Digital BW, The Print

I've been using MIS UT2 inks in my 1280 for a couple of years with no 
problems.  Windows XP SP2, calibrated monitor, Picture Window Pro 
with color management off, Paul Roarke curves (usually EEM neutral).  

I bought and installed a new UT2 cartridge in the printer last week.  
As soon as I installed it, my prints started printing lighter, and 
with a significant bluish tinge to them.  With the old cartridge (and 
all previous ones), I had WYSIWYG with the screen.  With the new 
cartridge, it's too light and too blue.  It's like all the light and 
mid-tones have been lightened one zone.  

In fact I had a file up in PWP when I changed the cartridge, and had 
printed it just before and just after the cartridge change.  The same 
thing happens with other files, so it's not a problem with that one 
file.

I talked to MIS tech support, and they are trying to convince me that 
I've changed my settings somehow.  I've checked and double-checked, 
and everything appears the same.

When I changed the cartridge, I ran the usual two cleaning cycles, 
and a nozzle check. Didn't get a perfect pattern, so I printed a junk 
print, ran two more cleaning cycles and nozzle checks, and got a 
perfect pattern.

Does this sound familiar to anyone? 

Aaargh!
--Peter

"Does this sound familiar to anyone"

Very. It's why I stopped using MIS inks. Things would go along fine for 
months, then MIS would  get a bad batch of cartridges and things would go 
wrong. With me it was usually a magenta tinge.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter A. Klein" <pklein@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 4:59 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] New UT2 cart--prints suddenly too light


I've been using MIS UT2 inks in my 1280 for a couple of years with no
problems.  Windows XP SP2, calibrated monitor, Picture Window Pro
with color management off, Paul Roarke curves (usually EEM neutral).

I bought and installed a new UT2 cartridge in the printer last week.
As soon as I installed it, my prints started printing lighter, and
with a significant bluish tinge to them.  With the old cartridge (and
all previous ones), I had WYSIWYG with the screen.  With the new
cartridge, it's too light and too blue.  It's like all the light and
mid-tones have been lightened one zone.

In fact I had a file up in PWP when I changed the cartridge, and had
printed it just before and just after the cartridge change.  The same
thing happens with other files, so it's not a problem with that one
file.

I talked to MIS tech support, and they are trying to convince me that
I've changed my settings somehow.  I've checked and double-checked,
and everything appears the same.

When I changed the cartridge, I ran the usual two cleaning cycles,
and a nozzle check. Didn't get a perfect pattern, so I printed a junk
print, ran two more cleaning cycles and nozzle checks, and got a
perfect pattern.

Does this sound familiar to anyone?

Aaargh!
--Peter






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I'm having the same experience. My latest UT2 cart is printing  
lighter than the previous.

Mike Kitei
On Jul 8, 2006, at 4:59 AM, Peter A. Klein wrote:

> I've been using MIS UT2 inks in my 1280 for a couple of years with no
> problems. Windows XP SP2, calibrated monitor, Picture Window Pro
> with color management off, Paul Roarke curves (usually EEM neutral).
>
> I bought and installed a new UT2 cartridge in the printer last week.
> As soon as I installed it, my prints started printing lighter, and
> with a significant bluish tinge to them. With the old cartridge (and
> all previous ones), I had WYSIWYG with the screen. With the new
> cartridge, it's too light and too blue. It's like all the light and
> mid-tones have been lightened one zone.
>
> In fact I had a file up in PWP when I changed the cartridge, and had
> printed it just before and just after the cartridge change. The same
> thing happens with other files, so it's not a problem with that one
> file.
>
> I talked to MIS tech support, and they are trying to convince me that
> I've changed my settings somehow. I've checked and double-checked,
> and everything appears the same.
>
> When I changed the cartridge, I ran the usual two cleaning cycles,
> and a nozzle check. Didn't get a perfect pattern, so I printed a junk
> print, ran two more cleaning cycles and nozzle checks, and got a
> perfect pattern.
>
> Does this sound familiar to anyone?
>
> Aaargh!
> --Peter
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I believe I'm having the same issue- I replaced a few of the UT-R2 
inks with new versions (Y, LC, M).  How can I troubleshoot to see if 
the densities are correct?  I'm going to start by reprinting some 
images I did with my old set.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Michael Kitei 
<mkitei@...> wrote:
>
> I'm having the same experience. My latest UT2 cart is printing  
> lighter than the previous.
> 
> Mike Kitei
> On Jul 8, 2006, at 4:59 AM, Peter A. Klein wrote:
> 
> > I've been using MIS UT2 inks in my 1280 for a couple of years 
with no
> > problems. Windows XP SP2, calibrated monitor, Picture Window Pro
> > with color management off, Paul Roarke curves (usually EEM 
neutral).
> >
> > I bought and installed a new UT2 cartridge in the printer last 
week.
> > As soon as I installed it, my prints started printing lighter, 
and
> > with a significant bluish tinge to them. With the old cartridge 
(and
> > all previous ones), I had WYSIWYG with the screen. With the new
> > cartridge, it's too light and too blue. It's like all the light 
and
> > mid-tones have been lightened one zone.
> >
> > In fact I had a file up in PWP when I changed the cartridge, and 
had
> > printed it just before and just after the cartridge change. The 
same
> > thing happens with other files, so it's not a problem with that 
one
> > file.
> >
> > I talked to MIS tech support, and they are trying to convince me 
that
> > I've changed my settings somehow. I've checked and double-
checked,
> > and everything appears the same.
> >
> > When I changed the cartridge, I ran the usual two cleaning 
cycles,
> > and a nozzle check. Didn't get a perfect pattern, so I printed a 
junk

> > print, ran two more cleaning cycles and nozzle checks, and got a
> > perfect pattern.
> >
> > Does this sound familiar to anyone?
> >
> > Aaargh!
> > --Peter
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

> "Does this sound familiar to anyone"

Yup, this (a bad load of ink in a cartridge) has happened to me on too 
many occassions with fine art aftermarket ink cartridges. At first I 
would burn through several hours trying to figure out what I or my 
hardware/software was doing wrong until finally after many sheets of 
paper troubleshooting I figured out it was a bad load of ink in the 
cartridge. This would be confirmed later by posts on forums (like 
yours) saying something like, "Hey everybody watch out, so-and-so has 
shipped a bad batch of cartridges." Eventuallly it happened enough that 
I would recognize it right away and just toss the cartridge. I'm 
through with that; I now only use OEM ink cartridges. I've never had a 
bad load of ink in all the OEM cartridges I've used.

A possible solution to this would be to use bulk inks and fill your own 
cartridges, or use a CIS. Personally, I don't print enough to justify 
using bulk ink.

Thanks, everyone!  At least now I know I'm not crazy--about the ink 
issue, anyway  :-)

A little additional information.  The tech I talked to at MIS gave me 
a link to this page:  http://www.inksupply.com/colorswabs.cfm

This page has pictures of swabs they made using bulk inks on "Epson 
Archival Matte," now called Epson Enhanced Matte.  He suggested that 
I use Q-tips or equivalent to paint a swab of ink on EEM paper, and 
compare them to the UT2 examples on the Web page.

After fooling with a Q-tip and an old cartridge, I decided that I 
didn't want to ruin the new cartridge and possibly my printer with 
cotton lint.  But I found another way to check.  There is a file on 
the MIS site called PurgePattern6 or something like that.  I've had 
it for a while.  It is basically stripes of each pure ink color, 
designed to clear the print head of old ink when changing carts, 
using a cleaning cart, etc.

I printed a 3-inch section of this file, and it does look like the 
Light Magenta position (which holds the lightest gray ink) might be a 
bit too light.  I'll talke to MIS again on Monday and see what they 
say.

As I have a 1280, if I want to print B&W with inks that don't fade, 
third party seems the only way to go. I've had great results with MIS 
inks up until now.  Are there better ways to do B&W now?  My main 
concern is to find something that works and stick with it.  So far, 
MIS UT2 has been it.  I am more interested in printing B&W pictures 
than I am in endlessly tweaking my methods.  Since UT2 worked well, I 
haven't really explored other alternatives in a couple of years. 
Also, since I use Picture Window Pro, solutions that rely on Adobe 
Photoshop-specific settings are of no use to me.

--Peter

I'm curious what kind of experience others have had as far as inconsistencies in batches goes (non OEM inks that is).  If you were to create a new density curve each time you loaded a fresh set of inks, wouldn't that offset the batch inconsistencies?  Are others doing that?  I suppose if you only have a handful of papers, that might not be too big a chore...although irritating.  Not that you should have to do that as a consumer, but MAYBE (emphasis MAYBE) its the price of having a non-OEM inkset...thoughts?  





"Peter A. Klein" <pklein@...> wrote:                                  Thanks, everyone!  At least now I know I'm not crazy--about the ink 
 issue, anyway  :-)
 
 A little additional information.  The tech I talked to at MIS gave me 
 a link to this page:  http://www.inksupply.com/colorswabs.cfm
 
 This page has pictures of swabs they made using bulk inks on "Epson 
 Archival Matte," now called Epson Enhanced Matte.  He suggested that 
 I use Q-tips or equivalent to paint a swab of ink on EEM paper, and 
 compare them to the UT2 examples on the Web page.
 
 After fooling with a Q-tip and an old cartridge, I decided that I 
 didn't want to ruin the new cartridge and possibly my printer with 
 cotton lint.  But I found another way to check.  There is a file on 
 the MIS site called PurgePattern6 or something like that.  I've had 
 it for a while.  It is basically stripes of each pure ink color, 
 designed to clear the print head of old ink when changing carts, 
 using a cleaning cart, etc.
 
 I printed a 3-inch section of this file, and it does look like the 
 Light Magenta position (which holds the lightest gray ink) might be a 
 bit too light.  I'll talke to MIS again on Monday and see what they 
 say.
 
 As I have a 1280, if I want to print B&W with inks that don't fade, 
 third party seems the only way to go. I've had great results with MIS 
 inks up until now.  Are there better ways to do B&W now?  My main 
 concern is to find something that works and stick with it.  So far, 
 MIS UT2 has been it.  I am more interested in printing B&W pictures 
 than I am in endlessly tweaking my methods.  Since UT2 worked well, I 
 haven't really explored other alternatives in a couple of years. 
 Also, since I use Picture Window Pro, solutions that rely on Adobe 
 Photoshop-specific settings are of no use to me.
 
 --Peter
 
 
     
                       

 		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>...There is a file on 
>the MIS site called PurgePattern6 or something like that...

>I printed a 3-inch section of this file, and it does look like the 
>Light Magenta position (which holds the lightest gray ink) might be a 
>bit too light...

This is probably the easiest way to test for ink consistency in carts.  I
posted test files at http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/Test-files.htm that use
this method.  The scans are not accurate enough for good QC except to see if
the inks are in the correct positions.

The method I use for bulk inks that avoids the need to load any inks is at
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/Ink_QC.pdf

I have not been in touch with MIS since returning from the Sierras, but they
were about to invest in some expensive lab equipment to improve the
consistency of inks.  I'll send the thread relating to this to them to
further prod them into action.  The proprietor is very concerned with the
issue.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul:  It's good to know MIS is concerned about the issue and plans 
more extensive QC.  I contacted them about my problem with prints 
being too light after changing the gray ("color") cartridge.  They 
sent me a new cartridge with a batch number one greater than the 
problem cart.  I'm sending the problem cart back to them for testing. 

On an initial print of the purge6 file, the "light magenta" (lightest 
gray) ink seemed a smidge darker, but initial prints look the same as 
those from the "too light" cart they replaced.  I've since had a 
workload at work that precluded much printing at home, so I haven't 
looked into it further.  

Maddening, because I had just printed this picture with the old cart, 
and it was one of the best B&W prints I'd ever made.  All the subtle 
tone in the young woman's face was in the print, beautifully.

http://users.2alpha.com/~pklein/currentpics/80280012ShallWeDance.htm

Then I changed carts, and the new prints show almost no tone in her 
cheek, with the whole print lightened a bit overall.

Any suggestions?  Maybe add the color controls in the 1280 driver and 
tweak the sliders (which?) until things match the old prints?

This is very perplexing.  I've relied on MIS for a consistent 
product. Between their ink and your curves, I've had consistency for 
two years, and now, things are different.  It appears from this 
thread that I'm not the only one.  So I do hope they can solve this 
issue.

--Peter

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> >...There is a file on 
> >the MIS site called PurgePattern6 or something like that...
> 
> >I printed a 3-inch section of this file, and it does look like the 
> >Light Magenta position (which holds the lightest gray ink) might 
be a 
> >bit too light...
> 
> This is probably the easiest way to test for ink consistency in 
carts.  I
> posted test files at http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/Test-files.htm 
that use
> this method.  The scans are not accurate enough for good QC except 
to see if
> the inks are in the correct positions.
> 
> The method I use for bulk inks that avoids the need to load any 
inks is at
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/Ink_QC.pdf
> 
> I have not been in touch with MIS since returning from the Sierras, 
but they
> were about to invest in some expensive lab equipment to improve the
> consistency of inks.  I'll send the thread relating to this to them 
to
> further prod them into action.  The proprietor is very concerned 
with the

> issue.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Paul:  It's good to know MIS is concerned about the issue and plans 
more extensive QC.  I contacted them about my problem with prints 
being too light after changing the gray ("color") cartridge.  They 
sent me a new cartridge with a batch number one greater than the 
problem cart.  I'm sending the problem cart back to them for testing. 

On an initial print of the purge6 file, the "light magenta" (lightest 
gray) ink seemed a smidge darker, but initial prints look the same as 
those from the "too light" cart they replaced.  I've since had a 
workload at work that precluded much printing at home, so I haven't 
looked into it further.  

Maddening, because I had just printed this picture with the old cart, 
and it was one of the best B&W prints I'd ever made.  All the subtle 
tone in the young woman's face was in the print, beautifully.

http://users.2alpha.com/~pklein/currentpics/80280012ShallWeDance.htm

Then I changed carts, and the new prints show almost no tone in her 
cheek, with the whole print lightened a bit overall.

Any suggestions?  Maybe add the color controls in the 1280 driver and 
tweak the sliders (which?) until things match the old prints?

This is very perplexing.  I've relied on MIS for a consistent 
product. Between their ink and your curves, I've had consistency for 
two years, and now, things are different.  It appears from this 
thread that I'm not the only one.  So I do hope they can solve this 
issue.

--Peter

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> >...There is a file on 
> >the MIS site called PurgePattern6 or something like that...
> 
> >I printed a 3-inch section of this file, and it does look like the 
> >Light Magenta position (which holds the lightest gray ink) might 
be a 
> >bit too light...
> 
> This is probably the easiest way to test for ink consistency in 
carts.  I
> posted test files at http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/Test-files.htm 
that use
> this method.  The scans are not accurate enough for good QC except 
to see if
> the inks are in the correct positions.
> 
> The method I use for bulk inks that avoids the need to load any 
inks is at
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/Ink_QC.pdf
> 
> I have not been in touch with MIS since returning from the Sierras, 
but they
> were about to invest in some expensive lab equipment to improve the
> consistency of inks.  I'll send the thread relating to this to them 
to
> further prod them into action.  The proprietor is very concerned 
with the

> issue.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Peter,

>... problem with prints being too light after changing the
> gray ("color") cartridge...
>... new cartridge with a batch number one greater than
> the problem cart. ... but initial prints look the same as 
those from the "too light" cart they replaced...


> I had just printed this picture with the old cart, 
>and it was one of the best B&W prints I'd ever made. 
> All the subtle tone in the young woman's face was 
> in the print, beautifully.

>http://users.2alpha.com/~pklein/currentpics/80280012ShallWeDance.htm

Nice shot.

>Then I changed carts, and the new prints show almost no tone 
>in her cheek, with the whole print lightened a bit overall.

>Any suggestions?

Check the nozzles, of course.  If the cart is too far off, sending it back
to MIS may be appropriate.  It would be nice if there was an obvious
difference from the test print at
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/Test-files.htm 


> Maybe add the color controls in the 1280 driver and 
>tweak the sliders (which?) until things match the old prints?

If you are using color controls now, that might help.  If you are using the
curves workflow, the color controls will throw the system way off, including
making it considerably lighter.  I would use a curves adjustment layer in
Photoshop to compensate for the problem.  

>... I've relied on MIS for a consistent 
>product. Between their ink and your curves, I've had consistency for 
>two years, and now, things are different.

Hopefully the new QC equipment and mixing procedures will help.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Not having had any experience with a dedicated B&W inkset, it was really
interesting to look at the UT7-2200 jpg image and map the test strips to the
ink descriptions on the MIS site. Any chance you could put up something
similar up for the UT-3D set Paul?

Thanks,

Terry.

> -----Original Message-----
> On 
> Behalf Of Paul Roark

> Check the nozzles, of course.  If the cart is too far off, 
> sending it back to MIS may be appropriate.  It would be nice 
> if there was an obvious difference from the test print at 
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/Test-files.htm