Doepfer

Hi Andreas and welcome.

This list has been getting better and more active over the last 6-8 months and some of the guys have a good working relationship with Dieter so he gets to hear and comments on our grumbles & ideas.

Regards

David


                                                                                                                          
                    Andreas Lindholm                                                                                      
                    <andreas.k.lindholm@       To:      doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com                                      
                    telia.com>                 cc:                                                                        

                                                Subject:     [Doepfer_a100] Another joins your group!                     
                    19/02/2002 20:33            Header:      Internal Use Only                                            
                    Please respond to                                                                                     
                    Doepfer_a100                                                                                          
                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                          



Me, that is 28 year old and "collector" of interesting synths. I do try to
make some kind of music too, but I am realistic... I will never hit the
charts. Still it is a fun hobby, but perhaps it is as Kraftwerk once stated
"it's more fun to compute".

I have a custom 6u cabinet that includes standard Lfo, highend LFO, the
vocoder(not unvoiced-s module), oberheim lowpass and of course the fabulous
136 module. Anybody into soundshaping should have that one! What I miss is a
MIDI-CV converter module. I do have a regelwerk, but for strange reasons it
can't be used as a midi-cv converter. If anybody has a hack for it to do
that please tell me.

Any more swedes here on the list btw?

/Andreas for Sweden



                                                    
               Yahoo! Groups Sponsor                
                                                    
                                                    
                                                    
                   ADVERTISEMENT                    
                                                    
                                                    
                                                    
                                                    
                                                    



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.





------------------------------------------------------------- ---
        Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com

Any views expressed in this message are those of  the  individual
sender,  except  where  the sender specifically states them to be
the views of Reuters Ltd.

It is great that a manufacturer listens and responds to users as good as
Doepfer does. Always liked that.

Bear with me here come another piece about the regelwerk.

What saddens me is when I hear from people that a thing like the
regelwerk(which is slightly off topic here) really could be modified to
allow changing of patterns to create simple song, but that this is not done
simply in order not to compete with shaltwerk. I know that this feature is
something that convinces a lot of potential customers not to buy the
regelwerk and neither buy shaltwerk cause it is cumbersome, doesn't do the
sysex-jobs and costs too much... About the facility to act as a midi-cv
converter I haven't hear much, but it would be nice to know if and what the
cost would been to include that feature.

----- Original Message -----
From: <david.salter@reuters.com>
To: <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Another joins your group!


>
> Hi Andreas and welcome.
>
> This list has been getting better and more active over the last 6-8 months
and some of the guys have a good working relationship with Dieter so he gets
to hear and comments on our grumbles & ideas.

>
> Regards
>

Hi Andreas 

>  It is great that a manufacturer listens and responds to users as good > as Doepfer does. Always liked that.
Sorry to say, but Dieter does not whatch the list all the time, and he
cannot answer individual mails from the list, since he would have then not
time to develope his gear...

> allow changing of patterns to create simple song, 
> [...]  neither buy shaltwerk cause it is cumbersome,
I don't know the Regelwerk, but the Schaltwerk can do songs.

> doesn't do the sysex-jobs 
What do you want to have the Schaltwerk do SysEx? I don't see any need of
this.

Florian
-- 
Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 München
email: florian.anwander@consol.de |http://www.consol.de

From: "Florian Anwander" <Florian.Anwander@consol.de>

> Sorry to say, but Dieter does not whatch the list all the time, and he
> cannot answer individual mails from the list, since he would have then not
> time to develope his gear...

Of course he doesn't, but that just makes it more impressive that I have
gotten a few answers myself when I have dropped a mail. I think it is great.
Only Kurzweil and Waldorf keeps up with that kind of service.

>
> > allow changing of patterns to create simple song,
> > [...]  neither buy shaltwerk cause it is cumbersome,
> I don't know the Regelwerk, but the Schaltwerk can do songs.

So do I know, but that was not my point. Shaltwerk is very much more
expensive and doesn't work in the same way as regelwerk. Really how much
more would it take to allow the regelwerk to switch from pattern 1 to
pattern 2 to pattern 3 etc... perhaps a little ram and a software change. I
for one would gladly pay a few euros to have that upgraded. It won't make it
a sequencer, but far more useful. Especially if I could figure out a way to
have it start and stop the seqencer from an external midi note on/off...


>
> > doesn't do the sysex-jobs
> What do you want to have the Schaltwerk do SysEx? I don't see any need of
> this.

No I don't want shaltwerk to do that.I want regelwerk to do that AND be able
to switch patterns and why not act as a MIDI-Cv on one or a few of the
cv-outs. I just state the fact that the regelwerk is good, but small flaws
keeps it from beeing the monster machine it really should be and if the idea
is buy a regelwerk AND a shaltwerk then I think it is wrong cause then
probably most users will buy pocket-dial and MAQ instead. Lots cheaper and
not that much less capable.

Something that costs 800euros really should have quite something more than
the competition, and it doesn't so it has been a bit of a disappointment for
me. The A100 on the other hand has not.

> allow changing of patterns to create simple song,

I understand why Doepfer doesn't want the Regelwerk to compete with 
the Schaltwerk, but a simple solution would be to offer an "upgrade" 
ROM for the Regelwerk, at additional cost, that would provide pattern 
chains or songs, forward backward and pendulum modes, and all the 
other features that have been artificially removed from the Regelwerk.

Of course, its possible to create simple pattern chains by combining 
the Regelwerk with A100 modules such as the A150 switch. I frequently 
do this to create 48-note "AABA" patterns and such, using the 
resulting CV/Gate signal to control an A100 voice, or the Spectral 
Audio Neptune.

Still, I picked the Regelwerk over the Schaltwerk in order to have an 
integrated step sequencing/soundshaping environment, and I find it 
more than a little annoying that features that I need have been 
artificially removed from the Regelwerk.

Joe

--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote:

hi joe, re-read the posts concerning the schaltwerk on the doepfer ez board forum. the regelwerk used some of the 
same boards as the schaltwerk. i own both of them. i find that when it comes to any Doepfer cpu controlled device, 
they are always short on memory, functions and other logic. i am really disappointed with the schaltwerk. 
there all kinds of bugs and shortcomings that should of been dealt with not now but 2 years ago. it's a shame that
 non of these  devices had the proper software revisions they deserve. i hear that every cpu and memory is maxed
 out, hence the reason they can not upgrade the software or add more functions. they build the shell of  their 
sequencers like a Mercedes but under power them like a 70's Volkswagen beetle. function definetely does not
 follow its form when it comes to the schaltwerk and the regelwerk.  i hate to sound harsh, but it is really sad when
 you have the units and start working with them, only to find out how under powered they really are. many others 
and i, have voiced our opinions and suggestions to better these products. ZIP, NADA AND NOTHING has been
 done about it for over a year. i guess they really care  about their products. everbody(reveiwers and customers) 
chewed out Waldorf, when they released the Q. well it's been 3 years and they upgraded their software so that 
the product functions properly. why Doepfer can't follow through, i have no idea. i have every filter doepfer has
released for my A100.  ask me if i care about the A108 filter? ask me if i care about rotary potentiometers or
 sliders the pocket control?

THE ANSWER IS NO AND I MEAN NO .
 
start by fixing the products that others and i have paid for, so that they can function the way they should of been 
right from the start. i don't care  about a 48db slope filter, when i can achieve the same result by putting a few filters
in series and have different control which you won't have in the proposed model. i have actually put off buying more
 A100 modules due the fact that nothing is happening with the software. i feel used and abused. i am now thinking  
about other systems and sequencers.

Mr. Doepfer PLEASE RE-READ THE POSTS ON THE REGELWERK AND SCHALTWERK ON THE DOEPFER EZ BOARD
AND RECTIFY THE SITUATION. I AM BEGGING NOW, PLEASE FINISH THEM SO I CAN GO ON MAKING MUSIC WITH
THESE MACHINES AND MY 12U A100 SYSTEM. I DON'T THINK THAT I AM OUT OF LINE ASKING FOR THESE
REQUESTS HAVING INVESTED THE AMOUNT OF MONEY I HAVE IN THEM. THANKS FOR READING AND
I HOPE THIS  DOES NOT FALL ON DEAF EARS.
 
RM

P.S. Bakkis i really appreciate the work you have done with this board for the Doepfer community. Kudos to you,
 my friend. now one small favor, please foward this post to Mr. Doepfer, so it can make a difference. thanks again

> > allow changing of patterns to create simple song,
> 
> I understand why Doepfer doesn't want the Regelwerk to compete with 
> the Schaltwerk, but a simple solution would be to offer an "upgrade" 
> ROM for the Regelwerk, at additional cost, that would provide pattern 
> chains or songs, forward backward and pendulum modes, and all the 
> other features that have been artificially removed from the Regelwerk.
> 
> Of course, its possible to create simple pattern chains by combining 
> the Regelwerk with A100 modules such as the A150 switch. I frequently 
> do this to create 48-note "AABA" patterns and such, using the 
> resulting CV/Gate signal to control an A100 voice, or the Spectral 
> Audio Neptune.
> 
> Still, I picked the Regelwerk over the Schaltwerk in order to have an 
> integrated step sequencing/soundshaping environment, and I find it 
> more than a little annoying that features that I need have been 
> artificially removed from the Regelwerk.
> 
> Joe

Hi RM

first of all: please sign with a real name. This is a requirement in the
usenet and should be good taste in a forum like this too. (Btw: If I would
be D. Döpfer, I would not care for a post of someone, who does not stand
for his name. But I don't speak for Doepfer).

So now to the topic: I am one of the first Schaltwerk users and Betatester
(mine is that old, that is has no CV interface). Chris Assall (the software
engineer at Doepfer) received a four pages of bugreport for the Schaltwerk.
We talked a five hours about it. The result was: the processor is on the
end of his power. So this is the truth as you stated.



The following is  MY PERSONAL OPINION - nothing I know from Doepfer.

The Schaltwerk was assumingly an economic disaster: Originally developped
as an addition to the MAQ for Kraftwerk (and with a lot less features),
they decided to make a complete product out of it. Then there were a lot of
unnexpected problems (hardware and software). The developement time
exceeded any reasonable amount. So they had to make it quite expensive.
This caused, that sales did not run.
They tried to get some value return, by creating the Regelwerk (which we
can describe as the original idea: combination of Schaltwerk and MAQ). 
It sold better and did not cost that much, since half of the development
was done already for the Schaltwerk. So it had a little better, but not
very good cash return.

So they had to invest energy, time and money into products, which give
better sales. And they had to do this immediately, since the sales from
other products (Keyboards, MS404, basic A100) had reached their max count
of possible sales. So they developped lowbudget versions of a faderbox.
This took all their manpower.

For such a small enterprise like Doepfer an unsuccessful product like the
Schaltwerk can be a killer problem. This would cause nine people becoming
unemployed. So I can accept that they invest in better selling products
instead of bugfixing of older products, which do not return any buck.

So far these are my private theories.



In fact I know that the bugfixes are still on the to do list at Doepfer.
Chris Assall called me last year, whether I had further complaints. So I
know it is deferred, but not kicked out.


Florian

-- 
Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 München
email: florian.anwander@consol.de |http://www.consol.de

First of all if anybody don't want to read any more about regelwerk here in
this forum just write a mail and this will be my last about that topic here.
Otherwise I take it as you are keen on knowing what is the matter ;)

It's a good and thorough explanation about the story "behind the scenes" at
doepfer from Florian Anwander. I suppose I have long figured out that
something like this was the case, but no the less I have to disagree
slightly with the approach and also plea for a future upgrade.

I know that Dieter once replied to me that an upgrade would be costly and
that probably none would pay for it. I also believe that I wrote that I
would pay a reasonable price for such an upgrade. With reasonable I mean
price for new parts and work to have it installed. As for further research
work to find the solution I think we have paid for it buy paying the
overprice we had for units that didn't quite live up to what we expected
from them.

Further more I think that not fixing things like theese drags the name of
the firm down as "not reliable" which in it self reflects the sales. After
discovering these things I have myself tried to sell the unit. I have had
around ten serious inquiries from people wanting to buy it, but every single
one has either turned away as I had declared that patterns can't be chained
and it doesn't act as a MIDI-CV. If these things were indeed present in the
unit I have no doubt I would have gotten half the suggested retail price
that I consider fair for a mint condition unit. Considering this I can
understand why sales are slow, people know these flaw and are willing to pay
around 200-300 pounds for it as it is now. So these things are not only
important to us owners but perhaps even more so to potential customers.

I don't know if it is good or bad that others have had the same experiences
with shaltwerk, but it is nice to know that I am not the only one who has
been pushing for this and as one statistic said at work for every mail
recieved in complaint there is always many more that just didn't dare to
write theirs.

Finally I think it is bad marketing strategy to release another flawed unit
to make up for a previous flop... it just adds to the disreputation. Follow
the example of kurzweil and Waldorf that rectifies their errors and
maintains a good name and good sales.

signed in full as usual
/Andreas

PS! Bakis please do add the full email to the others. I would like to
discuss this further with other users of regelwerk and shaltwerk.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Florian Anwander" <Florian.Anwander@consol.de>
To: <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Schaltwerk


> Hi RM
>
> first of all: please sign with a real name. This is a requirement in the
> usenet and should be good taste in a forum like this too. (Btw: If I would
> be D. Döpfer, I would not care for a post of someone, who does not stand
> for his name. But I don't speak for Doepfer).
>
> So now to the topic: I am one of the first Schaltwerk users and Betatester
> (mine is that old, that is has no CV interface). Chris Assall (the
software
> engineer at Doepfer) received a four pages of bugreport for the
Schaltwerk.
> We talked a five hours about it. The result was: the processor is on the
> end of his power. So this is the truth as you stated.
>
>
>
> The following is  MY PERSONAL OPINION - nothing I know from Doepfer.
>
> The Schaltwerk was assumingly an economic disaster: Originally developped
> as an addition to the MAQ for Kraftwerk (and with a lot less features),
> they decided to make a complete product out of it. Then there were a lot
of

> unnexpected problems (hardware and software). The developement time
> exceeded any reasonable amount. So they had to make it quite expensive.
> This caused, that sales did not run.
> They tried to get some value return, by creating the Regelwerk (which we
> can describe as the original idea: combination of Schaltwerk and MAQ).
> It sold better and did not cost that much, since half of the development
> was done already for the Schaltwerk. So it had a little better, but not
> very good cash return.
>
> So they had to invest energy, time and money into products, which give
> better sales. And they had to do this immediately, since the sales from
> other products (Keyboards, MS404, basic A100) had reached their max count
> of possible sales. So they developped lowbudget versions of a faderbox.
> This took all their manpower.
>
> For such a small enterprise like Doepfer an unsuccessful product like the
> Schaltwerk can be a killer problem. This would cause nine people becoming
> unemployed. So I can accept that they invest in better selling products
> instead of bugfixing of older products, which do not return any buck.
>
> So far these are my private theories.
>
>
>
> In fact I know that the bugfixes are still on the to do list at Doepfer.
> Chris Assall called me last year, whether I had further complaints. So I
> know it is deferred, but not kicked out.
>
>
> Florian
>
> --
> Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
> Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
> Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 München
> email: florian.anwander@consol.de |http://www.consol.de
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., Florian Anwander <Florian.Anwander@c...> 
wrote:
> Hi RM
> 
> first of all: please sign with a real name. This is a requirement 
in the
> usenet and should be good taste in a forum like this too. (Btw: If 
I would
> be D. Döpfer, I would not care for a post of someone, who does not 
stand
> for his name. But I don't speak for Doepfer).


hi florian, i do not mean or want to disrespect you or the members of 
this group. i wish to keep my identity private and personal. if mr. 
Doepfer wishes to contact personally, i would be glad to do so. the 
reason mr. Doepfer should take me very seriously is the simple fact 
that i have well over $10,000 USD invested in his equipment.

24U of A100 modules (2 portables including a full spec. vocoder and 2 
6U rack units), MAQ 16/3, Regelwerk, Schaltwerk and a Drehbabank.

i would say that me puts me in the top tier of users out there. 
Second, this also means i am firm supporter the Doepfer company, not 
a newbie who just purchased his first synth and midi sequencer with 
cv and gates.

i have been evangelizing Doepfer products since i first discovered 
them. i have helped bring at least $7000 USD of business to his 
company, simply by letting other people having a go with my gear.

to give you an example, 10 days ago a few friends of mine got 
together to socialize at my place( i.e. have a few beers and listen 
to music). one of them had never seen my studio before. we are all 
people who make music using both hardware and software. when he 
walked in, the first thing he noticed was the MAQ. he said he 
previously owned one, but was disappointed with the unit. my friend 
has a sick modular that makes mine look like an SH_101 in comparison. 
he asked how i liked it. i said great. i turned on the MAQ. i pressed 
play and he noticed the PA4 in the event field. he said i have never 
seen or used it in that mode. why? the manual is not clear, plus the 
fact that you can't access it when the MAQ is in run mode and if you 
turn the dial to go to the PA and PR fields in the MAQ ,from NA1 
let's say. once you start turning the dial in run mode to GO to the 
PA and PR fields, when you reach the T32 field it throws the sync of 
the channel right off then it speeds up and slows down for a few 
notes. IS THIS A FLAW OR BUG? i don't know, you tell me. sure seems 
like a bug. the only way to access the PA and PR fields is when the 
MAQ is in stop mode, then you turn the dial all the way to the end to 
get the PA and PR fields. the golden question is why are the PA and 
PR fields at the back of the event field? shouldn't they be right 
after the NA and NR fields,so you don't throw the sync between the 3 
channels out. Everybody i talked to has never used the MAQ this way. 
my assumption from the few people i have met that have used the MAQ, 
is that the majority of MAQ owners would only be using the MAQ in the 
NA and NR modes and constantly triggering 16th notes. 

 it would be nice, Bakkis for you to create a poll to see how many 
members have an MAQ 16/3 and use the MAQ in the NA and NR fields only 
or use the NA,NR and PA,PR fields. and also to see if other members 
have the flaw or bug i reported above.

then my friend complained about sync and timing. i showed him how 
tight the MAQ is.  i slaved the MAQ to the TR-909 and used the MAQ to 
trigger my Kawai XD-5  and vice versa. the result was he couldn't 
find any difference, it was smack on. i have never tried to measure 
them in logic. 

to conclude this segment. my friend is thinking of purchasing the MAQ 
again. DID I SHOW HIM MY SCHALTWERK? THE ANSWER IS NO.  i am too 
embarrassed to say i even own one.


> 
> So now to the topic: I am one of the first Schaltwerk users and 
Betatester
> (mine is that old, that is has no CV interface). Chris Assall (the 
software
> engineer at Doepfer) received a four pages of bugreport for the 
Schaltwerk.
> We talked a five hours about it. The result was: the processor is 
on the
> end of his power. So this is the truth as you stated.
> 
> 
> 
> The following is  MY PERSONAL OPINION - nothing I know from Doepfer.
> 
> The Schaltwerk was assumingly an economic disaster: Originally 
developped
> as an addition to the MAQ for Kraftwerk (and with a lot less 
features),
> they decided to make a complete product out of it. Then there were 
a lot of
> unnexpected problems (hardware and software). 

why bother to develop and release a product if major problems arise. 
most companies do R & D  on future products. if they can't make a 
vaible product or find a suitable market and price point, they simply 
don't release them. you do not see a company release a poor product 
to try and recoup their R&D because they failed to execute it 
properly. 


>The developement time
> exceeded any reasonable amount. So they had to make it quite 
expensive.
> This caused, that sales did not run.

the sales did not run because they were trying to sell apples in a 
golden basket. look at the Future Retro Mobius. There are 256 
recordable patterns available. Each recording note duration, pitch, 
accent , glide, loop point, and time signature. Pattern editing 
features include copy/paste, pattern shifting, pattern transposing, 
multiple pattern cueing, and LED chase. Pattern editing and recording 
can be done while the sequencer is running, and it will automatically 
save all your edits so you don't have to stop creating!

people this unit sells for $325 usd. if they can manufacture the 
entire unit for that price, you mean to tell me that Doepfer can not 
produce a new cpu, memory and software upgrade to include some of the 
above functions and all the ones mentioned in the Doepfer EZ board 
forum for $150 to $200 usd. i don't buy it for a moment. they have 
admitted defeat and shafted all the schaltwerk owners out there, my 
self included. i am sure that all the schaltwerk owners would gladly 
pay that sum to salvage their machines instead selling them for less 
than half of what they originally paid for them and actually start 
using them for creative uses, intead of sending only 16th notes.



> They tried to get some value return, by creating the Regelwerk 
(which we
> can describe as the original idea: combination of Schaltwerk and 
MAQ). 

tell me why the regelwerk is short on memory, CPU power and 
functions.this is were they should have picked up the pieces and run 
with it.no siree. they could have built a new cpu logic PCB with more 
memory and a better OS . they could have built one board to do both 
the schaltwerk and the regelwerk and have written code for each 
machine separately to accomadate their respective hardware surfaces 
and functions. again no, they chose to limit them.


> It sold better and did not cost that much, since half of the 
development
> was done already for the Schaltwerk. So it had a little better, but 
not
> very good cash return.
> 
> So they had to invest energy, time and money into products, which 
give
> better sales. 

right, we failed and you bite the bullet. we will ignore you in the 
meantime,then dangle the software revision carrot to pacify you.but 
hey you can buy the new and improved version with BLUE LEDS.the 
bullshit has to STOP. fix it and watch people buy them and be happy 
they purchased one in the first place.


And they had to do this immediately, since the sales from
> other products (Keyboards, MS404, basic A100) had reached their max 
count
> of possible sales. So they developped lowbudget versions of a 
faderbox.
> This took all their manpower. 

manpower that was misspent in my mind. there are 4 versions of the 
product, plus one with blue leds. what's so hard about having a 
version 2 of the schaltwerk. there is a version 3 of the MAQ 16/3 
which users of version 1 had to pay for a board replacement for the 
upgrade to version 3. when i saw Kraftwerk live in '97, they were not 
using black face version 1 MAQ's on stage. i would bet the bank they 
would love to have their schaltwerk upgraded to a version 2 that can
tie and slide notes. remember they tied and slid notes with Roland 
MC4B's before Doepfer made any products.

> 
> For such a small enterprise like Doepfer an unsuccessful product 
like the
> Schaltwerk can be a killer problem. 

they can remedy the situation and the problem will go away.the 
benefit will be a happy customer base that evanglize their products  
which will then generate more sales. more sales means they recuop 
thew losses from their inherit miscaculation from the start.


This would cause nine people becoming
> unemployed. 

Future Retro are basically two people who run the show. they do 
upgrade their products,when needed. i don't see any notices of them 
going unemployed.

>So I can accept that they invest in better selling products
> instead of bugfixing of older products, which do not return any 
buck.

they did it with the MAQ 16/3, why not with the schaltwerk. i don't 
see a notice of Doepfer discontinuing the MAQ 16/3 any time soon. 
seems it served Doepfer well to uprade the MAQ 16/3



> 
> So far these are my private theories.

Florian, i respect what have you written. the above replies and 
opinions, are how strong i feel toward the Schaltwerk. i feel sad 
that the machine has not reached its full potential, which it truly 
deserves. something should been done immediately. plus ,why do all of 
their sequencers trigger only 16th notes? i did not spend two hours 
of my life writing this post top slag Doepfer. i wrote it to some how 
inspire them to fulfill the schaltwerk's due course.

Regards,
RM


> 
> 
> In fact I know that the bugfixes are still on the to do list at 
Doepfer.
> Chris Assall called me last year, whether I had further complaints. 
So I
> know it is deferred, but not kicked out.
> 
> 
> Florian
> 
> -- 
> Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
> Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software 
GmbH
> Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 
München
> email: florian.anwander@c... |http://www.consol.de

I agree with just about everything our mysterious anonymous guest writes,
what puzzles me is this anonymity biz, but thats he's thing. For my own part
I do feel a bit embarrassed to been conned into buying the Regelwerk, but
not much enough to make me hide my name ;)

 After reading the sales line "and also functions as a simple step sequencer
usiong the 8 cv outs..." I thought "ok, an 8 track step sequencer is just
what i need and even though expensive it is worth it". I should have read
the by that date only in german manual first and discovered the fixed notes
lenght and no pattern chaining. Then of course I would have bought something
else or perhaps just a big midi-cv converter.

I stayed clear of the shaltwerk simply cause I thought it was way overpriced
when I did get a demo of it.

Also a thanx to our mystery guest for the tip to Future Retro, the mobius
seems just like what i should have bought in the first place. But does it
only have one cv out? Single track seems a little limited to me.

What midi-cv or cv-seqencing solutions do you guys you by the way? A poll
perhaps?

/Andreas Lindholm



----- Original Message -----

From: "ringmod45" <ringmod45@yahoo.com>
To: <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 5:31 PM
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Schaltwerk


> --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., Florian Anwander <Florian.Anwander@c...>
> wrote:
> > Hi RM
> >
> > first of all: please sign with a real name. This is a requirement
> in the
> > usenet and should be good taste in a forum like this too. (Btw: If
> I would
> > be D. Döpfer, I would not care for a post of someone, who does not
> stand
> > for his name. But I don't speak for Doepfer).
>
>
> hi florian, i do not mean or want to disrespect you or the members of
> this group. i wish to keep my identity private and personal. if mr.
> Doepfer wishes to contact personally, i would be glad to do so. the
> reason mr. Doepfer should take me very seriously is the simple fact
> that i have well over $10,000 USD invested in his equipment.
>
> 24U of A100 modules (2 portables including a full spec. vocoder and 2
> 6U rack units), MAQ 16/3, Regelwerk, Schaltwerk and a Drehbabank.
>
> i would say that me puts me in the top tier of users out there.
> Second, this also means i am firm supporter the Doepfer company, not
> a newbie who just purchased his first synth and midi sequencer with
> cv and gates.
>
> i have been evangelizing Doepfer products since i first discovered
> them. i have helped bring at least $7000 USD of business to his
> company, simply by letting other people having a go with my gear.
>
> to give you an example, 10 days ago a few friends of mine got
> together to socialize at my place( i.e. have a few beers and listen
> to music). one of them had never seen my studio before. we are all
> people who make music using both hardware and software. when he
> walked in, the first thing he noticed was the MAQ. he said he
> previously owned one, but was disappointed with the unit. my friend
> has a sick modular that makes mine look like an SH_101 in comparison.
> he asked how i liked it. i said great. i turned on the MAQ. i pressed
> play and he noticed the PA4 in the event field. he said i have never
> seen or used it in that mode. why? the manual is not clear, plus the
> fact that you can't access it when the MAQ is in run mode and if you
> turn the dial to go to the PA and PR fields in the MAQ ,from NA1
> let's say. once you start turning the dial in run mode to GO to the
> PA and PR fields, when you reach the T32 field it throws the sync of
> the channel right off then it speeds up and slows down for a few
> notes. IS THIS A FLAW OR BUG? i don't know, you tell me. sure seems
> like a bug. the only way to access the PA and PR fields is when the
> MAQ is in stop mode, then you turn the dial all the way to the end to
> get the PA and PR fields. the golden question is why are the PA and
> PR fields at the back of the event field? shouldn't they be right
> after the NA and NR fields,so you don't throw the sync between the 3
> channels out. Everybody i talked to has never used the MAQ this way.
> my assumption from the few people i have met that have used the MAQ,
> is that the majority of MAQ owners would only be using the MAQ in the
> NA and NR modes and constantly triggering 16th notes.
>
>  it would be nice, Bakkis for you to create a poll to see how many
> members have an MAQ 16/3 and use the MAQ in the NA and NR fields only
> or use the NA,NR and PA,PR fields. and also to see if other members
> have the flaw or bug i reported above.
>
> then my friend complained about sync and timing. i showed him how
> tight the MAQ is.  i slaved the MAQ to the TR-909 and used the MAQ to
> trigger my Kawai XD-5  and vice versa. the result was he couldn't
> find any difference, it was smack on. i have never tried to measure
> them in logic.
>
> to conclude this segment. my friend is thinking of purchasing the MAQ
> again. DID I SHOW HIM MY SCHALTWERK? THE ANSWER IS NO.  i am too
> embarrassed to say i even own one.
>
>
> >
> > So now to the topic: I am one of the first Schaltwerk users and
> Betatester
> > (mine is that old, that is has no CV interface). Chris Assall (the
> software
> > engineer at Doepfer) received a four pages of bugreport for the
> Schaltwerk.
> > We talked a five hours about it. The result was: the processor is
> on the
> > end of his power. So this is the truth as you stated.
> >
> >
> >
> > The following is  MY PERSONAL OPINION - nothing I know from Doepfer.
> >
> > The Schaltwerk was assumingly an economic disaster: Originally
> developped
> > as an addition to the MAQ for Kraftwerk (and with a lot less
> features),
> > they decided to make a complete product out of it. Then there were
> a lot of
> > unnexpected problems (hardware and software).
>
> why bother to develop and release a product if major problems arise.
> most companies do R & D  on future products. if they can't make a
> vaible product or find a suitable market and price point, they simply
> don't release them. you do not see a company release a poor product
> to try and recoup their R&D because they failed to execute it
> properly.
>
>
> >The developement time
> > exceeded any reasonable amount. So they had to make it quite
> expensive.
> > This caused, that sales did not run.
>
> the sales did not run because they were trying to sell apples in a
> golden basket. look at the Future Retro Mobius. There are 256
> recordable patterns available. Each recording note duration, pitch,
> accent , glide, loop point, and time signature. Pattern editing
> features include copy/paste, pattern shifting, pattern transposing,
> multiple pattern cueing, and LED chase. Pattern editing and recording
> can be done while the sequencer is running, and it will automatically
> save all your edits so you don't have to stop creating!
>
> people this unit sells for $325 usd. if they can manufacture the
> entire unit for that price, you mean to tell me that Doepfer can not
> produce a new cpu, memory and software upgrade to include some of the
> above functions and all the ones mentioned in the Doepfer EZ board
> forum for $150 to $200 usd. i don't buy it for a moment. they have
> admitted defeat and shafted all the schaltwerk owners out there, my
> self included. i am sure that all the schaltwerk owners would gladly
> pay that sum to salvage their machines instead selling them for less
> than half of what they originally paid for them and actually start
> using them for creative uses, intead of sending only 16th notes.
>
>
>
> > They tried to get some value return, by creating the Regelwerk
> (which we
> > can describe as the original idea: combination of Schaltwerk and
> MAQ).
>
> tell me why the regelwerk is short on memory, CPU power and
> functions.this is were they should have picked up the pieces and run
> with it.no siree. they could have built a new cpu logic PCB with more
> memory and a better OS . they could have built one board to do both
> the schaltwerk and the regelwerk and have written code for each
> machine separately to accomadate their respective hardware surfaces
> and functions. again no, they chose to limit them.
>
>
> > It sold better and did not cost that much, since half of the
> development
> > was done already for the Schaltwerk. So it had a little better, but
> not
> > very good cash return.
> >
> > So they had to invest energy, time and money into products, which
> give
> > better sales.
>
> right, we failed and you bite the bullet. we will ignore you in the
> meantime,then dangle the software revision carrot to pacify you.but
> hey you can buy the new and improved version with BLUE LEDS.the
> bullshit has to STOP. fix it and watch people buy them and be happy
> they purchased one in the first place.
>
>
> And they had to do this immediately, since the sales from
> > other products (Keyboards, MS404, basic A100) had reached their max
> count
> > of possible sales. So they developped lowbudget versions of a
> faderbox.
> > This took all their manpower.
>
> manpower that was misspent in my mind. there are 4 versions of the
> product, plus one with blue leds. what's so hard about having a
> version 2 of the schaltwerk. there is a version 3 of the MAQ 16/3
> which users of version 1 had to pay for a board replacement for the
> upgrade to version 3. when i saw Kraftwerk live in '97, they were not
> using black face version 1 MAQ's on stage. i would bet the bank they
> would love to have their schaltwerk upgraded to a version 2 that can
> tie and slide notes. remember they tied and slid notes with Roland
> MC4B's before Doepfer made any products.
>
> >
> > For such a small enterprise like Doepfer an unsuccessful product
> like the
> > Schaltwerk can be a killer problem.
>
> they can remedy the situation and the problem will go away.the
> benefit will be a happy customer base that evanglize their products
> which will then generate more sales. more sales means they recuop
> thew losses from their inherit miscaculation from the start.
>
>
> This would cause nine people becoming
> > unemployed.
>
> Future Retro are basically two people who run the show. they do
> upgrade their products,when needed. i don't see any notices of them
> going unemployed.
>
> >So I can accept that they invest in better selling products
> > instead of bugfixing of older products, which do not return any
> buck.
>
> they did it with the MAQ 16/3, why not with the schaltwerk. i don't
> see a notice of Doepfer discontinuing the MAQ 16/3 any time soon.
> seems it served Doepfer well to uprade the MAQ 16/3
>
>
>
> >
> > So far these are my private theories.
>
> Florian, i respect what have you written. the above replies and
> opinions, are how strong i feel toward the Schaltwerk. i feel sad
> that the machine has not reached its full potential, which it truly
> deserves. something should been done immediately. plus ,why do all of
> their sequencers trigger only 16th notes? i did not spend two hours
> of my life writing this post top slag Doepfer. i wrote it to some how
> inspire them to fulfill the schaltwerk's due course.
>
> Regards,
> RM
>
>
> >
> >
> > In fact I know that the bugfixes are still on the to do list at
> Doepfer.
> > Chris Assall called me last year, whether I had further complaints.
> So I
> > know it is deferred, but not kicked out.
> >
> >
> > Florian
> >
> > --
> > Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
> > Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software
> GmbH
> > Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669
> München
> > email: florian.anwander@c... |http://www.consol.de
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

> Also a thanx to our mystery guest for the tip to Future Retro, the 
mobius
> seems just like what i should have bought in the first place. But 
does it
> only have one cv out? Single track seems a little limited to me.
I originally planned to get the mobius, but when I realized that it 
only had one track, I switched to the Regelwerk. I need to drive a 
DRM-1 analog drum synth. Also, setting pitch values on the the Future 
Retro sequencer seems like a very tedius two-step process. Bad for 
bass parts.

But I sure do need pattern chaining. I use the Regelwerk, but have to 
revert over to a midi sequencer more than I'd like.

Joe

--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote:
> > Also a thanx to our mystery guest for the tip to Future Retro, 
the 
> mobius
> > seems just like what i should have bought in the first place. But 
> does it
> > only have one cv out? Single track seems a little limited to me.
> I originally planned to get the mobius, but when I realized that it 
> only had one track, 

i do not own one. a friend of mine has the fr-777, i have used his 
machine a few times. it is bsaiclly the same thing as the mobius. i 
agree with you it only has one track, but that track is more 
functions than the 8 tracks of either Doepfer machine. sending 16th 
notes, no slides or octave up or down, a 256 pattern memory. etc.


I switched to the Regelwerk. I need to drive a 
> DRM-1 analog drum synth. Also, setting pitch values on the the 
Future 
> Retro sequencer seems like a very tedius two-step process. Bad for 
> bass parts. 

i agree with you, but the end result is there. it's almost the same 
way as the TB-303.i have used my 303 to control my A100 with great 
results.do i like programming the 303, the answer is no.the 303 does 
not have a display. the Regelwerk and and Schaltwerk do have do 
displays. my suggestion would be to have a Note Menu that you scroll 
between the fields sequentially on the note step you editing.

1-    note number
2-    note velocity
3-    note tie
4-    note slide
5-    octave up or down
6-    note delay(positive and negative for shuffle purposes)

you could have all the data displayed at once and use the step button 
to cycle through the fields. voila instant visual representation. if 
they decide to implement these types of functions, i think people 
will line up to buy these machines and they will definitely sell 
better than they currently are.

now if you had full sysex. you could use the Regelwerk in tandem with 
the Schaltwerk. you could assign and use the faders to generate the 
note number value. this would be a great combination. 

regards,
RM

> 
> But I sure do need pattern chaining.

a very much needed feature to really take advantage of the machine.


 I use the Regelwerk, but have to 

> revert over to a midi sequencer more than I'd like.
> 
> Joe

Good, then perhaps you can inform me about something I have never
understood. How do I get my regelwerk to sync to my cakewalk using MIDI. To
start and stop when the computer sequencer starts. It is present in the
specs and some is said the manual but I have never gotten it to work...

----- Original Message -----

From: "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@toadmail.com>
To: <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 2:18 PM
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Schaltwerk


> > Also a thanx to our mystery guest for the tip to Future Retro, the
> mobius
> > seems just like what i should have bought in the first place. But
> does it
> > only have one cv out? Single track seems a little limited to me.
> I originally planned to get the mobius, but when I realized that it
> only had one track, I switched to the Regelwerk. I need to drive a
> DRM-1 analog drum synth. Also, setting pitch values on the the Future
> Retro sequencer seems like a very tedius two-step process. Bad for
> bass parts.
>
> But I sure do need pattern chaining. I use the Regelwerk, but have to
> revert over to a midi sequencer more than I'd like.
>
> Joe
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Hi ringmod45 

> i wish to keep my identity private and personal.
To me you look like nothing but a troll, so no further reply from my side.
Sorry.

Florian
-- 
Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 München
email: florian.anwander@consol.de |http://www.consol.de

hi florian, let's have look at the dictionary and define the word 
TROLL, here goes

in scandinavian mythology,TROLLS are creatures who look like ugly 
people. they live in or on mountains and steal children.

do you know what i look like? NO! do i live in or on mountains? NO! 
do i steal children? what do you think,really? AGAIN NO!

to avoid any flaming and infantile posturing. please think and act 
like an adult. leave personal slander and derogatory comments in your 
mind. they are certainly not needed on this group. i might be new to 
the group, but i am no newbie when it comes to Doepfer gear.

About the issue concerning my privacy. music is a mystical journey. i 
choose to make music for myself. it's a zen meditation thing. it's 
not about whether my name is known or not, it is irrelevant. so 
please respect that, as i chose not to insult you with an invective 
comment.
 
on that note, peace out and keep it together.
regards,
RM

p.s. i don't sign off using ringmod45. 


--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., Florian Anwander <Florian.Anwander@c...> 
wrote:
> Hi ringmod45 
> 
> > i wish to keep my identity private and personal.
> To me you look like nothing but a troll, so no further reply from 
my side.
> Sorry.
> 
> Florian
> -- 
> Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
> Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software 
GmbH
> Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 
München
> email: florian.anwander@c... |http://www.consol.de