer made the conversion for the 3,5" Floppies on my machine.
Guess this is of interest to you all ;-)

Best

Thomas

Re: Floppy adventure continues !

2010-07-27 by dd_62622

Magnifique !

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "Peter K." <synthserv@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> 
> 
> (I'm lost for the right words.............)
> 
> Peter Kersten.
> 
> 
> From: Thomas Heckmann 
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 6:17 PM
> To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com 
> Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Floppy adventure continues !
> 
> 
>   
> Hi guys,
> 
> just ordered a HxC Floppy emulator SD version !
> As soon as it arrives I will check if it will work and replace one of my 3,5" Floppies on my IIx...
> And then goodbye unreliable Floppy-Drives :-)
> When I do this I will also check how Kampfhofer made the conversion for the 3,5" Floppies on my machine.
> Guess this is of interest to you all ;-)
> 
> Best
> 
> Thomas
>

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] Floppy adventure continues !

2010-07-28 by Joe Sleator

Hi,
Sounds like great news. Last I checked, according to some testing, this thing would read CMI floppy images fine, but couldn't write back. So you could boot CMI, and load samples, etc, but not really save anything. Hopefully this will or has changed.
Best,
Joe
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 2:17 AM, Thomas Heckmann <troperecordings@t-online.de> wrote:

Hi guys,

just ordered a HxC Floppy emulator SD version !
As soon as it arrives I will check if it will work and replace one of my 3,5" Floppies on my IIx...
And then goodbye unreliable Floppy-Drives :-)
When I do this I will also check how Kampfhofer made the conversion for the 3,5" Floppies on my machine.
Guess this is of interest to you all ;-)

Best

Thomas


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