Digital BW, The Print

Antonis,

>...the IJC/OPM combo ...
>The big difference from any other bw printing solution
>is the ability to make your own profiles and update them as needed.

This is one reason I have preferred the Photoshop/Epson driver workflow.

How does the control of the inks or curves compare to the Photoshop curves
approach?  (Of course, control of each ink separately in a hextone printer
would be a big improvement.)

If similar curves are used, how many points does the software allow you to
place on a curve?  That is one of the limiting factors in the
Photoshop/Epson workflow.

By the way, I'm doing some final testing on a new Ultra Tone (UT) sepia
toner that will be useable in both the Epson driver workflows and the
Bowhaus system.  It is light enough, due to the already warm nature of the
UT gray inks, that a single toner can reach deep sepia and still be dotless
in the highlights.  With the 1160, the sepia-toned Ultra Tone prints are
dotless even under a loupe.

I am not going to bother with any other vm-s upgrade.  I don't like the idea
of adding color pigments to the gray inks to neutralize them and then adding
more in the form of a toner to pull them to sepia.  The UT carbon midtones
are so solid, I don't want to compromise them.  The IJC approach will now
allow a single hextone to go both ways -- cool and sepia.

I'm waiting patiently (not very) until Bowhaus writes the software for PC.
In the meantime, going from warm (raw UT carbon) to sepia with the 1160 and
3000 is going to have to suffice.  I'll just dedicate my 3000 to that UT
inkset and keep the 7500 with the standard UT inks.  I'll have some curves
(cross-platform) for those who want to use the UT-Sepia variation on the
1160 or 3000.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

my comments below following quotes from your message:


> >...the IJC/OPM combo ...
> >The big difference from any other bw printing solution
> >is the ability to make your own profiles and update them as needed.
> 
> This is one reason I have preferred the Photoshop/Epson driver workflow.

True, your approach offers user-controlled curves (the equivalent of profiles) 
and therefore has the big benefit of not being dependent on outside sources 
for profiles.


> 
> How does the control of the inks or curves compare to the Photoshop curves
> approach?  (Of course, control of each ink separately in a hextone printer
> would be a big improvement.)


When you adjust a file in Photoshop you rearrange the digital values in the 
image itself with whatever perils that may entail (histo combing etc). When you 
physically adjust the amount of ink that the heads put down for a given digital 
value, you have control over the print independent of the image file. Thus 
+-lighten or +- contrast or the shape of the "characteristic curve" of your print  
no longer depends on making changes to the image file.  And since internally, 
IJC / OPM do all calculations in 16 bit (whether you feed an 8 or 16bit tiff) , you 
have very precise control of the output without endangering the image data in 
any way. 



> 
> If similar curves are used, how many points does the software allow you to
> place on a curve?  That is one of the limiting factors in the
> Photoshop/Epson workflow.


The curves in IJC are "similar"  to Photoshop but not the "same as". They 
prevent you from making a sudden break. I believe you can put 20-some 
points, but have never seen the need for the limit. Most profile curves need 
2-3 points plus the 2 end points.  Sometimes 5-6 points in tough situations....



> 
> By the way, I'm doing some final testing on a new Ultra Tone (UT) sepia
> toner that will be useable in both the Epson driver workflows and the
> Bowhaus system.  It is light enough, due to the already warm nature of the
> UT gray inks, that a single toner can reach deep sepia and still be dotless
> in the highlights.  With the 1160, the sepia-toned Ultra Tone prints are
> dotless even under a loupe.


I am aware of the inks, though I haven't seen prints yet, but I am very excited 
about the possibility of a UT -based monochrome inkset. When I get a chance, 
I'll have to do some side-by-side comparisons to see how the RGB workflow 
looks dot-wise next to the OPM-based prints.


> 
> I'm waiting patiently (not very) until Bowhaus writes the software for PC.

I know.... I think there are a lot of people waiting! But bowhaus needs to work 
out any fixes first before they start porting to other  OSs. "Real" user feedback 
is what they need,  besides us beta testers. Meanwhile, for those brave 
enough to buy an old Mac as a (USB) print server, it's good to know that OS 
8.6 and 9 and IJC will run on machines as old as the 8500 (probably dirt 
cheap now, even with a USB card). 

 I'll have some curves
> (cross-platform) for those who want to use the UT-Sepia variation on the
> 1160 or 3000.

The cross-platform aspect of the curves is, of course another bonus for the 
RGB workflow at the moment. 

I actually can't wait for _ you_  to get a hold of IJC and start making UT 
profiles! These are very promising inksets and at the usual reasonable prices 
of MIS.

Regards,


Antonis

It's a pity that gimp-print isn't available for windows, Paul - I think you would love Roy's profile system. It is based on photoshop curves, but is a bit easier to visualize (at least for me.) If you have a linux box at your disposal you might want to give it a whirl, it's pretty neat stuff.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Antonis 
Ricos" <antonisphoto@y...> wrote:

>>I'm waiting patiently (not very) until Bowhaus writes the 
>>software for PC.
> 
>I know.... I think there are a lot of people waiting! But bowhaus 
>needs to work out any fixes first before they start porting to other
 
>OSs. "Real" user feedback is what they need,  besides us beta 
>testers. Meanwhile, for those brave enough to buy an old Mac 
>as a (USB) print server, it's good to know that OS 8.6 and 9 and 
>IJC will run on machines as old as the 8500 (probably dirt 
>cheap now, even with a USB card). 

Speaking as someone working with a trio of just-prior-to-G3 
Macs (with a slightly cranky iMac as the sole exception), and 
working primarily with OS 8.6, I was quite gratified to hear that 
Bowhaus obviously recognized that there is a sizable group of 
people doing serious work on this end of the Macintosh platform, 
and, once I've given the free download a thorough evaluation, I'll 
likely be putting my money (what there is of it at the moment) 
where my OS is and purchase IJC. (And, by the way - the pre-G3, 
PCI-based Power Macs are the most upgradable machines 
Apple produced, and are wonderful for digital imaging work. And, 
indeed, dirt cheap - I have a 9600 awaiting some tweaks right 
now).

- Barrett

Barrett,

one of the machines I routinely use to beta test IJC / OPM is a lowly 8500 
running 9.1 and "upgraded" with a dual 601(?) chipset from a 9500. Slow but 
stable and a good way to use old hardware for printing.  As long as there is 
enough RAM for IJC (it likes approx. 110MB), it runs fine.

Antonis

> Speaking as someone working with a trio of just-prior-to-G3 
> Macs (with a slightly cranky iMac as the sole exception), and 
> working primarily with OS 8.6, I was quite gratified to hear that 
> Bowhaus obviously recognized that there is a sizable group of 
> people doing serious work on this end of the Macintosh platform, 
> and, once I've given the free download a thorough evaluation, I'll 
> likely be putting my money (what there is of it at the moment) 
> where my OS is and purchase IJC. (And, by the way - the pre-G3, 
> PCI-based Power Macs are the most upgradable machines 
> Apple produced, and are wonderful for digital imaging work. And, 
> indeed, dirt cheap - I have a 9600 awaiting some tweaks right 
> now).
> 
> - Barrett

I am a PC user who knows nothing about MACs. Can anyone suggest the 
minimum MAC configuration that might run the IJC software? I would 
also like to run MatchBox which I have a copy of complete with a 
ColorMouse.
I would like to use the mac as a print server on my windows XP based 
ethernet home system.
I was thinking that I might pick up a cheap system on EBAY.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Barry

-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Antonis Ricos" 
<antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> Barrett,
> 
> one of the machines I routinely use to beta test IJC / OPM is a 
lowly 8500 
> running 9.1 and "upgraded" with a dual 601(?) chipset from a 9500. 
Slow but 
> stable and a good way to use old hardware for printing.  As long 
as there is 
> enough RAM for IJC (it likes approx. 110MB), it runs fine.
> 
> Antonis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Speaking as someone working with a trio of just-prior-to-G3 
> > Macs (with a slightly cranky iMac as the sole exception), and 
> > working primarily with OS 8.6, I was quite gratified to hear 
that 
> > Bowhaus obviously recognized that there is a sizable group of 
> > people doing serious work on this end of the Macintosh platform, 
> > and, once I've given the free download a thorough evaluation, 
I'll 

> > likely be putting my money (what there is of it at the moment) 
> > where my OS is and purchase IJC. (And, by the way - the pre-G3, 
> > PCI-based Power Macs are the most upgradable machines 
> > Apple produced, and are wonderful for digital imaging work. And, 
> > indeed, dirt cheap - I have a 9600 awaiting some tweaks right 
> > now).
> > 
> > - Barrett

Barry
Here is a super quick Mac history and recommendation.
In the early mid 90s Mac introduced the Power PC chip.
It was called the 601, then time passed and we got the
604, then by the late 90s we arrived at the G3-made
most popular by the iMac. We are now using the G4,
which will be replaced by the G5 or IBM 701 within the
next year. Okay so you want cheap and usable. I would
stick to anything 604 and beyond. Old 601s are just
too slow. Antonis mentioned he used an 8500, that's a
604. I saw a 9500 (a notch bove the 8500) with a G3
upgrade on ebay yesterday for $50. I would also look
into the "beige" G3s as they are called, again I have
seen cheap ones on ebay. The only glitch in those
older machines is that they do not have USB
connectors, they used ADB, so you would have to get a
USB adaptor to connect the printer. The first native
USB machines are the Bondi Blue iMac and the Blue and
White G3 tower. Prices on those are higher though. 
Hope this helps,
John E

__________________________________________________
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What  John E wrote is right on. 

My dual 1 Gig is in the shop so I'm using my seven year  old Mac 
clone - it's PowerComputing 120 with G3 upgrade card. Also 
look at  the PowerComputing Mac clones.

Apple's  "beige" G3s are built like a tank. The last time I checked 
the beige towers price was around $100 on ebay. Look for the 
tower models as they are the most upgradable.

> Barry
> Here is a super quick Mac history and recommendation.
> In the early mid 90s Mac introduced the Power PC chip.
> It was called the 601, then time passed and we got the
> 604, then by the late 90s we arrived at the G3-made
> most popular by the iMac. We are now using the G4,
> which will be replaced by the G5 or IBM 701 within the
> next year. Okay so you want cheap and usable. I would
> stick to anything 604 and beyond. Old 601s are just
> too slow. Antonis mentioned he used an 8500, that's a
> 604. I saw a 9500 (a notch bove the 8500) with a G3
> upgrade on ebay yesterday for $50. I would also look
> into the "beige" G3s as they are called, again I have
> seen cheap ones on ebay. The only glitch in those
> older machines is that they do not have USB
> connectors, they used ADB, so you would have to get a
> USB adaptor to connect the printer. The first native
> USB machines are the Bondi Blue iMac and the Blue and
> White G3 tower. Prices on those are higher though. 
> Hope this helps,
> John E

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"flyfishingusa2002" <tflyfish@c...> wrote:
>I am a PC user who knows nothing about MACs. Can anyone 
>suggest the minimum MAC configuration that might run the IJC 
>software? I would also like to run MatchBox which I have a copy 
>of complete with a ColorMouse. I would like to use the mac as 
>a print server on my windows XP-based ethernet home system. 
>I was thinking that I might pick up a cheap system on EBAY.

>Any suggestions would be appreciated.

JE's  synopsis of older Mac systems is pretty good. 
Specifically, though, I would advise sticking to PCI Power Macs, 
from the 7300/7500/7600 (8600/9600 in tower format) forward; 
these models are more upgradable (up to 800mHz G4 cards 
and higher for the above models) and have higher RAM capacity. 
Depending on  configuration, they can range in price from $40 
up. (I recently found a clean 9600 with about 160mb RAM and 
4GB HD for $65 in a thrift shop - this is the one with six PCI slots, 
so between that and 1.5gb memory capacity, you could go to 
town).  Remember, however, not to overdo it - a few hundred 
dollars, at most, is plenty to get things up to speed, while still 
saving a bundle over something new.

And, for even more specific info, you can go here:

http://www.lowendmac.com

- Barrett