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Problems using Eboni Black only on 1280 for B&W prints

Problems using Eboni Black only on 1280 for B&W prints

2006-02-03 by ginnylady33

I'm new to this forum, so greetings to all. My main printer is an
Epson R 1800. A friend suggested that I try using the MIS Black carts
in my older 1280. I bought the inkset and, for now, prefer the black
only prints with Eboni Black. (I'm referring to B&W prints)
 However, I am experiencing frequent clogging of my heads requiring
head cleaning often. I'm not sure why this is occuring or what the
'cure' is. 
 Is this common when using alternative inksets? These are cartridges
bought from MIS not ones I have refilled. 
 In printing a portrait, there is a thin white line appearing
horizontally about 3/8 inch from the top and bottom of the print. It
is always in the same place and it does NOT appear when I make the
very same print on my 1800.
  It has been frustrating and I am tempted to return to my 1800 for
B&W prints since I had no clogging issues at all with the Epson inks.
(Though I must admit I prefer the 'look' and feel of the 1280 B&W prints.)
  Thanks
  Ginny

Re: Problems using Eboni Black only on 1280 for B&W prints

2006-02-04 by Steven Karafyllakis

Hi Ginny;

It unfortunately was/is quite common for the 1280 to need more 
frequent cleaning cycles, though I'm puzzled by the thin white line. 
I went throughseveral 1280s, finally giving up and moving on to 
printers that were made for pigments. I also have an R1800, and 
while it has its own problems, it is much easier to keep running 
than the 1280.

You say you prefer the 1280 B&W to the R1800-how are you getting 
black-only out of the R1800, are you using QTR?

Steve Karafyllakis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ginnylady33" 
<ginnylady33@...> wrote:
>
>  I'm new to this forum, so greetings to all. My main printer is an
> Epson R 1800. A friend suggested that I try using the MIS Black 
carts
> in my older 1280. I bought the inkset and, for now, prefer the 
black
> only prints with Eboni Black. (I'm referring to B&W prints)
>  However, I am experiencing frequent clogging of my heads requiring
> head cleaning often. I'm not sure why this is occuring or what the
> 'cure' is. 
>  Is this common when using alternative inksets? These are 
cartridges
> bought from MIS not ones I have refilled. 
>  In printing a portrait, there is a thin white line appearing
> horizontally about 3/8 inch from the top and bottom of the print. 
It
> is always in the same place and it does NOT appear when I make the
> very same print on my 1800.
>   It has been frustrating and I am tempted to return to my 1800 for
> B&W prints since I had no clogging issues at all with the Epson 
inks.
> (Though I must admit I prefer the 'look' and feel of the 1280 B&W 
prints.)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>   Thanks
>   Ginny
>

Re: Problems using Eboni Black only on 1280 for B&W prints

2006-02-04 by ginnylady33

Thanks for your comments Steve.  
I'm printing B&W on the 1800 with the std. Epson inkset. I've not used
any third party inks.
 I'm ready to give up on the 1280 and wondering how the 2400 would be.
How do prints compare with what my 1800 does? Is the 2400 more
'friendly' to third party inks like MIS? Does it use gloss optimizer
on the color glossy prints to hide bronzing? (I had a 2200 and the
bronzing was an issue on high gloss prints.)
  Thanks for your help
  Ginny

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven
Karafyllakis" <stevekphoto@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi Ginny;
> 
> It unfortunately was/is quite common for the 1280 to need more 
> frequent cleaning cycles, though I'm puzzled by the thin white line. 
> I went throughseveral 1280s, finally giving up and moving on to 
> printers that were made for pigments. I also have an R1800, and 
> while it has its own problems, it is much easier to keep running 
> than the 1280.
> 
> You say you prefer the 1280 B&W to the R1800-how are you getting 
> black-only out of the R1800, are you using QTR?
> 
> Steve Karafyllakis
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ginnylady33" 
> <ginnylady33@> wrote:
> >
> >  I'm new to this forum, so greetings to all. My main printer is an
> > Epson R 1800. A friend suggested that I try using the MIS Black 
> carts
> > in my older 1280. I bought the inkset and, for now, prefer the 
> black
> > only prints with Eboni Black. (I'm referring to B&W prints)
> >  However, I am experiencing frequent clogging of my heads requiring
> > head cleaning often. I'm not sure why this is occuring or what the
> > 'cure' is. 
> >  Is this common when using alternative inksets? These are 
> cartridges
> > bought from MIS not ones I have refilled. 
> >  In printing a portrait, there is a thin white line appearing
> > horizontally about 3/8 inch from the top and bottom of the print. 
> It
> > is always in the same place and it does NOT appear when I make the
> > very same print on my 1800.
> >   It has been frustrating and I am tempted to return to my 1800 for
> > B&W prints since I had no clogging issues at all with the Epson 
> inks.
> > (Though I must admit I prefer the 'look' and feel of the 1280 B&W 
> prints.)
> >   Thanks
> >   Ginny
> >
>

Re: Problems using Eboni Black only on 1280 for B&W prints

2006-02-04 by Steven Karafyllakis

Ginny;


 
> I'm printing B&W on the 1800 with the std. Epson inkset.
>I've not used
> any third party inks.

So you're printing with the Epson driver as well, which means it is 
trying to synthesize B&W from all the color inks. Unless you have a 
custom color profile made for each paper you want to use, this will 
never work well.
>  I'm ready to give up on the 1280 and wondering how the 2400 would 
be.
> How do prints compare with what my 1800 does? 

The R1800 is theoretically capable of matching the 2400 prints, but 
in order to do it you have to put at least two more gray inks in it, 
and learn to control them with QTR or another RIP. This means you're 
giving up color capabilty. 

The next best thing is to replace the gloss cart with a light black, 
and go 2K, again with QTR or another RIP. The gloss with the MIS 
inks at least makes no real difference, since the bronzing is no 
longer an issue with either the MIS or the Epson K3 inks.

Is the 2400 more
> 'friendly' to third party inks like MIS? 

Either machine handles the MIS inks without any problem.
The real advantage to the 2400 is that it has 3 shades of black, and 
a built-in RIP (ABW mode) so it is capable of doing excellent B&W 
out of the box. Its only major disadvantage is that you have to 
swith matte-black and photo-black carts if you want to change papers.
But all things considered, it is the better machine, unless you're 
really stuck on being able to use both glossy and matte papers 
without switching inks.

Hope this helps

Steve Karafyllakis

Re: Problems using Eboni Black only on 1280 for B&W prints

2006-02-04 by mark_roth_505

It is absolutely amazing to me that since I AND COUNTLESS OTHERS have 
posted on this board, more than a lot of times, along with other 
experienced users of this printer, what a piece of crap the 1280 has 
turned out to be WITH PIGMENT INKS, that more and more people are 
asking, "should I buy a 1280"...

OK, I'm changing my mind, folks. Go out and buy the frigging 1280, buy 
the MIS inks, and go through the hell.

YES, the 1280 is perfect! BUY IT....BUY 5 OF F999ING THINGS, AND THEN 
COME ON THIS BOARD AND ASK IF YOU SHOULD BUY ANOTHER ONE.

Re: Problems using Eboni Black only on 1280 for B&W prints

2006-02-04 by Clayton Jones

Hello Mark,

>YES, the 1280 is perfect! BUY IT....BUY 5 OF F999ING THINGS, AND THEN 
>COME ON THIS BOARD AND ASK IF YOU SHOULD BUY ANOTHER ONE.

LOL!  There, there, it's going to be ok.  Wouldn't you like to have a
nice cup of tea? [ggg].

Thanks for a good laugh, made my evening.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Re: Problems using Eboni Black only on 1280 for B&W prints

2006-02-04 by William John Smith

I have been using a 1280 for the last three years with MIS pigments  
inks with very
little trouble.  An occasional clogging, no big thing.  One just has  
to know
what they are doing thats all.




> Message: 24
>    Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 05:10:01 -0000
>    From: "mark_roth_505" <mark@...>
> Subject: Re: Problems using Eboni Black only on 1280 for B&W prints
>
> It is absolutely amazing to me that since I AND COUNTLESS OTHERS have
> posted on this board, more than a lot of times, along with other
> experienced users of this printer, what a piece of crap the 1280 has
> turned out to be WITH PIGMENT INKS, that more and more people are
> asking, "should I buy a 1280"...
>
> OK, I'm changing my mind, folks. Go out and buy the frigging 1280, buy
> the MIS inks, and go through the hell.
>
> YES, the 1280 is perfect! BUY IT....BUY 5 OF F999ING THINGS, AND THEN
> COME ON THIS BOARD AND ASK IF YOU SHOULD BUY ANOTHER ONE.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Problems using Eboni Black only on 1280 for B&W prints

2006-02-04 by kenstrain2000

>  However, I am experiencing frequent clogging of my heads requiring
> head cleaning often. I'm not sure why this is occuring or what the
> 'cure' is. 
You did not give very precise info about the type of carts etc. So the
following is general advice based mostly on personal experience.

I used 1290/1270 printers for a few years.  Eboni worked very well in
two (one I used for for colour on matt paper -CIS, and one I use for
FS-N or matt/gloss paper swapping the black - refills). I had the
following problems 

random, occassional "clogging" (almost always air), mostly on the T009
cart side, rarely on the T007 side -  retrospectively I suspect
poorly-fitting carts were admitting air where the cart meets the printhead

increasing problems with foam in CIS and refill carts with sponges,
after ~1 year (CIS) or about 10 refills it was necessary to change the
carts.   It would be easy to make foam and get problems if you filled
the eboni cart too fast - if there is much foam suspect that and try a
new cart.  Eboni seems to foam more than most inks (that I've tried).

after changing to spongeless carts (MIS original version) I had
several "catestrophic" leaks where all the ink from the cart would
flow out over a day or three.  This was due to a combination of design
and manufacturing quality of the carts.  Apart from this problem
(mostly with T009, but once or twice with a T007) the spongless carts
were better from a clogging point of view.

I have also read about (but NOT experienced) a problem concerning
mixing of dye and eboni ink on the parking pad.  Older 1280s etc. tend
to have quite a lot of ink around the pad and parts of the underside
of the printhead.  If you introduce eboni there is a chance that they
mix, and the mixture becomes very viscous causing problems.  
You could search for more on that, cleaning it, etc.  

One problem with clogs is they can be due to air or blockages.  It can
be difficult to tell these apart, but varying nozzle check patterns
are suggestive of air problems (blockages should stay in the same
nozzles until they clear). 

I hope you know to do clean cycles in sets of 3, never more at a time
before making a (small) print.  If you have problems that persist,
especially just after refilling a sponge cart, wait a few hours before
trying again.  (I agree this is very inconvenient!)

I printed many hundred prints with these printers, with pigment inks,
and had only slightly more frequent problems than with my canon S9000
with dyes.  

Both 12x0 printers were replaced when they failed (I got them used,
and replaced them with used printers - one of which still works). I
have moved on to using a single printer that can take PK/MK
simultaneously.

>  In printing a portrait, there is a thin white line appearing
> horizontally about 3/8 inch from the top and bottom of the print. It
> is always in the same place and it does NOT appear when I make the
> very same print on my 1800.

If you mean across the print as you look front on to the printer, it
sounds like either an error in the dithering - where it transitions
from the pattern used near the paper edges to the one used in the
middle of the sheet (software)- , or some kind of paper feed error,
happening at the same transition (where the steps that the paper takes
vary, you could see that if you watch carefully with the lid open).  
(Guesswork!)

>   It has been frustrating and I am tempted to return to my 1800 for
> B&W prints since I had no clogging issues at all with the Epson inks.
> (Though I must admit I prefer the 'look' and feel of the 1280 B&W
prints.)

There is a chance that printhead variation means that some 1280s are
just not going to work with certain non-standard inks.  I've seen
evidence of this variation, and the many reports of frustrating
problems suggest some of them are just a dead loss for this purpose.  

Good luck! 
Ken

Re: Problems using Eboni Black only on 1280 for B&W prints

2006-02-04 by ginnylady33

Well, as I said in my post, I'm new to this board so forgive my not
seeing your posts and those of others. My experience is that the 1280
is awful with the pigment inks, too. I was not asking about buying
one. It is an old printer I'd had for years. I merely wanted to know
if my awful experience was par for the course. 
Best 
Ginny


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mark_roth_505" 
<mark@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> It is absolutely amazing to me that since I AND COUNTLESS OTHERS have 
> posted on this board, more than a lot of times, along with other 
> experienced users of this printer, what a piece of crap the 1280 has 
> turned out to be WITH PIGMENT INKS, that more and more people are 
> asking, "should I buy a 1280"...
> 
> OK, I'm changing my mind, folks. Go out and buy the frigging 1280, buy 
> the MIS inks, and go through the hell.
> 
> YES, the 1280 is perfect! BUY IT....BUY 5 OF F999ING THINGS, AND THEN 
> COME ON THIS BOARD AND ASK IF YOU SHOULD BUY ANOTHER ONE.
>

Re: Problems using Eboni Black only on 1280 for B&W prints

2006-02-05 by mark_roth_505

I apologize Ginny, and anyone else who was offended for my insensitive 
comments yesterday. I got news earlier in the day that a close friend 
and mentor/father figure had passed away...I was in shock, angry, and 
on the edge. I'm sorry to anyone I offended.

Mark

Re: Problems using Eboni Black only on 1280 for B&W prints

2006-02-05 by ginnylady33

Apology accepted.
May God protect and guide his soul.
May your heart be comforted and all those who loved him.
Best
Ginny

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mark_roth_505"
<mark@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I apologize Ginny, and anyone else who was offended for my insensitive 
> comments yesterday. I got news earlier in the day that a close friend 
> and mentor/father figure had passed away...I was in shock, angry, and 
> on the edge. I'm sorry to anyone I offended.
> 
> Mark
>

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