Digital BW, The Print

The purpose of this post is request knowledgeable input for someone
about to enter B&W digital printing. Specifically, I'm looking for
confirmation that the pathway I'm considering should result in
successful entry to high quality B&W digital printing. The entry
pathway I'm considering is an Epson 1280 printer and MIS UT2 cartridge
inks, which will be used with Photoshop CS2 on a PC running Windows XP.

If you are knowledgeable and would think that another entry pathway
would be better, I'd like to hear your suggestions.

Thanks,

Jay Decker
Kennewick, WA

You are bound to get a lot of different answers, but here is my two cents:

  There is nothing wrong with the 1280/UT2 combination, but if you
  are just starting, I would suggest a 4-color printer like the 
  Epson C88. You can use MIS inks, it will make beautiful prints,
  you will only have to deal with 4 cartridges, and this printer 
  can be had refurbished for $59. You could use MIS EZ ink and 
  control output with the Epson driver sliders. If you want more
  control you can use any of the other MIS ink sets. I use UT-FSN
  with great results in a C86. The 1280 is getting awfully long
  in the tooth, and could use some updates, like a smaller droplet
  size and individual cartridges. By the time you become proficient
  it may be discontinued. That said, if you need to print larger than
  letter size the 1280 becomes a good choice.
  
  Your biggest decision is how you are going
  to profile and linearize your inks -- Quadtone RIP, Photoshop
  adjustment or transfer curves, ICC files with embedded curves, 
  blah, blah, blah. If you use the EZ inks I think you can avoid 
  this complexity, at least to get started. As you progress you will 
  probably want to at least experiment with some of the other schemes.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "monkeytumble"
<spamhole@...> wrote:

>
> The purpose of this post is request knowledgeable input for someone
> about to enter B&W digital printing. Specifically, I'm looking for
> confirmation that the pathway I'm considering should result in
> successful entry to high quality B&W digital printing. The entry
> pathway I'm considering is an Epson 1280 printer and MIS UT2 cartridge
> inks, which will be used with Photoshop CS2 on a PC running Windows XP.
> 
> If you are knowledgeable and would think that another entry pathway
> would be better, I'd like to hear your suggestions.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jay Decker
> Kennewick, WA
>

I, too, wonder about the 1280.  I've gone through 2 of them and have
concluded they are more prone to problems than the other printers I've had.
For 13" paper, however, the choices are not that encouraging.  I have a 2400
that I use of color, but I'm not sure it's worth the price if one is just
printing B&W.  Frankly, I use my 220, 2200, and 7500 for B&W.  If 13" paper
is required, the refurbished 2200s are still available, it appears.  See
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?oid=32991459
<http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?oid=32991459&ref
=wex> &ref=wex   Even the refurbished 2200s are not cheap, but they have, I
believe, a much better track record for reliability than the 1280.  There
are lots of workflows for them - UT7 is like UT2, and the QTR workflows I'm
now experimenting with are on the 2200.  So, if one needs more than a C88 or
220 (refurb only), the 2200 might be a contender.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip
Schwartz
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:57 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Entry Pathway to B&W Printing

 

You are bound to get a lot of different answers, but here is my two cents:

There is nothing wrong with the 1280/UT2 combination, but if you
are just starting, I would suggest a 4-color printer like the 
Epson C88. You can use MIS inks, it will make beautiful prints,
you will only have to deal with 4 cartridges, and this printer 
can be had refurbished for $59. You could use MIS EZ ink and 
control output with the Epson driver sliders. If you want more
control you can use any of the other MIS ink sets. I use UT-FSN
with great results in a C86. The 1280 is getting awfully long
in the tooth, and could use some updates, like a smaller droplet
size and individual cartridges. By the time you become proficient
it may be discontinued. That said, if you need to print larger than
letter size the 1280 becomes a good choice.

Your biggest decision is how you are going
to profile and linearize your inks -- Quadtone RIP, Photoshop
adjustment or transfer curves, ICC files with embedded curves, 
blah, blah, blah. If you use the EZ inks I think you can avoid 
this complexity, at least to get started. As you progress you will 
probably want to at least experiment with some of the other schemes.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "monkeytumble"
<spamhole@...> wrote:
>
> The purpose of this post is request knowledgeable input for someone
> about to enter B&W digital printing. Specifically, I'm looking for
> confirmation that the pathway I'm considering should result in
> successful entry to high quality B&W digital printing. The entry
> pathway I'm considering is an Epson 1280 printer and MIS UT2 cartridge
> inks, which will be used with Photoshop CS2 on a PC running Windows XP.
> 
> If you are knowledgeable and would think that another entry pathway
> would be better, I'd like to hear your suggestions.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jay Decker
> Kennewick, WA
>

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>...So, if one needs more than a C88 or
> 220 (refurb only), the 2200 might be a contender.

Speaking of the C8x printers, is the "C88+" functionally equivalent to
the "C88" when it comes to EZ inksets? The C88+ seems to be the
successor to the C88, but some places (e.g. amazon) still sell both. 

I've been using a C86 with Eboni/EZN/EZW-y since late 2005. Very
satisfied, but it was acting up last night (clogs and head alignment
issues). I want to stay abreast of replacement options.

Thanks,
Mitch

I also have a 1280 that died after not much use, and it clogged
constantly when it did work. I may try the R1800 for 13" B&W. Cone K7
is available for this and QTR profiles exist, but I use MIS ink so I
will have to drive this with a RIP. Using the Epson driver would no
longer be an option.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> I, too, wonder about the 1280.  I've gone through 2 of them and have
> concluded they are more prone to problems than the other printers
I've had.
> For 13" paper, however, the choices are not that encouraging.  I
have a 2400
> that I use of color, but I'm not sure it's worth the price if one is
just
> printing B&W.  Frankly, I use my 220, 2200, and 7500 for B&W.  If
13" paper
> is required, the refurbished 2200s are still available, it appears.  See
> http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?oid=32991459
>
<http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?oid=32991459&ref
> =wex> &ref=wex   Even the refurbished 2200s are not cheap, but they
have, I
> believe, a much better track record for reliability than the 1280. 
There
> are lots of workflows for them - UT7 is like UT2, and the QTR
workflows I'm
> now experimenting with are on the 2200.  So, if one needs more than
a C88 or
> 220 (refurb only), the 2200 might be a contender.
> 
>  
> 
> Paul
> 
> www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Philip
> Schwartz
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:57 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Entry Pathway to B&W Printing
> 
>  
> 
> You are bound to get a lot of different answers, but here is my two
cents:
> 
> There is nothing wrong with the 1280/UT2 combination, but if you
> are just starting, I would suggest a 4-color printer like the 
> Epson C88. You can use MIS inks, it will make beautiful prints,
> you will only have to deal with 4 cartridges, and this printer 
> can be had refurbished for $59. You could use MIS EZ ink and 
> control output with the Epson driver sliders. If you want more
> control you can use any of the other MIS ink sets. I use UT-FSN
> with great results in a C86. The 1280 is getting awfully long
> in the tooth, and could use some updates, like a smaller droplet
> size and individual cartridges. By the time you become proficient
> it may be discontinued. That said, if you need to print larger than
> letter size the 1280 becomes a good choice.
> 
> Your biggest decision is how you are going
> to profile and linearize your inks -- Quadtone RIP, Photoshop
> adjustment or transfer curves, ICC files with embedded curves, 
> blah, blah, blah. If you use the EZ inks I think you can avoid 
> this complexity, at least to get started. As you progress you will 
> probably want to at least experiment with some of the other schemes.
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhit
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "monkeytumble"
> <spamhole@> wrote:
> >
> > The purpose of this post is request knowledgeable input for someone
> > about to enter B&W digital printing. Specifically, I'm looking for
> > confirmation that the pathway I'm considering should result in
> > successful entry to high quality B&W digital printing. The entry
> > pathway I'm considering is an Epson 1280 printer and MIS UT2 cartridge
> > inks, which will be used with Photoshop CS2 on a PC running
Windows XP.

> > 
> > If you are knowledgeable and would think that another entry pathway
> > would be better, I'd like to hear your suggestions.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Jay Decker
> > Kennewick, WA
> >
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hello Jay,

>The purpose of this post is request knowledgeable input for someone
>about to enter B&W digital printing. Specifically, I'm looking for
>confirmation that the pathway I'm considering should result in
>successful entry to high quality B&W digital printing. The entry
>pathway I'm considering is an Epson 1280 printer and MIS UT2 
>cartridge inks, which will be used with Photoshop CS2 on a PC 
>running Windows XP.
> 
>If you are knowledgeable and would think that another entry pathway
>would be better, I'd like to hear your suggestions.

Add my vote to what others have said about the 1280.  It's an older
design for dye inks and has a well earned reputation for giving people
the fits with clogs and banding problems when used with pigment inks.
It is quite possible for 1280 printer woes to dominate your time and
energy and detract from the real reasons we do this.  Back in the days
when the 1280 was the primary desktop machine in use this forum was
dominated by clog and banding issues (the Bad Old Days).  Some people
report few problems with them, but my perception is that they are a
minority.  I agree with Paul about the 2200 if you want to use that
type of approach, it was designed for pigment inks.  

However I have a different opinion re the worth of the 2400 as
primarily a BW printer.  My own path has gone from a 1280 era machine
(the smaller 870), through a 2200 and currently a 2400.  I use the
2400 strictly for BW and find it to be superb and worth every cent of
it's price.  The reason is the inks it uses and the kinds of workflows
possible with it's driver.

You didn't say what degree of complexity you want to pursue, but if
you are at all inclined to a simpler approach without the use of
profiles, RIPs and densitometers, then the 2400 is worth its weight
in gold (so to speak).  It uses the Epson K3 inks (or MIS substitutes
if you want to fill your own carts) and has what is essentially a
simple built in RIP which produces very fine BW prints with it's
Advanced Black and White mode (ABW).  It is so good it can be used
with a simplified workflow without the need for the above mentioned
complexities (see article #9 at the link below), or can be used with
all of that for a higher degree of control - whichever you prefer. 
Basically it offers the ability to make gallery quality BW prints out
of the box with a minimum of fuss, without closing the door to
the more complex workflows if and when you desire to go that route. 
The results are superb.  And of course it can also make color prints.

These K3 ink printers are the latest Epson technlogy and IMO are the
best way to get started because they are so versatile and are the
direction the technology is going.  But they are more expensive.  The
2400 lists for $849 and can usually be found for a bit less.  If you
can afford it you'll probably be glad you did.  


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

When I was using a 1200 with MIS UT inks it clogged constantly and when changed back to the oem inks was fine.

So my conclusion is that, if one wants to use third party pigment inks it is best to stick to a printer that is designed for pigment inks, such as the 2100/2200, which you might pick up cheap second-hand. Which I might add, does pretty good BW with oem inks plus QTR.

Just my experience, for what it's worth.
Richard
--
http://smallfield.vze.com
http://photos.smallfield.vze.com (Photos web site)
http://warkworth.vze.com/ (Warkworth photo essay)


   "Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid 
   people are conservatives."
  --John Stuart Mill

Although the 1280 is capable of incredibly fine work with various ink
setups, the 2200 is more reliable...it doesn't clog with OEM, prints
credible B&W with QTR and OEM, and does very fine Black Only with MIS
UT7 ink and IMO even better with UT7 and the Epson driver. 

I DON'T use any profiles or measuring technology, but I do have a well
developed eye from years of color and B&W darkroom. If you're
determined to be ultra-stingy with inks and paper, you're likely to
spend a LOT of money figuring out which measuring technology meets
your needs, rather than learning similarly expensively visually. IMO. 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "monkeytumble"
<spamhole@...> wrote:

>
> The purpose of this post is request knowledgeable input for someone
> about to enter B&W digital printing. Specifically, I'm looking for
> confirmation that the pathway I'm considering should result in
> successful entry to high quality B&W digital printing. The entry
> pathway I'm considering is an Epson 1280 printer and MIS UT2 cartridge
> inks, which will be used with Photoshop CS2 on a PC running Windows XP.
> 
> If you are knowledgeable and would think that another entry pathway
> would be better, I'd like to hear your suggestions.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jay Decker
> Kennewick, WA
>

>... is the "C88+" functionally equivalent to
> the "C88" when it comes to EZ inksets? 

My latest notes are at http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/C86-EZ-UT-Readme.htm

(Mine was supposed to be a C88+, but a C88 arrived.  From what I can tell
there is just a slight speed difference, perhaps due to a minor chip
upgrade.  They seem to be the same.)


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Until my experience with the Epson R220, I too might have been inclined to
recommend purchasing only printers designed for pigments.  However, the 220
(dye printer) has been about as good as it gets.  So, it may be that the
newer technology used in the Epson dye printers is good enough for pigments.


 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Smallfield
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 2:05 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Entry Pathway to B&W Printing

 

When I was using a 1200 with MIS UT inks it clogged constantly and when
changed back to the oem inks was fine.

So my conclusion is that, if one wants to use third party pigment inks it is
best to stick to a printer that is designed for pigment inks, such as the
2100/2200, which you might pick up cheap second-hand. Which I might add,
does pretty good BW with oem inks plus QTR.

Just my experience, for what it's worth.
Richard
--
http://smallfield. <http://smallfield.vze.com> vze.com
http://photos. <http://photos.smallfield.vze.com> smallfield.vze.com (Photos
web site)
http://warkworth. <http://warkworth.vze.com/> vze.com/ (Warkworth photo
essay)

"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid 
people are conservatives."
--John Stuart Mill

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Data point: I run exclusively MIS pigment inks in my R200s and 
have *never* experienced a clog. Knock on wood :)

What we really need is a 13" or 17" version of the R22x - a hextone
printer designed to handle heavy-weight fine art papers. 
The 2400 may be the best solution available, but it seems like serious
overkill for dedicated b&w.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> Until my experience with the Epson R220, I too might have been
inclined to
> recommend purchasing only printers designed for pigments.  However,
the 220
> (dye printer) has been about as good as it gets.  So, it may be that the
> newer technology used in the Epson dye printers is good enough for
pigments.
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Paul
> 
> www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Richard
> Smallfield
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 2:05 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Entry Pathway to B&W Printing
> 
>  
> 
> When I was using a 1200 with MIS UT inks it clogged constantly and when
> changed back to the oem inks was fine.
> 
> So my conclusion is that, if one wants to use third party pigment
inks it is
> best to stick to a printer that is designed for pigment inks, such
as the
> 2100/2200, which you might pick up cheap second-hand. Which I might add,
> does pretty good BW with oem inks plus QTR.
> 
> Just my experience, for what it's worth.
> Richard
> --
> http://smallfield. <http://smallfield.vze.com> vze.com
> http://photos. <http://photos.smallfield.vze.com> smallfield.vze.com
(Photos

> web site)
> http://warkworth. <http://warkworth.vze.com/> vze.com/ (Warkworth photo
> essay)
> 
> "Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid 
> people are conservatives."
> --John Stuart Mill
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

It would appear that the R200, R220, and R340 were designed too well for Epson's financial benefit.  That fact, along with the fact that the R260, R380 have introduced new ink/cart technology, it would seem unlikely that Epson would build a wider version of the R220.  Much to our dismay.  I don't know enough about how to read Epsons intentions from their current offerings to know if they might introduce a 13" printer based on the R260/R380.  But, if history is a teacher, our best bet is likely to be counting on the third part ink/cart vendors to come up with a solution to whatever Epson offers. Without a doubt Epson is working very hard ****ake this very difficult for the third parties to accomplish legally.
   
  *********

Philip Schwartz <Philip.Schwartz@...> wrote:
          Data point: I run exclusively MIS pigment inks in my R200s and 
have *never* experienced a clog. Knock on wood :)

What we really need is a 13" or 17" version of the R22x - a hextone
printer designed to handle heavy-weight fine art papers. 
The 2400 may be the best solution available, but it seems like serious
overkill for dedicated b&w.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> Until my experience with the Epson R220, I too might have been
inclined to
> recommend purchasing only printers designed for pigments. However,
the 220
> (dye printer) has been about as good as it gets. So, it may be that the
> newer technology used in the Epson dye printers is good enough for
pigments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul
> 
> www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _____ 
> 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Richard
> Smallfield
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 2:05 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Entry Pathway to B&W Printing
> 
> 
> 
> When I was using a 1200 with MIS UT inks it clogged constantly and when
> changed back to the oem inks was fine.
> 
> So my conclusion is that, if one wants to use third party pigment
inks it is
> best to stick to a printer that is designed for pigment inks, such
as the
> 2100/2200, which you might pick up cheap second-hand. Which I might add,
> does pretty good BW with oem inks plus QTR.
> 
> Just my experience, for what it's worth.
> Richard
> --
> http://smallfield. <http://smallfield.vze.com> vze.com
> http://photos. <http://photos.smallfield.vze.com> smallfield.vze.com
(Photos
> web site)
> http://warkworth. <http://warkworth.vze.com/> vze.com/ (Warkworth photo
> essay)
> 
> "Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid 
> people are conservatives."
> --John Stuart Mill
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



         


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

it would certainly be less costly to simply pop a set of the carts in and give it a go, than 
buying a new printer. Another good option would be doing the same with the K6 set, and 
use it with QTR and supplied setups in demo mode.
Very likely you'd have no problems. If you do, it was not that expense to arrive at a more 
definitive answer.
Tyler


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "monkeytumble" <spamhole@...> 
wrote:

>
> The purpose of this post is request knowledgeable input for someone
> about to enter B&W digital printing. Specifically, I'm looking for
> confirmation that the pathway I'm considering should result in
> successful entry to high quality B&W digital printing. The entry
> pathway I'm considering is an Epson 1280 printer and MIS UT2 cartridge
> inks, which will be used with Photoshop CS2 on a PC running Windows XP.
> 
> If you are knowledgeable and would think that another entry pathway
> would be better, I'd like to hear your suggestions.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jay Decker
> Kennewick, WA
>

Ckayton, I am using the 2200 at this time and am looking at switching from color to mostly BW Printing. I am thinking of getting another printer either the 1800 or 2400 and designate one for BW and the other for color.  
Any ideas of what printer should be BW and which one should be designated color?
Thank you for the advice!
Kurt

----- Original Message ----
From: Clayton Jones <cj@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 4:38:30 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Entry Pathway to B&W Printing

Hello Jay,

>The purpose of this post is request knowledgeable input for someone
>about to enter B&W digital printing. Specifically, I'm looking for
>confirmation that the pathway I'm considering should result in
>successful entry to high quality B&W digital printing. The entry
>pathway I'm considering is an Epson 1280 printer and MIS UT2 
>cartridge inks, which will be used with Photoshop CS2 on a PC 
>running Windows XP.
> 
>If you are knowledgeable and would think that another entry pathway
>would be better, I'd like to hear your suggestions.

Add my vote to what others have said about the 1280. It's an older
design for dye inks and has a well earned reputation for giving people
the fits with clogs and banding problems when used with pigment inks.
It is quite possible for 1280 printer woes to dominate your time and
energy and detract from the real reasons we do this. Back in the days
when the 1280 was the primary desktop machine in use this forum was
dominated by clog and banding issues (the Bad Old Days). Some people
report few problems with them, but my perception is that they are a
minority. I agree with Paul about the 2200 if you want to use that
type of approach, it was designed for pigment inks. 

However I have a different opinion re the worth of the 2400 as
primarily a BW printer. My own path has gone from a 1280 era machine
(the smaller 870), through a 2200 and currently a 2400. I use the
2400 strictly for BW and find it to be superb and worth every cent of
it's price. The reason is the inks it uses and the kinds of workflows
possible with it's driver.

You didn't say what degree of complexity you want to pursue, but if
you are at all inclined to a simpler approach without the use of
profiles, RIPs and densitometers, then the 2400 is worth its weight
in gold (so to speak). It uses the Epson K3 inks (or MIS substitutes
if you want to fill your own carts) and has what is essentially a
simple built in RIP which produces very fine BW prints with it's
Advanced Black and White mode (ABW). It is so good it can be used
with a simplified workflow without the need for the above mentioned
complexities (see article #9 at the link below), or can be used with
all of that for a higher degree of control - whichever you prefer. 
Basically it offers the ability to make gallery quality BW prints out
of the box with a minimum of fuss, without closing the door to
the more complex workflows if and when you desire to go that route. 
The results are superb. And of course it can also make color prints.

These K3 ink printers are the latest Epson technlogy and IMO are the
best way to get started because they are so versatile and are the
direction the technology is going. But they are more expensive. The
2400 lists for $849 and can usually be found for a bit less. If you
can afford it you'll probably be glad you did. 

Regards,
Clayton

Info on black and white digital printing at 
http://www.cjcom. net/digiprnarts. htm




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Kurt,

>Ckayton, I am using the 2200 at this time and am looking at switching
from color to mostly BW Printing. I am thinking of getting another
printer either the 1800 or 2400 and designate one for BW and the other
for color.  
>Any ideas of what printer should be BW and which one should be 
>designated color?

The only good BW coming from an 1800 that I have heard of is by using
3rd party inks and controlling it with a RIP (someone please correct
me if I'm wrong here).  IOW, it would be a RIP-controlled BW only
machine into which you could put any ink you wish.  In that regard I
don't know if it offers any advantages over your current 2200 (other
than being newer - 2200s have been known to wear out the paper
handling mechanism).  So the 1800 might be the color machine with the
2200 dedicated to BW.

The 2400 is a different ball game because of the combination of K3
inks and the ABW driver.  It can produce excellent BW as is without
need for a RIP (ABW is  sort of a simple built in RIP), or a RIP can
be used with it for a higher degree of control.  It's PK ink is better
than most on glossy paper for reducing bronzing and metamerism.  

You can also put other inks in it and control it with a RIP, which
puts it in the same class as the 1800 if used that way.  So it seems
that the 2400 only makes sense when used with K3 ink (or the MIS
substitute), either with ABW or a RIP.  It also has the advantage of
being able to do color prints when used this way, so it can serve both
purposes if you wanted just one machine.

So it comes down to how you intend to use the new printer, there are
many possibilities.  For BW, If you're into RIPs and  profiles and all
that and want to use a custom blend of inks then the 1800 is cheaper
and will be a dedicated BW machine, but you can do that with the 2200,
so the 1800 could be dedicated to color.

If you want no fuss out-of-the-box good BW then the 2400 is a great
choice, and it can do color as well (and can be controlled with a RIP
if you want to go that route - a RIP with K3 inks gives greater
control over the blending of the different inks, such as omitting
Yellow, etc).  At the link below there is an article (#9) which
outlines a simple ABW workflow for the 2400, so you can get an idea of
how it would be to work this way.

It also depends on which type of paper you prefer, matte or glossy (or
both).  The 2400 could be used with PK for color and BW on glossy and
the 2200 decicated to BW on matte papers.

There are several possible combinations, I hope this helps sort it out.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@...> wrote:
>
> 
> The only good BW coming from an 1800 that I have heard of is by using
> 3rd party inks and controlling it with a RIP (someone please correct
> me if I'm wrong here).  

Hello Clayton,

In message #80452, Steve Karafyllakis gave us his insight as to b&w
printing options with the R1800. Maybe he'd like to add to it. 

Cheers,
Andre

ayn,
Th you for the help!
Kurt

----- Original Message ----
From: Clayton Jones <cj@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 8:49:50 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Entry Pathway to B&W Printing

Hello Kurt,

>Ckayton, I am using the 2200 at this time and am looking at switching
from color to mostly BW Printing. I am thinking of getting another
printer either the 1800 or 2400 and designate one for BW and the other
for color. 
>Any ideas of what printer should be BW and which one should be 
>designated color?

The only good BW coming from an 1800 that I have heard of is by using
3rd party inks and controlling it with a RIP (someone please correct
me if I'm wrong here). IOW, it would be a RIP-controlled BW only
machine into which you could put any ink you wish. In that regard I
don't know if it offers any advantages over your current 2200 (other
than being newer - 2200s have been known to wear out the paper
handling mechanism). So the 1800 might be the color machine with the
2200 dedicated to BW.

The 2400 is a different ball game because of the combination of K3
inks and the ABW driver. It can produce excellent BW as is without
need for a RIP (ABW is sort of a simple built in RIP), or a RIP can
be used with it for a higher degree of control. It's PK ink is better
than most on glossy paper for reducing bronzing and metamerism. 

You can also put other inks in it and control it with a RIP, which
puts it in the same class as the 1800 if used that way. So it seems
that the 2400 only makes sense when used with K3 ink (or the MIS
substitute), either with ABW or a RIP. It also has the advantage of
being able to do color prints when used this way, so it can serve both
purposes if you wanted just one machine.

So it comes down to how you intend to use the new printer, there are
many possibilities. For BW, If you're into RIPs and profiles and all
that and want to use a custom blend of inks then the 1800 is cheaper
and will be a dedicated BW machine, but you can do that with the 2200,
so the 1800 could be dedicated to color.

If you want no fuss out-of-the-box good BW then the 2400 is a great
choice, and it can do color as well (and can be controlled with a RIP
if you want to go that route - a RIP with K3 inks gives greater
control over the blending of the different inks, such as omitting
Yellow, etc). At the link below there is an article (#9) which
outlines a simple ABW workflow for the 2400, so you can get an idea of
how it would be to work this way.

It also depends on which type of paper you prefer, matte or glossy (or
both). The 2400 could be used with PK for color and BW on glossy and
the 2200 decicated to BW on matte papers.

There are several possible combinations, I hope this helps sort it out.

Regards,
Clayton

Info on black and white digital printing at 
http://www.cjcom. net/digiprnarts. htm




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've seen quite a few posts focused on "dedicated" black and white printing. Please take 
note that the new HP Z3100 printers (24 inch and 44 inch) have 12 inks. They csn print in 
dedicated blacks mode, which uses only black, light grey, etc. I have one of these, and the 
results on both photographic style inkjet media, and fine art media are very, very good.

Interestingly, these printers do not require ink purging before switching media, or from 
color to black and white. No discernible metamerism or color casts.

As I continue to test-drive the printer, I will post additional info here.

Best regards, and Happy New Year,


David Saffir
author of : Mastering Digital Color
www.davidsaffir.com








--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Andre Moreau" <bwscans@...> 
wrote:

>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
> <cj@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > The only good BW coming from an 1800 that I have heard of is by using
> > 3rd party inks and controlling it with a RIP (someone please correct
> > me if I'm wrong here).  
> 
> Hello Clayton,
> 
> In message #80452, Steve Karafyllakis gave us his insight as to b&w
> printing options with the R1800. Maybe he'd like to add to it. 
> 
> Cheers,
> Andre
>