Digital BW, The Print

I just started printing my images with an Epson R300 printer, via 
Photoshop and an Ilford profile for Ilford Galleria Classic Pearl 
paper.  The color prints are excellent and very close match to the 
images on the monitor but all my efforst to print B&W and toned 
prints (my main medium)results in a green color cast.  I understand 
metermerism is a common problem with dye based inks, hence the color 
cast.

I am considering an Epson C86 printer fitted with MIS ultratone B&W 
carbon based inks.  I searched the archives at this forum in an 
effort to find a thread that indicates prints made with this printer 
and MIS inks are: "great", "OK", etc.  In addition I visited the MIS 
website and Paul Roark's site and did my research.

I have no idea if I will be satisfied with prints made with the C86 
and MIS inks or not - rich blacks, good midtones and bright whites.  
I find myself comparing my old silver gelatin prints to this new 
medium.  I suspect there is no direct comparison between digitally 
printed images and silver gelatin images

Will one of the members be kind enough to post their experience with 
this printer and MIS inks.

Thanks,

Rod

P.S.

The National Gallery of Art in Washington D.C. is hosting an Andre' 
Kerte'sz show spanning 70 years from about 1912 to 1982 - 113 prints -
www.nga.gov .

Hi Rod
 
I am presently using a C84 with MIS, I would say the prints look good but
not exceptional, at least not as good as what I used to get with my 1280.
I hope to be able to get a 2200 soon, as I have killed a succession of 1200
and 1280's with pigment, no gripes against the original equipment design on these,but
it just is not cut for long term reliable use of pigment, so given that a C84/C86 costs
less than a printhead on the 1280, I don't mind considering the whole thing disposable.
It also happens to be faster and quieter than the 1280, however I would not recommend it
for black only, the former yields much better results.
If you don't mind the limitation to letter size only, it is not a bad way to get your feet wet
with b&w on Epsons, the ink sets are also more affordable since this is a 4 color unit.
 
Regards
 
Andrei

tibetanmoon <seagypsy@...> wrote:


I just started printing my images with an Epson R300 printer, via 
Photoshop and an Ilford profile for Ilford Galleria Classic Pearl 
paper.  The color prints are excellent and very close match to the 
images on the monitor but all my efforst to print B&W and toned 
prints (my main medium)results in a green color cast.  I understand 
metermerism is a common problem with dye based inks, hence the color 
cast.

I am considering an Epson C86 printer fitted with MIS ultratone B&W 
carbon based inks.  I searched the archives at this forum in an 
effort to find a thread that indicates prints made with this printer 
and MIS inks are: "great", "OK", etc.  In addition I visited the MIS 
website and Paul Roark's site and did my research.

I have no idea if I will be satisfied with prints made with the C86 
and MIS inks or not - rich blacks, good midtones and bright whites.  
I find myself comparing my old silver gelatin prints to this new 
medium.  I suspect there is no direct comparison between digitally 
printed images and silver gelatin images

Will one of the members be kind enough to post their experience with 
this printer and MIS inks.

Thanks,

Rod

P.S.

The National Gallery of Art in Washington D.C. is hosting an Andre' 
Kerte'sz show spanning 70 years from about 1912 to 1982 - 113 prints -
www.nga.gov .










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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tibetanmoon" 
<seagypsy@a...> wrote:
> After struggling with trying to print b&w with an Epson 2200 with 
poor results, and failing to be able to use QuadTone RIP, I bought 
the C86 and a set of the MIS EZ-N.  I've had the combo for less than 
a week, but am delighted so far. I print on Epson Matte paper and am 
happy with the blacks and whites, but especially with the mid-tones.  
Not having seen your analogue b&w prints, it's hard to say whether 
you'll like the results with MIS inks as much as I do, but I think 
its worth a try.  I picked up a C86 at Best Buy for $69 (after a $20 
rebate) and then was given an additonal store credit of $20  
Certainly the best buy I've made in computer/accesories thus far!  So 
I would say, go for it.  Ned     
> 
> I just started printing my images with an Epson R300 printer, via 
> Photoshop and an Ilford profile for Ilford Galleria Classic Pearl 
> paper.  The color prints are excellent and very close match to the 
> images on the monitor but all my efforst to print B&W and toned 
> prints (my main medium)results in a green color cast.  I understand 
> metermerism is a common problem with dye based inks, hence the 
color 
> cast.
> 
> I am considering an Epson C86 printer fitted with MIS ultratone B&W 
> carbon based inks.  I searched the archives at this forum in an 
> effort to find a thread that indicates prints made with this 
printer 
> and MIS inks are: "great", "OK", etc.  In addition I visited the 
MIS 
> website and Paul Roark's site and did my research.
> 
> I have no idea if I will be satisfied with prints made with the C86 
> and MIS inks or not - rich blacks, good midtones and bright 
whites.  
> I find myself comparing my old silver gelatin prints to this new 
> medium.  I suspect there is no direct comparison between digitally 
> printed images and silver gelatin images
> 
> Will one of the members be kind enough to post their experience 
with 
> this printer and MIS inks.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rod
> 
> P.S.
> 
> The National Gallery of Art in Washington D.C. is hosting an Andre' 
> Kerte'sz show spanning 70 years from about 1912 to 1982 - 113 
prints -
> www.nga.gov .

==-----Original Message-----
==From: mastedward [mailto:mastedward@...] 

==> After struggling with trying to print b&w with an Epson 2200 with
==poor results, and failing to be able to use QuadTone RIP, I 
==bought the C86 and a set of the MIS EZ-N.  I've had the combo 
==for less than a week, but am delighted so far. I print on 
==Epson Matte paper and am happy with the blacks and whites, 
==but especially with the mid-tones.  

GLAD to hear that.  I just put Eboni in my C82 to play "Digital Tri-X" and
have been really happy.

I was getting ready to order the other carts and convert it to total B&W.
You threw a wrench in it.

Should I get carts and refill them? Or, should I just CFS the whole thing
and be  done with it.

==> 
==> I just started printing my images with an Epson R300 printer, via 
==> Photoshop and an Ilford profile for Ilford Galleria Classic Pearl 
==> paper.  The color prints are excellent and very close match to the 
==> images on the monitor but all my efforst to print B&W and 
==toned prints 
==> (my main medium)results in a green color cast.  I understand 
==> metermerism is a common problem with dye based inks, hence the
==color 
==> cast.

I love the pearl paper also.  I think all the non-Epson papers have the same
problem.  We all know the "works with all inkjets" is sales hype.  Different
inks give different results.  Heck, I got magenta casts with Pearl.  I found
I had to change the "holy" work flow and dump ICM in favor of the color
controls, them save them by paper name.

Now I have become a firm fan of Hawk Mountain paper over Epson.  Just seems
to be a tad more punch.

Seth

Greetings,

The 1280 should arrive in the Big Brown Truck any day. I ordered it
specifically for BO with Eboni. Is there anything I should know/do to
prevent "death by pigment"?

Many Thanks

Drime

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Andrei Aderca
<aderca@s...> wrote:
> 
> Hi Rod
>  
> I am presently using a C84 with MIS, I would say the prints look
good but
> not exceptional, at least not as good as what I used to get with my
1280.
> I hope to be able to get a 2200 soon, as I have killed a succession
of 1200
> and 1280's with pigment, no gripes against the original equipment
design on these,but
> it just is not cut for long term reliable use of pigment, 
SNIP

Andrei and Ned:

Thanks for your replies to my request for an opinion about Epson C86 printers equipped with MIS inks.   The C86 and MIS inks are probably the best option for someone who wants to keep costs down.

Perhaps one of the challenges with digital printing is we always compare the end result to silver gelatin prints. This is the standard I use to evaluate my digital prints.  I am starting to realize digital pigment ink prints are a different media than the silver gelatin media.  Both are photographic process but the comparision stops there when comparing one to the other.  The analogy that comes to mine is trying to compare silver gelatin prints to gum bichromate, albumen, bromoils or vandyke brown prints.  All are photographic processes but the resultant print from each process has a different appearance.  It would be interesting to know how photographers 50 years from now will view silver gelatin prints.

Again, thank you for taking the time to help me.

Kind Regards,

Rod

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Seth" 
<seth@m...> wrote:
> I've just ordered the refillable carts for the C86. I don't know 
how well the CFS works, or how difficult it is to maintain.  Perhaps 
others in this group have used that system. . .Edward   
> 
> ==-----Original Message-----
> ==From: mastedward [mailto:mastedward@y...] 
> 
> ==> After struggling with trying to print b&w with an Epson 2200 
with
> ==poor results, and failing to be able to use QuadTone RIP, I 
> ==bought the C86 and a set of the MIS EZ-N.  I've had the combo 
> ==for less than a week, but am delighted so far. I print on 
> ==Epson Matte paper and am happy with the blacks and whites, 
> ==but especially with the mid-tones.  
> 
> GLAD to hear that.  I just put Eboni in my C82 to play "Digital Tri-
X" and
> have been really happy.
> 
> I was getting ready to order the other carts and convert it to 
total B&W.
> You threw a wrench in it.
> 
> Should I get carts and refill them? Or, should I just CFS the whole 
thing
> and be  done with it.
> 
> ==> 
> ==> I just started printing my images with an Epson R300 printer, 
via 
> ==> Photoshop and an Ilford profile for Ilford Galleria Classic 
Pearl 
> ==> paper.  The color prints are excellent and very close match to 
the 
> ==> images on the monitor but all my efforst to print B&W and 
> ==toned prints 
> ==> (my main medium)results in a green color cast.  I understand 
> ==> metermerism is a common problem with dye based inks, hence the
> ==color 
> ==> cast.
> 
> I love the pearl paper also.  I think all the non-Epson papers have 
the same
> problem.  We all know the "works with all inkjets" is sales hype.  
Different
> inks give different results.  Heck, I got magenta casts with 
Pearl.  I found
> I had to change the "holy" work flow and dump ICM in favor of the 
color
> controls, them save them by paper name.
> 
> Now I have become a firm fan of Hawk Mountain paper over Epson.  
Just seems

> to be a tad more punch.
> 
> Seth