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Solutions for smaller prints?

Solutions for smaller prints?

2014-02-16 by Sanders McNew

Forgive another elementary question:  

What are the better options for making smaller B+W prints, no larger than 8.5 x 11 inches, and more likely from 3x3 to 5x5 inches?  Is there a reliable small-carriage printer that does the job?  Any that makes decent prints from OEM inksets?  I remember when I was active on the list 10 years ago that there was an inexpensive Epson printer that Paul Roark (I think) had fitted with a B+W inkset, that did good work, but the printer itself was rather dodgy.  

My wife (also a photographer) shoots in color and B+W, so I might not have the ability to use a B+W inkset for the printer.  Or maybe we could get a big machine and run it with OEM inks, and I could get a small printer and dedicate it to B+W printing.

It seems like a waste to spend a thousand bucks on a big printer from Epson or Canon when we're rarely going to be printing larger sizes.  

Thoughts?

Re: [Digital BW] Solutions for smaller prints?

2014-02-16 by Kip Babington

I’ve been using the Epson C88 printers for many years - actually started with a C84, when the printer with ink from Epson was cheaper than a set of ink from Epson. They’re now up a bit over $100, but I still use ‘em with the MIS EZ ink set of 1 black (you have to pick matte or glossy) and three LKs which are all the same and work on both surfaces. The LK ink comes in neutral and warm, and you can vary the place on the neutral-warm continuum by which one you put in each of the color positions and by which paper you select.

I think they put out nice prints, but I use mine heavily in November and December (500-1000 8x10 prints) and rarely throughout the rest of the year, and so have fairly regular challenges with clogged heads. When they are running during my year end production they are usually clog free. But since I have a deadline for my printing (I make picture books for about a dozen family members as Christmas gifts) I have two of the C88s set up with the EZ inks, and a third one running OEM color inks for the occasional color print, but ready to take the EZ inks immediately should one of the B&W printers crap out.

I have not found them to be long-term durable in my usage. I don’t usually get more than about 1000 prints out of one before it gets an unbreakable clog. At their current price it works out to about 10 cents per print for the printer hardware, which I find acceptable for my purposes. Perhaps they would run longer if I ran them more consistently. But they are cheap enough to allow me to have a backup and a spare, something I could not do with larger printers from either a cost or space standpoint.

Mine will feed 4x6 reliably, but I don’t know about anything smaller. I send 5x7 Christmas cards, but print 2 on a letter size page and trim ‘em out. (If you are on a PC I cannot recommend QImage strongly enough as a way to place one or more images precisely on a single sheet - I can’t find anything for the Mac that can match its capabilities, which is why I run these printers from an old XP laptop.) My experience is that they do not always print perfectly square on a page. This is noticeable in my Christmas prints which are done with a 1/4 inch margin, where I can see that the margin is not exactly the same width for the full length of the long side. (Family members never seem to notice, and my wife just tells me not to look, but it still bugs me. I do make a set of prints each year that have 1 inch borders, and you can’t see the problem there. And different printers have different amounts of skew in their output. It’s what you get with a product that’s built to a price.

You can still buy the C88 from Epson on its Closeout page, but I understand they do not have drivers for it for Win 7 or 8 and don’t plan to offer any. I haven’t tried the printers on my Mac, but gather there is a similar driver problem.

If I win the lottery I’ll buy a bigger house, put in a bigger “darkroom” for my printers, get one of the big Epson or Canon printers with a lot of black/gray inks as well as color, and just the pay the thousands of dollars a gallon for OEM inks. Until then, I’ll put up with the quirks of the C88s as long as I can get them and the EZ inks.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Kip

On Feb 16, 2014, at 9:33, Sanders McNew <sanders@...> wrote:

Forgive another elementary question:

What are the better options for making smaller B+W prints, no larger than 8.5 x 11 inches, and more likely from 3x3 to 5x5 inches? Is there a reliable small-carriage printer that does the job? Any that makes decent prints from OEM inksets? I remember when I was active on the list 10 years ago that there was an inexpensive Epson printer that Paul Roark (I think) had fitted with a B+W inkset, that did good work, but the printer itself was rather dodgy.

My wife (also a photographer) shoots in color and B+W, so I might not have the ability to use a B+W inkset for the printer. Or maybe we could get a big machine and run it with OEM inks, and I could get a small printer and dedicate it to B+W printing.

It seems like a waste to spend a thousand bucks on a big printer from Epson or Canon when we're rarely going to be printing larger sizes.

Thoughts?


Re: [Digital BW] Solutions for smaller prints?

2014-02-16 by David Kachel

There are many reasonably priced options for printing black and white. Best
to check out posts at:
 Yahoo group DigitalBlackandWhitethePrint.

Yeah, the best way is to work backwards. Go to inksupply.com and Paul's web
site and learn what printers have refillable cartridges available for them
and what characteristics those printers have.
(It actually takes a very long time for refillable cartridges to become
available for a new printer model.)
Once you know what printers can be made to use aftermarket B&W inks sets and
what their characteristics are, you are in a better position to choose.
Also, learn about QTR (Quadtone RIP) which can be used to make existing
color printers such as the Epson 3880 or 2880 behave like dedicated B&W
printers, giving you a very viable two-in-one option. My recommendation
would be one of the two printers I just mentioned. I don't have and have not
used the 2880, but can vouch for the near bullet proof 3880.
A superb additional option is the Epson 1440 which you can load with a plug
and play dedicated B&W ink set from inksupply.com. This printer has a
smaller picoliter feature that gives you even more finely detailed prints.

Good luck.


David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787

Re: [Digital BW] Solutions for smaller prints?

2014-02-16 by Paul Roark

I have not done much work with the C88 recently, but the concept of the EZ printing approach is one that I'm using at this very moment.

My Epson "Workforce" 1100 with an EZ-type setup is my main office printer. With 2 black ink carts it is very fast with text printing, which I do a lot of. Being my main office printer, it is used enough such that it does not clog with any inks I've used -- which includes quite a variety.

I profiled an "EZ" inkset for it at one time using MIS (as well as other) inks -- see, e.g., http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1100.pdf

At the moment I'm printing with HP gray on metallic paper, using MIS PK for the black.

The 1100 is similar to lots of Epson printers that serve the business and home environments with the 3-color plus K or two K positions. In my experience they can be quite easily profiled with QTR's Create ICC-RGB. For testing the HP gray + MIS PK printing I made an Epson driver compatible ICC in probably less than 15 minutes this morning.

So, the 1100 or that type of printer is my standard for office, testing, and backup printer for all the inks I usually use. The only thing I can't do well on this format printer is Arches watercolor paper.

I don't know what the current letter-size version is, and those going this route might need to be able to read a 21-step test strip and linearize their own setups. On the other hand, the prints made with the EZ approach and the Epson driver's built-in controls might just find that with no custom profile at all, the prints are not that far off from the monitors.


Paul

Re: [Digital BW] Solutions for smaller prints?

2014-02-26 by <hrblaine@...>

"I don't have and have not used the 2880, but can vouch for the near bullet proof 3880."

I have printed a lot of B/W on my 3800 with Claria ink. No problems and while I'm not a pro, I do know what I like and those prints look pretty darn good to me!

Re: [Digital BW] Solutions for smaller prints?

2014-02-26 by hrblaine@...

In a message dated 2/26/2014 2:20:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
hrblaine@... writes:

I have printed a lot of B/W on my 3800 with Claria ink.  No problems  and 
while I'm not a pro, I do know what I like and those prints look pretty  darn 
good to me!



My favorite is one I call, "Stopping By Woods on a Snowy Evening", taken in 
 VA after a big snow of a few years ago.  Lots of snow on branches  and 
black trunks.  I'm looking at it as I type this, it's one of my best  shots.  
If you want to see some of my color work, go to _www.harryblaine.com_ 
(http://www.harryblaine.com) .  Thanks,  Harry

Re: [Digital BW] Solutions for smaller prints?

2014-02-26 by Paul Roark



On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 11:20 AM, <hrblaine@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
...

I have printed a lot of B/W on my 3800 with Claria ink. ...


How are you printing Claria (the Epson dyes) in a 17" wide format Epson 3800? Are you sure you have the ink and printer names correct?

Paul

Re: [Digital BW] Solutions for smaller prints?

2014-02-26 by Elliot Puritz

I use the 2880 and find the ability to change ink carts quickly to be an
advantage.  I use both K3 Epson and the Cone inks in a variety of sets and
split sets.  Once the carts are filled with the Cone inks it is a relatively
simple matter to remove the K3 carts, clean the capping station, run a quick
flush, insert the Cone inks, run a nozzle check and print.  It is faster to
switch the black and white ink sets without the need for quite as much
"cleaning". 

 

My printing volume is not exceptionally high, but so far the 2880 has
behaved well.

 

Another interesting option might well be to have the 1400 for Paul's carbon
inks and the 2880 for everything else..or two 2880s, one for black and white
and one for color.

 

It is very interesting to know of the reliability of the 1400.

 

Obviously no printer will be "perfect".  Having no current need to print
very large images means that the 2880 fulfills the need.

 

Elliot

Re: [Digital BW] Solutions for smaller prints?

2014-02-26 by Leslie Tihor

Harry, I also have a 3800 and I would like to try Claria ink for its brilliancy and relatively good resistance to fading. I have tried Cone's InkThrift inks, but they tend to fade early and the blacks have a definite blue cast.

Pls can you give more details on how you used Claria inks in your 3800. Thanks.

Les

Re: [Digital BW] Solutions for smaller prints?

2014-02-26 by hrblaine@...

In a message dated 2/26/2014 3:21:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
roark.paul@... writes:

How are you printing Claria (the Epson dyes) in a 17" wide format Epson  
3800?  Are you sure you have the ink and printer names  correct?



Well, I know it's a 3800, I guess I assumed it was Claria in it.  I  just 
moved from VA to MI and it's still packed away somewhere so I can't check  
it.  Is it Ultrachrome?

Re: [Digital BW] Solutions for smaller prints?

2014-02-26 by hrblaine@...

In a message dated 2/26/2014 4:29:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, lestihor@... writes:
Pls can you give more details on how you used Claria inks in your 3800.
I think I screwed up, see my new post on B/W NG.

Re: [Digital BW] Solutions for smaller prints?

2014-02-26 by Paul Roark

I assume you're using the standard UltraChrome in your 3800. Claria is a dye ink used in smaller printers.

Using Claria in wider format is, however, very interesting.

Improving the B&W dye approach is high on my To Do list.

Paul
...
How are you printing Claria (the Epson dyes) in a 17" wide format Epson 3800? Are you sure you have the ink and printer names correct?
Well, I know it's a 3800, I guess I assumed it was Claria in it. I just moved from VA to MI and it's still packed away somewhere so I can't check it. Is it Ultrachrome?


Re: [Digital BW] Solutions for smaller prints?

2014-02-26 by David Kachel

From:  Paul Roark <roark.paul@...>

Using Claria in wider format is, however, very interesting.

Paul,
Are we going to need another intervention?


David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787

Re: [Digital BW] Solutions for smaller prints?

2014-02-26 by Paul Roark

David Kachel <david@...> wrote:

...
Are we going to need another intervention?


Probably.

High gloss pigs don't quite cut it for me. I'm going to try to solve the problems of pigment artifacts with whatever combination works, and right now it's looking like dyes play a major part in that effort. I like pictures that fly off the walls.

But don't worry, the 7800 with Eb6 + HP is printing as I type.

Paul

Re: [Digital BW] Solutions for smaller prints?

2014-02-27 by David Kachel

High gloss pigs don't quite cut it for me.  I'm going to try to solve the
problems of pigment artifacts with whatever combination works, and right now
it's looking like dyes play a major part in that effort.  I like pictures
that fly off the walls.

I understand. I was an Ansel Adams clone for years. Had to be glossy, had to
be selenium. Then I realized that I had always subconsciously preferred dead
matte and that heavy brown was far more appealing to me. I know I will be
excommunicated for it, but what can I do.

David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787

Re: [Digital BW] Solutions for smaller prints?

2014-02-27 by Paul Roark


... I realized that I had always subconsciously preferred dead matte and

I think matte wins when under glass/acrylic. For less labor intensive and expensive un-glazed, un-matted prints, I go for the glossy dry mounted.

that heavy brown was far more appealing to me.

It's the yellow snow that gets to me.

Paul

Re: [Digital BW] Solutions for smaller prints?

2014-02-27 by David Kachel

It's the yellow snow that gets to me.

Yum! Lemony!!

David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787

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