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B&W Printer

B&W Printer

2016-11-27 by Robert Clark

I realise this question may have been asked many, many times before, and I apologise in advance, but I haven’t been able to search efficiently for an appropriate answer.


I am looking for a reliable printer - 13x19 would be enough, but I could go up to a 17” model. I would like to use a simple black/grey ink set-up, or even a black only set-up that I can use with an appropriate print driver, Roy Harrington's Quadtone RIP <http://www.quadtonerip.com/> would seem to be the sort of thing. I’m not in the US, so that may limit what I can get hold of (I believe the Epson 1430 is not available outside the US anymore).


I’m looking for something that will not clog, looking for inks that are archival and a driver that gives me a completely neutral consistent tone. I am not interested in toning with colour or printing in colour, and would probably print on silk/pearl finish papers, perhaps on matt. Are there good black only processes nowadays that use more than one nozzle for less grainy results?


Could you comment on basic/reliable/cheap to run set ups that nevertheless deliver wide gamut excellent B&W?


cheers,


Robert

Re: [Digital BW] B&W Printer

2016-11-28 by Paul Roark

Is the 1500W still available in your area? I think it's the same as the 1430 in the US.

There are a number of black, including dilute carbon, inksets that will do what you want. I've used HP-PK as a starting point for such, but now use glossy carbon (warm) plus a blend of color pigments to pull it neutral. See, for example, http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Glossy-Carbon-Variable-Tone.pdf .

Good luck with your search.

Paul
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On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 4:23 AM, Robert Clark robertclark@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I realise this question may have been asked many, many times before, and I apologise in advance, but I haven’t been able to search efficiently for an appropriate answer.


I am looking for a reliable printer - 13x19 would be enough, but I could go up to a 17” model. I would like to use a simple black/grey ink set-up, or even a black only set-up that I can use with an appropriate print driver, Roy Harrington's Quadtone RIP would seem to be the sort of thing. I’m not in the US, so that may limit what I can get hold of (I believe the Epson 1430 is not available outside the US anymore).

I’m looking for something that will not clog, looking for inks that are archival and a driver that gives me a completely neutral consistent tone. I am not interested in toning with colour or printing in colour, and would probably print on silk/pearl finish papers, perhaps on matt. Are there good black only processes nowadays that use more than one nozzle for less grainy results?

Could you comment on basic/reliable/cheap to run set ups that nevertheless deliver wide gamut excellent B&W?

cheers,

Robert


RE: [Digital BW] B&W Printer

2016-11-28 by Nigel Richards

I have the Epson 1500W in the UK,  I believe the same as the 1430, I normally use it for colour  but previously used a succession of  epson 1290s with 6K and now have  a second-hand  R2880 for monochrome.  I have tried the Epson black pigment refill for the ecotank models with some success, mixing my own ink for a 3K in the R2880 sometimes using the Epson drivers and sometimes QTR. The dye epson refill is very poor .

This is the stuff http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Epson-Original-T7741-Ecotank-140ml-Pigment-Ink-Bottle-BLACK-/401167224998 

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/computing-accessories/printers-scanners-and-ink/ink-and-toner-cartridges/printer-cartridges/epson-t7741-black-ecotank-ink-bottle-140-ml-10140067-pdt.html 

Cheers

Nigel in the UK
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: 28 November 2016 04:01
To: DigitalB&WPrint
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] B&W Printer

 

  

Is the 1500W still available in your area?  I think it's the same as the 1430 in the US.

 

There are a number of black, including dilute carbon, inksets that will do what you want.  I've used HP-PK as a starting point for such, but now use glossy carbon (warm) plus a blend of color pigments to pull it neutral.  See, for example, http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Glossy-Carbon-Variable-Tone.pdf .

 

Good luck with your search.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com 

 

On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 4:23 AM, Robert Clark robertclark@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  

I realise this question may have been asked many, many times before, and I apologise in advance, but I haven’t been able to search efficiently for an appropriate answer.

 

I am looking for a reliable printer - 13x19 would be enough, but I could go up to a 17” model. I would like to use a simple black/grey ink set-up, or even a black only set-up that I can use with an appropriate print driver, Roy Harrington's  <http://www.quadtonerip.com/> Quadtone RIP would seem to be the sort of thing. I’m not in the US, so that may limit what I can get hold of (I believe the Epson 1430 is not available outside the US anymore).

 

I’m looking for something that will not clog, looking for inks that are archival and a driver that gives me a completely neutral consistent tone. I am not interested in toning with colour or printing in colour, and would probably print on silk/pearl finish papers, perhaps on matt. Are there good black only processes nowadays that use more than one nozzle for less grainy results?

 

Could you comment on basic/reliable/cheap to run set ups that nevertheless deliver wide gamut excellent B&W?

 

cheers,

 

Robert

Re: B&W Printer

2016-11-29 by brian_downunda@...

I agree that the 1430 is an obvious choice. The 1430 is still listed on the Antipodean Epson site, so it's still available here. There are a several catches though.

Catch one is that this printer is, AFAIK, the only one where Epson has region-specific cartridges. So you will need to find refillables that are compatible with your printer. Inkjetmall carts generally do not suit non-US-non-Canadian printers.

I think the simplest solution would be the Piezography K6 neutral set. You buy the inks, use their QTR curves, it's a plug and play system. It's not the cheapest solution, but it is simple.

Catch number two is that with any of these monochrome inksets, in their natural form they're usually warm-toned. So you need to add something to cool them down. The Piezo neutral set does this as part of the formulation. Controversy rages about the impact on the archival nature of the inks. It does seem generally accepted that the carbon inks are most archival and toning additives reduce it. I guess the question is whether the impact of the toning additives is significant. Doesn't worry me all that much, but it does seem to worry some people.

Catch number three is that the 1430 only has six slots, and the basic Piezography K6 set-up is matte only. If you want to do both gloss and matte and use Piezography then you'll need a larger, more expensive printer with eight slots. I don't like to recommend these, as you start to lose the simple life. Virtually all the 13" or larger printers sold new now have ink lines and dampers rather than carts on the head, and there's a maintenance burden in keeping the pigment from sedimenting. This is less of a problem with the 1430 and is easier to fix if it happens. There's also an issue getting refillable carts for the latest Surecolor printers with chips that work.

My experience with Piezography is that it rarely clogs, although getting the refillable carts to work can sometimes be a struggle, but that's an issue for any alternative inkset. I've had best results when starting with a new printer.

I don't know enough about Paul's approach to know whether the additives he uses to cool the carbon inks to neutral reduce the archival nature of the inks, nor whether there's a dual matte & gloss solution for the 1430. His solution seems the most economical, but despite all his work to document it, it still doesn't strike me as the simplest solution. That said, there seem to be plenty of people using it.

The other option is get a P800 and use QTR with OEM inks. You can do quite acceptable prints this way. QTR uses a small amount of the colour inks to neutralise the blacks, and this will concern some people because of some reduction in the archival properties of the prints. This would be the most expensive approach, but it's simple, so long as there are QTR curves for your papers. The 3880/P800 have a reputation for being the least clogging printers that Epson ever made. But you said that a colour-based approach didn't interest you.

There are plenty of solutions, each with costs and benefits.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: B&W Printer

2016-11-29 by Paul Roark

It's definitely the case that you may need to buy the empty carts in your market to be sure they are for the printer.

If you can get empty carts for an Epson printer, the Eboni-6 or MIS Glossy carbon based inksets will work. But it's also true that MIS does not have a turnkey system for most printers. For the 1400 series I have made a fair number of profiles. For others, it's likely you'll have to do some work on the profiles. QTR profiles are fairly easy to translate from one printer to another, but being able to re-linearize is a skill you'll need. It can be done with a flatbed scanner. Roy wrote a script to automate it.

Regarding "toning" the warm carbon to neutral, I've used all sorts of approaches and prefer the single light blue toner method. That keeps the color inks separate from the carbons and avoids some separation issues. It's also the most flexible.

As to the stability of the neutral toned carbon prints, the sad reality is that all the tests I know of indicate that the OEMs have stronger color pigments than the third party sellers. So, using Aardenburg-Imagining's tests I selected what appeared to be the best OEM combination, and that was Canon Lucia blue and cyan, diluted with the generic base (http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf at page 5), or the MIS amber base for glossy for slightly less bronzing in glossy prints that are not then sprayed. (I may go back to the generic base even for the glossy toner, since I spray all serious prints, the degree of bronzing from the small amount of Canon pigments is minimal, and the generic base is considerably more likely to deliver a perfect nozzle check after 2 weeks of inactivity.)

For those who want to avoid mixing the toner, MIS made a light blue toner with its color pigments that matches the color of my Canon based toner. It'll be as lightfast as the other third party neutral inks, but the Canon based one is the one that can, according to my tests, match the silver print in lightfastness. For museum grade prints, I'd recommend the Canon based toner.

Paul
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On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 4:43 PM, brian_downunda@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I agree that the 1430 is an obvious choice. The 1430 is still listed on the Antipodean Epson site, so it's still available here. There are a several catches though.


Catch one is that this printer is, AFAIK, the only one where Epson has region-specific cartridges. So you will need to find refillables that are compatible with your printer. Inkjetmall carts generally do not suit non-US-non-Canadian printers.

I think the simplest solution would be the Piezography K6 neutral set. You buy the inks, use their QTR curves, it's a plug and play system. It's not the cheapest solution, but it is simple.

Catch number two is that with any of these monochrome inksets, in their natural form they're usually warm-toned. So you need to add something to cool them down. The Piezo neutral set does this as part of the formulation. Controversy rages about the impact on the archival nature of the inks. It does seem generally accepted that the carbon inks are most archival and toning additives reduce it. I guess the question is whether the impact of the toning additives is significant. Doesn't worry me all that much, but it does seem to worry some people.

Catch number three is that the 1430 only has six slots, and the basic Piezography K6 set-up is matte only. If you want to do both gloss and matte and use Piezography then you'll need a larger, more expensive printer with eight slots. I don't like to recommend these, as you start to lose the simple life. Virtually all the 13" or larger printers sold new now have ink lines and dampers rather than carts on the head, and there's a maintenance burden in keeping the pigment from sedimenting. This is less of a problem with the 1430 and is easier to fix if it happens. There's also an issue getting refillable carts for the latest Surecolor printers with chips that work.

My experience with Piezography is that it rarely clogs, although getting the refillable carts to work can sometimes be a struggle, but that's an issue for any alternative inkset. I've had best results when starting with a new printer.

I don't know enough about Paul's approach to know whether the additives he uses to cool the carbon inks to neutral reduce the archival nature of the inks, nor whether there's a dual matte & gloss solution for the 1430. His solution seems the most economical, but despite all his work to document it, it still doesn't strike me as the simplest solution. That said, there seem to be plenty of people using it.

The other option is get a P800 and use QTR with OEM inks. You can do quite acceptable prints this way. QTR uses a small amount of the colour inks to neutralise the blacks, and this will concern some people because of some reduction in the archival properties of the prints. This would be the most expensive approach, but it's simple, so long as there are QTR curves for your papers. The 3880/P800 have a reputation for being the least clogging printers that Epson ever made. But you said that a colour-based approach didn't interest you.

There are plenty of solutions, each with costs and benefits.


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