Digital BW, The Print

I have been  shooting analog film apx100. developed in rodinal.
scanned into photoshop. with the print made using mis inks.
this is done with the paul roark workflow.I will be trying a new 
combination of film and developer. the new film is aristia.edu,ultra
{foma 100}. The developer will be pmk pyro.this is a staining 
developer.If anyone is left that still captures on film would 
like to hear your film/developer combos for this print workflow.

> I have been  shooting analog film apx100. developed in rodinal.
> scanned into photoshop. with the print made using mis inks.
> this is done with the paul roark workflow.I will be trying a 
> new combination of film and developer. the new film is 
> aristia.edu,ultra {foma 100}. The developer will be pmk 
> pyro.this is a staining developer.If anyone is left that 
> still captures on film would like to hear your film/developer 
> combos for this print workflow.

I shoot HP5, and develop mainly in ID11/D76, and am about to try some
IlfoSol tonight. I aim to print on a C86 using MIS neutral inks (and ilford
gallerie gloss smooth) as & when I have saved enough!

Chris


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I use Ilford HP5+ and TMax 100 in 4x5  sheet film and Arista 400 (which is 
supposed to be HP5+) in 8x10 sheet film. I process in D76 1-1, then scan, 
edit, and print. I use the same times, temperatures, and agitation methods 
as I did when I printed in the darkroom (i.e. the negatives that worked well 
for darkroom printing seem to also work well for scanning).  Since I use 
sheet film and you must use roll film if you're using APX 100 (APX 100 was 
discontinued in sheet film a few years ago) I don't think there'd be any 
purpose in going through my procedures.

Why are you switching to pyro? I've read that it's good for scanning though 
I haven't read an explanation of why that's so. I never found any benefit 
from PMK with wet printing. I've been tempted to try it again now that I 
scan and print digitally but I'd like to know why it's supposed to be 
particularly good for scanning before trying it again.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "richmellor1" <richmellor@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 10:55 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] black and white film


I have been  shooting analog film apx100. developed in rodinal.
scanned into photoshop. with the print made using mis inks.
this is done with the paul roark workflow.I will be trying a new
combination of film and developer. the new film is aristia.edu,ultra
{foma 100}. The developer will be pmk pyro.this is a staining
developer.If anyone is left that still captures on film would
like to hear your film/developer combos for this print workflow.





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A good Pyro neg will have less overall density and is particularly useful
for conveying detail in the higher end of the tonal scale. It is very useful
to scan the negs as RGB. Try to make the negative a neutral as possible as
you scan. The scans can seem a bit flat compared to other film and dev.
Combos. But if you use the  Channel mixer to convert to Grayscale you have
an opportunity to take the best properties of the Red and Green channels and
augment them to achieve a great file. There are many ways to use the channel
mixer to create files. a good and simple one is described in Michael
Kiernan¹s ³ Photoshop Color Correction² Chapter 8. he uses a curve on the
Red channel and a separate curve on the Green channel to augment the
inherent contrast in each channel.  The two curves adjusted channels are
then mixed together ( think multi-filter printing) in the channel mixer. The
blue channel is avoided as that is where most of the noise resides. This is
not the most advanced application of the channel mixer but it works well to
help retain the spectral contrast hiding in the pyro neg.

Pyro negs are pretty smooth to scan. I shot with it for 10 years but I now
prefer to shoot with Tmax 100 .It is a lot smoother and a lot more detail
with just about any dev.

> I use Ilford HP5+ and TMax 100 in 4x5  sheet film and Arista 400 (which is
> supposed to be HP5+) in 8x10 sheet film. I process in D76 1-1, then scan,
> edit, and print. I use the same times, temperatures, and agitation methods
> as I did when I printed in the darkroom (i.e. the negatives that worked well
> for darkroom printing seem to also work well for scanning).  Since I use
> sheet film and you must use roll film if you're using APX 100 (APX 100 was
> discontinued in sheet film a few years ago) I don't think there'd be any
> purpose in going through my procedures.


--
Steve Smith
photosmith@...
401-453-1596 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brian Ellis wrote:

>
>Why are you switching to pyro? I've read that it's good for scanning though 
>I haven't read an explanation of why that's so. I never found any benefit 
>from PMK with wet printing. I've been tempted to try it again now that I 
>scan and print digitally but I'd like to know why it's supposed to be 
>particularly good for scanning before trying it again.
>  
>
Hi Brian,

I'm not the original poster, but I imagine that pyro stain will help 
lower the granularity of the scanned slide. How big a deal this is, I'm 
not sure. Today a Nikon Coolscan V arrived, and I'll scan some PMK 
negatives later this week and see how things go. I to don't use PMK for 
developing anymore, though, as it lead to extremely compressed highlight 
on VC silver paper.

If someone is interested in determining the effects of a pyro stain on 
scanning results, try the following: Make the best scan that you can of 
a negative developed in a non-staining developer, something like D76 1+1 
or any other reasonably fine-grained developer.  Bleach the negative in 
a re-halogenating bleach (a sepia toner type bleach will work, i.e. a 
solution of potassium ferricyanide and postassim bromide), and 
re-develop in PMK. You can re-develop with the lights on.  The negative 
will now have a pyro stain.Wash and dry the negative, and then scan it 
again.  Which gave the best result, the regular or stained negative?

Peter

I've been shooting apx100 rollfilm, develop in rodinal 50:1 and add 1 
tsp of Sodium Ascorbate per half liter liquid.  I got this idea from 
Patrick Gainer's articles in Photo Techniques magazine.  I get great 
4800dpi scans and print with epson 4000 uc inks.  I used to print with 
the roark workflow on an 1160 with MIS-VM ink.  Excellent with both 
printers.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "richmellor1" 
<richmellor@h...> wrote:

> I have been  shooting analog film apx100. developed in rodinal.
> scanned into photoshop. with the print made using mis inks.
> this is done with the paul roark workflow.I will be trying a new 
> combination of film and developer. the new film is aristia.edu,ultra
> {foma 100}. The developer will be pmk pyro.this is a staining 
> developer.If anyone is left that still captures on film would 
> like to hear your film/developer combos for this print workflow.

> ... If anyone is left that still captures on film would
> like to hear your film/developer combos for this print workflow.
> 

I prefer medium format Tech Pan with the Technidol developer.  I develop it
to a higher contrast than an enlarger would be happy with, and this helps
overcome some of the problems of the un-evenness we used to fight with TP at
low contrast. 

Of course, Kodak cancelled my film.  I've scrounged 90 rolls and developer
packs.  But, when I'm out of those, I don't know what I'll do.  I'm not
thrilled with MF 100 ISO film grain, but the staining developers might be
able to help  there.  

Frankly I assume digital will be ready by the time I run out of TP.  That is
why I'm on that learning curve now.  Hopefully we'll have solved the dynamic
range and other problems by the time I run out of my favored film.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Ive since sold my nikon 8000, but I recntly used to shoot hp5
and develop in a product called Dixactol.
This is a pyro like dev, which was formualted and sold by a guy named
Barry Thornton. The poor fellow died in the last year or two, and so
did his website along with him.
The formula may be avail from photographer foundry, not sure though.
It was an amazing developer. Produced incredible edge sharpening and
tonal range that was spectacular...
Also, I once used another of his products for techpan, called
techxactol or soemthing like that....WOW WOW.
This opened shadows a bit, but the detail level was ridiculous.
Too bad\, it does  not appear to be available
Frank




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Unger"
<ungram@v...> wrote:

> I've been shooting apx100 rollfilm, develop in rodinal 50:1 and add 1 
> tsp of Sodium Ascorbate per half liter liquid.  I got this idea from 
> Patrick Gainer's articles in Photo Techniques magazine.  I get great 
> 4800dpi scans and print with epson 4000 uc inks.  I used to print with 
> the roark workflow on an 1160 with MIS-VM ink.  Excellent with both 
> printers.
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "richmellor1" 
> <richmellor@h...> wrote:
> > I have been  shooting analog film apx100. developed in rodinal.
> > scanned into photoshop. with the print made using mis inks.
> > this is done with the paul roark workflow.I will be trying a new 
> > combination of film and developer. the new film is aristia.edu,ultra
> > {foma 100}. The developer will be pmk pyro.this is a staining 
> > developer.If anyone is left that still captures on film would 
> > like to hear your film/developer combos for this print workflow.

I shoot a couple of file/developer combinations.  I caught the RF and
Leica bug a year or so ago, and shoot all 135 format (thought I have
MF dreams).  I shoot with 21, 28, 35, 50 and 90 lenses, typically
with a yellow/green or yellow filter.  28/50 is my sweet spot shooting
combo on two M6TTL's.

FP4+ in Acutol 1:15. New combo for me, and so far lovely results.
Lower density and contrast negs. Slightly finer grain and better shadows
than Rodinal.  I do still like FP4+ in Rodinal 1:50, though - just has a
certain look.  I wonder why Acutol isn't more popular? Lovely developer.

HP5+ at EI 320 and 800 in HC-110 dilution (H) 1:63. Again, nice
contrast control and good grain with 1 inversion every 2 minutes.

Delta 100 in HC-110 (H). This is a new film for me. Acutol also
produced nice negatives with this film. I've read that most any developer
will produce similar negs with Delta 100, and so far, I'm likely to
agree.  The film base seems thinner than FP4+ and HP5+, and seems
to attract more dust.  But otherwise, it scans very nicely. 

I shot some TMX last year, and so far I prefer Delta 100. Much less
finicky and the scanned images seem to have a much more "traditional"
look to them (but with very fine grain).

I just bought 20 rolls of APX100, but it's sitting in my freezer. I'm
likely to soup it in Rodinal, the "classic combo" for this film as far as I
can tell.

I have a bottle of Clayton F76 that Clayton nicely shipped to me in
a sample box of their chems.  Once I get the Delta 100 "down", I'll
crack this open and give it  a try.  Googling about, it seems that folks
that have tried F76 really, really like it.

I scan my negs on a Nikon Coolscan V using both NikonScan and
Vue Scan, process in PictureWindow Pro (PWP), and print on a C86
with the EZ inks, and just lately a 2200 with the Epson UC inks and QTR.

Scott

Chris Aitken wrote:

> > I have been  shooting analog film apx100. developed in rodinal.
> > scanned into photoshop. with the print made using mis inks.
> > this is done with the paul roark workflow.I will be trying a
> > new combination of film and developer. the new film is
> > aristia.edu,ultra {foma 100}. The developer will be pmk
> > pyro.this is a staining developer.If anyone is left that
> > still captures on film would like to hear your film/developer
> > combos for this print workflow.
>
> I shoot HP5, and develop mainly in ID11/D76, and am about to try some
> IlfoSol tonight. I aim to print on a C86 using MIS neutral inks (and 
> ilford
> gallerie gloss smooth) as & when I have saved enough!
>
> Chris
>
>