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Re: [Digital BW] Materials Ord ering for Paul Roark’s Glossy C arbon Variable Tone Black and White Inkset for Epson Printers

Re: [Digital BW] Materials Ord ering for Paul Roark’s Glossy C arbon Variable Tone Black and White Inkset for Epson Printers

2016-05-21 by Brubaker family

You might want to look at printerfillingstation.com to see if they carry a PK ink that goes with the Ink Specialists WJ1082, which is the MIS Eboni 1.1 MK.  The printer fillingstation.com price for the WJ1082 is WAY less than the MIS price and they have smaller sizes available.

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/21/16, homershannon@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 Subject: [Digital BW] Materials Ordering for Paul Roark’s Glossy Carbon Variable Tone Black and White Inkset for Epson Printers
 To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Saturday, May 21, 2016, 8:44 AM
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
     
       
       
       I have been looking at Paul
 Roark’s instructions for the new
 universal ink set, Glossy Carbon Variable Tone Black and
 White Inkset for Epson
 Printers, and going to MIS’ web page to order materials.
 Despite communicating
 with Paul, I am still very unclear was to what black ink is
 the correct ink to
 be ordering. Note that MIS only offers these inks only in
 $90 pints, which is way
 more than I will need, so I would like to order correctly.
 My objective is to
 build the ink set that will allow use on glossy and matte
 papers.
 Paul Roark’s instructions
 state the following:
 Ink Arrangements for
 the 1430: K = Eboni MK or 100% Photo
 Carbon (PK)All other shades are
 dilutions of the PK black ink.   MIS’ web page, in the
 Roark’s Lab section lists the
 following black inks:
 EB6 V1.1 CARBON
 MONOTONE MATTE BLK (EBONI) – K Part Number: EB6-PT-K
 (noted as for matte paper
 only)
 ULTRATONE PINT PHOTO
 BLACK
 - (POSSIBLE 24-48 HOUR LEAD TIME) - WAS K4 PK Part Number:
 UT-HEXPT-PK
 The
 naming is not consistent and MIS lists K4 PK on another
 page.It is available in a 4 oz bottle but nothing in that
 description says anything
 about this being a carbon ink. 
 I’m not going to order ink
 until I understand what I should
 be ordering. Can anyone clarify this?  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
     
      
 
     
     
 
 
 
 #yiv7681922373 #yiv7681922373 --

Re: [Digital BW] Materials Ordering for Paul Roark ’s Glossy Carbon Variable Tone Black and White Inkset for Epson Printers

2016-05-21 by Andrew Sharpe

They do. It is WJ1122. I use it on Red River Ultra Pro Satin, and Costco
Glossy, both with good results with Paul R.'s QTR BO curves.

Andrew



On 5/21/16 12:07 PM, Brubaker family brubaker_family@...
[DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>  
>
> You might want to look at printerfillingstation.com to see if they
> carry a PK ink that goes with the Ink Specialists WJ1082, which is the
> MIS Eboni 1.1 MK. The printer fillingstation.com price for the WJ1082
> is WAY less than the MIS price and they have smaller sizes available.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 5/21/16, homershannon@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]
> <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Materials Ordering for Paul Roark\u2019s Glossy
> Carbon Variable Tone Black and White Inkset for Epson Printers
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, May 21, 2016, 8:44 AM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have been looking at Paul
> Roark\u2019s instructions for the new
> universal ink set, Glossy Carbon Variable Tone Black and
> White Inkset for Epson
> Printers, and going to MIS\u2019 web page to order materials.
> Despite communicating
> with Paul, I am still very unclear was to what black ink is
> the correct ink to
> be ordering. Note that MIS only offers these inks only in
> $90 pints, which is way
> more than I will need, so I would like to order correctly.
> My objective is to
> build the ink set that will allow use on glossy and matte
> papers.
> Paul Roark\u2019s instructions
> state the following:
> Ink Arrangements for
> the 1430: K = Eboni MK or 100% Photo
> Carbon (PK)All other shades are
> dilutions of the PK black ink.  MIS\u2019 web page, in the
> Roark\u2019s Lab section lists the
> following black inks:
> EB6 V1.1 CARBON
> MONOTONE MATTE BLK (EBONI) \u2013 K Part Number: EB6-PT-K
> (noted as for matte paper
> only)
> ULTRATONE PINT PHOTO
> BLACK
> - (POSSIBLE 24-48 HOUR LEAD TIME) - WAS K4 PK Part Number:
> UT-HEXPT-PK
> The
> naming is not consistent and MIS lists K4 PK on another
> page.It is available in a 4 oz bottle but nothing in that
> description says anything
> about this being a carbon ink.
> I\u2019m not going to order ink
> until I understand what I should
> be ordering. Can anyone clarify this?  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Digital BW] Materials Ord ering for Paul Roark’s Glossy C arbon Variable Tone Black and White Inkset for Epson Printers

2016-05-23 by homershannon@...

How about the Canon pigment inks that are needed (blue and cyan). Does Printer Filling Station have these? I've been searching their web page but I think what I am looking for are the inks for the iPF series of printers and PFS does not list them. The Canon numbers are PFi-101B/0891B001AA and PFi-101C/0884B001AA. If would sure be nice to find a supplier of 2oz or 4oz bulk bottles of these.

Re: [Digital BW] Materials Ord ering for Paul Roark ’s Glossy C arbon Variable Tone Black and White Inkset for Epson Printers

2016-05-31 by Paul Roark

I'm going through old emails -- not sure if this is still a question.

I use Canon blue and cyan color pigments for the current generation of variable tone B&W inksets. I combine there with carbon that MIS sells (source - STS inks).

The Canon Lucia Blue (PFI-106B) and Cyan (PFI-106C) are the inks used in Canon’s iPF6300 printer. See for example, https://www.itsupplies.com/Canon/Canon-imagePROGRAF-iPF6300/iPF6350.

Many outlets sell the Canon inks. ITsupplies has about the best prices.

I buy the wide format carts and drain their contents into a 4 oz. empty bottle (recycled MIS inks 4 oz. size, for example. I use a clean awl to simply poke one hole at one end and another air inlet hole at the other. The ink drains out simply, but I don't store them in the OEM carts after then are once opened or used.

Obviously other color inks could be used. The best are reasonably priced given the amounts I use. So that is what I do.

Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 6:19 PM, homershannon@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

How about the Canon pigment inks that are needed (blue and cyan). Does Printer Filling Station have these? I've been searching their web page but I think what I am looking for are the inks for the iPF series of printers and PFS does not list them. The Canon numbers are PFi-101B/0891B001AA and PFi-101C/0884B001AA. If would sure be nice to find a supplier of 2oz or 4oz bulk bottles of these.


Re: [Digital BW] Materials Ord ering for Paul Roark ’s Glossy C arbon Variable Tone Black and White Inkset for Epson Printers

2016-06-01 by homershannon@...

I picked up all the necessary materials to mix up a batch of your new "universal" ink set. I'm referring to it as PR-U (Paul Roark Universal).

I got the amber base from MIS and received the shipment quickly and with out any problems. Contrary to what is seen on this forum, MIS still can ship an order completely and on time. I purchased a 4 oz bottle of WJ1122 from Printer Filling Station - buying 16 oz from MIS seemed like overkill. Four ounces of the black ink is enough to make 120ml of each tone and that's enough for twelve fills in the 1400/1430. I got the Canon toner inks from inkjetcarts.us. The total cost for all of the materials (and I still have gobs of toner) was $100 even, including shipping and a couple of spare bottles from MIS.

I haven't had time to do any serious printing with this ink set yet. After mixing up the batch I ran into the usual fresh-cart issues, including a cart that apparently is actually bad. After sorting all that out and getting a good nozzle check, I did print a test sheet using G2.2 settings. This print is overly dark and too warm for my tastes, but I can see from this test print that this ink has very deep blacks and real potential.

In fairness though, I'm just at the starting gate. I'll need to use QTR to make a custom profile for my favorite black and white paper, RR UltraPro Satin, which will take more time than I have immediately available. Surely there will be a rainy weekend sometime this month! I'll sort it out then.

Homer Shannon


Re: [Digital BW] Materials Ord ering for Paul Roark ’s Glossy C arbon Variable Tone Black and White Inkset for Epson Printers

2016-06-01 by Paul Roark

Homer,

Are you going to use QTR or the Epson driver?

One of the issues that needs real world testing is the method of achieving a very high dmax. The 100% PK hits its dmax too soon and at too low a level. We've noticed for a long time that LK inks can often hit a higher dmax than the PKs. The problem is that holding down the dry time to avoid pizza wheels argues in favor of the PK. In my 1430 glossy beta --
I use a 50% PK ink in the C position. On at least some papers, having this ink carry half of the load at the 100% black point increases the dmax significantly -- from L=8.3 for a "standard" profile to L=4.7 when the black end point is 50% C and 50% PK. This probably only works with QTR.

So, what we are doing here is taking control of the particle load that generates the dmax. It's a balance of dry time v. dmax. With the printer at its highest quality setting, the paper may well have plenty of dry time before hitting the exit rollers. I have not seen pizza wheels yet from this approach, but more experience and different papers may produce different results.

Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 4:52 AM, homershannon@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I picked up all the necessary materials to mix up a batch of your new "universal" ink set. I'm referring to it as PR-U (Paul Roark Universal).


I got the amber base from MIS and received the shipment quickly and with out any problems. Contrary to what is seen on this forum, MIS still can ship an order completely and on time. I purchased a 4 oz bottle of WJ1122 from Printer Filling Station - buying 16 oz from MIS seemed like overkill. Four ounces of the black ink is enough to make 120ml of each tone and that's enough for twelve fills in the 1400/1430. I got the Canon toner inks from inkjetcarts.us. The total cost for all of the materials (and I still have gobs of toner) was $100 even, including shipping and a couple of spare bottles from MIS.

I haven't had time to do any serious printing with this ink set yet. After mixing up the batch I ran into the usual fresh-cart issues, including a cart that apparently is actually bad. After sorting all that out and getting a good nozzle check, I did print a test sheet using G2.2 settings. This print is overly dark and too warm for my tastes, but I can see from this test print that this ink has very deep blacks and real potential.

In fairness though, I'm just at the starting gate. I'll need to use QTR to make a custom profile for my favorite black and white paper, RR UltraPro Satin, which will take more time than I have immediately available. Surely there will be a rainy weekend sometime this month! I'll sort it out then.

Homer Shannon



Re: [Digital BW] Materials Ord ering for Paul Roark ’s Glossy C arbon Variable Tone Black and White Inkset for Epson Printers

2016-06-02 by homershannon@...

Ideally, I'd use the Epson driver, but from the initial tests it looks this this won't work well. Perhaps I can get QTR to generate an ICC that will work but I'm a long way from solving that one yet.

As noted, I don't have a lot of time to work with this right now - I tend to do my printing in the winter. I'll post to the group any success I have.

Homer

Re: [Digital BW] Materials Ord ering for Paul Roark ’s Glossy C arbon Variable Tone Black and White Inkset for Epson Printers

2016-06-08 by Paul Roark

The color inks that go into MIS's UT14 make a light blue toner that is essentially the same as the Canon based toner I prefer due to its superior lightfastness. The UT14 "blue" blend diluted 30% UT blue (not sold separately) and 70% amber base is all there is to it. MIS is sending me a blend of the current inks (still the original IS pigments, we';re told) to test. Assuming they check out, MIS should have a more affordable light blue, carbon toner soon.

I have never actually fade tested the MIS blue blend v. the Canon blend. I have relied on http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/ testing, which consistently shows OEM color pigments performing better. MIS's major problem with its color set was similar to Epson's -- a weak yellow. With respect to the others, my old tests of the MIS neutralized carbon inks v. Piezo's versions showed them to be essentially equal. So, based on those tests, I'd assume an MIS light blue toner in and Eboni or glossy carbon variable tone inkset would be about the same as the Piezo B&W inks of the same shade. For most B&W printing, that has worked out fine for many people. For those who want to challenge silver print stability, stay with the Canon color pigment based toner.

Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:53 AM, homershannon@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Inkjetcarts part numbers 106 RKB-120 and 106 RKC-120. These are both 120ml bottles "OEM matched pigment refill ink". It is safe to assume this is not Canon ink but a knockoff of unknown quality, but I can't see purchasing two huge cartridges of expensive Canon ink just to trial this formula.


Re: [Digital BW] Materials Ord ering for Paul Roark ’s Glossy C arbon Variable Tone Black and White Inkset for Epson Printers

2016-06-14 by Paul Roark

The weak yellow is not used in the B&W toning. As such, tests of MIS color inks that rate it badly are mostly measuring the yellow fade. For B&W, it's usually the magenta that fades faster than the cyan, thus the green shift. In that regard, the MIS color inks as toners are not as weak as the color inkset tests suggest. In my tests, they were about the same as the Piezo B&W set. The OEM M and C are stronger, but the difference is not as much as the tests of just the color inksets would suggest.

I short, do to Y not being used in the toner, an MIS based color toner is not going to be a bad ink. It won't match a silver print, but it will last a reasonable time in normal home display.

Hope this helps.

Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 3:40 PM, paulmwhiting@yahoo.com [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Paul,

I look forward to your next phase in this research! Sounds great.

But help me with this, from one of your earlier messages earlier in this thread:: "MIS's major problem with its color set was similar to Epson's -- a weak yellow."

How does that figure in our concerns, ie b/w? Something here I'm not getting, sorry!

Paul W.


Re: [Digital BW] Materials Ord ering for Paul Roark ’s Glossy C arbon Variable Tone Black and White Inkset for Epson Printers

2016-06-15 by paulmwhiting@...

It does help, Paul, thanks. But I hate to give up that archival quality we've all come to appreciate!

Best,

Paul W.


---In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <roark.paul@...> wrote :

The weak yellow is not used in the B&W toning. As such, tests of MIS color inks that rate it badly are mostly measuring the yellow fade. For B&W, it's usually the magenta that fades faster than the cyan, thus the green shift. In that regard, the MIS color inks as toners are not as weak as the color inkset tests suggest. In my tests, they were about the same as the Piezo B&W set. The OEM M and C are stronger, but the difference is not as much as the tests of just the color inksets would suggest.

I short, due to Y not being used in the toner, an MIS based color toner is not going to be a bad ink. It won't match a silver print, but it will last a reasonable time in normal home display.

Hope this helps.

Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 3:40 PM, paulmwhiting@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Paul,

I look forward to your next phase in this research! Sounds great.

But help me with this, from one of your earlier messages earlier in this thread:: "MIS's major problem with its color set was similar to Epson's -- a weak yellow."

How does that figure in our concerns, ie b/w? Something here I'm not getting, sorry!

Paul W.


Re: [Digital BW] Materials Ord ering for Paul Roark ’s Glossy C arbon Variable Tone Black and White Inkset for Epson Printers

2016-06-15 by Paul Roark

100% carbon is still very possible and can be near neutral. Paper and profile selections are key to this.

The toner based on the Canon pigments give you silver print stability for a neutral print. That's not bad.

Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 10:40 AM, paulmwhiting@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

It does help, Paul, thanks. But I hate to give up that archival quality we've all come to appreciate!

Best,

Paul W.



---In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

The weak yellow is not used in the B&W toning. As such, tests of MIS color inks that rate it badly are mostly measuring the yellow fade. For B&W, it's usually the magenta that fades faster than the cyan, thus the green shift. In that regard, the MIS color inks as toners are not as weak as the color inkset tests suggest. In my tests, they were about the same as the Piezo B&W set. The OEM M and C are stronger, but the difference is not as much as the tests of just the color inksets would suggest.

I short, due to Y not being used in the toner, an MIS based color toner is not going to be a bad ink. It won't match a silver print, but it will last a reasonable time in normal home display.

Hope this helps.

Paul

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 3:40 PM, paulmwhiting@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Paul,

I look forward to your next phase in this research! Sounds great.

But help me with this, from one of your earlier messages earlier in this thread:: "MIS's major problem with its color set was similar to Epson's -- a weak yellow."

How does that figure in our concerns, ie b/w? Something here I'm not getting, sorry!

Paul W.



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