Digital BW, The Print

Mark,

I agee. As the 1280/90 was designed to work with DYE inks, it isn't the 
least bit surprising that it won't work properly with pigment inks, as you 
and others have found out. So many people just seem to think ink is ink!

It can take years of research to design an ink for a particular 
printer/paper combination, yet Joe Bloggs expects to be able to use a 
totally different ink on a totally different paper without any problems.

Bob Frost

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "mark_roth_505" <mark@...>


It is absolutely amazing to me that since I AND COUNTLESS OTHERS have
posted on this board, more than a lot of times, along with other
experienced users of this printer, what a piece of crap the 1280 has
turned out to be WITH PIGMENT INKS, that more and more people are
asking, "should I buy a 1280"...

OK, I'm changing my mind, folks. Go out and buy the frigging 1280, buy
the MIS inks, and go through the hell.

YES, the 1280 is perfect! BUY IT....BUY 5 OF F999ING THINGS, AND THEN
COME ON THIS BOARD AND ASK IF YOU SHOULD BUY ANOTHER ONE.

Especially when one ink is dye (soluble) and the other is little chunks of
solid pigment.  It's worth having a basic understanding of how a piezo print
head works.

http://www.epson.co.jp/e/technology/sankei_3.htm

> From: Bob Frost <bob@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 10:08:31 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Problems using Eboni Black only on 1280 for B&W
> prints
> 
> Mark,
> 
> I agee. As the 1280/90 was designed to work with DYE inks, it isn't the
> least bit surprising that it won't work properly with pigment inks, as you
> and others have found out. So many people just seem to think ink is ink!
> 
> It can take years of research to design an ink for a particular
> printer/paper combination, yet Joe Bloggs expects to be able to use a
> totally different ink on a totally different paper without any problems.
> 
> Bob Frost

Bob Frost wrote, in part:
 
> ... As the 1280/90 was designed to work with DYE inks, it isn't the
> least bit surprising that it won't work properly with pigment inks, as you
> and others have found out...

If the 1280-90 were the only samples of dye ink printers that we've used
with pigments, I'd have to agree that maybe dye printers ought to be avoided
for pigment ink use.  Some have great luck with the 1280-90, but my personal
experience is that it is the least reliable Epson I've used with MIS inks.
(Note that many of the 1280-90 problems relate to bad continuous flow
systems and carts, but I'm excluding that discussion here.) 

The 1280-90 problems, however, may not be representative of all Epson dye
printers.  My 3000 and 1160 lasted for years with pigments.  The 1160
finally died, but the 3000 was sold as is probably still pumping pigs with
good reliability.  The 1160 was also used by me as a test bed, where I even
printed with water-color pigments.  So, it had a tough -- but long -- life.
Many high-volume printers have used the 3000, 7000 and probably other dye
printers for years with pigment inks.

Now I'm using an R220 -- another printer designed for dyes -- with complete
reliability with MIS pigments.  

So, while I can imagine that Epson might use finer screens or passages in
the heads of printers designed for dyes as opposed to pigments, I suspect
the problem may be more unique to the 1280-90 than an across the board
problem with Epson dye printers.

Of course the bottom line is that with the third party inks one can simply
achieve better B&W and more lightfast prints for less money even if the
printers don't last as long.  The ink price difference is so dramatic that
it's cheaper to throw away a printer occasionally than pay Epson's prices.

But for those using the 1280-90 with Eboni, be sure to rinse the dyes off
the parking pad.  Eboni and dye are not compatible.  My experience with an
old 1280 and Eboni was that I had to clean the surface of the head off
routinely until I rinsed the dyes out of the parking pad.  Then the 1280
worked for about a year without trouble.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Dear Paul,

 Thanks for the most informative response. 
I have decided to upgrade my B&W printing to a 2400. I've got the
budget to do so. 
I wonder if you would compare the B&W print quality on the 2400 with
the stock Epson inks vs. 3rd party. If 3rd party (MIS?) would be a
significant upgrade, I'm wondering what set you recommend? (I had just
read an article by Clayton Jones speaking of the virtues of black only
printing.)
 I'd really appreciate your expert input.
  Thank you
  Ginny


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> Bob Frost wrote, in part:
>  
> > ... As the 1280/90 was designed to work with DYE inks, it isn't the
> > least bit surprising that it won't work properly with pigment
inks, as you
> > and others have found out...
> 
> If the 1280-90 were the only samples of dye ink printers that we've used
> with pigments, I'd have to agree that maybe dye printers ought to be
avoided
> for pigment ink use.  Some have great luck with the 1280-90, but my
personal
> experience is that it is the least reliable Epson I've used with MIS
inks.
> (Note that many of the 1280-90 problems relate to bad continuous flow
> systems and carts, but I'm excluding that discussion here.) 
> 
> The 1280-90 problems, however, may not be representative of all
Epson dye
> printers.  My 3000 and 1160 lasted for years with pigments.  The 1160
> finally died, but the 3000 was sold as is probably still pumping
pigs with
> good reliability.  The 1160 was also used by me as a test bed, where
I even
> printed with water-color pigments.  So, it had a tough -- but long
-- life.
> Many high-volume printers have used the 3000, 7000 and probably
other dye
> printers for years with pigment inks.
> 
> Now I'm using an R220 -- another printer designed for dyes -- with
complete
> reliability with MIS pigments.  
> 
> So, while I can imagine that Epson might use finer screens or
passages in
> the heads of printers designed for dyes as opposed to pigments, I
suspect
> the problem may be more unique to the 1280-90 than an across the board
> problem with Epson dye printers.
> 
> Of course the bottom line is that with the third party inks one can
simply
> achieve better B&W and more lightfast prints for less money even if the
> printers don't last as long.  The ink price difference is so
dramatic that
> it's cheaper to throw away a printer occasionally than pay Epson's
prices.
> 
> But for those using the 1280-90 with Eboni, be sure to rinse the
dyes off
> the parking pad.  Eboni and dye are not compatible.  My experience
with an

> old 1280 and Eboni was that I had to clean the surface of the head off
> routinely until I rinsed the dyes out of the parking pad.  Then the 1280
> worked for about a year without trouble.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Ginny,

You wrote, in part:
 
> ... I have decided to upgrade my B&W printing to a 2400...
> I wonder if you would compare the B&W print quality on the 2400 with
> the stock Epson inks vs. 3rd party. If 3rd party (MIS?) would be a
> significant upgrade, I'm wondering what set you recommend? ...

There is no dedicated B&W inkset for the 2400 that I'm aware of.  I may get
to it later, but my current project is aimed at taking cheaper printers up
to and beyond what the 2400 can do.  (Providing competition to the big guys
and pushing the envelope is what I like to do.)

The 2400 is an excellent printer right out of the box.  MIS has a 2400 color
inkset (MIS "K4") that is, of course, much cheaper than the Epson k3 inks if
bulk inks are used.  However, I don't think I would consider it
significantly better.  I have not done a head to head test of the Epson k3
and MIS k4 inksets. 

My tests that give the MIS inks an edge are with the B&W inksets.  There the
reasons appear to be mostly that they use fewer color inks (and no magenta
or yellow), and the carbon is mixed with the colors.  That way when the
colors fade, the carbon is still underneath them to provide the density (but
not the color).  That is, the blended, dedicated B&W inks, according to my
last test, tend to shift color just like the 2400 ABW mode inks (when MIS
inks are used in both), but the density does not drop as much.  

In other tests with Epson UC k2 inks in a blended B&W mix identical to the
MIS inks, the MIS inks did better if the prints were not sprayed, but they
were the same when the prints had Premier Art Print Shield on them.  This
suggests the MIS inks' binder acts as a coating in and of itself, whereas
the Epson base does not have a binder, relying on the acrylic coatings to
hold the inks to the paper.

I generally don't test the color inksets.  However, in individual ink tests
I do to determine what inks I'll use in my mixes, the k3 M did better than
the MIS k4 M.  I won't use either, however, because the MIS R800 Blue stays
in suspension in my tests and mixes better than either of the magentas.

So, bottom line, I can't say one color inkset is better than the other.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Thanks everyone for all the information on using MIS inks.  However, all
this discussion leaves me with question for the Epson 1270's.  Do the 1270's
have the same problem as the 1280 with the pigment inks?  After reading
about how well the MIS inks worked on Black and Whites, I just bought a set
of the Ultra Tone 2.  I spoke with MIS technical support, and they said it
would work fine with my printer as long as I went with a 1280 driver.  Is
this completely true?  Am I going to have clogged print heads, beyond what
normal cleaning will take care of?  Also, I have read about putting the
Windex on parking pad.  Is this the cotton pad with the multiple colors of
ink on it at the left of the printer?  Also, are you supposed to put a few
drops on Windex or cleaner under the carts after use?   In other words, do
you pull out the carts and place in a few drops of Windex and then
reinstall.  Sorry, if this has been covered before.  I am not the brightest
bulb on the tree, but I am learning fast.  

 

My needs for photography are great and my budget is small.  Right now is not
a good time to replace a printer.  Also, I read about using Windex.  Is this
the run of the mill Windex or is it the non-drip kind?

 

Any advice you would have greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

 

George Payne

Cajun Images

 

www.cajunimages.com

 

  _____  

From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...] 
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 10:36 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Problems using Eboni Black only on 1280 for
B&W prints

 

Bob Frost wrote, in part:

> ... As the 1280/90 was designed to work with DYE inks, it isn't the
> least bit surprising that it won't work properly with pigment inks, as you
> and others have found out...

If the 1280-90 were the only samples of dye ink printers that we've used
with pigments, I'd have to agree that maybe dye printers ought to be avoided
for pigment ink use.  Some have great luck with the 1280-90, but my personal
experience is that it is the least reliable Epson I've used with MIS inks.
(Note that many of the 1280-90 problems relate to bad continuous flow
systems and carts, but I'm excluding that discussion here.) 

The 1280-90 problems, however, may not be representative of all Epson dye
printers.  My 3000 and 1160 lasted for years with pigments.  The 1160
finally died, but the 3000 was sold as is probably still pumping pigs with
good reliability.  The 1160 was also used by me as a test bed, where I even
printed with water-color pigments.  So, it had a tough -- but long -- life.
Many high-volume printers have used the 3000, 7000 and probably other dye
printers for years with pigment inks.

Now I'm using an R220 -- another printer designed for dyes -- with complete
reliability with MIS pigments.  

So, while I can imagine that Epson might use finer screens or passages in
the heads of printers designed for dyes as opposed to pigments, I suspect
the problem may be more unique to the 1280-90 than an across the board
problem with Epson dye printers.

Of course the bottom line is that with the third party inks one can simply
achieve better B&W and more lightfast prints for less money even if the
printers don't last as long.  The ink price difference is so dramatic that
it's cheaper to throw away a printer occasionally than pay Epson's prices.

But for those using the 1280-90 with Eboni, be sure to rinse the dyes off
the parking pad.  Eboni and dye are not compatible.  My experience with an
old 1280 and Eboni was that I had to clean the surface of the head off
routinely until I rinsed the dyes out of the parking pad.  Then the 1280
worked for about a year without trouble.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I used the MIS inks with a 1280 for several years (first the Variable Mix, 
later UT2) and they worked fine. I never experienced the clogging others 
have talked about. What I did experience was a large batch of nks that 
apparently had been improperly mixed so that all my prints began coming out 
with a magenta tint. After wrestling with that problem to no avail for about 
six months I gave up and bought a 2200.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Payne" <mail@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 7:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Problems using Eboni Black only on 1280 for 
B&W prints


Thanks everyone for all the information on using MIS inks.  However, all
this discussion leaves me with question for the Epson 1270's.  Do the 1270's
have the same problem as the 1280 with the pigment inks?  After reading
about how well the MIS inks worked on Black and Whites, I just bought a set
of the Ultra Tone 2.  I spoke with MIS technical support, and they said it
would work fine with my printer as long as I went with a 1280 driver.  Is
this completely true?  Am I going to have clogged print heads, beyond what
normal cleaning will take care of?  Also, I have read about putting the
Windex on parking pad.  Is this the cotton pad with the multiple colors of
ink on it at the left of the printer?  Also, are you supposed to put a few
drops on Windex or cleaner under the carts after use?   In other words, do
you pull out the carts and place in a few drops of Windex and then
reinstall.  Sorry, if this has been covered before.  I am not the brightest
bulb on the tree, but I am learning fast.



My needs for photography are great and my budget is small.  Right now is not
a good time to replace a printer.  Also, I read about using Windex.  Is this
the run of the mill Windex or is it the non-drip kind?



Any advice you would have greatly appreciated.



Thanks,





George Payne

Cajun Images



www.cajunimages.com



  _____

From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...]
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 10:36 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Problems using Eboni Black only on 1280 for
B&W prints



Bob Frost wrote, in part:

> ... As the 1280/90 was designed to work with DYE inks, it isn't the
> least bit surprising that it won't work properly with pigment inks, as you
> and others have found out...

If the 1280-90 were the only samples of dye ink printers that we've used
with pigments, I'd have to agree that maybe dye printers ought to be avoided
for pigment ink use.  Some have great luck with the 1280-90, but my personal
experience is that it is the least reliable Epson I've used with MIS inks.
(Note that many of the 1280-90 problems relate to bad continuous flow
systems and carts, but I'm excluding that discussion here.)

The 1280-90 problems, however, may not be representative of all Epson dye
printers.  My 3000 and 1160 lasted for years with pigments.  The 1160
finally died, but the 3000 was sold as is probably still pumping pigs with
good reliability.  The 1160 was also used by me as a test bed, where I even
printed with water-color pigments.  So, it had a tough -- but long -- life.
Many high-volume printers have used the 3000, 7000 and probably other dye
printers for years with pigment inks.

Now I'm using an R220 -- another printer designed for dyes -- with complete
reliability with MIS pigments.

So, while I can imagine that Epson might use finer screens or passages in
the heads of printers designed for dyes as opposed to pigments, I suspect
the problem may be more unique to the 1280-90 than an across the board
problem with Epson dye printers.

Of course the bottom line is that with the third party inks one can simply
achieve better B&W and more lightfast prints for less money even if the
printers don't last as long.  The ink price difference is so dramatic that
it's cheaper to throw away a printer occasionally than pay Epson's prices.

But for those using the 1280-90 with Eboni, be sure to rinse the dyes off
the parking pad.  Eboni and dye are not compatible.  My experience with an
old 1280 and Eboni was that I had to clean the surface of the head off
routinely until I rinsed the dyes out of the parking pad.  Then the 1280
worked for about a year without trouble.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com





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I just ran an entire set of UT2 on my 1280. Didn't really last
long...dunno what was up with that.

BUT, I had no clogs. I did, however, (and would always reccommend when
changing brands of ink) flush the printer with cleaning carts. (Note:
you can refill cleaning carts with windex, so you should only be
buying one set...i didnt realize this at first). 

My printer did have some minor problems under the heads (before
installing the UT2, this was from regular dye ink), I simply folded
over a paper towel til it was thin enough to fit in the track under
the print heads, soaked the paper towel in windex, and moved the heads
over the towel. It may help to put the heads in the higher position
for thicker paper, then when ever the towel, lower them. Let it sit
there for a little bit, it'll soak a little and remove stubborn dried
ink. Don't let it sit too long because the one way valves are open if
you have the carts in and it will draw ink out! Also note, don't force
the carriage over the towel, make a thinner one if it's hard to push
over because you could cause damage to the underside. It's probably
better to make a thin towel, put the carriage in the up position and
move it over (probably not touching the towel at this point much at
all if at all) and then putting the carriage into the down position
for thinner paper. 

you may be surprised and find some old colors from other ink sets that
you didn't think would be there still :) You may also find a  big
black mess. when you start to see where each head is leaving distinct
and appropriate colors, then you know you're pretty much clean under
there.

and this is my general cleaning procedure everytime I switch ink sets.
I use flush carts (never used those things that force fluid through
the heads with pressure, I don't want to break the nozzles). and then
I run the carriage over a windex soaked towel a few times. It really
does a good job cleaning.

I've never had any problems with clogging and I've used epson's dye
inks, cheap 3rd party dye inks, lyson quad tone inks, UT2 inks,
Mediastreet G4 inks, and I'm sure I'm missing some other brand. 

I love my 1280 and will probably always keep it because while I
thought it was expensive....it's really cheap. Epson didn't phase out
old technology replacing it with new technology...they kept old
technology at the same price and just put in new technology are a
retarded high price.

All this BW and fine art printing I guess caught on and Epson realized
they could gouge people for it.

To be honest, I love my 1280 and the 3000 I found in the trash which
I'm eager to see what I can do with. 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "George Payne"
<mail@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks everyone for all the information on using MIS inks.  However, all
> this discussion leaves me with question for the Epson 1270's.  Do
the 1270's
> have the same problem as the 1280 with the pigment inks?  After reading
> about how well the MIS inks worked on Black and Whites, I just
bought a set
> of the Ultra Tone 2.  I spoke with MIS technical support, and they
said it
> would work fine with my printer as long as I went with a 1280
driver.  Is
> this completely true?  Am I going to have clogged print heads,
beyond what
> normal cleaning will take care of?  Also, I have read about putting the
> Windex on parking pad.  Is this the cotton pad with the multiple
colors of
> ink on it at the left of the printer?  Also, are you supposed to put
a few
> drops on Windex or cleaner under the carts after use?   In other
words, do
> you pull out the carts and place in a few drops of Windex and then
> reinstall.  Sorry, if this has been covered before.  I am not the
brightest
> bulb on the tree, but I am learning fast.  
> 
>  
> 
> My needs for photography are great and my budget is small.  Right
now is not
> a good time to replace a printer.  Also, I read about using Windex.
 Is this
> the run of the mill Windex or is it the non-drip kind?
> 
>  
> 
> Any advice you would have greatly appreciated.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> George Payne
> 
> Cajun Images
> 
>  
> 
> www.cajunimages.com
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...] 
> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 10:36 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Problems using Eboni Black only on
1280 for
> B&W prints
> 
>  
> 
> Bob Frost wrote, in part:
> 
> > ... As the 1280/90 was designed to work with DYE inks, it isn't the
> > least bit surprising that it won't work properly with pigment
inks, as you
> > and others have found out...
> 
> If the 1280-90 were the only samples of dye ink printers that we've used
> with pigments, I'd have to agree that maybe dye printers ought to be
avoided
> for pigment ink use.  Some have great luck with the 1280-90, but my
personal
> experience is that it is the least reliable Epson I've used with MIS
inks.
> (Note that many of the 1280-90 problems relate to bad continuous flow
> systems and carts, but I'm excluding that discussion here.) 
> 
> The 1280-90 problems, however, may not be representative of all
Epson dye
> printers.  My 3000 and 1160 lasted for years with pigments.  The 1160
> finally died, but the 3000 was sold as is probably still pumping
pigs with
> good reliability.  The 1160 was also used by me as a test bed, where
I even
> printed with water-color pigments.  So, it had a tough -- but long
-- life.
> Many high-volume printers have used the 3000, 7000 and probably
other dye
> printers for years with pigment inks.
> 
> Now I'm using an R220 -- another printer designed for dyes -- with
complete
> reliability with MIS pigments.  
> 
> So, while I can imagine that Epson might use finer screens or
passages in
> the heads of printers designed for dyes as opposed to pigments, I
suspect
> the problem may be more unique to the 1280-90 than an across the board
> problem with Epson dye printers.
> 
> Of course the bottom line is that with the third party inks one can
simply
> achieve better B&W and more lightfast prints for less money even if the
> printers don't last as long.  The ink price difference is so
dramatic that
> it's cheaper to throw away a printer occasionally than pay Epson's
prices.
> 
> But for those using the 1280-90 with Eboni, be sure to rinse the
dyes off
> the parking pad.  Eboni and dye are not compatible.  My experience
with an
> old 1280 and Eboni was that I had to clean the surface of the head off
> routinely until I rinsed the dyes out of the parking pad.  Then the 1280
> worked for about a year without trouble.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
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> they are often being updated.
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Owner and
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> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  OWNER AND
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>

> I just ran an entire set of UT2 on my 1280. Didn't really last
> long...dunno what was up with that.

If the carts are the spongeless ones, be sure the stoppers are sealing.  Ink
can run out of the carts if air is leaking in.

> Note: you can refill cleaning carts with windex, ...

I've heard the ammonia in the Windex might damage the interior of the head
if left there very long.

>  ...
> I love my 1280 and will probably always keep it because while I
> thought it was expensive....it's really cheap...

It's good to hear the success stories with the 1280, because it is the
cheapest new 13" printer we have available.  

> ... and the 3000 I found in the trash ...
> I'm eager to see what I can do with.

If the heads are not shot, I have partitioning curves for the 3000 that can
control the MIS UT-FS/N type inks.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Yea, the 3000 is in perfect working condition.
It was actually in a yard sale the  day before with a $15 tag on it. I
saw it, stopped, saw the guy who was putting it out and he said take
it. So I did. Had ink in it that was almost 4 years old. I was like
crap. But to my surprise no clogs, nothing. Works.

I have 3rd party replacement dye ink in it now, but I'm left to wonder
what I can do with it and how I can make the most use out of it.

I imagine due to the resolution, it's only going to be best suited for
my graphic design proofs, and maybe some large prints where you aren't
close up enough to see the dots.

Does anyone still use a 3000 for fine art/photographic prints for
display??

Any advice on those curves, inks, etc. would be great. Thanks.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> > I just ran an entire set of UT2 on my 1280. Didn't really last
> > long...dunno what was up with that.
> 
> If the carts are the spongeless ones, be sure the stoppers are
sealing.  Ink
> can run out of the carts if air is leaking in.
> 
> > Note: you can refill cleaning carts with windex, ...
> 
> I've heard the ammonia in the Windex might damage the interior of
the head
> if left there very long.
> 
> >  ...
> > I love my 1280 and will probably always keep it because while I
> > thought it was expensive....it's really cheap...
> 
> It's good to hear the success stories with the 1280, because it is the
> cheapest new 13" printer we have available.  
> 
> > ... and the 3000 I found in the trash ...
> > I'm eager to see what I can do with.
> 
> If the heads are not shot, I have partitioning curves for the 3000
that can

> control the MIS UT-FS/N type inks.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

George,

I use the MIS inkset UT2 in my Epson 1280 and have had little 
trouble with clogs as long as I use it daily. Some have said just 
cutting it on works for them, because just cutting it on causes some 
activity that keeps the ink moving through the head enough no clogs 
can form. As far as using the 1280 driver, just download the latest 
version from Epson's website in the US and install it to replace the 
1270 one that came with the printer. I hope this info helps some, 
because the 1280 is a good printer for MIS inks usage. Another 
option is Roy Harrington's QuadToneRip (www.quadtonerip.com) which 
replaces the Epson driver with its own printer driver with the QTR 
software package. 

Your friend in Photography,

Johnny




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "George Payne" 
<mail@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks everyone for all the information on using MIS inks.  
However, all
> this discussion leaves me with question for the Epson 1270's.  Do 
the 1270's
> have the same problem as the 1280 with the pigment inks?  After 
reading
> about how well the MIS inks worked on Black and Whites, I just 
bought a set
> of the Ultra Tone 2.  I spoke with MIS technical support, and they 
said it
> would work fine with my printer as long as I went with a 1280 
driver.  Is
> this completely true?  Am I going to have clogged print heads, 
beyond what
> normal cleaning will take care of?  Also, I have read about 
putting the
> Windex on parking pad.  Is this the cotton pad with the multiple 
colors of
> ink on it at the left of the printer?  Also, are you supposed to 
put a few
> drops on Windex or cleaner under the carts after use?   In other 
words, do
> you pull out the carts and place in a few drops of Windex and then
> reinstall.  Sorry, if this has been covered before.  I am not the 
brightest
> bulb on the tree, but I am learning fast.  
> 
>  
> 
> My needs for photography are great and my budget is small.  Right 
now is not
> a good time to replace a printer.  Also, I read about using 
Windex.  Is this

> the run of the mill Windex or is it the non-drip kind?
> 
>  
> 
> Any advice you would have greatly appreciated.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> George Payne
> 
> Cajun Images
> 
>  
> 
> www.cajunimages.com
> 
>  
> 
>

Hi,
If you are shooting 35mm, you won't see any dots that aren't caused by
grain on anything 8x10 on up when using B&W quad inks. Go to Paul
Rourk's site for a wealth of information and recommendations on
inks,techniques and papers to use. Yes you can make very fine display
prints with an old 3000. It has some very nice attributes including
being difficult to clog rather than sensitive to clogging. It also
provides a very high d'max on many matt papers compared to those being
reported from some of the newer printers. I routinely get in the
1.80-1.90 range on several different papers using a program called QTR
to drive the printer with a VM type quad ink set. On a paper like Red
River Ultra Pro Satin or Epson 41141 you can get upwards of 2.00 and
2.30 respectively though you would want to make larger prints with these.

It's disadvantages are mainly that some of the printers don't like
thick papers(eg: over 250gm or so) and that you might get a nice nap
in waiting for a print of any size to finish. Done properly I doubt
you would have any quarrel with your results though.

If you should decide it's just not "modern enough" let me know, I'd be
happy to have a spare one. I had to pay for mine you lucky dog you :-)

Regards
Duane


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tmaiaroto"
<tom@...> wrote:

>
> Yea, the 3000 is in perfect working condition.
> It was actually in a yard sale the  day before with a $15 tag on it. I
> saw it, stopped, saw the guy who was putting it out and he said take
> it. So I did. Had ink in it that was almost 4 years old. I was like
> crap. But to my surprise no clogs, nothing. Works.
> 
> I have 3rd party replacement dye ink in it now, but I'm left to wonder
> what I can do with it and how I can make the most use out of it.
> 
> I imagine due to the resolution, it's only going to be best suited for
> my graphic design proofs, and maybe some large prints where you aren't
> close up enough to see the dots.
> 
> Does anyone still use a 3000 for fine art/photographic prints for
> display??
> 
> Any advice on those curves, inks, etc. would be great. Thanks.
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@> wrote:
> >
> > > I just ran an entire set of UT2 on my 1280. Didn't really last
> > > long...dunno what was up with that.
> > 
> > If the carts are the spongeless ones, be sure the stoppers are
> sealing.  Ink
> > can run out of the carts if air is leaking in.
> > 
> > > Note: you can refill cleaning carts with windex, ...
> > 
> > I've heard the ammonia in the Windex might damage the interior of
> the head
> > if left there very long.
> > 
> > >  ...
> > > I love my 1280 and will probably always keep it because while I
> > > thought it was expensive....it's really cheap...
> > 
> > It's good to hear the success stories with the 1280, because it is the
> > cheapest new 13" printer we have available.  
> > 
> > > ... and the 3000 I found in the trash ...
> > > I'm eager to see what I can do with.
> > 
> > If the heads are not shot, I have partitioning curves for the 3000
> that can
> > control the MIS UT-FS/N type inks.
> > 
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
>