Digital BW, The Print

All,
I have scoured the past several weeks of posts.  I have been 
scouring the web for information for several months.  I am usually 
quite good about searching and looking before asking.  
However...maybe it's because this is still a relatively new field, 
or because there are so many changes and new techniques, or 
whatever, but I am still not sure where to start.

What I know is that I'd like to be able to do black and white 
printing, with a broad tonal range, with some flexibility in tones, 
without dropping a huge amount of money (ie - getting a 2200 and a 
RIP is out of my range).  

My specific questions are:
1 - the 1280 seems to be the honda civic of printers in terms of 
after-market upgrade options.  is this a sound place to start as a 
base for the system, or am I painting myself into a corner, 
technology-wise?

2 - I think that I'm torn between a Piezography and an MIS VM 
system, with a CIS.  The Piezography is more expensive.  
How "dotless" can the Epson driver get with MIS VM inks?  

3 - Do I give up anything, tonal-range-wise, by going with one 
system over the other?  

I realize that most won't bother with such trivial questions, and I 
apologize for being a newbie.  But I'm trying. 

thanks in advance,
allan chen

I wouldn't trade my 1280 for a 2200. It's just reliable and prints B&W
very well. And the MIS VM inkset works as well(IMHO), is better
supported (IMHO) and is much cheaper (fact)than Piezo. Buy the first
batch of ink in carts. Get the CFS later when ink costs are starting
to get to be a burden. The Peizo dot size is smaller but you need a
lupe to tell. There's just not a visible difference in normal viewing
of prints. 
Bob Michaels

 --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "kaiyen.rm"
<kaiyen@s...> wrote:

> All,
> I have scoured the past several weeks of posts.  I have been 
> scouring the web for information for several months.  I am usually 
> quite good about searching and looking before asking.  
> However...maybe it's because this is still a relatively new field, 
> or because there are so many changes and new techniques, or 
> whatever, but I am still not sure where to start.
> 
> What I know is that I'd like to be able to do black and white 
> printing, with a broad tonal range, with some flexibility in tones, 
> without dropping a huge amount of money (ie - getting a 2200 and a 
> RIP is out of my range).  
> 
> My specific questions are:
> 1 - the 1280 seems to be the honda civic of printers in terms of 
> after-market upgrade options.  is this a sound place to start as a 
> base for the system, or am I painting myself into a corner, 
> technology-wise?
> 
> 2 - I think that I'm torn between a Piezography and an MIS VM 
> system, with a CIS.  The Piezography is more expensive.  
> How "dotless" can the Epson driver get with MIS VM inks?  
> 
> 3 - Do I give up anything, tonal-range-wise, by going with one 
> system over the other?  
> 
> I realize that most won't bother with such trivial questions, and I 
> apologize for being a newbie.  But I'm trying. 
> 
> thanks in advance,
> allan chen

* -----Original Message-----
* From: kaiyen.rm [mailto:kaiyen@...] 
* Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 4:53 PM
* To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
* Subject: [Digital BW] One of those "newbies"
* 
(snip)
* 
* My specific questions are:
* 1 - the 1280 seems to be the honda civic of printers in terms of 
* after-market upgrade options.  is this a sound place to start as a 
* base for the system, or am I painting myself into a corner, 
* technology-wise?

Allan,

From all the prints I have seen, I would have to say that the model of
printer does not seem to play a role in final print quality. Using the
grayscale carbon pigment inks, the quality of prints from the 1280 will be
just as good as the 2100. The person behind the camera and the
computer/printer is the big factor!
* 
* 2 - I think that I'm torn between a Piezography and an MIS VM 
* system, with a CIS.  The Piezography is more expensive.  
* How "dotless" can the Epson driver get with MIS VM inks?

I have used both and find them dot less. The 1280 and other printers do have
a characteristic linear pattern in the direction of head travel in some
tonal ranges but you have to use a loupe to see it. I think the end result
with the Piezo and MIS-VM workflows is equally good. Personally I prefer the
Piezo as I feel I can get to a finished print faster and easier. Ink costs
ultimately are negligible compared to what you wind up spending on paper so
I don't believe that is much of an issue. However, if you want variable hue
than MIS-VM is the way to go with the 1280 at the moment.

If you are on a Mac and go with the VM inks then you should be looking at
the free QuadTone RIP rather than the RGB separation curve workflow.   
* 
* 3 - Do I give up anything, tonal-range-wise, by going with one 
* system over the other?

No.   
* 
* I realize that most won't bother with such trivial questions, and I 
* apologize for being a newbie.  But I'm trying. 

Don't apologize. Occasionally long time users will post the usual "just
search the archives" comment. In reality finding anything in the archive in
any coherent fashion with Yahoo's search engine is pretty tough.

We start the forum in large part to answer questions like yours. So ask
away.

Martin Wesley
http://www.carolyn.cc/Guests/MartinWesley/pages/MW_01.html
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

I can't really add much to Martin's response, except
that the 1280 is an exceptional printer for quadtone
work.  It is a great system when coupled with the R9
(piezography) driver and profiles - which takes much
of the guesswork out of printing.  I've used MIS and
Piezography inks and found little difference in actual
use.

Additionally, the dual toner inkset that Paul is
devising for the 1280 should be a great incentive in
purchasing the printer.  From all looks in the list
files, it should be an interesting (and economical)
inkset to say the least.


> I have used both and find them dot less. The 1280
> and other printers do have
> a characteristic linear pattern in the direction of
> head travel in some
> tonal ranges but you have to use a loupe to see it.
> I think the end result
> with the Piezo and MIS-VM workflows is equally good.
> Personally I prefer the
> Piezo as I feel I can get to a finished print faster
> and easier. Ink costs
> ultimately are negligible compared to what you wind
> up spending on paper so
> I don't believe that is much of an issue. However,
> if you want variable hue
> than MIS-VM is the way to go with the 1280 at the
> moment.
> 


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