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3,5" floppy drives on CMI II replacing the 8" drives - done, works

3,5" floppy drives on CMI II replacing the 8" drives - done, works

2010-05-23 by dkevefnzs

Hi all,

this is just to note that I've successfully replaced the 8" drives on the CMI II with 3.5" drives. 8" disks can directly be copied to 3.5" as long as one drive of either size is attached.

I guess the same mod should also work on a CMI IIx. It has one tiny limitation from technical perfection, but in practice, has performed flawlessly in my system.

And... with the CMI II positioned in a "tower" orientation with the floppy drives on the upper end, I left the top (former right) panel unscrewed and placed both 3.5" drives right under that hood. Lifting the panel I can easily change disks - and putting it back in place, apart from the missing noise and blinkenlights off the old drives (and the cessation of my involvement in 8" disk ebay-auctions), you shouldn't notice a difference :-)

I'm wondering if anyone else should be interested in this mod. If so, please send me a message - however, I'm probably busy till mid June and don't check my yahoo account very often, so please allow me some time to respond.

Thank you & cheers, js

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] 3,5" floppy drives on CMI II replacing the 8" drives - done, works

2010-05-23 by WT

Oh yes....please.

WT
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dkevefnzs" <dkevefnzs@yahoo.com>
To: <Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:16 AM
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] 3,5" floppy drives on CMI II replacing the 8" 
drives - done, works


Hi all,

this is just to note that I've successfully replaced the 8" drives on the 
CMI II with 3.5" drives. 8" disks can directly be copied to 3.5" as long as 
one drive of either size is attached.

I guess the same mod should also work on a CMI IIx. It has one tiny 
limitation from technical perfection, but in practice, has performed 
flawlessly in my system.

And... with the CMI II positioned in a "tower" orientation with the floppy 
drives on the upper end, I left the top (former right) panel unscrewed and 
placed both 3.5" drives right under that hood. Lifting the panel I can 
easily change disks - and putting it back in place, apart from the missing 
noise and blinkenlights off the old drives (and the cessation of my 
involvement in 8" disk ebay-auctions), you shouldn't notice a difference :-)

I'm wondering if anyone else should be interested in this mod. If so, please 
send me a message - however, I'm probably busy till mid June and don't check 
my yahoo account very often, so please allow me some time to respond.

Thank you & cheers, js

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] 3,5" floppy drives on CMI II replacing the 8" drives - done, works

2010-05-24 by Peter K.

To repeat WT: "Oh yes....please"
You make a good chance to get at the top of my "heroes"-list :D
Regards,
Peter Kersten.

From: dkevefnzs
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:16 AM
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] 3,5" floppy drives on CMI II replacing the 8" drives - done, works

Hi all,

this is just to note that I've successfully replaced the 8" drives on the CMI II with 3.5" drives. 8" disks can directly be copied to 3.5" as long as one drive of either size is attached.

I guess the same mod should also work on a CMI IIx. It has one tiny limitation from technical perfection, but in practice, has performed flawlessly in my system.

And... with the CMI II positioned in a "tower" orientation with the floppy drives on the upper end, I left the top (former right) panel unscrewed and placed both 3.5" drives right under that hood. Lifting the panel I can easily change disks - and putting it back in place, apart from the missing noise and blinkenlights off the old drives (and the cessation of my involvement in 8" disk ebay-auctions), you shouldn't notice a difference :-)

I'm wondering if anyone else should be interested in this mod. If so, please send me a message - however, I'm probably busy till mid June and don't check my yahoo account very often, so please allow me some time to respond.

Thank you & cheers, js

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] 3,5" floppy drives on CMI II replacing the 8" drives - done, works

2010-05-24 by Peter K.

Just wondering What is this "one tiny limitation from technical perfection"?

From: dkevefnzs
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:16 AM
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] 3,5" floppy drives on CMI II replacing the 8" drives - done, works

Hi all,

this is just to note that I've successfully replaced the 8" drives on the CMI II with 3.5" drives. 8" disks can directly be copied to 3.5" as long as one drive of either size is attached.

I guess the same mod should also work on a CMI IIx. It has one tiny limitation from technical perfection, but in practice, has performed flawlessly in my system.

And... with the CMI II positioned in a "tower" orientation with the floppy drives on the upper end, I left the top (former right) panel unscrewed and placed both 3.5" drives right under that hood. Lifting the panel I can easily change disks - and putting it back in place, apart from the missing noise and blinkenlights off the old drives (and the cessation of my involvement in 8" disk ebay-auctions), you shouldn't notice a difference :-)

I'm wondering if anyone else should be interested in this mod. If so, please send me a message - however, I'm probably busy till mid June and don't check my yahoo account very often, so please allow me some time to respond.

Thank you & cheers, js

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] 3,5" floppy drives on CMI II replacing the 8" drives - done, works

2010-05-24 by Thomas Heckmann

Hi,

my Fairlight IIx has also 3.5" Floppies installed and you can copy or start from either of them.
Both ate installed between the 8" drives and it was done by a guy called Kampfhofer, who did 
some cool mods in the 80s and 90s. He also gave my Jupiter 4 full Midi (sending and receiving all sliders as well !!!) 
and 128 programs.
It's nice to have the os starting and running from 3.5" and I copied most of my sound Disks to 3,5"
for backup and safety. Though I must say that I use the 8" drives from time to time, otherwise
the hydraulic oil in them get sticky. 
I will post some pics asap.

Best

Thomas
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On May 24, 2010, at 12:16 AM, dkevefnzs wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> this is just to note that I've successfully replaced the 8" drives on the CMI II with 3.5" drives. 8" disks can directly be copied to 3.5" as long as one drive of either size is attached.
> 
> I guess the same mod should also work on a CMI IIx. It has one tiny limitation from technical perfection, but in practice, has performed flawlessly in my system.
> 
> And... with the CMI II positioned in a "tower" orientation with the floppy drives on the upper end, I left the top (former right) panel unscrewed and placed both 3.5" drives right under that hood. Lifting the panel I can easily change disks - and putting it back in place, apart from the missing noise and blinkenlights off the old drives (and the cessation of my involvement in 8" disk ebay-auctions), you shouldn't notice a difference :-)
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone else should be interested in this mod. If so, please send me a message - however, I'm probably busy till mid June and don't check my yahoo account very often, so please allow me some time to respond.
> 
> Thank you & cheers, js
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] 3,5" floppy drives on CMI II replacing the 8" drives - done, works

2010-05-24 by Peter K.

Thanks for the info Thomas.
The guys name is Dieter Kampfhofer. I'm trying to get in contact with him already and asked for his address on a German forum that mentions his name. If you have his mail, that would be cool.
As for the pics: Yes please :D
Regards,
Peter.

Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Fairlight-CMI] 3,5" floppy drives on CMI II replacing the 8" drives - done, works

Hi,

my Fairlight IIx has also 3.5" Floppies installed and you can copy or start from either of them.
Both ate installed between the 8" drives and it was done by a guy called Kampfhofer, who did
some cool mods in the 80s and 90s. He also gave my Jupiter 4 full Midi (sending and receiving all sliders as well !!!)
and 128 programs.
It's nice to have the os starting and running from 3.5" and I copied most of my sound Disks to 3,5"
for backup and safety. Though I must say that I use the 8" drives from time to time, otherwise
the hydraulic oil in them get sticky.
I will post some pics asap.

Best

Thomas

On May 24, 2010, at 12:16 AM, dkevefnzs wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> this is just to note that I've successfully replaced the 8" drives on the CMI II with 3.5" drives. 8" disks can directly be copied to 3.5" as long as one drive of either size is attached.
>
> I guess the same mod should also work on a CMI IIx. It has one tiny limitation from technical perfection, but in practice, has performed flawlessly in my system.
>
> And... with the CMI II positioned in a "tower" orientation with the floppy drives on the upper end, I left the top (former right) panel unscrewed and placed both 3.5" drives right under that hood. Lifting the panel I can easily change disks - and putting it back in place, apart from the missing noise and blinkenlights off the old drives (and the cessation of my involvement in 8" disk ebay-auctions), you shouldn't notice a difference :-)
>
> I'm wondering if anyone else should be interested in this mod. If so, please send me a message - however, I'm probably busy till mid June and don't check my yahoo account very often, so please allow me some time to respond.
>
> Thank you & cheers, js
>;
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] 3,5" floppy drives on CMI II replacing the 8" drives - done, works

2010-05-24 by Thomas Heckmann

Hi Peter,

I also tried to contact him ages ago in the 90s, but had no luck reaching him.
So I guess he's not doing anything anymore...my Wave 2 has his Midi also installed.
Will do some pics asap.
Best
Thomas
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On May 24, 2010, at 1:04 PM, Peter K. wrote:

> 
> 
> Thanks for the info Thomas.
>  
> The guys name is Dieter Kampfhofer. I'm trying to get in contact with him already and asked for his address on a German forum that mentions his name. If you have his mail, that would be cool.
>  
> As for the pics: Yes please :D
>  
> Regards,
>  
> Peter.
> 
> From: Thomas Heckmann
> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 9:21 AM
> To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Fairlight-CMI] 3,5" floppy drives on CMI II replacing the 8" drives - done, works
> 
> Hi,
> 
> my Fairlight IIx has also 3.5" Floppies installed and you can copy or start from either of them.
> Both ate installed between the 8" drives and it was done by a guy called Kampfhofer, who did 
> some cool mods in the 80s and 90s. He also gave my Jupiter 4 full Midi (sending and receiving all sliders as well !!!) 
> and 128 programs.
> It's nice to have the os starting and running from 3.5" and I copied most of my sound Disks to 3,5"
> for backup and safety. Though I must say that I use the 8" drives from time to time, otherwise
> the hydraulic oil in them get sticky. 
> I will post some pics asap.
> 
> Best
> 
> Thomas
> 
> On May 24, 2010, at 12:16 AM, dkevefnzs wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > this is just to note that I've successfully replaced the 8" drives on the CMI II with 3.5" drives. 8" disks can directly be copied to 3.5" as long as one drive of either size is attached.
> > 
> > I guess the same mod should also work on a CMI IIx. It has one tiny limitation from technical perfection, but in practice, has performed flawlessly in my system.
> > 
> > And... with the CMI II positioned in a "tower" orientation with the floppy drives on the upper end, I left the top (former right) panel unscrewed and placed both 3.5" drives right under that hood. Lifting the panel I can easily change disks - and putting it back in place, apart from the missing noise and blinkenlights off the old drives (and the cessation of my involvement in 8" disk ebay-auctions), you shouldn't notice a difference :-)
> > 
> > I'm wondering if anyone else should be interested in this mod. If so, please send me a message - however, I'm probably busy till mid June and don't check my yahoo account very often, so please allow me some time to respond.
> > 
> > Thank you & cheers, js
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: 3,5" floppies repl 8" drives - re the limitation and what's needed

2010-05-24 by dkevefnzs

Hi all, hi Peter,

Thank you for your feedback. The answer to Peter K's question first:

The spindle motors in the 8" drives rotate all the time, but the read/write heads only snap together towards the floppy disk ("loading the heads") before every read/write access. They are lifted off the medium right thereafter again to reduce wear.

8" drives had a signal input "-head load" to control this; newer drives don't.

They still have a "-motor on" signal - but spinning up takes ~10x longer than loading the heads. After the CMI II tells the drive to get ready ("-head load" now!), it doesn't wait sufficiently long for you to connect that signal to "-motor on" at the drive and hope it would have spun up in time.

I actually tried it - and can confirm that simply using "-motor on" as "-head load" replacement would definitely lead to read or write errors.

So what has to be done, is keep "-motor on" permanently active, and leave everything else to the logic inside the drive.

A given drive may or may not control head loading internally - if yours doesn't, the head may contact the medium all the time, with the spindle motor spinning all the time. (Some drives might evaluate "drive select" etc. to make their internal decisions.)

But actually, multiple people who replaced 8" drives by 5,25" or 3,5" drives (on other computers, for some time) reported no symptoms of floppy wear nor real life reliability problems.

AFAIK, the CMI III QFC9 could have ROMs for either older or newer drives - I guess the newer version knows it's using "-motor on" and therefore has to wait longer, so it can allow the (rarely used anyway) drive to spin down when not in use. It might be possible to find a patch for the II/IIx ROM and also use "-motor on" thereafter, but I haven't spent the time.

That's for the tiny limitation.

--

Now, what the actual solution needs:

- An adaptor that connects the signals from the 50pin controller connector (or cable) to the 34pin floppy drive connector in a proper way. Can be for both drives, what I made, or one drive per adaptor, what Fairlight has made for the CMI III. These are all just cables/signal lines, no other parts, and easily prepared.

- A simple power supply connector for each floppy drive (CAVE: the CMI power supply also provides 125V or 250V for the old drives!). Can be homemade from PC parts, but a Fairlight (?) part exists as well.

- Floppy drives which do/can deliver the "-ready" signal. Finding one (or two) of these may be the difficult exercise. Even sub(!)-model-numbers from renowned makers like TEAC differ as to availability of configuration jumpers, but many drives can be modded to provide the signal even if no jumpers are available.

I just had started to write it up more from memory in this reply... But the story got too long. So please allow me some time and I'll put my background info, photos, list of suitable drives etc. to my WWW in a proper manner.

Cheers, Joerg

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "Peter K." <synthserv@...> wrote:
>
> Just wondering  What is this "one tiny limitation from technical perfection"?

Re: 3,5" floppy drives on CMI II replacing the 8" drives - done, works

2010-05-25 by dd_62622

I was hesitant to buy "new" 8"drives for the risk of them getting knocked out of alignment or damaged during schipment.

I hope we all can share the fruits of your labour soon.
This could very well be a historic moment for all series II(X) users : )

Thanks a million,
David


--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "dkevefnzs" <dkevefnzs@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi all,
> 
> this is just to note that I've successfully replaced the 8" drives on the CMI II with 3.5" drives. 8" disks can directly be copied to 3.5" as long as one drive of either size is attached.
> 
> I guess the same mod should also work on a CMI IIx. It has one tiny limitation from technical perfection, but in practice, has performed flawlessly in my system.
> 
> And... with the CMI II positioned in a "tower" orientation with the floppy drives on the upper end, I left the top (former right) panel unscrewed and placed both 3.5" drives right under that hood. Lifting the panel I can easily change disks - and putting it back in place, apart from the missing noise and blinkenlights off the old drives (and the cessation of my involvement in 8" disk ebay-auctions), you shouldn't notice a difference :-)
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone else should be interested in this mod. If so, please send me a message - however, I'm probably busy till mid June and don't check my yahoo account very often, so please allow me some time to respond.
> 
> Thank you & cheers, js
>

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] Fairlight CMI IIx with 3.5" Floppies

2010-05-25 by WT

and a bunch of lovely PPG´s !

WT

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Thomas Heckmann" <troperecordings@t-online.de>
To: <Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:16 PM
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Fairlight CMI IIx with 3.5" Floppies


> Hi Guys,
>
> I just uploaded some pics of my Fairlight CMI IIx.
> Enjoy :-)
>
> Thomas
>
>

Re: On 3,5" floppy drives on CMI II & CMI II restoration log revised

2010-07-30 by dkevefnzs

Hallihallo all,

My CMI II restauration adventure log has just received some photos, sound snippets, and - finally - a section on the 3.5" floppy drives.

Sorry there's (still) no detailed photo of the 50-pin <-> 34-pin adapters, and it's a collection of information rather than a structured recipe right now. I may improve that as soon as I can.

But if you like folklore, I'd be happy if you already had a look:

http://www.jsigle.com/prog/cmi/indexe.htm

Your feedback is very welcome of course!

Enjoy; Joerg

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "dkevefnzs" <dkevefnzs@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi all,
> 
> this is just to note that I've successfully replaced the 8" drives on the CMI II with 3.5" drives. 8" disks can directly be copied to 3.5" as long as one drive of either size is attached.
> [...]

Re: On 3,5" floppy drives on CMI II & CMI II restoration log revised

2010-08-04 by horiprod

Hello Joerg.

First of all, congratulations on a really brilliant article and extremely helpful pictures... I'm restoring a series II myself (I normally work on IIXs and IIIs), and look forward to digesting the whole piece in time...

You mentioned fixing up an analogue interface in the future.. I'm doing exactly the same here, and I'll happily share any information I have. 

Regarding the Syco conductor card: My understanding of it was it derived from the II various clocks and sync signals to enable it to drive drum machines and sequencers of the time... Remember this was pre MIDI !!!!  

Keep up the good work,

Regards,

Peter Wielk

Horizontal Productions in sunny Sydney








 

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "dkevefnzs" <dkevefnzs@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hallihallo all,
> 
> My CMI II restauration adventure log has just received some photos, sound snippets, and - finally - a section on the 3.5" floppy drives.
> 
> Sorry there's (still) no detailed photo of the 50-pin <-> 34-pin adapters, and it's a collection of information rather than a structured recipe right now. I may improve that as soon as I can.
> 
> But if you like folklore, I'd be happy if you already had a look:
> 
> http://www.jsigle.com/prog/cmi/indexe.htm
> 
> Your feedback is very welcome of course!
> 
> Enjoy; Joerg
> 
> --- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "dkevefnzs" <dkevefnzs@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > this is just to note that I've successfully replaced the 8" drives on the CMI II with 3.5" drives. 8" disks can directly be copied to 3.5" as long as one drive of either size is attached.
> > [...]
>

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: On 3,5" floppy drives on CMI II & CMI II restoration log revised

2010-08-04 by Peter Connelly

Hi All,
What an amazing article. I wish I had the expertise and patience to take on such a project... maybe one day I will. I have updated my yahoogroups email address to send mails to my regular address (this one), so hopefully I will be more active on these Forums.
Best wishes,
Peter

Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 12:42 PM, horiprod <horizontal_productions@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hello Joerg.

First of all, congratulations on a really brilliant article and extremely helpful pictures... I'm restoring a series II myself (I normally work on IIXs and IIIs), and look forward to digesting the whole piece in time...

You mentioned fixing up an analogue interface in the future.. I'm doing exactly the same here, and I'll happily share any information I have.

Regarding the Syco conductor card: My understanding of it was it derived from the II various clocks and sync signals to enable it to drive drum machines and sequencers of the time... Remember this was pre MIDI !!!!

Keep up the good work,

Regards,

Peter Wielk

Horizontal Productions in sunny Sydney

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "dkevefnzs" wrote:
>
> Hallihallo all,
>
> My CMI II restauration adventure log has just received some photos, sound snippets, and - finally - a section on the 3.5" floppy drives.
>
> Sorry there's (still) no detailed photo of the 50-pin <-> 34-pin adapters, and it';s a collection of information rather than a structured recipe right now. I may improve that as soon as I can.
>
> But if you like folklore, I'd be happy if you already had a look:
>
> http://www.jsigle.com/prog/cmi/indexe.htm
>;
> Your feedback is very welcome of course!
>
> Enjoy; Joerg
>
> --- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "dkevefnzs" wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > this is just to note that I've successfully replaced the 8" drives on the CMI II with 3.5" drives. 8" disks can directly be copied to 3.5" as long as one drive of either size is attached.
> > [...]
>




--
Peter Connelly, Director
Universal Sound Design Ltd
www.universal-sound-design.com

Re: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: On 3,5" floppy drives on CMI II & CMI II restoration log revised

2010-08-10 by WT

Joerg,

thanks for the extensive documentation of your journey into the CMI II.

I´ve read through most of it and have a feeling that converting the 8" 
drives to 3,5" shouldn´t be that hard if you have some experience in 
electronics and soldering.

WT

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dkevefnzs" <dkevefnzs@yahoo.com>
To: <Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: On 3,5" floppy drives on CMI II & CMI II 
restoration log revised


Hallihallo all,

My CMI II restauration adventure log has just received some photos, sound 
snippets, and - finally - a section on the 3.5" floppy drives.

Sorry there's (still) no detailed photo of the 50-pin <-> 34-pin adapters, 
and it's a collection of information rather than a structured recipe right 
now. I may improve that as soon as I can.

But if you like folklore, I'd be happy if you already had a look:

http://www.jsigle.com/prog/cmi/indexe.htm

Your feedback is very welcome of course!

Enjoy; Joerg

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "dkevefnzs" <dkevefnzs@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi all,
>
> this is just to note that I've successfully replaced the 8" drives on the 
> CMI II with 3.5" drives. 8" disks can directly be copied to 3.5" as long 
> as one drive of either size is attached.
> [...]

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