Digital BW, The Print

Hi,

My question is off topic, but I am hoping someone can point me in the 
right direction.

This black and white forum has been instrumental in helping me with 
my printing skills. Now, I am interesting in finding an Internet 
group that deals with imaging and Photoshop issues for Black and 
White photography.

I have an image I've been working on that I would like to post for 
constructive feedback. I'd be happy to offer similar feedback to 
anyone in search of the same thing.

Please email offline if you know of a group or if you would be 
interested in exchanging feedback with me on images.

Here is one of my images:

http://sinai.smugmug.com/gallery/607696/1/25652684

Thanks,
David

Gary

there are 4 rules for operation. The most important is that we want
accountability for the posts a member makes hence the use of real names and
not nicks. The rest of the rules are quite normal - example for posting of
photos the comment on 1 to allow a new post is used in most photocritic
places and the request to read the FAQ's . I think you are over reacting
when you say too many rules. I just read the bottom of each and every email
from yahoo groups - grin there sure is a lot of rules listed there.

There are banners simply because the site has to be self funding - the group
of individuals behind this effort cannot support this from out of their own
pocket indefinitely. Epson is one of the sponsers of this and we have to
allow them the means to justify their support - ie the old question of what
do I get if I sponser you for this. Even Yahoo groups has pop ups if you
read on line. Unfortunately there is no free lunch in most cases in the real
world.

last point this goes out via the group simply because you did not want to
reflect a email reply address for me to send to - ie  taking it off  list.

ellery

  -----Original Message-----
  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Gary Brown
  Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 7:05 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Critiquing Images (Off topic)


  Went to "Circle of Light"

  Way to many rules, and there are ads on the site.

  IMO this site deserves a pass.

  Gary


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If there is such a forum, please post responses to the list.

I'd be very interested in such a B&W digi forum as well, covering
hopefully B&W scanning as well as image manipulation.

I find there are a number of issues particular to B&W digital images
and scanned B&W film images. A forum (vs. a mailing list) with the
ability to upload images would be really ideal!

Scott

David Sinai wrote:

> Hi,
>
> My question is off topic, but I am hoping someone can point me in the
> right direction.
>
> This black and white forum has been instrumental in helping me with
> my printing skills. Now, I am interesting in finding an Internet
> group that deals with imaging and Photoshop issues for Black and
> White photography.
>
> I have an image I've been working on that I would like to post for
> constructive feedback. I'd be happy to offer similar feedback to
> anyone in search of the same thing.
>
> Please email offline if you know of a group or if you would be
> interested in exchanging feedback with me on images.
>
> Here is one of my images:
>
> http://sinai.smugmug.com/gallery/607696/1/25652684
>
> Thanks,
> David
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd 
> AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Yahoo! Groups Links*
>
>     * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
>     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>       DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>       <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>     * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>

Went to "Circle of Light"

Way to many rules, and there are ads on the site.

IMO this site deserves a pass.

Gary

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ellery" <ellery@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 11:14 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Critiquing Images (Off topic)


David

You try this site - we are new and are trying to promote black and white
irregardless of your medium.

Hi....all B&W photoenthusiasts,

You may not have known that the Circle Of Light online forum has started. We
welcome all of you to post and signup into the online forum. The forum is a
free for all forum that we hope to bring the B&W photoenthusiasts to
photoenthusiats together. Do drop in a take a look and better still show
case yr latest work online for constructive critiques from fellow members.

Some points to note when u sign up for the forum:

1.  Pls use yr real name and surname to register. Any nicknmae used will be
suspended by the web admin. We're tryint to promote transparency among the
members, so wehope to get yr cooperation to use your real name for
registration.

2.  To encourage constructive critiques and exchange of knowledge, you are
required to post at least 02 critique per day before you can start a new
thread under your name. This mean u must have shared yr 2 critiques for
somebody's post before u can start your own thread.

3.  Be constructive. Pls give comments that wouldhelp your fellow friends
learn and growth. Refrain from use phrases like Good!, Nice pic, thumbs up,
solid etc. Think again, what do you benefit or learn from such general
comments given by yr fren over the forum.

BTW, there is in plan a big launch party for the Circle of Light to be held
in August05. There will be food, drinks and products showcase and guest
speaker talks during the event. Will give more details when we have
confirmed all the details. Do watch out for the news in the forum :
www.ecircleoflight.org

Hope to see you online. Do pass the word around to your friends to join in
our community. We need all yr support to get the movement going.

Cheers
Jeffrey Yap
for the COL team

  -----Original Message-----
  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of David
Sinai
  Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 11:52 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Critiquing Images (Off topic)


  Hi,

  My question is off topic, but I am hoping someone can point me in the
  right direction.

  This black and white forum has been instrumental in helping me with
  my printing skills. Now, I am interesting in finding an Internet
  group that deals with imaging and Photoshop issues for Black and
  White photography.

  I have an image I've been working on that I would like to post for
  constructive feedback. I'd be happy to offer similar feedback to
  anyone in search of the same thing.

  Please email offline if you know of a group or if you would be
  interested in exchanging feedback with me on images.

  Here is one of my images:

  http://sinai.smugmug.com/gallery/607696/1/25652684

  Thanks,
  David





  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.




----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  Yahoo! Groups Links

    a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/

    b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and 
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU 
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY 
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY 
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Scott McLoughlin
<scott@a...> wrote:
 
> I find there are a number of issues particular to B&W digital images
> and scanned B&W film images. A forum (vs. a mailing list) with the
> ability to upload images would be really ideal!
> 
> Scott
> 
We all know that the finality of this list is the b&w digital print.
But I have to wonder if David's post is really far off topic because
his post pertains to the making of a b&w image, hopefully for printing.

This is the kind of subject I'd like to see discussed here. I'm sure
there's room for it. 

Your comments would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
André

Well have a nice photo ready to print, via my new C86,
using Gimp for Mac OS X version 2.2.6

One problem even thou I did select the new printer (C86) in the gimp printer
listing, CAN¹T Print Nothing, sure in MAC OS X desktop, or other application 
can print... So far NO GO with GIMP.

So, have to Ask anyone ???? using the same setup
please help.

Mac OS X 10.3.9
Gimp 2.2.6
Epson Printer C86 installed driver (USB)

Can print, via any other application expect Gimp.
Regards-


Richard

Well have a nice photo ready to print, via my new C86,
using Gimp for Mac OS X version 2.2.6

One problem even thou I did select the new printer (C86) in the gimp printer
listing, CAN¹T Print Nothing, sure in MAC OS X desktop, or other application 
can print... So far NO GO with GIMP.

So, have to Ask anyone ???? using the same setup
please help.

Mac OS X 10.3.9
Gimp 2.2.6
Epson Printer C86 installed driver (USB)

Can print, via any other application expect Gimp.
Regards-


Richard

I just noticed MIS released a new inkset called the MIS Pro Archival Inkset:
http://www.inksupply.com/arcink_mispro.cfm

There is no information on how these inks are better the the Archival 7600
inks, how they perform in regards to bronzing, what their gamut is like
compared to Epson or Archival 7600 inks or how archival they actually are.

Do any of you have more information about these inks? I'll be sending a copy
of these questions to MIS too. I'll post back when they reply.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

Daniel Staver wrote:

>I just noticed MIS released a new inkset called the MIS Pro Archival Inkset:
>http://www.inksupply.com/arcink_mispro.cfm
>
>There is no information on how these inks are better the the Archival 7600
>inks, how they perform in regards to bronzing, what their gamut is like
>compared to Epson or Archival 7600 inks or how archival they actually are.
>
>Do any of you have more information about these inks? I'll be sending a copy
>of these questions to MIS too. I'll post back when they reply.
>
>--
>Daniel Staver
>http://daniel.staver.no 
>
>
>
>  
>
I have seen that too and wondered whether it means better gloss.

Ernst

> I have seen that too and wondered whether it means better gloss.

The Archival 7600 inks mottle on glossy papers. Maybe the new inks solves
this problem? I'm also hoping that the inkset solves the settling issues I
mentioned in another post.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

I thought it was just a clone of the Epson Durabrite inks that have  
been in use for some time in the C series printers.  I don't know why  
MIS is promoting use of the Durabrite ink in the UC printers.
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/DuraBrite/DuraBriteMain.jsp? 
BV_UseBVCookie=yes

Carl

On Jun 30, 2005, at 8:26 AM, Daniel Staver wrote:

>> I have seen that too and wondered whether it means better gloss.
>>
>
> The Archival 7600 inks mottle on glossy papers. Maybe the new inks  
> solves
> this problem? I'm also hoping that the inkset solves the settling  
> issues I
> mentioned in another post.
>
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines”  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield 
<scho@m...> wrote:
> I thought it was just a clone of the Epson Durabrite inks that 
have  
> been in use for some time in the C series printers.  I don't know 
why  
> MIS is promoting use of the Durabrite ink in the UC printers.
> http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/DuraBrite/DuraBriteMain.jsp? 
> BV_UseBVCookie=yes
> 
> Carl
> 


Nope it's new and different. And if my suspicions are correct, I've 
been using it for months, but no one was interested on the numerous 
times I put up some information. I'm sure this MIS version has been 
fiddled with, and I'm positive they will deny that these are the same 
inks, or even using the same inks for the base material. They even 
gave me a hard time trying to buy the other inks from them after the 
manufacturer sent me to MIS to buy it in smaller quantities. Just 
leads me to think that these are the exact same inks that I've been 
using for many months. I've lost a lot of respect for MIS.

If anyone decides to buy these, I would like to get a sample (less 
than an ounce) of the full cyan and full magenta inks to compare with 
what I'm using. Thanks, Greg.

> Nope it's new and different. And if my suspicions are 
> correct, I've been using it for months, but no one was 
> interested on the numerous times I put up some information. 

I'm interested. How are those inks working out for you? What's the gamut
like? How do they perform on various media? Any settling or clogging
problems?

> If anyone decides to buy these, I would like to get a sample 
> (less than an ounce) of the full cyan and full magenta inks 
> to compare with what I'm using. Thanks, Greg.

I might buy them, but I need more information and preferably a second
opinion first... I've posted some detailed questions to MIS. I'll wait and
see what they have to say first.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

My too
thanks


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Staver" 
<daniel@p...> wrote:
> > Nope it's new and different. And if my suspicions are 
> > correct, I've been using it for months, but no one was 
> > interested on the numerous times I put up some information. 
> 
> I'm interested. How are those inks working out for you? What's the 
gamut
> like? How do they perform on various media? Any settling or clogging
> problems?
> 
> > If anyone decides to buy these, I would like to get a sample 
> > (less than an ounce) of the full cyan and full magenta inks 
> > to compare with what I'm using. Thanks, Greg.
> 
> I might buy them, but I need more information and preferably a 
second
> opinion first... I've posted some detailed questions to MIS. I'll 
wait and

> see what they have to say first.
> 
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no

dfaprinting wrote:

>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield 
><scho@m...> wrote:
>  
>
>>I thought it was just a clone of the Epson Durabrite inks that 
>>    
>>
>have  
>  
>
>>been in use for some time in the C series printers.  I don't know 
>>    
>>
>why  
>  
>
>>MIS is promoting use of the Durabrite ink in the UC printers.
>>http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/DuraBrite/DuraBriteMain.jsp? 
>>BV_UseBVCookie=yes
>>
>>Carl
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>Nope it's new and different. And if my suspicions are correct, I've 
>been using it for months, but no one was interested on the numerous 
>times I put up some information. I'm sure this MIS version has been 
>fiddled with, and I'm positive they will deny that these are the same 
>inks, or even using the same inks for the base material. They even 
>gave me a hard time trying to buy the other inks from them after the 
>manufacturer sent me to MIS to buy it in smaller quantities. Just 
>leads me to think that these are the exact same inks that I've been 
>using for many months. I've lost a lot of respect for MIS.
>
>If anyone decides to buy these, I would like to get a sample (less 
>than an ounce) of the full cyan and full magenta inks to compare with 
>what I'm using. Thanks, Greg.
>
>  
>
You have written about it but I got the idea it was about the MIS 7600 
inks. That most of the UC clones have the same background isn't new so I 
didn't bother to check it further.  I asked MIS today specifically what 
the difference was between the MIS 7600 and the Pro Archival. The answer 
was: the new MIS PRO ink is more compatible when compared to the Epson 
inks.I have enclosed A link below that has lots of info on the new 
formula as well.

http://www.inksupply.com/arcink_mispro.cfm

Which is the link we already had.

However if you read the MIS 7600 information next to the Pro Archival 
information then there's hardly any difference to find. I tend to think 
that the better compatibility is in the name they gave it: Pro Archival 
suits the total range of Pro printers better than MIS 7600.

Ernst

Ernst,

Note that the Ink Properties paragraph has been removed from the new  
Pro page that you provided a link for.  The original (7600) ink  
properties paragraph read as follows and Daniel should note the  
comment about the inks NOT settling:

Ink Properties-
Our preliminary fade testing shows that our inks out last the Epson  
inks when exposed to Miami Sunlight for prolonged periods of time (400 
+ hours). We have not concluded all of our side by side testing, but  
we are confident that our inks are as good or better than the Epson  
inks in terms of fade resistance.

The inks have a 2 year, room temperature, shelf life, and will not  
settle or fall out during this period. You do not have to shake our  
inks before installing a cartridge in the printer. We have not  
experienced any clogging or performance problems with our inks in  
Epson cartridges, or in aftermarket cartrdiges. These inks have a  
high pigment load and are therefore more expensive to manufacture.


On Jun 30, 2005, at 2:30 PM, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

> dfaprinting wrote:
>
>
>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield
>> <scho@m...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I thought it was just a clone of the Epson Durabrite inks that
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> have
>>
>>
>>
>>> been in use for some time in the C series printers.  I don't know
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> why
>>
>>
>>
>>> MIS is promoting use of the Durabrite ink in the UC printers.
>>> http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/DuraBrite/DuraBriteMain.jsp?
>>> BV_UseBVCookie=yes
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Nope it's new and different. And if my suspicions are correct, I've
>> been using it for months, but no one was interested on the numerous
>> times I put up some information. I'm sure this MIS version has been
>> fiddled with, and I'm positive they will deny that these are the same
>> inks, or even using the same inks for the base material. They even
>> gave me a hard time trying to buy the other inks from them after the
>> manufacturer sent me to MIS to buy it in smaller quantities. Just
>> leads me to think that these are the exact same inks that I've been
>> using for many months. I've lost a lot of respect for MIS.
>>
>> If anyone decides to buy these, I would like to get a sample (less
>> than an ounce) of the full cyan and full magenta inks to compare with
>> what I'm using. Thanks, Greg.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> You have written about it but I got the idea it was about the MIS 7600
> inks. That most of the UC clones have the same background isn't new  
> so I
> didn't bother to check it further.  I asked MIS today specifically  
> what
> the difference was between the MIS 7600 and the Pro Archival. The  
> answer
> was: the new MIS PRO ink is more compatible when compared to the Epson
> inks.I have enclosed A link below that has lots of info on the new
> formula as well.
>
> http://www.inksupply.com/arcink_mispro.cfm
>
> Which is the link we already had.
>
> However if you read the MIS 7600 information next to the Pro Archival
> information then there's hardly any difference to find. I tend to  
> think
> that the better compatibility is in the name they gave it: Pro  
> Archival
> suits the total range of Pro printers better than MIS 7600.
>
> Ernst
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For anyone following the thread re: golden varnish I
found the website for golden paints
www.goldenpaint.com and they say the Golden Archival
Varnish is standard Golden Varnish thinned and mixed
with a propellant for use in aerosol cans.

Woody Spedden

--- Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
Carl Schofield wrote:

>Ernst,
>
>Note that the Ink Properties paragraph has been
removed from the new  
>Pro page that you provided a link for.  The original
(7600) ink  
>properties paragraph read as follows and Daniel
should note the  
>comment about the inks NOT settling:
>
>Ink Properties-
>Our preliminary fade testing shows that our inks out
last the Epson  
>inks when exposed to Miami Sunlight for prolonged
periods of time (400 
>+ hours). We have not concluded all of our side by
side testing, but  
>we are confident that our inks are as good or better
than the Epson  
>inks in terms of fade resistance.
>
>The inks have a 2 year, room temperature, shelf life,
and will not  
>settle or fall out during this period. You do not
have to shake our  
>inks before installing a cartridge in the printer. We
have not  
>experienced any clogging or performance problems with
our inks in  
>Epson cartridges, or in aftermarket cartrdiges. These
inks have a  
>high pigment load and are therefore more expensive to
manufacture.
>
>  
>
I have used the MIS 7600 inks almost a year now in the
10000  and like 
with all pigment inks a regulary shake is wise.
The price of the MIS 7600 and the Pro Archival is
exactly the same.
So far I see no differences than the name, a part of
the text at the 
bottom (+ the red and blue inks) isn't included in the
Pro Archival 
information but the rest is very much alike.

Ernst


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Carl Schofield wrote:

>Ernst,
>
>Note that the Ink Properties paragraph has been removed from the new  
>Pro page that you provided a link for.  The original (7600) ink  
>properties paragraph read as follows and Daniel should note the  
>comment about the inks NOT settling:
>
>Ink Properties-
>Our preliminary fade testing shows that our inks out last the Epson  
>inks when exposed to Miami Sunlight for prolonged periods of time (400 
>+ hours). We have not concluded all of our side by side testing, but  
>we are confident that our inks are as good or better than the Epson  
>inks in terms of fade resistance.
>
>The inks have a 2 year, room temperature, shelf life, and will not  
>settle or fall out during this period. You do not have to shake our  
>inks before installing a cartridge in the printer. We have not  
>experienced any clogging or performance problems with our inks in  
>Epson cartridges, or in aftermarket cartrdiges. These inks have a  
>high pigment load and are therefore more expensive to manufacture.
>
>  
>
I have used the MIS 7600 inks almost a year now in the 10000  and like 
with all pigment inks a regulary shake is wise.
The price of the MIS 7600 and the Pro Archival is exactly the same.
So far I see no differences than the name, a part of the text at the 
bottom (+ the red and blue inks) isn't included in the Pro Archival 
information but the rest is very much alike.

Ernst

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla 
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:

> 
> However if you read the MIS 7600 information next to the Pro 
Archival 
> information then there's hardly any difference to find. I tend to 
think 
> that the better compatibility is in the name they gave it: Pro 
Archival 
> suits the total range of Pro printers better than MIS 7600.
> 
> Ernst

If it was just a different name, then they would have said "formerly 
MIS XXXX".

I read the info on the MIS site the other day too, it really had very 
little of anything there. The information about being more compatible 
with the Epson inks leads me to believe that these are the same inks 
that I use, however I don't think the colors are the same as what I'm 
using. On many papers, the full cyan hits the b* axis dead on, and 
the magenta hits the a* axis (L*a*b*). The light cyan and magenta are 
really a medium color. I don't think you can use them to produce 
great results with the Epson driver, at least not the 9500 epson 
driver. I know MIS have tested the same inks I use, Marc (from MIS) 
told me they were. The manufacturer told me to try and get samples 
from MIS (which of course didn't happen). When I tried to buy more 
from MIS, they gave me a hard time, even though I know they could 
have "ordered" them special for me. The big clue will be if the inks 
smell different from the old inks and different from Eboni. As soon 
as you open a bottle, you should notice the difference.

You can buy what I'm using from WeInk under the name of Chromium Pro, 
these are not for everyone, you will need a RIP to take advantage of 
their gamut (again at least with a 9500). Features are increased 
gloss for all the inks (excluding matte black), including photo 
black*. Lower dot gain giving even the older printers smaller dots 
(noticeably smaller in my 9500). Super concentrated, so you use less 
ink (theory, but makes sense). Improved gamut on gloss/semi, maybe 
more gamut on matte papers (waiting for a change in the RIP driver to 
finalize my thoughts).

Other benefits include being able to ask the real manufacturer what 
product to use to dilute the inks. Yellows, oranges, and reds are 
great. Black (matte) is very similar to Eboni in some ways, better in 
others. Clogging is about the same as most other third party inks, 
now that it's humid here, I've had no problems even after several 
days of no printing. Flow through my CIS was noticeably better than 
the previous inks.

* The photo black may require things like slow printing to get the 
most benefits. Putting the ink down too fast yields a lighter black 
because you have to use less ink. Theory is that uni-directional 
printing, and maybe a slight pause between passes will increase 
density, and give a better gloss. I won't be testing the photo black 
anymore, testing that reminded me of why I prefer matte papers. I'll 
only be using the photo black to make lighter shades, and then only 
if I can't get what I want from lighter mixes of the matte black. On 
some luster papers, you may have a problem where the inks are far too 
glossy as compared to the paper. I never checked a true gloss paper.

These inks have been a challenge. I did however just buy 500ml each, 
so I'll be with them for a while.

>If it was just a different name, then they would have said "formerly 
>MIS XXXX".
>  
>
Yes, that's what you would expect then.

But if the inks have all the nice features you mention (and I take your 
word for it) why on earth don't they tell us that instead of adding 
information to that ink that is an exact match to the text of the MIS 
7600 but the tail cut off.

The MIS answer to my question didn't help either.  More compatible ....

MIS has tried the same ink but you are using that ink from another 
supplier, yet the colors of MIS and your ink are not the same, you can't 
get from MIS what you are using right now  and you probably never used 
the MIS 7600 inks ............ I'm sure it is correct but I find it 
confusing, I think I will wait for some months to see what is what exactly.

There's no urge either I have to say. I will add the Epson Photo Black 
that I already have to the MIS 7600 set in my 10000 for gloss printing 
and that's good enough for the moment. The MIS 7600 color inks have 
enough gloss on Fuji-Hunt.

Ernst

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla 
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
> 
> >If it was just a different name, then they would have said "formerly 
> >MIS XXXX".
> >  
> >
> Yes, that's what you would expect then.
> 
> But if the inks have all the nice features you mention (and I take 
your 
> word for it) why on earth don't they tell us that instead of adding 
> information to that ink that is an exact match to the text of the MIS 
> 7600 but the tail cut off.

I really would like to compare these MIS inks to what I'm using now to 
see if/what differences there are. But I'm not going to buy them, 
especially since they give very little description of what's new or 
better. Maybe it is just a name change, and the will be adding a light 
light black to them, not really sure.

One thing to do would be to compare the L*a*b* values of the full 7600 
cyan and magenta to what I'm using. Maybe printed on a Hahnemuhle 
paper. It would need to be from a linearization test strip from a RIP, 
not from the RGB driver. Compared to the MIS GP Archival inks, the ink 
I'm using now is very different.

David

You try this site - we are new and are trying to promote black and white
irregardless of your medium.

Hi....all B&W photoenthusiasts,

You may not have known that the Circle Of Light online forum has started. We
welcome all of you to post and signup into the online forum. The forum is a
free for all forum that we hope to bring the B&W photoenthusiasts to
photoenthusiats together. Do drop in a take a look and better still show
case yr latest work online for constructive critiques from fellow members.

Some points to note when u sign up for the forum:

1.  Pls use yr real name and surname to register. Any nicknmae used will be
suspended by the web admin. We're tryint to promote transparency among the
members, so wehope to get yr cooperation to use your real name for
registration.

2.  To encourage constructive critiques and exchange of knowledge, you are
required to post at least 02 critique per day before you can start a new
thread under your name. This mean u must have shared yr 2 critiques for
somebody's post before u can start your own thread.

3.  Be constructive. Pls give comments that wouldhelp your fellow friends
learn and growth. Refrain from use phrases like Good!, Nice pic, thumbs up,
solid etc. Think again, what do you benefit or learn from such general
comments given by yr fren over the forum.

BTW, there is in plan a big launch party for the Circle of Light to be held
in August05. There will be food, drinks and products showcase and guest
speaker talks during the event. Will give more details when we have
confirmed all the details. Do watch out for the news in the forum :
www.ecircleoflight.org

Hope to see you online. Do pass the word around to your friends to join in
our community. We need all yr support to get the movement going.

Cheers
Jeffrey Yap
for the COL team

  -----Original Message-----
  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of David
Sinai
  Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 11:52 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Critiquing Images (Off topic)


  Hi,

  My question is off topic, but I am hoping someone can point me in the
  right direction.

  This black and white forum has been instrumental in helping me with
  my printing skills. Now, I am interesting in finding an Internet
  group that deals with imaging and Photoshop issues for Black and
  White photography.

  I have an image I've been working on that I would like to post for
  constructive feedback. I'd be happy to offer similar feedback to
  anyone in search of the same thing.

  Please email offline if you know of a group or if you would be
  interested in exchanging feedback with me on images.

  Here is one of my images:

  http://sinai.smugmug.com/gallery/607696/1/25652684

  Thanks,
  David





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