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Piezo consistency: Colorimetric data over time.

Piezo consistency: Colorimetric data over time.

2001-12-15 by antonisphoto

Folks,

here is the beginning of a bit of research on my part to track the performance 
of my 1160  with piezo inks and v.5.1.2 plug in.  Depending on your level of 
tolerance for tech talk, you may want to read  the details below. But the short 
story (and partial conclusion) is this:

Digital printing, especially a profiled, "canned" solution like piezoBW, 
promises to allow "print-on-demand". This means you can expect to make the 
identical print a week, a month or a year later. For this to happen, however, as 
we all know too well, the hardware (including heads, inks, CIS tubes etc) has 
to operate identically over time. A lot of us have developed  voodoo methods 
for fighting the inconsistencies of the system and often, but not always, these 
work. Even so, unless things get really out of whack, we cannot be sure that 
print-on-demand is a realistic expectation. We tend to count on eyeballing and 
the promise of the accuracy of canned profiles.

What I haven't done methodically for myself until now is set a standard for 
what is the ideal out-of-the-box initial state of the system and when and how it 
drifts. Here is what brought this about:

My printer sat for a period of 3 months unused. The first prints I made had 
extremely flat 3/4 tones. This went on for days. A few weeks later, it all seems 
to be back to normal. But how "normal" is normal is the question. Considering 
the accuracy promised by profiles, the degree of "device drifting" over time 
may simply overpower the accuracy promised by any profile. And I certainly 
wasn't smart enough to start taking readings when I first installed the whole 
thing a year ago. So I really don't know what an ideal standard is. I wish 
ConeTech would make available a list of ideal densities for their gray scale.

So, my first conclusion and proposal is that anyone using piezo - and other 
multitone gray ink systems - keep track of their grayscale performance and 
compare samples over time. The system may drift  in ways your eyes may not 
always notice. 

The second issue this raises is how to go about measuring. A simple bw 
densitometer is a good method. But this time, I went the colorimeter way 
because I wanted to track both density and color over time. This time my 
samples are limited to only 3. But I am publicizing these results for general 
comments and to see if and how they may be useful to this community.

Now for the tech talk....

The set up:
I used prints of the same grayscale file made on the same batch of Orwell 
paper  with the same Orwell profile, using the same software. These were 
made on 5/10, 11/26 and 12/13 of this year. They were kept in the dark in 
average temp/humidity conditions.  During this period, the inks have been 
refilled by pouring new inks into partially empty CIS bottles while making sure 
no air enters the system. All inks came from fresh, sealed Conetech bottles.  It 
is important to keep in mind that just before the 11/26 tests were printed,  the 
printer sat idle for about 10 weeks. 

The method:
I used an X-Rite DTP22 (Digital Swatchbook) and saved all readings in 
Colorshop 2.6. From there I exported relevant data for graphing. 
I made 3 such graphs:

- One is similar to what a simple densitometer would have recorded. Took 
readings from paper white (marked p on the scale ) to 100% black in 10% 
increments.       
>>>>>file:  visDensORW.JPG 

- The second takes colorimetric data into account and plots deltaE deviation of 
the 11/26 and 12/13 scales when compared to the 5/10 scale. This is the one 
that shows the wildest results. For this to be meaningful, we have to take into 
account the time between printing an reading. All scales were read at the 
same time, making the 12/13 the "freshest" print. So, this result may show us 
how prints "cure" - even in the dark - above and beyond hardware system drift.
 >>>>file:  dE-ORW.JPG 

- I made one more graph, partly out of curiosity and partly to throw it out there 
and see what everyone's take is: I plotted the Hue values of the HSB numbers 
for each reading. The best way to see what this means is to go to Photoshop, 
click on the color picker at the botom of the tool palette and play with the 
settings of the vertical color bar that defines the Hue position for the current 
color. You will notice that you go pretty much from red, through yellow and into 
green territory. The reason, of course that these colors don't jump out at us is 
that the saturation (the S in HSB) is low in the "gray" inks. But the Hue position 
may be an indicator of a cast and of a drift in that cast. As for the B 
(Brightness), that simply tracks the density values and is covered in the first 
curve. This curve proposes a way to look into the color of the grays.
>>>file: HSBcompare.JPG 

I have uploaded all three in the Files of the group. You can follow the link 
below (make sure to copy and paste rather than just click):
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/Message%
20Related%20Files/12_2001%20uploads/Orwell%20scales%20over%20tim
e/

If you get lost with the link, simply look in the Message Related Files folder for 
December.

Food for thought I hope. Your comments will be most welcome.

Thanks,

Antonis

Re: Piezo consistency: Colorimetric data over time.

2001-12-15 by mwesley3

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "antonisphoto" 
<antonisphoto@y...> wrote:

(snip)
> 
> Digital printing, especially a profiled, "canned" solution like 
piezoBW, 
> promises to allow "print-on-demand". This means you can expect to 
make the 
> identical print a week, a month or a year later. For this to 
happen, however, as 
> we all know too well, the hardware (including heads, inks, CIS 
tubes etc) has 
> to operate identically over time. A lot of us have developed  
voodoo methods 
> for fighting the inconsistencies of the system and often, but not 
always, these 
> work. Even so, unless things get really out of whack, we cannot be 
sure that 
> print-on-demand is a realistic expectation. We tend to count on 
eyeballing and 
> the promise of the accuracy of canned profiles.
> 
Antonis,

Given the current inconsistencies, I don't know that we are any worse 
off than we were silver printing. When I get a good silver print I 
have always made extra copies if I can, knowing that down the road 
with a different batch of paper I will have to refine the print all 
over again. I am starting to do the same thing with inkjet prints.

For true print on demand I think that you would need to do regular, 
as in daily, control checks and then have the software and/or 
hardware adjustments available to keep it on track. This is the way 
good color processing is done but the tools don't seem to be there 
for gray inks. There is a real need for a gray ink printer profiling 
software package that creates true printer profiles and separation 
curves unique to each individual printer/ink/paper combination and 
allows us to constantly up date them as our equipment and materials 
shift. Not likely to be cheap but maybe someday.

Thank you for compiling your data for us. This will give us a base 
line, begin to establish how much variation to expect with these 
systems and put some real numbers to some of the "eyeball" 
information we have observed. 

Martin

Re: Piezo consistency: Colorimetric data. Profiling issues

2001-12-15 by antonisphoto

Martin,

there are different kinds of "profiling" in this regard.

The simple one, that deals with matching a grayscale file to a grayscale print 
can be done right now in PS 6. Simply calculating dot gain (OK, that may 
require an instrument, though eyeballing is mighty close) and saving the 
resulting gray setting becomes a profile in the "eyes" of Photoshop. 

Then there is the more complex one of dealing with separating the 8 or 16bit 
grays into the 4 or 6 inks. I believe you are already ahead of me on that one, 
but my previous experience point to the necessity for a RIP capable of 4 or 6 
color printing before any profiles can be made meaningfully. In other words 
gray-to-CcMmYK would be preferrable to gray-to-RGB-to <unknown Epson 
separation algorithm>.

But either of the above solutions still require a way to bring the hardware into 
a repeatable, linearized, calibrated state. That means that for a given digital 
value it has to produce the same exact density of ink on paper. A tall order for 
most desktop/toy printers. It's probably why the wide-format Epsons cost that 
much more. But even then, plotting graphs to check for drifting (what my 
original message was about) should be a regular part of any serious  printing 
"regiment".

Antonis



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "mwesley3" <mwesley250@e...> 
wrote:
.....
There is a real need for a gray ink printer profiling 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> software package that creates true printer profiles and separation 
> curves unique to each individual printer/ink/paper combination and 
> allows us to constantly up date them as our equipment and materials 
> shift. Not likely to be cheap but maybe someday.

Re: Piezo consistency: Colorimetric data. Profiling issues

2001-12-16 by mwesley3

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "antonisphoto" 
<antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> Martin,
> 
> there are different kinds of "profiling" in this regard.
> 
> The simple one, that deals with matching a grayscale file to a 
grayscale print 
> can be done right now in PS 6. Simply calculating dot gain (OK, 
that may 
> require an instrument, though eyeballing is mighty close) and 
saving the 
> resulting gray setting becomes a profile in the "eyes" of 
Photoshop. 

Antonis,

This is true but once you see a true color profile of a gray-
ink/paper combination where not only the density is reflected but the 
color of the ink and paper as well, it is really amazing.

> 
> Then there is the more complex one of dealing with separating the 8 
or 16bit 
> grays into the 4 or 6 inks. I believe you are already ahead of me 
on that one,

Just riding Tyler Boley's coat tails here!
 
> but my previous experience point to the necessity for a RIP capable 
of 4 or 6 
> color printing before any profiles can be made meaningfully. In 
other words 
> gray-to-CcMmYK would be preferrable to gray-to-RGB-to <unknown 
Epson 
> separation algorithm>.

Exactly, the Epson driver controlled C-to-c and M-to-m transitions 
seem to be very ink dependent. Not just a dilution issue but probably 
viscosity and surface tension related. In other words, Epson created 
their driver(s) to work with very specific inks and once you move 
away from those, you are on difficult ground. From Paul's success 
with the MIS VM curves and MIS's formulation of their inks it may not 
be of great importance but I am coming to believe that to extract 
that last 0.1% you may want to control these transitions.

If you have an accurate on screen profile, this seems to greatly 
speed and simplify the building of the separation curves.

> 
> But either of the above solutions still require a way to bring the 
hardware into 
> a repeatable, linearized, calibrated state. That means that for a 
given digital 
> value it has to produce the same exact density of ink on paper. A 
tall order for 
> most desktop/toy printers. It's probably why the wide-format Epsons 
cost that 
> much more. But even then, plotting graphs to check for drifting 
(what my 
> original message was about) should be a regular part of any 
serious  printing 
> "regiment".
> 

Exactly. Ideally you need something in your workflow that allows you 
to respond to the changes you measure and I don't really see this in 
Piezo or any of the current workflows. It is of course there in the 
RGB, CMYK and CcMmYK separation methods, but only in the cumbersome 
method of generating a new on screen profile and new separation 
curves. Separation curves seems as much art as science to me at this 
point.

Martin

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