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QTR-Create-ICC Profiles and Qimage Print to File

QTR-Create-ICC Profiles and Qimage Print to File

2006-01-01 by Tom Husband

Does anybody use Qimage print to file along with a QTR-Create-ICC
profile?  I like Qimage's interpolation and smart sharpen but can't
get it to recognize the QTR profile.  The QTR profile converts the
image to grayscale, Qimage doesn't recognize the QTR profile and
changes the image to RGB and assigns an RGB profile.  I really want to
use Qimage and QTR but haven't used Qimage since I started making
QTR-Create-ICC profiles.  Am I missing something here?  The only way I
can figure out how to use it is to print to file in Qimage and then
take it back into Photoshop to convert back to the QTR profile.

Thanks,

Tom

Re: [Digital BW] QTR-Create-ICC Profiles and Qimage Print to File

2006-01-01 by Steve Kale

Tom

I think Roy has a beta RGB version of the profiles whereby there are three
outcurves for the profiles, all set to the same numbers.

But in the interim, try doing the following:  in PS convert to the QTR
profile and then ASSIGN Adobe RGB or whatever Qimage demands.  Then print
with a Same as Source (No Color Management).  The first conversion will
adjust the file numbers whereas the assignment will not and so you should ed
up still sending the converting file numbers to the printer.  I think this
should work.

Steve
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Tom Husband <thusband@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 14:05:06 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] QTR-Create-ICC Profiles and Qimage Print to File
> 
> Does anybody use Qimage print to file along with a QTR-Create-ICC
> profile?  I like Qimage's interpolation and smart sharpen but can't
> get it to recognize the QTR profile.  The QTR profile converts the
> image to grayscale, Qimage doesn't recognize the QTR profile and
> changes the image to RGB and assigns an RGB profile.  I really want to
> use Qimage and QTR but haven't used Qimage since I started making
> QTR-Create-ICC profiles.  Am I missing something here?  The only way I
> can figure out how to use it is to print to file in Qimage and then
> take it back into Photoshop to convert back to the QTR profile.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom

Re: [Digital BW] QTR-Create-ICC Profiles and Qimage Print to File

2006-01-01 by Tom Husband

Thanks, Steve, I'll give that a try.  I'll look forward to those new 
profiles from Roy.

Tom

Steve Kale wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Tom
>
> I think Roy has a beta RGB version of the profiles whereby there are three
> outcurves for the profiles, all set to the same numbers.
>
> But in the interim, try doing the following:  in PS convert to the QTR
> profile and then ASSIGN Adobe RGB or whatever Qimage demands.  Then print
> with a Same as Source (No Color Management).  The first conversion will
> adjust the file numbers whereas the assignment will not and so you 
> should ed
> up still sending the converting file numbers to the printer.  I think this
> should work.
>
> Steve <http://www.eset.com>

Re: [Digital BW] QTR-Create-ICC Profiles and Qimage Print to File

2006-01-01 by Ernst Dinkla

Steve Kale wrote:
> Tom
> 
> I think Roy has a beta RGB version of the profiles whereby there are three
> outcurves for the profiles, all set to the same numbers.
> 
> But in the interim, try doing the following:  in PS convert to the QTR
> profile and then ASSIGN Adobe RGB or whatever Qimage demands.  Then print
> with a Same as Source (No Color Management).  The first conversion will
> adjust the file numbers whereas the assignment will not and so you should ed
> up still sending the converting file numbers to the printer.  I think this
> should work.
> 
> Steve

Convert the greyscale image to the printer profile in PS and 
don't use CM in Qimage is the easiest method.
No need to assign AdobeRGB in my opinion. No need to have CM 
on either when the conversion is already done.

The resulting RGB file will be brought back to greyscale in QTR.


                    --
           Ernst Dinkla


www.pigment-print.com
(         unvollendet         )

Re: [Digital BW] QTR-Create-ICC Profiles and Qimage Print to File

2006-01-01 by Tom Husband

Hi Ernst,

Converting to the QTR printer profile in PS and not using CM in Qimage 
when printing to file shows the ICC profile to be Dot Gain 20% and not 
the QTR profile after Qimage gets done with it.

Steve's suggestion doesn't seem to work either. After converting to the 
QTR profile in PS the image is grayscale and won't accept assigning an 
RGB profile like Adobe 98.

I think the only way is to bring it back into PS after Qimage and 
convert it back to the QTR profile again.

Thanks to both of you for your suggestions.

Tom

Ernst Dinkla wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Steve Kale wrote:
> > Tom
> >
> > I think Roy has a beta RGB version of the profiles whereby there are 
> three
> > outcurves for the profiles, all set to the same numbers.
> >
> > But in the interim, try doing the following: in PS convert to the QTR
> > profile and then ASSIGN Adobe RGB or whatever Qimage demands. Then print
> > with a Same as Source (No Color Management). The first conversion will
> > adjust the file numbers whereas the assignment will not and so you 
> should ed
> > up still sending the converting file numbers to the printer. I think 
> this
> > should work.
> >
> > Steve
>
> Convert the greyscale image to the printer profile in PS and
> don't use CM in Qimage is the easiest method.
> No need to assign AdobeRGB in my opinion. No need to have CM
> on either when the conversion is already done.
>
> The resulting RGB file will be brought back to greyscale in QTR.
>
>
> --
> Ernst Dinkla
>
>
> www.pigment-print.com
> ( unvollendet )
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
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Re: [Digital BW] QTR-Create-ICC Profiles and Qimage Print to File

2006-01-01 by Tyler Boley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Husband <thusband@s...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi Ernst,
> 
> Converting to the QTR printer profile in PS and not using CM in Qimage 
> when printing to file shows the ICC profile to be Dot Gain 20% and not 
> the QTR profile after Qimage gets done with it.

Did you try printing it anyway? It may behave like PS, when a file is not color managed it 
assumes the default if a conversion is called for at some point. Obviously you can't ask it 
to convert to something without something to convert "from". It's possible qimage assigns 
it something, but if no conversion takes place down the line, because you have it set for 
none, it really doesn't matter if it gets tagged somewhere.
Badly written, hope it makes sense.
> 
> Steve's suggestion doesn't seem to work either. After converting to the 
> QTR profile in PS the image is grayscale and won't accept assigning an 
> RGB profile like Adobe 98.

That was predictable. You can't assign a profile or space to a file that is not in that mode, 
or same number of channels.
> 
> I think the only way is to bring it back into PS after Qimage and 
> convert it back to the QTR profile again.

I'd like to see qimage make a change with regard to this, the ability to output single 
channel, since many here use single channel input drivers.
I'm not thrilled with all these mode conversions, it's potentially lossy, and ultimately 
unnecessary.

Tyler

Re: [Digital BW] QTR-Create-ICC Profiles and Qimage Print to File

2006-01-01 by Tyler Boley

also, do I recall getting 8 bit out from qimage after sending it 16 bit?
There were a couple of reasons I dropped my testing with it and never looked back, so I don't 
remember everything I tried or completely learned the app.
Tyler

Re: [Digital BW] QTR-Create-ICC Profiles and Qimage Print to File

2006-01-01 by Steve Kale

Yes my mistake.  I should have suggested converting to the QTR profile,
assigning GG2.2 and then converting to Adobe RGB.  I think that will leave
the file numbers untouched if GG2.2 is a neat subset of Adobe RGB.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Tyler Boley <tyler@...>

>> 
>> Steve's suggestion doesn't seem to work either. After converting to the
>> QTR profile in PS the image is grayscale and won't accept assigning an
>> RGB profile like Adobe 98.
> 
> That was predictable. You can't assign a profile or space to a file that is
> not in that mode,
> or same number of channels.

Re: [Digital BW] QTR-Create-ICC Profiles and Qimage Print to File

2006-01-01 by Tom Husband

Tyler you're right. I was so concerned about the profile I didn't even 
notice that the image is converted to 8 bit. Way too many issues with 
Qimage and BW printing for me to continue to fool with it. That's too 
bad I've been a fan for years.

Thanks,

Tom

Tyler Boley wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> also, do I recall getting 8 bit out from qimage after sending it 16 bit?
> There were a couple of reasons I dropped my testing with it and never 
> looked back, so I don't
> remember everything I tried or completely learned the app.
> Tyler
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
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Re: [Digital BW] QTR-Create-ICC Profiles and Qimage Print to File

2006-01-01 by Tyler Boley

It seems pretty cool though, I think it depends on your overall needs. For example, if you 
are using a driver that makes no use of 16 bit on input, or just converts it to 8 there 
anyway, this issue alone would not rule it out.
My setup take grayscale 16 in, and I take pains to edit and prep files with as little 
converting back and forth as possible. I was very interested in it's re-sizing and 
sharpening features, but given that my files cam out the other end in 8 bit RGB, for me 
that was enough to move on. But if you are using the Epson driver, it may be great. As far 
as we know, it just loves to eat 8 bit RGB.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Husband <thusband@s...> 
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Tyler you're right. I was so concerned about the profile I didn't even 
> notice that the image is converted to 8 bit. Way too many issues with 
> Qimage and BW printing for me to continue to fool with it. That's too 
> bad I've been a fan for years.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom

Re: [Digital BW] QTR-Create-ICC Profiles and Qimage Print to File

2006-01-01 by Tom Husband

I want to use Qimage for is its re-sizing and sharpening features too. I 
want to use its print to file feature and then actually print through 
QTR. I wish the author could be convinced to modify the program. It has 
been attempted over in the Qimage group but to no avail.

Tom

Tyler Boley wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> It seems pretty cool though, I think it depends on your overall needs. 
> For example, if you
> are using a driver that makes no use of 16 bit on input, or just 
> converts it to 8 there
> anyway, this issue alone would not rule it out.
> My setup take grayscale 16 in, and I take pains to edit and prep files 
> with as little
> converting back and forth as possible. I was very interested in it's 
> re-sizing and
> sharpening features, but given that my files cam out the other end in 
> 8 bit RGB, for me
> that was enough to move on. But if you are using the Epson driver, it 
> may be great. As far
> as we know, it just loves to eat 8 bit RGB.
> Tyler
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Husband 
> <thusband@s...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Tyler you're right. I was so concerned about the profile I didn't even
> > notice that the image is converted to 8 bit. Way too many issues with
> > Qimage and BW printing for me to continue to fool with it. That's too
> > bad I've been a fan for years.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
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Re: [Digital BW] QTR-Create-ICC Profiles and Qimage Print to File

2006-01-02 by Ernst Dinkla

Tom Husband wrote:
> Tyler you're right. I was so concerned about the profile I didn't even 
> notice that the image is converted to 8 bit. Way too many issues with 
> Qimage and BW printing for me to continue to fool with it. That's too 
> bad I've been a fan for years.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom

Tom,

Much of the workflow with Qimage would become easier if QTR
behaved more like a Windows printer driver. That isn't
criticism on what Roy has done. Qimage is very Windows
API/printer driver directed so another driver type makes it
more difficult. Sizes to print to, native resolution etc would
all be taken care of by Qimage if QTR was just a Windows
driver. But we are lucky for other reasons that it isn't just a
Windows driver.
.

In my PS CS1 setup I have the color management
settings/preferences for grayscale set to QTR Gray Lab and
color to AdobeRGB. No Gamma 2.2 or Dotgain 20% that you may
have in the settings and that could be interfering in the
assigning. When I convert a grayscale in QTR Gray Lab to the
printer profile QTR Gray Matte Paper the data in the grayscale
will change accordingly and the printer profile will be
assigned. That there is a printer profile assigned isn't of
importance, the data has been changed for QTR already. There's
no other color management after that done by Qimage (with CM
off) or QTR (has no CM). I believe even the RGB file that
Qimage makes (in Print to File) and that goes to QTR still has
that printer profile assigned (can't check that as it is on
the printer server that is off right now). In fact that is an
inappropriate profile for that RGB file but it doesn't matter
as no CM will work and notice it. After QTR the file is
deleted anyway.

My files are 16 bit in PS but they become 8 bit along that
path. As far as I know QTR is taking in 8 bit uses LUTs of 16
bit at some stage and sends 2-3?  bit per ink channel or
something like that.

Gutenprint is at 16 bit throughout till it splits on the channels.

                    --
           Ernst Dinkla


www.pigment-print.com
(         unvollendet         )

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.