Digital BW, The Print

Has any one used the lyson quad tone black inkset,  I have a empty ciss for my d88 epson and would fill this with the quad tone inks. and the groups advice, as to wether it would work or not,   would be helpful

thans
bob

Long I used them for about a year after initial use with the original MIS quad inkset, and before the Piezography inkset was even introduced. That may tell you how long they have been around, many years.
They are dye, not pigment, and have many problems. Most significantly, very bad metamerism failure. Also, unless you are an advanced user at home with custom setups either through extreme RGB curves and the OEM driver, or custom setups with a RIP, including QTR, I am not aware of any workflow commonly available for them that will rival the quality the contemporary inksets and workflows can attain.
Perhaps others with more recent experience with them will chime in...
Tyler
http://www.custom-digital.com/

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <fallis.robert@...> wrote:

>
> Has any one used the lyson quad tone black inkset,  I have a empty ciss for my d88 epson and would fill this with the quad tone inks. and the groups advice, as to wether it would work or not,   would be helpful
> 
> thans
> bob
>

I used the Lyson QuadBlack inks with a CIS in an Epson 1160 for a few years until I sold the printer about a year ago (to a pro photographer who was very happy with the print quality). I must say that I found the ink set completely useless with the Epson driver - very poor Dmax, and bad banding. That was when my desperate internet searching led me to QTR.
Being an i1 user, and familiar with colour profiling, I found that I was able to generate QTR curves *relatively* easily. The results that I achieved on glossy papers were very good. Not just my opiniom but judges in club, national, and international photo competitions too.
I found I got the best results on Ilford Galerie Classic Gloss (swellable coating) which gave me a Dmax of about 2.6, and pretty smooth prints. These prints are faring quite well on the wall too. No obvious change after three or four years; not long when we are talking about archival qualities, but good enough for many people.
The metamerism that Tyler mentions is undoubtedly present, but I did not find it excessive. It only appeared when prints were viewed under low colour temperature tungsten illumination, when the prints took on a slight red cast in shadow regions. I think this is inevitable with dye inks because most black dyes begin to tranmit light from the deep red, becoming pretty transparent in the near infrared. The very strong red component of tungsten light is partially transmitted by the dye, and the red light reflected from the paper gives the very deep red cast. No problem incidentally with halogen lamps, and they look perfectly neutral under 4700K Solux.
On the plus side of course, if you like glossy prints, there is no bronzing and no gloss differential. Not much clogging either in my experience. However, if you are only interested in matt papers then the modern carbon B&W sets will certainly be your best bet.

Roger Barrett

www.hermitage-ps.co.uk

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tboleyyh" <tyler@...> wrote:

> They are dye, not pigment, and have many problems. Most significantly, very bad metamerism failure. Also, unless you are an advanced user at home with custom setups either through extreme RGB curves and the OEM driver, or custom setups with a RIP, including QTR, I am not aware of any workflow commonly available for them that will rival the quality the contemporary inksets and workflows can attain.
> Perhaps others with more recent experience with them will chime in...
> Tyler
> http://www.custom-digital.com/
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <fallis.robert@> wrote:
> >
> > Has any one used the lyson quad tone black inkset,  I have a empty ciss for my d88 epson and would fill this with the quad tone inks. and the groups advice, as to wether it would work or not,   would be helpful
> > 
> > thans
> > bob
> >
>

Bob: Way, way back when, I had a pair of Epson printers, a 2200 and  
an 1160. The 1160 was used exclusively with Lyson's QuadBlack Neutral  
inkset. When it worked, and when I could get hold of Lyson's Darkroom  
Glossy or Matte paper, it looked gorgeous. But: (1) the carts had a  
habit of clogging on a regular basis, leading to a lot of ink wasted  
clearing said clogs (which could be quite stubborn); (2) The inks  
*did* have an issue with metamerism, though not as bad as I was  
suffering with my 2200 with the standard Epson inkset; (3), Those  
Lyson papers, good as they were in performance, were well-nigh  
impossible to get hold of on a reliable basis, which obviously won't  
do If I'm making prints for an exhibit, sale, or for another  
photographer/artist.

I ended up ditching both printers a little over four years ago for my  
current printer, an HP Photosmart Pro 8750, which I like so much I  
went to the trouble of finding a virtually-unused 8750 as a backup.  
This is rather iconoclastic compared to much of the rest of the  
group, but I *do* think the consensus here on Lyson is that it *was*  
an interesting option once upon a time, but not now.


- Barrett