Digital BW, The Print

Hello All,

I got my top-fill R200 carts today and put some Eboni in it and am
happy to report that it does very good BO.  I found the smoothest
dither with the "Photo Quality Ink Jet Paper" setting.  The R200 has
more dither banding than my 2200 did, but is only visible with a loupe
(some of the other paper settings had very bad banding that was
visible unaided).  Oddly, while comparing with an identical 2200
print, under the loupe the R200 looks worse (more banding), but to the
eye it looks smoother. Must be just a better dither pattern that the
banding isn't bad enough to ruin.

Another plus is that the density and contrast at that setting is
nearly identical to the 2200.  So basically I can print all my images
with little if any adjustments.  I have two prints in front of me here
that are nearly indistinguishable.

This makes me very happy because in my 2400-QTR-BO experiments so far
I have not been able get results anywhere near as good as the 2200.
I have matched the contrast and density ok, but it's the dither
algorithms that are inadequate.  The best of them is still coarser
than the 2200.  It's ok for some images, but over all not as
satisfactory as what I've been used to.  So now I can continue to
do BO prints while I experiment more with the 2400.

As for the R200 banding, I'm going to try some head alignments.  With
the 2200 I was able to reduce it significantly by using what was
theoretically a not optimal setting.  I'll report if I find something
that works.  That's all for now.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Hello Clayton,
 Glad to hear of your fairly good satisfaction with the R200 but 
discouraging for the 2400 (or maybe it will save me some money!). As always, 
appreciate your hard work and sharing of your results.
 Richard

 On 8/19/05, Clayton Jones <cj@...> wrote: 
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I got my top-fill R200 carts today and put some Eboni in it and am
> happy to report that it does very good BO. I found the smoothest
> dither with the "Photo Quality Ink Jet Paper" setting. The R200 has
> more dither banding than my 2200 did, but is only visible with a loupe
> (some of the other paper settings had very bad banding that was
> visible unaided). Oddly, while comparing with an identical 2200
> print, under the loupe the R200 looks worse (more banding), but to the
> eye it looks smoother. Must be just a better dither pattern that the
> banding isn't bad enough to ruin.
> 
> Another plus is that the density and contrast at that setting is
> nearly identical to the 2200. So basically I can print all my images
> with little if any adjustments. I have two prints in front of me here
> that are nearly indistinguishable.
> 
> This makes me very happy because in my 2400-QTR-BO experiments so far
> I have not been able get results anywhere near as good as the 2200.
> I have matched the contrast and density ok, but it's the dither
> algorithms that are inadequate. The best of them is still coarser
> than the 2200. It's ok for some images, but over all not as
> satisfactory as what I've been used to. So now I can continue to
> do BO prints while I experiment more with the 2400.
> 
> As for the R200 banding, I'm going to try some head alignments. With
> the 2200 I was able to reduce it significantly by using what was
> theoretically a not optimal setting. I'll report if I find something
> that works. That's all for now.
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at 
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> 
> 
> 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Clayton,

I just found this post and it answered my previous question.
thanks,
David
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" 
<cj@c...> wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I got my top-fill R200 carts today and put some Eboni in it and am
> happy to report that it does very good BO.  I found the smoothest
> dither with the "Photo Quality Ink Jet Paper" setting.  The R200 has
> more dither banding than my 2200 did, but is only visible with a 
loupe
> (some of the other paper settings had very bad banding that was
> visible unaided).  Oddly, while comparing with an identical 2200
> print, under the loupe the R200 looks worse (more banding), but to 
the
> eye it looks smoother. Must be just a better dither pattern that the
> banding isn't bad enough to ruin.
> 
> Another plus is that the density and contrast at that setting is
> nearly identical to the 2200.  So basically I can print all my 
images
> with little if any adjustments.  I have two prints in front of me 
here
> that are nearly indistinguishable.
> 
> This makes me very happy because in my 2400-QTR-BO experiments so 
far
> I have not been able get results anywhere near as good as the 2200.
> I have matched the contrast and density ok, but it's the dither
> algorithms that are inadequate.  The best of them is still coarser
> than the 2200.  It's ok for some images, but over all not as
> satisfactory as what I've been used to.  So now I can continue to
> do BO prints while I experiment more with the 2400.
> 
> As for the R200 banding, I'm going to try some head alignments.  
With
> the 2200 I was able to reduce it significantly by using what was
> theoretically a not optimal setting.  I'll report if I find 
something

> that works.  That's all for now.
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Clayton,

I wanted to chime in and give my findings for the best settings I've
discovered for BO printing on my newly acquired R200 refurb from Epson. 

My printing so far has been done with Eboni from MIS in their
spongeless carts on Red River's 50lb premium matte C2S paper.

Whenever I select "Photo Quality Ink Jet Paper" I get some faint
banding in sections of the print. These are pretty hard to detect but
if you look closely for them they are there. But the good thing about
the  "Photo Quality Ink Jet Paper" setting is that it's an exact match
for what I am seeing on my monitor, which is calibrated via a Eye-One
from GretagMacbeth.

After making some test prints I discovered that my printer does not
band at all when using the "Photo Paper" Media Type setting with a
print quality setting of Photo RPM. The Best Photo setting also seemed
to band just a touch too. These prints had just a shade less contrast
than the prints made with the "Photo Quality Ink Jet Paper" setting.

By going to Color Management and bumping up the contast to +3 my
prints looked identical. 

I'm also leaving High Speed off but I couldn't see any change in the
test print with high speed enabled. I would have to make more prints
to be comforable declaring this as gospel. For now I'll leave high
speed off.

The BO prints I'm producing from my R200 are as good as those I made
with my 1280, and, knock on wood, I'm clog free so far. 

--Jim

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@c...> wrote:

>
> Hello All,
> 
> I got my top-fill R200 carts today and put some Eboni in it and am
> happy to report that it does very good BO.  I found the smoothest
> dither with the "Photo Quality Ink Jet Paper" setting.  The R200 has
> more dither banding than my 2200 did, but is only visible with a loupe
> (some of the other paper settings had very bad banding that was
> visible unaided).  Oddly, while comparing with an identical 2200
> print, under the loupe the R200 looks worse (more banding), but to the
> eye it looks smoother. Must be just a better dither pattern that the
> banding isn't bad enough to ruin.
> 
> Another plus is that the density and contrast at that setting is
> nearly identical to the 2200.  So basically I can print all my images
> with little if any adjustments.  I have two prints in front of me here
> that are nearly indistinguishable.
> 
> This makes me very happy because in my 2400-QTR-BO experiments so far
> I have not been able get results anywhere near as good as the 2200.
> I have matched the contrast and density ok, but it's the dither
> algorithms that are inadequate.  The best of them is still coarser
> than the 2200.  It's ok for some images, but over all not as
> satisfactory as what I've been used to.  So now I can continue to
> do BO prints while I experiment more with the 2400.
> 
> As for the R200 banding, I'm going to try some head alignments.  With
> the 2200 I was able to reduce it significantly by using what was
> theoretically a not optimal setting.  I'll report if I find something
> that works.  That's all for now.
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>

Thanks, Jim, for posting your BO report on your experience with the R200.

I've installed my R200 refurb but haven't yet installed Eboni or 
replaced my image monitor. So I'm going to be following you and 
Clayton at a comfortable distance. But I hope to keep you all in 
sight, and I appreciate the encouragement.

Is the black ink from MIS's Eboni spongeless cart playing nicely with 
the Epson color inks in the other five carts? I'm wondering whether 
to replace those color carts too and, if so, what with? But I ordered 
another set of all six Epson carts from Atlex.com so I could take my 
time.

Thanks again.
--
Sam


At 8:04 AM +0000 1/8/06, jim0266 wrote:

>
>Clayton,
>
>I wanted to chime in and give my findings for the best settings I've
>discovered for BO printing on my newly acquired R200 refurb from Epson.
>
>My printing so far has been done with Eboni from MIS in their
>spongeless carts on Red River's 50lb premium matte C2S paper.
>
>[snip]

Hello Jim,

>I wanted to chime in and give my findings for the best settings 
>I've discovered for BO printing on my newly acquired R200 refurb 
>from Epson. 

Thanks for the report.  I found that a head alignment reduced the tiny
dither banding significantly.  The default numbers were 5 in all
positions, but mine ended up with some 4s, 3s and 7s in various spots.
I suspect there will be a lot of variation in these printers.  If you
haven't done it I think it's worth a try.


>The BO prints I'm producing from my R200 are as good as those I 
>made with my 1280, and, knock on wood, I'm clog free so far. 

I kept examples of all my sample BO prints made with the 2200, and
I've found that the R200 dmax is a bit less than the 2200, same ink
and paper.  I suppose it could be from a different ink or paper batch,
but I suspect it's the printer.  Are you able to compare dmax directly
with your 1280 prints?

Same here on clogs - none.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

> Thanks for the report.  I found that a head alignment reduced the tiny
> dither banding significantly.  The default numbers were 5 in all
> positions, but mine ended up with some 4s, 3s and 7s in various spots.
> I suspect there will be a lot of variation in these printers.  If you
> haven't done it I think it's worth a try.

Thanks for the tip. I took a look at did tweak a few of my settings.
I'll have to see if that helps.


> I kept examples of all my sample BO prints made with the 2200, and
> I've found that the R200 dmax is a bit less than the 2200, same ink
> and paper.  I suppose it could be from a different ink or paper batch,
> but I suspect it's the printer.  Are you able to compare dmax directly
> with your 1280 prints?

I don't have the first clue how to do this. Any good info you can
point me towards?

Thanks!
Jim

Jim,

>I don't have the first clue how to do this. Any good info you can
>point me towards?

All I meant was that if you have any of your 1280 prints, make the
same print with the 200 and compare them side by side.  My R200 sample
print has a tiny bit less dmax.  It could be just a difference in the
paper or ink batches.  In fact, now I'm thinking it _is_ the paper.  I
just took another careful look under 3 different light sources, and
both the paper color and ink color are slightly different (two
different batches of photo rag).  


Regards,
Clayton

Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Since I am dedicating this printer to B&W printing using the
Black-Only method, I am going to switch over to using clear base stock
in the other carts. It's $8 for 4 ounces at MIS. You want ESC-BASE-4-UC.

I ordered the pre-filled UT-R2 Neutral carts (R2N-CART-SET-K). Those
come in the spongless carts that you can refill and are already
chipped. It boils down to $7.45 per empty cart once you buy the chip,
or $10.95 per cart for one that is already filled and chipped.

This way I have the opportunity to play around with some full-spectrum
printing to compare it against BO and then refill those carts with the
base stock if I stick with BO printing, which it looks like I will.

Black-only prints look great, are cheap and easy to produce. What more
could you ask for?

By the way, I was told by someone at MIS that their cleaning fluid is
base stock diluted 50 percent with distilled water.

To answer your question, I didn't have any problem with the BO eboni
cart playing nicely with the Epson carts. I had not planned to install
them at all but one of the MIS chips was bad and I was forced to
install the original Epson carts while waiting for MIS to replace it
over the holiday.

Good luck!
Jim


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Sam McCandless
<samcc@v...> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Jim, for posting your BO report on your experience with the
R200.

> 
> I've installed my R200 refurb but haven't yet installed Eboni or 
> replaced my image monitor. So I'm going to be following you and 
> Clayton at a comfortable distance. But I hope to keep you all in 
> sight, and I appreciate the encouragement.
> 
> Is the black ink from MIS's Eboni spongeless cart playing nicely with 
> the Epson color inks in the other five carts? I'm wondering whether 
> to replace those color carts too and, if so, what with? But I ordered 
> another set of all six Epson carts from Atlex.com so I could take my 
> time.
> 
> Thanks again.
> --
> Sam
> 
> 
> At 8:04 AM +0000 1/8/06, jim0266 wrote:
> >
> >Clayton,
> >
> >I wanted to chime in and give my findings for the best settings I've
> >discovered for BO printing on my newly acquired R200 refurb from Epson.
> >
> >My printing so far has been done with Eboni from MIS in their
> >spongeless carts on Red River's 50lb premium matte C2S paper.
> >
> >[snip]
>

Clayton,

Yes, I would say I am getting the same Dmax just by eyeballing new
prints vesus old 1280 versions.

Jim

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@c...> wrote:

>
> Jim,
> 
> >I don't have the first clue how to do this. Any good info you can
> >point me towards?
> 
> All I meant was that if you have any of your 1280 prints, make the
> same print with the 200 and compare them side by side.  My R200 sample
> print has a tiny bit less dmax.  It could be just a difference in the
> paper or ink batches.  In fact, now I'm thinking it _is_ the paper.  I
> just took another careful look under 3 different light sources, and
> both the paper color and ink color are slightly different (two
> different batches of photo rag).  
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>