Digital BW, The Print

Is the general feeling that the new Printfix Pro is a worthy puchase?
I did not get a lotta hits when doing a search on the product here.

Best Regards
Ginny

It is a product to be used with color printing; hence the few responses on
this list.

Do you currently have a custom made profile that works better than the
canned profile?  If so, then maybe try it and see.  If it does not work as
well you can return it within 30 days, IIRC.  If you don’t have a custom
profile, I’m not sure how you could evaluate the value of it.

Best regards,
John Moody

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
ginnylady33
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 5:30 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] PrintFix Pro

Is the general feeling that the new Printfix Pro is a worthy puchase?
I did not get a lotta hits when doing a search on the product here.

Best Regards
Ginny




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: John Moody

>Subject: RE: [Digital BW] PrintFix Pro


>It is a product to be used with color printing; hence the few responses on
>this list.

John and Ginny

I disagree that profiling is only relevant to color printing - short of an 
expensive rip, an accurately profiled printer is probably the best way to 
get perfect black and white. Greys are colours too!
As for the Printfix Pro, the main drawback is that each colour patch must be 
read individually, which is extremly tedious and time consuming . I use an 
X-Rite Pulse which scans the patches a row at a time, and I can read the 
700+ in about 10 minutes. I tried out a Printfix at the Focus Exhibition 
here in the UK yesterday, and I reckon the same job would take 40 - 50 
minutes - you have to be very precise. If you are only doing occasional 
profiles, this may not be a problem.

HTh

Brian Price




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" 
<brian@...> wrote:
> I disagree that profiling is only relevant to color printing - 
short of an 
> expensive rip, an accurately profiled printer is probably the best 
way to 
> get perfect black and white. Greys are colours too!
> As for the Printfix Pro, the main drawback is that each colour 
patch must be 
> read individually, which is extremly tedious and time consuming . I 
use an 
> X-Rite Pulse which scans the patches a row at a time, and I can 
read the 
> 700+ in about 10 minutes. I tried out a Printfix at the Focus 
Exhibition 
> here in the UK yesterday, and I reckon the same job would take 40 - 
50 
> minutes - you have to be very precise. If you are only doing 
occasional 
> profiles, this may not be a problem.
> 
> HTh
> 
> Brian Price
> 


I think you are about to be heckled.

Sorry, Brian but what is an x-rite pulse?
Ginny

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Brian"
<brian@...> wrote:
>
> >----- Original Message ----- 
> >From: John Moody
> 
> >Subject: RE: [Digital BW] PrintFix Pro
> 
> 
> >It is a product to be used with color printing; hence the few
responses on
> >this list.
> 
> John and Ginny
> 
> I disagree that profiling is only relevant to color printing - short
of an 
> expensive rip, an accurately profiled printer is probably the best
way to 
> get perfect black and white. Greys are colours too!
> As for the Printfix Pro, the main drawback is that each colour patch
must be 
> read individually, which is extremly tedious and time consuming . I
use an 
> X-Rite Pulse which scans the patches a row at a time, and I can read
the 
> 700+ in about 10 minutes. I tried out a Printfix at the Focus
Exhibition 

> here in the UK yesterday, and I reckon the same job would take 40 - 50 
> minutes - you have to be very precise. If you are only doing occasional 
> profiles, this may not be a problem.
> 
> HTh
> 
> Brian Price
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "ginnylady33" <
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] PrintFix Pro


Sorry, Brian but what is an x-rite pulse?
Ginny

Ginny
A more expensive (but easier to use) profiling tool - see
<http://www.chromix.com/colorgear/shop/productdetail.cxsa?toolid=1118&pid=1.gpulse&gclid=CL6Pt_PKu4MCFRBCPgodSRkHOA>

Brian

It's well worth the money. There is a yahoo group dedicated to it. You can find it here. colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com

Regards, Walt

-----Original Message-----
From: ginnylady33 [mailto:ginnylady33@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 12:30 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] PrintFix Pro

 Is the general feeling that the new Printfix Pro is a worthy puchase?
I did not get a lotta hits when doing a search on the product here.

Best Regards
Ginny






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In a message dated 2/28/06 8:11:04 AM, brian@... writes:


> I disagree that profiling is only relevant to color printing - short of an
> expensive rip, an accurately profiled printer is probably the best way to
> get perfect black and white. Greys are colours too!
> As for the Printfix Pro, the main drawback is that each colour patch must be
> read individually, which is extremly tedious and time consuming . I use an
> X-Rite Pulse which scans the patches a row at a time, and I can read the
> 700+ in about 10 minutes. I tried out a Printfix at the Focus Exhibition
> here in the UK yesterday, and I reckon the same job would take 40 - 50
> minutes - you have to be very precise. If you are only doing occasional
> profiles, this may not be a problem.
> 
> Well, I find your estimates and required precision to be a bit conservative; 
I read the most commonly used (225 patch) targets in under 5 minutes. And for 
difficult devices that actually need to have lots of patches thrown at them, 
it takes me under 20 minutes to read 729 patches. So its rather less of a 
drawback than it might seem.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" 
<brian@...> wrote:
>
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "ginnylady33" <
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] PrintFix Pro
> 
> 
> Sorry, Brian but what is an x-rite pulse?
> Ginny
> 
http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?Industry=1&Segment=10&ID=678

In a message dated 2/28/06 9:37:55 AM, dfaprinting@... writes:


> 
> I think you are about to be heckled.
> 

Well, I disagreed with his timing estimates for PrintFIX PRO measurements, 
but that was hardly heckling. And I would hope that list members, even those 
with a big committment to specialty B&W inks and RIPs, realize that many users 
don't want to go that far. Given what you can get from a good color profile on B&
W wuith the K3 printers, in terms of quality, screen to print match, visually 
controlled tinting, and low metamerism, I would say that the B&W via color 
profiles solution is not to be heckled, even if its not up at the pinnacle of 
fine art black and white printing.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 2/28/06 8:11:04 AM, brian@... writes:
> 

snip...

> > As for the Printfix Pro, the main drawback is that each colour
patch must be
> > read individually, which is extremly tedious and time consuming .
I use an
> > X-Rite Pulse which scans the patches a row at a time, and I can
read the
> > 700+ in about 10 minutes...

> > Well, I find your estimates and required precision to be a bit
conservative; 
> I read the most commonly used (225 patch) targets in under 5 minutes.


My measuring times were closer to David's. The other point here is
that a strip reader with associated profiling software is in a
different price range.
Since the original question was about the "worthiness" of the
purchase, I'd say it's impossible to beat or even match right now for
the money. The bundle with monitor profiling sounds like an even
better deal.
Of course you may be able to do more, faster, but that comes at a cost
you have to evaluate for yourself.
Tyler

Tyler,

   What do you mean by the 'bundle with monitoring profile'?
  Are they selling more than one version of the product?

Howard


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
<tyler@...> wrote:

>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@ wrote:
> >
> > 
> > In a message dated 2/28/06 8:11:04 AM, brian@ writes:
> > 
> 
> snip...
> 
> > > As for the Printfix Pro, the main drawback is that each colour
> patch must be
> > > read individually, which is extremly tedious and time consuming .
> I use an
> > > X-Rite Pulse which scans the patches a row at a time, and I can
> read the
> > > 700+ in about 10 minutes...
> 
> > > Well, I find your estimates and required precision to be a bit
> conservative; 
> > I read the most commonly used (225 patch) targets in under 5 minutes.
> 
> 
> My measuring times were closer to David's. The other point here is
> that a strip reader with associated profiling software is in a
> different price range.
> Since the original question was about the "worthiness" of the
> purchase, I'd say it's impossible to beat or even match right now for
> the money. The bundle with monitor profiling sounds like an even
> better deal.
> Of course you may be able to do more, faster, but that comes at a cost
> you have to evaluate for yourself.
> Tyler
>

In a message dated 2/28/06 10:39:39 AM, ginnylady33@... writes:


> Sorry, Brian but what is an x-rite pulse?
> 

Thats a telling question. Over a year ago X-Rite introduced their response to 
Gretag's EyeOne: the Pulse. It was such a big yawn that list searches on most 
lists with that keyword gets little or nothing. In fact, recently, when I 
purchased competing units for testing against PrintFIX PRO, the Pulse I purchased 
(from the largest single photographic store in the world) was left over from 
their original stocking order over a year earlier. If even B&H can't sell 
through a stocking order in a year, then there's something wrong. X-Rite has since 
come up with a new scheme, and acquired Gretag... it will be interesting to 
see if its the much loved EyeOne, or the newer, battery operated, slightly more 
accurate Pulse (whats a Pulse?), that stays in the lineup as the two merge.

It makes an interesting comparison to look at PrintFIX PRO, which has been 
shipping for a month, and is outselling all projections by a huge margin. What 
does PrintFIX PRO have, that the Pulse doesn't? Its not fancier. It doesn't 
have exotic prepress features. Its not an untetherable strip reader. But it does  
 offer easy to use software, excellent documentation... and a much, much 
lower price. I'd put   my   money on it being the money.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>  Is the general feeling that the new Printfix Pro is a worthy puchase?
> I did not get a lotta hits when doing a search on the product here.
> Ginny

If you are a commercial printer using many different papers, printers and ink combinations 
then I suggest purchasing an Eye-One or X-Rite's Pulse as the spectros read targets by 
scanning rows of patches. So building profiles will go faster. Cost about $1100.00 on up.

If you only have a handful of favorite papers to color profile – like myself – but want excellent 
profiles and the ability to tweak the profile -  then I'd recommend the PrintFIX PRO. Color 
targets are measured one patch at a time which sounds like it takes forever but goes fairly 
quickly. A 225 patch target takes me about five-six minutes to read. The 700+ target about 
20 minutes. Cost about $400.00+-

If you only want to use a spectro for QTR or IJC/OPM, run, don't walk to buy the PrintFIX PRO 
– that's what I did – as it reads LAB and Density values for input into both QTR and IJC/OPM. I 
can now build my own quad  "profiles" from scratch or tweak existing curves.

search for a pro suite, I believe you will find it.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786"
<how786@...> wrote:

>
>   Tyler,
> 
>    What do you mean by the 'bundle with monitoring profile'?
>   Are they selling more than one version of the product?
> 
> Howard

Hi CD

The price that B&H is asking for the unit just may be part of the 
problem?
It may also have something to do with the vague description they have 
for the product they are selling? I can't tell for sure what unit they 
are selling for sure for the price they are asking but I do know where 
to get it cheaper...

Larry

On Feb 28, 2006, at 11:56 AM, CDTobie@... wrote:

> In fact, recently, when I
> purchased competing units for testing against PrintFIX PRO, the Pulse 
> I purchased
> (from the largest single photographic store in the world) was left 
> over from
> their original stocking order over a year earlier. If even B&H can't 
> sell
> through a stocking order in a year, then there's something wrong.

This place has it cheaper than B&H.

http://www.digitalgraphicsresources.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=859

It seems to be the Pro Suite to me.
Howard

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Larry Wangelin
<lwangelin@...> wrote:

>
> Hi CD
> 
> The price that B&H is asking for the unit just may be part of the 
> problem?
> It may also have something to do with the vague description they have 
> for the product they are selling? I can't tell for sure what unit they 
> are selling for sure for the price they are asking but I do know where 
> to get it cheaper...
> 
> Larry
> 
> On Feb 28, 2006, at 11:56 AM, CDTobie@... wrote:
> 
> > In fact, recently, when I
> > purchased competing units for testing against PrintFIX PRO, the Pulse 
> > I purchased
> > (from the largest single photographic store in the world) was left 
> > over from
> > their original stocking order over a year earlier. If even B&H can't 
> > sell
> > through a stocking order in a year, then there's something wrong.
>

Oh, well....one hour after I placed my order at DHR who is $50 cheaper
than B&H for the Suite, I got the following email:

"At 4:00 pm EST this afternoon DGR was informed by ColorVision that
your drop shipped order promised for delivery to you by ColorVision
has been unexpectedly delayed.

Below is the text of the email we just received. As you will see, we
were informed that ColorVision will supply more information tomorrow
regarding this situation.

This matter is unacceptable to DGR and we regret that we will not have
more information until tomorrow.

We understand that you may wish to cancel your order with DGR. Of
course, you may keep the order until we know the ETA of your order.

Please accept our deepest regrets for this and please understand that
the delay that is completely out of the control of DGR.

Explanation from ColorVision:

...ColorVision ran into a immediate problem with the PrintFixPRO which
is why (your customers) have not received them...I will update you
tomorrow morning, but for now PrintFixPro & PrintFix Pro Suite are
considered backordered and ColorVision cannot drop ship any of these
orders immediately. Please advise your customers there has been an
unexpected backorder with ETA to be announced soon. 

Again, I thank you for your patience and will have more information as
soon as we receive an update, hopefully tomorrow.

Best Regards,

Customer Service"




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786"
<how786@...> wrote:
>
> This place has it cheaper than B&H.
> 
>
http://www.digitalgraphicsresources.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=859
> 
> It seems to be the Pro Suite to me.
> Howard
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m, Larry Wangelin
> <lwangelin@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi CD
> > 
> > The price that B&H is asking for the unit just may be part of the 
> > problem?
> > It may also have something to do with the vague description they have 
> > for the product they are selling? I can't tell for sure what unit
they 
> > are selling for sure for the price they are asking but I do know
where 
> > to get it cheaper...
> > 
> > Larry
> > 
> > On Feb 28, 2006, at 11:56 AM, CDTobie@ wrote:
> > 
> > > In fact, recently, when I
> > > purchased competing units for testing against PrintFIX PRO, the
Pulse 
> > > I purchased
> > > (from the largest single photographic store in the world) was left 
> > > over from
> > > their original stocking order over a year earlier. If even B&H
can't 

> > > sell
> > > through a stocking order in a year, then there's something wrong.
> >
>

Sorry, DGR, not DHR. Sorry for spamming this.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786"
<how786@...> wrote:
>
> Oh, well....one hour after I placed my order at DHR who is $50 cheaper
> than B&H for the Suite, I got the following email:
> 
> "At 4:00 pm EST this afternoon DGR was informed by ColorVision that
> your drop shipped order promised for delivery to you by ColorVision
> has been unexpectedly delayed.
> 
> Below is the text of the email we just received. As you will see, we
> were informed that ColorVision will supply more information tomorrow
> regarding this situation.
> 
> This matter is unacceptable to DGR and we regret that we will not have
> more information until tomorrow.
> 
> We understand that you may wish to cancel your order with DGR. Of
> course, you may keep the order until we know the ETA of your order.
> 
> Please accept our deepest regrets for this and please understand that
> the delay that is completely out of the control of DGR.
> 
> Explanation from ColorVision:
> 
> ...ColorVision ran into a immediate problem with the PrintFixPRO which
> is why (your customers) have not received them...I will update you
> tomorrow morning, but for now PrintFixPro & PrintFix Pro Suite are
> considered backordered and ColorVision cannot drop ship any of these
> orders immediately. Please advise your customers there has been an
> unexpected backorder with ETA to be announced soon. 
> 
> Again, I thank you for your patience and will have more information as
> soon as we receive an update, hopefully tomorrow.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Customer Service"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786"
> <how786@> wrote:
> >
> > This place has it cheaper than B&H.
> > 
> >
>
http://www.digitalgraphicsresources.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=859
> > 
> > It seems to be the Pro Suite to me.
> > Howard
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Larry Wangelin
> > <lwangelin@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi CD
> > > 
> > > The price that B&H is asking for the unit just may be part of the 
> > > problem?
> > > It may also have something to do with the vague description they
have 
> > > for the product they are selling? I can't tell for sure what unit
> they 
> > > are selling for sure for the price they are asking but I do know
> where 
> > > to get it cheaper...
> > > 
> > > Larry
> > > 
> > > On Feb 28, 2006, at 11:56 AM, CDTobie@ wrote:
> > > 
> > > > In fact, recently, when I
> > > > purchased competing units for testing against PrintFIX PRO, the
> Pulse 
> > > > I purchased
> > > > (from the largest single photographic store in the world) was
left 

> > > > over from
> > > > their original stocking order over a year earlier. If even B&H
> can't 
> > > > sell
> > > > through a stocking order in a year, then there's something wrong.
> > >
> >
>

In a message dated 2/28/06 7:21:46 PM, how786@... writes:


> Oh, well....one hour after I placed my order at DHR who is $50 cheaper
> than B&H for the Suite, I got the following email:
> 
> "At 4:00 pm EST this afternoon DGR was informed by ColorVision that
> your drop shipped order promised for delivery to you by ColorVision
> has been unexpectedly delayed.
> 

Yup... the demand for PrintFIX PRO has outstripped production. Catching up 
with initial demand was challenging, and now expanding production, without 
allowing quality to slip, is challenging as well. You don't want the accuracy of 
units to drop, as production is increased; so you are better off waiting for a 
unit, then getting one faster, at all costs...

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi gang:

I just checked the B&H website and the descriptions of the Printfix 
Pro and Printfix pro suite packages seemed quite clear AND 
illustrated as well.  The suite both pictured and described the 
Spyder 2 PRO, while the PRO package alone did not, this being the 
only difference.  I cannot comment on price, I suspect there will be 
a "settling out" period as supplies increase.

Jack Winberg

At 07:28 AM 3/1/2006, you wrote:
>Subject: Re: PrintFix Pro
>
>Hi CD
>
>The price that B&H is asking for the unit just may be part of the
>problem?
>It may also have something to do with the vague description they have
>for the product they are selling? I can't tell for sure what unit they
>are selling for sure for the price they are asking but I do know where
>to get it cheaper...
>
>Larry


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jack,
My original response was to the Pules System passages as indicated in 
my referenced reply, which is now snipped out.

Larry W.

On Mar 1, 2006, at 12:21 PM, Jack Winberg wrote:

> I just checked the B&H website and the descriptions of the Printfix
> Pro and Printfix pro suite packages seemed quite clear AND
> illustrated as well.  The suite both pictured and described the
> Spyder 2 PRO, while the PRO package alone did not, this being the
> only difference.  I cannot comment on price, I suspect there will be
> a "settling out" period as supplies increase.

I am curious if PrintFix Pro's intriguing extended greys feature works 
for any inkset?  I saw a mention of using it with UT-3D but I'm using a 
mixture of UT-R2 inks for variable tones as Clayton Jones outlined 
(http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn10.htm)  If I get PFP for color 
profiling it would be nice to also use it for a variable toned B&W set, 
too.

Also, PFP (not suite with Spyder2) is about $306 after $100 rebate from 
buy.com which seems reasonable.

In a message dated 6/9/07 9:19:17 PM, rsmith02@... writes:


> I am curious if PrintFix Pro's intriguing extended greys feature works
> for any inkset?  I saw a mention of using it with UT-3D but I'm using a
> mixture of UT-R2 inks for variable tones as Clayton Jones outlined
> (http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn10.htm)  If I get PFP for color
> profiling it would be nice to also use it for a variable toned B&W set,
> too.
> 

I have tested PrintFIX PRO 2 profiling (no extended grays needed with gray 
inks) with UT-7 but not with UT-2. In theory it should work, but without trying 
it, I can't say more than a "should work" prediction. Even Cone K6 and K7 
inksets prove to profile nicely with PFP2. With the UT-7s, it made as neutral a 
profile as the ink/paper combination would allow, but offers much less gamut to 
adjust within than the UT-3Ds offer, and the gamut is in quite tight a line, 
so moving the controls to tint within the inks gamut is a bit trickier than in 
the somewhat larger gamut of the UT-3Ds.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]