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Create RGB ICC Issues

Create RGB ICC Issues

2014-03-12 by <homershannon@...>

I have developed some curves that allow me to use the UT14 ink set with gloss and satin papers. The curves work well enough but I would like to run them through the QTR Create RGB ICC tool and simplify the process of using the curve by embedding them in an ICC.

I followed the instructions in Paul Roark's document http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Embedding_Photoshop_Curves_in_ICCs.pdf carefully. But, the ICCs I get consistently print images that are too dark and the coloration is not right. The link http://1drv.ms/1fUtOs1 will take you to a scan of ramps I have printed. The next to last on the bottom is the ramp from a curve that I want to embed. The last ramp is the print using the .ICC created with the curve and the LAB values for the ramp above. (Note that the ramps does not show LAB values, but I remeasured it again and used LAB for the create ICC tool.)

What am I missing that causes the resulting ICCs to be so far off their mark?

Re: [Digital BW] Create RGB ICC Issues

2014-03-13 by Paul Roark

I have not used that approach lately, but just testing it this evening, with CS5 the approach seems to work where the file that the curve is put on is Adobe RGB (1998) and the printing profile in the driver is the same -- thus no changes are made in the file as it goes through the printer pipeline (I think).

Unfortunately, PS CC does not show Adobe RGB(1998) as an available printing profile in the 1400 printer driver. I'm not sure there is a way around that problem. Oddly enough, if the file that the curve is applied to is converted to sRGB in PS CC before the curve is applied, and the printer driver profile is Epson-sRGB, the ICC ends up printing a straight line Lab L.

This approach may be a victim of the color management changes the various players are instituting.

I generally print with QTR for all serious work. The control is so much better.

Paul
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On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 4:28 PM, <homershannon@...> wrote:

I have developed some curves that allow me to use the UT14 ink set with gloss and satin papers. The curves work well enough but I would like to run them through the QTR Create RGB ICC tool and simplify the process of using the curve by embedding them in an ICC.


I followed the instructions in Paul Roark's document http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Embedding_Photoshop_Curves_in_ICCs.pdf carefully. But, the ICCs I get consistently print images that are too dark and the coloration is not right. The link http://1drv.ms/1fUtOs1 will take you to a scan of ramps I have printed. The next to last on the bottom is the ramp from a curve that I want to embed. The last ramp is the print using the .ICC created with the curve and the LAB values for the ramp above. (Note that the ramps does not show LAB values, but I remeasured it again and used LAB for the create ICC tool.)

What am I missing that causes the resulting ICCs to be so far off their mark?


RE: [Digital BW] Create RGB ICC Issues

2014-03-13 by Mike Kirwan

Adobe (Chris Cox) went to great pains to out logic into Photoshop CS6 and later versions not to display or use ICC profiles that were not printer specific. Their thinking here was to eliminate user confusion. I did have quite a few email exchanges with Chris on this subject. There were a number of folks that had ABW grey scale profiles and they had the ability taken away to be able to print via Photoshop.

 

My solution(s) to apart from printing via QTR was to print via  QIMAGE which allows you to choose the profile of your heart’s desire.. Windows only – but the QIMAGE folks quote that it will run on MAC using Parallels and Fusion

 

MK
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Roark
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:00 PM
To: DigitalB&WPrint
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Create RGB ICC Issues

 

  

I have not used that approach lately, but just testing it this evening, with CS5 the approach seems to work where the file that the curve is put on is Adobe RGB (1998) and the printing profile in the driver is the same -- thus no changes are made in the file as it goes through the printer pipeline (I think).

 

Unfortunately, PS CC does not show Adobe RGB(1998) as an available printing profile in the 1400 printer driver.  I'm not sure there is a way around that problem.  Oddly enough, if the file that the curve is applied to is converted to sRGB in PS CC before the curve is applied, and the printer driver profile is Epson-sRGB, the ICC ends up printing a straight line Lab L. 

 

This approach may be a victim of the color management changes the various players are instituting. 

 

I generally print with QTR for all serious work.  The control is so much better.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com 

 

On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 4:28 PM, <homershannon@gmail.com> wrote:

  

I have developed some curves that allow me to use the UT14 ink set with gloss and satin papers. The curves work well enough but I would like to run them through the QTR Create RGB ICC tool and simplify the process of using the curve by embedding them in an ICC. 

 

I followed the instructions in Paul Roark's document http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Embedding_Photoshop_Curves_in_ICCs.pdf carefully. But, the ICCs I get consistently print images that are too dark and the coloration is not right. The link http://1drv.ms/1fUtOs1 will take you to a scan of ramps I have printed. The next to last on the bottom is the ramp from a curve that I want to embed. The last ramp is the print using the .ICC created with the curve and the LAB values for the ramp above. (Note that the ramps does not show LAB values, but I remeasured it again and used LAB for the create ICC tool.)

 

What am I missing that causes the resulting ICCs to be so far off their mark?

RE: [Digital BW] Create RGB ICC Issues

2014-03-14 by <homershannon@...>

Thank you Paul and Mike. I don't know that this is a CS/PS revision issue. I had tried it before with CS4 and it did not work well then either.

I had hoped to be able to create an ICC, which would simplify printing and even allow printing out of LightRoom, but I think that is going to remain a fantasy. In any event, I have the curves and they are easily applied in Photoshop. The results on Red River UtraPro Satin, Arctic Polar Gloss and Polar Pearl Metallic are excellent.

If anyone is using the UT14 ink set and would like to try these on the Red River, or other glossy papers - I think they may work on any of them - let me know. I can post the .acv files where they can be downloaded.

Homer Shannon


RE: [Digital BW] Create RGB ICC Issues

2014-03-21 by <roy@...>

I'm not a regular windows user but some of these same issues have been a problem on the Mac for a long time.
Adobe removed the No Color Management from Photoshop quite a while ago. For color printing they created a special program called Adobe Color Print Utility for printing RGB targets. See:
For custom color ICC profiling this works just fine. It also allows the special Create-ICC-RGB workflow with built-in .acv curves that Paul has a writeup about -- mainly because this uses the ordinary Epson color printing driver.

Unfortunately the ICC profiling of the Epson ABW workflow is still not possible because you can't access ABW mode in the Print Utility or in Printshop Manages Color. Qimage is probably a good alternative.

If you are an a Mac I wrote a completely new print program called Print-Tool that allows all the Color Management options that used to be available. It's also much more flexible for laying out multiple images.
(Sorry not on Windows)

Roy

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