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Glossy Carbon Variable Tone inkset components

Glossy Carbon Variable Tone inkset components

2016-03-31 by Paul Roark

​The first printer I set up with this inkset was my Epson Workforce 1100. I doubt many will want to use this inkset in that printer (no QTR and not in production any more), but it makes a convenient test bed. It worked.

The 3880 toner ratios used for the 3880 Eboni Variable tone inkset (http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/3880-Eboni-Variable-Tone.pdf) worked perfectly for the glossy carbon. The only difference is that MIS amber base must be used for dilution as opposed to the generic base, which is not glossy paper compatible. The results that were important were, first, that the same 55% Canon Blue, 45% Canon Cyan ratio worked for the glossy carbon. The Lab A essentially stayed at the paper white level across the tonal scale. Second, the 75% amber base dilution was still sufficiently strong to achieve a neutral print tone all the way to 95% black. So, it looks like we have a universal light blue toner for carbon.

The carbon is MIS's Photo Black Carbon. This is a European sourced grind and proprietary to MIS, I believe. It's been in their inks and I've been using it for 5 years. It and the amber base are well tested products.

At least for testing, I'm staying with my usual 30% (LK) and 9% (LLK) dilutions, but with the components being separately available, it's very open and flexible.

I'll load my 1400 today with the mix and let you know how it works. With QTR and one position of Eboni MK in the printer I'll be able to better assess the inkset's potential.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: Glossy Carbon Variable Tone inkset components

2016-04-01 by homershannon@...

Paul:

Do I have the correct MIS part numbers for the components of your universal ink set:

Amber Base - ESC-BASE-(size)-UC

Photo Carbon Black - UTBO-(size)-K

What Canon printer should I reference when ordering the Canon blue and cyan toners? Are these also diluted using the amber base?

The 4900 is not fully operational yet, but I think I'm gaining. I will probably want to order supplies shortly.

Homer Shannon

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy Carbon Variable Tone inkset components

2016-04-01 by Paul Roark

Hi Homer,

It's a little early to know all the variables, but the MIS Amber base should be the same as is on their web site. One place where they will probably list the components is at https://www.inksupply.com/roarkslab.cfm . The PK options are still named with the older "MIS Pro" and "K4" PK. I believe they are actually the same now, and what I'm initially testing and diluting. (Stay above the color pigment listed on that page. I am not currently using any MIS color pigments.)

In http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-6K-Plus.pdf you'll see that I used various inks from other MIS inksets. Ignoring the super-dilute LLLK for now, the other glossy dilute inks translate into 50%, 30%, 15%, and 9% PK. Those make nice, useful dilutions. I doubt anyone needs an ink that is more dilute than 9% PK, but some would argue otherwise. These straight percentage labels may end up on the various dilutions on the MIS webpage.

For the 1400, I'm leaning toward the 4 percentages noted above, along with the toner, with the K having to be switched from Eboni to PK as needed.

Note that the MIS PK will get a somewhat modest dmax of about 2 with either the Epson driver or QTR. On the other hand the 50% PK will hit 2.45 with QTR. The trick for those with QTR will be to find the blend that gives the best overall look, including absence of pizza wheel marks. The more fluid on the paper, the more various problems might arise.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 7:25 AM, homershannon@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Paul:


Do I have the correct MIS part numbers for the components of your universal ink set:

Amber Base - ESC-BASE-(size)-UC

Photo Carbon Black - UTBO-(size)-K

What Canon printer should I reference when ordering the Canon blue and cyan toners? Are these also diluted using the amber base?

The 4900 is not fully operational yet, but I think I'm gaining. I will probably want to order supplies shortly.

Homer Shannon


Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy Carbon Variable Tone inkset components

2016-04-02 by homershannon@...

The amber base is listed clearly - no doubt on that. There is no formula listed though. With the 4900 and its 350ml tanks, it would make sense to make my own base though perhaps not for initial experimentation.

The black is rather confusing. They list:
MISPRO PHOTO BLACK ARCHIVAL ULTRACHROME COMPATIBLE INK - 480ML (16.2OZ) BOTTLE for $58.00 and list K4 PHOTO BLACK ARCHIVAL EPSON K3 COMPATIBLE INK - 480ML (16.2OZ) BOTTLE also for $58.00.If I understand right, these are the same inks.
The materials are expensive enough that I want to be sure I am getting the right items.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy Carbon Variable Tone inkset components

2016-04-02 by Paul Roark

Those are the products.

I am not going to try to clone the amber base. When messing around with binders, I can see a lot of opportunity for messing up printers with clogs, etc.

The prices just have to be compared to the alternatives. It's still a good deal.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 8:39 PM, homershannon@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

The amber base is listed clearly - no doubt on that. There is no formula listed though. With the 4900 and its 350ml tanks, it would make sense to make my own base though perhaps not for initial experimentation.


The black is rather confusing. They list:
MISPRO PHOTO BLACK ARCHIVAL ULTRACHROME COMPATIBLE INK - 480ML (16.2OZ) BOTTLE for $58.00 and list K4 PHOTO BLACK ARCHIVAL EPSON K3 COMPATIBLE INK - 480ML (16.2OZ) BOTTLE also for $58.00.If I understand right, these are the same inks.
The materials are expensive enough that I want to be sure I am getting the right items.


Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy Carbon Variable Tone inkset components

2016-04-07 by Paul Roark

I've been through a number variations on this project. I think I';ve seen enough that I'm scaling up to my 7800 with what I'm calling "Glossy Carbon Variable Tone beta 1." See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Glossy-Carbon-Variable-Tone.pdf The 7800 and 1430 will have the same inks in them, but the 7800 will not be Epson driver compatible. I will make ICCs and other profiles for the 1430.

Basically, I'm opting to stay with the same carbon and dilution base inputs I used for all the glossy compatible inksets I've made. These components are well tested with years of experience, and they continue to give me what I look for in a B&W inkset. The fact that I am going with this combination for serious wide format production suggests the confidence I have in these inputs and this approach.

Eboni Variable Tone will remain in my 9800, and, again, I expect Eboni to retain the "best for the least" title in terms of price and lightfastness.

That said, a universal carbon variable tone that, at worst, matches silver print lightfastness is good enough for me for glossy work, and, frankly, very convenient for an overall B&W insket.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

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On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Paul Roark <roark.paul@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Homer,

It's a little early to know all the variables, but the MIS Amber base should be the same as is on their web site. One place where they will probably list the components is at https://www.inksupply.com/roarkslab.cfm . The PK options are still named with the older "MIS Pro" and "K4" PK. I believe they are actually the same now, and what I'm initially testing and diluting. (Stay above the color pigment listed on that page. I am not currently using any MIS color pigments.)

In http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-6K-Plus.pdf you'll see that I used various inks from other MIS inksets. Ignoring the super-dilute LLLK for now, the other glossy dilute inks translate into 50%, 30%, 15%, and 9% PK. Those make nice, useful dilutions. I doubt anyone needs an ink that is more dilute than 9% PK, but some would argue otherwise. These straight percentage labels may end up on the various dilutions on the MIS webpage.

For the 1400, I'm leaning toward the 4 percentages noted above, along with the toner, with the K having to be switched from Eboni to PK as needed.

Note that the MIS PK will get a somewhat modest dmax of about 2 with either the Epson driver or QTR. On the other hand the 50% PK will hit 2.45 with QTR. The trick for those with QTR will be to find the blend that gives the best overall look, including absence of pizza wheel marks. The more fluid on the paper, the more various problems might arise.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 7:25 AM, homershannon@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Paul:


Do I have the correct MIS part numbers for the components of your universal ink set:

Amber Base - ESC-BASE-(size)-UC

Photo Carbon Black - UTBO-(size)-K

What Canon printer should I reference when ordering the Canon blue and cyan toners? Are these also diluted using the amber base?

The 4900 is not fully operational yet, but I think I'm gaining. I will probably want to order supplies shortly.

Homer Shannon



Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy Carbon Variable Tone inkset components

2016-04-08 by Paul Roark

The K position in the 1430 will be either MK or PK. The 50% PK (which MIS wants to call Photo Carbon to stress that fact that it is 100% carbon) is in the C position.

Note that 50% PK is essentially the same density as the older, pre-glossy quad position C was. In Eboni-6 that is the 30% Eboni. The 18% Eboni is approximately the density of the more modern LK, which is essentially 30% PK.

I tried several different dilution approaches in alpha inksets, and this one worked the best, particularly for the Epson driver compatibility issues, which are more of a challenge than QTR.

I just uploaded a newer version of the draft "beta1" PDF which has a link to the Profiles Zip. Making sure I can hit the warm to cool range on the inks with PS curves is part of the challenge. I think this setup can do it.

I will probably adopt these same basic inks for the 7800. In that setup, given my printing needs, I'll have 2 MKs (only there/useful for Arches watercolor paper) plus a PK. So, when you add a toner to the set, that leaves 4 dilute glossy carbons. People with more positions might want to add more dilute inks.

I would still caution that this is a beta inkset, and I have not heard from MIS as to whether they'll be commercializing it. I communicate with them and listen, but, as with my decision to not go with their proprietary carbon (but with one they can easily buy from their traditional supplier), my decisions are not necessarily what they'd prefer. (I don't have an inksupply.com URL for the PK or "photo carbon" I'm using, for example, and don't know if they'll even be carrying it.) My need for a carbon inkset that is both matte and glossy compatible is what is driving this project. Practicality and using the best, proven materials and approaches, including ink densities make putting together an inkset way less of an ordeal than having to start from scratch. Those who have followed my zig-zag journey of inksets will observe that this is really an updated UT1, which started life as "Variable Piezo" (until Jon essentially kicked me off his forum).

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 6:54 AM, viafasin7@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Paul,
Not sure if you were asked this question before, but I'm curious: why are you using a 50% dilution as the darkest PK? Why not go for the full 100%?

Walter


Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy Carbon Variable Tone inkset components

2016-04-08 by homershannon@...

Paul:

Is the "photo carbon" you list in the pdf, "Glossy Carbon Variable Tone Black and White Inkset for Epson Printers" MIS' product ESCR1900, R1900 PINT BOTTLE PHOTO BLACK INK - Inksupply.com
R1900 PINT BOTTLE PHOTO BLACK INK - Inksupply.com
R1900 PINT BOTTLE PHOTO BLACK INK Your Price: $58.00 I Ship Free to the Contiguous US! Product Details - Part Number: ESCR1900-PT-PK Product Ty...
View on www.inksupply.com
Preview by Yahoo

?

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy Carbon Variable Tone inkset components

2016-04-08 by Paul Roark

I'll try to get clarification regarding which PKs are from what source. Right now, I can't say.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 2:01 PM, homershannon@gmail.com [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Paul:


Is the "photo carbon" you list in the pdf, "Glossy Carbon Variable Tone Black and White Inkset for Epson Printers" MIS' product ESCR1900, R1900 PINT BOTTLE PHOTO BLACK INK - Inksupply.com
R1900 PINT BOTTLE PHOTO BLACK INK - Inksupply.com
R1900 PINT BOTTLE PHOTO BLACK INK Your Price: $58.00 I Ship Free to the Contiguous US! Product Details - Part Number: ESCR1900-PT-PK Product Ty...
Preview by Yahoo

?


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