Digital BW, The Print

I have been encouraging people like me who are tired of third party monochrome inks 
clogging their printers to let Epson know what B&W products they would like to see Epson 
sell and support.  In my case it would be Cone-like carbon pigment quad tone inks 
without the clogging problems.

Awhile back, I had a very productive conversation with Dan Steinhardt, Marketing Director 
for Epson America.  Dan's own background is in traditional B&W photography, so he 
understands all the reasons why Ultrachrome inks don't cut it for the serious B&W printer.  
He is also familiar with many third party inks and the associated clogging problems.  I 
urge others to contact Dan and, in polite and concise language, make your B&W product 
desires known.  Dan travels to Japan and talks regularly with the powers that be.  
Currently, Epson/Seiko thinks that the market for digital B&W is miniscule.  I wonder what 
they would think if they knew that over 5000 people subscribe to a Yahoo group dedicated 
to that subject!

When I querried Epson via their website, my email was forwarded to Dan, who replied 
promptly.  I later called him on the cell phone number that he provided in his email.  You 
can contact him either way:

Dan_Steinhardt@...
(585) 727-4480

Let Epson know that the digital B&W market is alive and growing!

Joel Pickford

But 5000 is miniscule to Epson. They must sell millions of printers. I 
hate to say it but, it is just smart business to ignore the few.
But who knows......
Mark

On Jan 11, 2005, at 4:25 PM, joelpickford wrote:

> I wonder what
>  they would think if they knew that over 5000 people subscribe to a 
> Yahoo group dedicated
>  to that subject!
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Roy et al

Do the QTR Epson 2200/4000 etc curves utilize all 5 of the Ultrachrome ink
colours or just some of them?

thanks

tim

I think the B&W and color markets will merge sufficiently soon that Epson
will just wait for that to happen.  The best color, after all, needs a B&W
core.  A 4000 with 1.5 picoliter dots and one more spot for Glop can do it
all -- B&W + R800 quality color on glossy or matte paper.  Now that
would/will be a nice machine.

Even when that happens, however, the dedicated B&W inksets will be there to
serve those who do not want to pay Epson's prices and for the purists.  And
Epson, in part by definition, can't serve those folks.

Just my guess ...

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: joelpickford [mailto:joelpickford@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 1:26 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] How to tell Epson what B&W products you'ld like to see
from them



I have been encouraging people like me who are tired of third party
monochrome inks 
clogging their printers to let Epson know what B&W products they would like
to see Epson 
sell and support.  In my case it would be Cone-like carbon pigment quad tone
inks 
without the clogging problems.

Awhile back, I had a very productive conversation with Dan Steinhardt,
Marketing Director 
for Epson America.  Dan's own background is in traditional B&W photography,
so he 
understands all the reasons why Ultrachrome inks don't cut it for the
serious B&W printer.  
He is also familiar with many third party inks and the associated clogging
problems.  I 
urge others to contact Dan and, in polite and concise language, make your
B&W product 
desires known.  Dan travels to Japan and talks regularly with the powers
that be.  
Currently, Epson/Seiko thinks that the market for digital B&W is miniscule.
I wonder what 
they would think if they knew that over 5000 people subscribe to a Yahoo
group dedicated 
to that subject!

When I querried Epson via their website, my email was forwarded to Dan, who
replied 
promptly.  I later called him on the cell phone number that he provided in
his email.  You 
can contact him either way:

Dan_Steinhardt@...
(585) 727-4480

Let Epson know that the digital B&W market is alive and growing!

Joel Pickford







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The K and LK are used with the LM, LC and Y used in varying degrees as
toners -- for the 2200 curves that I have.

Tom Moore

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Atherton [mailto:timatherton@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 4:51 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: roy@...
> Subject: [Digital BW] QTR colour ink utilization
> 
> 
> Roy et al
> 
> Do the QTR Epson 2200/4000 etc curves utilize all 5 of the Ultrachrome ink
> colours or just some of them?

Tim,

Some of the "warm" profiles use only black and light black inks 
(which are naturally warm and give you that warm effect).  Other 
profiles utilize LC, LM, and Y inks.

Lou

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tim Atherton 
<timatherton@t...> wrote:
> Roy et al
> 
> Do the QTR Epson 2200/4000 etc curves utilize all 5 of the 
Ultrachrome ink

> colours or just some of them?
> 
> thanks
> 
> tim

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "joelpickford"
<joelpickford@s...> wrote:
> 
> I have been encouraging people like me who are tired of third party
monochrome inks 
> clogging their printers to let Epson know what B&W products they
would like to see Epson 
> sell and support.  In my case it would be Cone-like carbon pigment
quad tone inks 
> without the clogging problems.
> 
Thanks, but no thanks. I stopped depending on Epson for inksets a long
time ago. If it had not been for Cone, MIS and Paul's work a lot a b&w
inkjet prints would have have happened.

I'm not about to change to Epson's overpriced inksets. And with better
quality control on Epson's part a lot of clogging would have been
prevented.

Andre Moreau

"that over 5000 people subscribe to a Yahoo group
dedicated
to that subject!"

The problem is, when Epson has to recoupe R&D cost plus make a 
profit, 5000 isn't nearly enough. And you know not everyone here 
would be a buyer.

I think the so-called clogs are actually air-pockets in a cartridge.
At least that's my experience with the MIS UT inks.

I can't speak about the Cone or other inks out there.

Scott

Paul,

B&W output from the R800 on Premium Glossy is pretty good. Have any of you 
experts tested it? It has various settings for B&W. So, the A3 version of it 
might do the trick when it arrives here.

Bob Frost.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>



I think the B&W and color markets will merge sufficiently soon that Epson
will just wait for that to happen.  The best color, after all, needs a B&W
core.  A 4000 with 1.5 picoliter dots and one more spot for Glop can do it
all -- B&W + R800 quality color on glossy or matte paper.  Now that
would/will be a nice machine.

I haven't tried it on EPG, but I have on EEM, and was suprised how 
nice it looked . A very slight coolness.

I'll try it with Kirkland later today and tell you what I think.

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Frost" 
<bob@f...> wrote:
> Paul,
> 
> B&W output from the R800 on Premium Glossy is pretty good. Have any 
of you 
> experts tested it? It has various settings for B&W. So, the A3 
version of it 
> might do the trick when it arrives here.
> 
> Bob Frost.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...>
> 
> 
> 
> I think the B&W and color markets will merge sufficiently soon that 
Epson
> will just wait for that to happen.  The best color, after all, 
needs a B&W
> core.  A 4000 with 1.5 picoliter dots and one more spot for Glop 
can do it
> all -- B&W + R800 quality color on glossy or matte paper.  Now that
> would/will be a nice machine.

I always get a greenish cast from my R800 b/w test prints (with UC
ink), even when I ask the printer to do "BO" (with the japanese
driver). Is it just my eyes? 

(I tried BO with japanese driver, Photo-Enhance->Monochrome with
standard driver, and standard ICC workflow)

Michael

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
"scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@y...> wrote:

> 
> I haven't tried it on EPG, but I have on EEM, and was suprised how 
> nice it looked . A very slight coolness.
> 
> I'll try it with Kirkland later today and tell you what I think.

--- Michael Hung <mhkhung@...> wrote:


---------------------------------

I always get a greenish cast from my R800 b/w test
prints (with UC
ink), even when I ask the printer to do "BO" (with the
japanese
driver). Is it just my eyes? 

That green cast (under daylight) is very typical of
Ultrachrome inks.  It wasn't your fault.  The only way
to mitigate is to use a RIP software such as Image
Print, which allows printing B&W from RGB files using
mostly the black and gray inks and just filling in
with a litle bit of color inks to smooth the print
out.  There is no metamerism, no green cast, and the
print is basically a selenium-like cold tone B&W.

OK.. Roy.. Please make QTR works for it.. 
Michael

> That green cast (under daylight) is very typical of
> Ultrachrome inks.  It wasn't your fault.  The only way
> to mitigate is to use a RIP software such as Image
> Print, which allows printing B&W from RGB files using
> mostly the black and gray inks and just filling in
> with a litle bit of color inks to smooth the print
> out.  There is no metamerism, no green cast, and the
> print is basically a selenium-like cold tone B&W.